Post: #26

(09-25-2013 01:40 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 09:01 PM)BlurredSevens Wrote:  Best case:
You: “Hey what you up to later, we should chill.” 
Her: “Sure. I’m free after 8”
You: “Want to come by my place for a drink at 9, I’ve got some new recipes” (You're baiting and switching here but done well)
Her: “Okay”
You: “Text me when you’re heading out and I can give you directions”
Her: “Will do”

I like the idea of offering a partially deniable fuck option. If you think about it, you're offering her a better alternative to masturbation -- no one knows about it, but it's real sex. And it can evolve into something way better than masturbation.

I've got a meeting set up Friday, I'm going to combine Samseau's no make-out plan with yours.

I vote +1 on the "create your own world[view] idea, but your provocative essay falls short when attacking an undefined idea of "romance."

Your good idea will be better if you break down what aspects of romance are bad for moving the relationship along.

That's some good feedback, thanks man. I didn't realize that I was pulling a bait and switch on them, I guess that the subtlety is why it's so powerful.

I hear you on the romance aspect as well, but I think that's a subject for a different discussion.

Post: #27

I've had experience with girls whom I had sensed wanted sex, even after taking them out somewhere. I was confident that I could get sex from them anytime I wanted. I think the key is to increase your sexual attraction to such a high degree that they sense this sexual confidence and like magic you got them. It's all in how you frame it.

But I got one question about zero date bangs. Is this tactic more successful than taking a girl out in day 2 to a lounge and then try to get her to your place? If so, what are your personal success rates versus the tradional way?

Post: #28

For context, how old are you and how old are these girls?

Post: #29

I think this is a high level of game for guys who know what they are doing.

I hope newbies just don't follow it. 'OMG all I have to do is just asking her to come over to my place??'

doing Minimalism right is hard in any aspects. (whether it's a fashion, delivering a speech, cooking etc)

'Keep it Simple':It sounds Simple but it's Not.

Post: #30

Alright, so after reading this thread I decided to change up my normal routine and give the zero date bang concept a try...

I have to admit, at first I was a little hesitant because this was one of the hottest girls I have dealt with in a while so I was leaning toward playing is safe. But as we all know, you shouldn't treat hot girls any differently from ugly girls.

Background... I ran into this girl twice before and had casual conversation both times and then I got her number and set up a time to hang out. Both conversations were pretty brief, light texting back and forth (mainly for logistics). So we don't have a strong rapport but I decided to go for it anyway.

So...

She texts me: "sure 9PM sounds good, what do you want to do"

Me: "Let's meet at my place for a drink to start"

(me waiting curiously to see her response)

Her: "Okay.. I usually don't drink though but sounds like fun"

Me: (Thinking: hum.. that was easy)

How it went:

I made sure to have all logistics in place as per usual (drinks, clean apartment, music, etc...)

So she arrived and we started with drinks, playing music, chillen, talking, hanging out as two friends normally would.

After a couple drinks I tried to move closer to get more intimate but I could read that her body language was kind of closed off.

I said fuck it and went for it. Grabber her drink, put it on the table, and went for the kiss...

She got very into it and I could feel her flipping back and forth between being sexually aroused, wanting to let go of her inhibitions and her logical side.

She eventually explained she broke up with her boyfriend of a year 2 weeks ago and has no friends in the city now (since she moved here for him) and so she isn't really in a mental state to hook up right now.

She explained she was looking for a friend to hangout with, go to the gym with etc... She really wants to keep hanging out but I let her know that I am not going to change how I behave around her but I am happy to hang out again some other time.

Lessons learned:

* Don't hide your true desires to fit a girl's agenda (happy I didn't)

* The zero date bang model allowed me to screen out that this girl was not DTF very quickly. So quickly that I could salvage the night and go to a club.

* You need to have all logistics in place for the zero date bang

* You need to have a strong frame when doing this and be very good at making girls feel comfortable in a place they have never been before

Anyway, thanks OP. You saved me a lot of time and this method is going to be my go to first option from now on.

Cheers!

Post: #31

(09-25-2013 11:18 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  20+ no's, 15 yes's, 11 bangs...that's an awesome conversion rate! I remember Paul Janka, who uses the Zero Date Bang model as well, said his conversion rate is roughly 11%.

What are you doing on the front end that's making so many of these girls comfortable enough to come over to your place?

Yeah I saw the same thing when I read his manual. This type of game works very well in larger cities.

It's an effective technique and cuts out the $$$ involved for grabbing drinks. I personally have become more of an extroverted shut in where people come to me and not the other way around.

Post: #32

I don't drink so quite a many times I've had girls come over for a little bite, movie etc. No hidden agenda or trying to bang her.. Simple and clear intentions and attraction with smooth leading flow of action.

Post: #33

I like this method, and it would be great for where I live.

Question to the OP about demographics: were there any specific venues where you met girls that tended to have a higher conversion rate, or was it just random day game all over the place?

Post: #34

I am curious, were most of these bangs on a weeknight?(I am guessing almost all of them?)

Post: #35

This can somewhat be related to "home dinner game" and "pre-drinks at home" game... From my experience it works better when she is 100% motivated and comfortable with you last time you met. However I think some bangs I got from regular dating (dinner and/or drink at bar) would not have worked out if I had invited her over straight away.

Post: #36

(09-28-2013 10:26 AM)frenchie Wrote:  It's an effective technique and cuts out the $$$ involved for grabbing drinks. I personally have become more of an extroverted shut in where people come to me and not the other way around.

Keep in mind though it's not a $ thing for me. When these girls come over, I'm dressed fresh and I can guarantee my pad is one of the dopest spots they've been to in the city. So I'm sure that helps, but they don't know that before getting there, so who knows.

(10-17-2013 08:47 AM)Libertas Wrote:  Question to the OP about demographics: were there any specific venues where you met girls that tended to have a higher conversion rate, or was it just random day game all over the place?

Tinder and random day game.

(12-10-2013 06:38 AM)master_thespian Wrote:  I am curious, were most of these bangs on a weeknight?(I am guessing almost all of them?)

Yeah, I'd say almost all of them were on weeknights. Off the top of my head, only one was on a Saturday night, and there might have been one on a Sunday but I can't be certain.

That's an interesting observation - what's your theory behind it?

Post: #37

Create your own world.

Sage advice my good man, sage advice. The great men are the ones who can convince themselves that the world is what they make of it.

Post: #38

(12-10-2013 08:01 PM)BlurredSevens Wrote:  

(12-10-2013 06:38 AM)master_thespian Wrote:  I am curious, were most of these bangs on a weeknight?(I am guessing almost all of them?)

Yeah, I'd say almost all of them were on weeknights. Off the top of my head, only one was on a Saturday night, and there might have been one on a Sunday but I can't be certain.

That's an interesting observation - what's your theory behind it?

That is what I thought. My logic is that most of us work regular jobs monday to friday. Women still have needs, while they might not want to schedule a date for going out for drinks on a weeknight, (they have to be up early the next day for work), they might be open to directly going to a guy's house for sex to fulfill their sexual needs. They get what they need, still make it home in time to get a good night's sleep.

I have not tried this 0 date bang idea out but if you frame it properly, I could totally see it working well. Also, I would preface this by saying you almost have to be a young and good looking or even very good to great looking guy to pull this off. I am 37 and it isn't too late for me, but I think I would have a much easier time doing this 10 to 15 years ago.

Post: #39

(12-11-2013 03:30 AM)master_thespian Wrote:  They get what they need, still make it home in time to get a good night's sleep.

I am 37 and it isn't too late for me, but I think I would have a much easier time doing this 10 to 15 years ago.

Yup, on point with the first part. I have a hard time re-banging many of these girls, since they understand that it's a one night stand. Crossing into the territory of consistent fuck buddy is more difficult, but I have done it a couple times. It requires that you help her rationalize her actions for her, so she doesn't have to do it herself. i.e. "it's just summer fun" or whatever.

As for being 37, well I'm not even 30 yet so I can't relate. But part of creating your own world is just that - shedding your limiting beliefs and getting what you want. Who says a 37 year old guy can't pull this off? Right now, nobody, only you are saying that. Think about it.

Post: #40

(12-15-2013 08:13 PM)BlurredSevens Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 03:30 AM)master_thespian Wrote:  They get what they need, still make it home in time to get a good night's sleep.

I am 37 and it isn't too late for me, but I think I would have a much easier time doing this 10 to 15 years ago.

Yup, on point with the first part. I have a hard time re-banging many of these girls, since they understand that it's a one night stand. Crossing into the territory of consistent fuck buddy is more difficult, but I have done it a couple times. It requires that you help her rationalize her actions for her, so she doesn't.

How exactly did you do this? What did you do differently?

Quote:Who says a 37 year old guy can't pull this off? Right now, nobody, only you are saying that. Think about it.

Oh I agree, and like I said, it isn't too late for me to be doing this sort of thing. Being 47 would be a much tougher sell I would think, and pulling women in their 20s. I tell all of these women I date that I am 29. So long as i stay clean shaven, it isn't too tough to sell anyone on that.

It simply hasn't occurred to me to try this.

Post: #41

tried this twice so far since the thread started, first one said no but she would still me near my place, still haven't texted her back, but it was our first date and I will probably text her back. The second said yes! It was actually pretty easy, she came over, second time with her, and we had a great time, full on success, and she wants to come back over before I leave for the holidays. I am going to be trying this all the time now. Pretty confident I can pull this off for most if not all second dates. Remember - you have a no shoes rule...

master_thespian - I am your age but look in my 20's. You should be even more successful for this, usually we have better apartments

Post: #42

A handful of guys have been asking me questions about my texting game, so I'm going to break it down here since it's relevant to the original post.

(12-26-2013 12:56 AM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  hey blurred, I read your zero date bangs post.

All good, but the part you're glossing over is the 1-2 weeks of txt game you're running, before getting them in person. That's a lot of game.

My problem is I'm only in a city hardly a week before I'm off the next one.

You mentioned sending them pictures of Miley Cyrus. Could you break down your txt game a little more? I suspect you're creating a lot of interest and entertainment via your txts. Would love to know more about your routines.

The 1-2 weeks of txt game is personal preference. I prefer to put a bunch of girls in the pipeline, giving me the opportunity to pull the trigger whenever a free night opens up. Sometimes I pull same day using the exact same routines, it all depends on my schedule.

Overall though, I think waiting a few days in between the initial texts and suggestion to meet up works in my favor, as it makes her feel like she's known me longer than she has.

Breakdown of the Miley Cyrus Routine:

2pm Day 1
Me: Hey Katie this is Blurred, how are you?
Her: Good just working. You?
Me: Good. I've been trying to figure out how I feel about this: (send funny pic of Miley Cyrus)
Her: lol wtf!? What are your trying to figure out?
Me: her hair. what do you think about it?
Her: it's different, I'll give her that.
Me: she looks like Skrillex
Her: I like that she isn't ashamed to be herself
Me: maybe if you shaved half your head, you could be famous too
Her: hahah no way, I like my hair too much

At this point I either: A: don't text again for a few days, or B: keep texting and go for the same day meetup.

If I choose path "A", I'll reopen her in a few days with a basic statement ("it's a great night for margaritas") or I'll just direct ask her what she's up to later. Then I pickup with the routine below.

If I choose path "B", I'll just continue with the routine below:


Me: so what are you up to later, maybe we can make out or something
Her: hahah but what if you are an axe murderer
Me: I was just thinking the same thing. What if you are a cat hoarder
Her: I hate cats
Me: my friend owns over 10 cats
Her: I could never take that kind of guy seriously
Me: He's alright. But anyway what part of town do you live in
Her: near ABC, you?
Me: I'm over by XYZ. Come by at 9:30 for a drink
Her: (any number of things can happen from here...see my other posts for how to handle a negative reply at this stage.)


So yeah, that's the gist of it. The Miley Cyrus thing is just one example. This routine works with pictures of any odd-looking celebrity, or really any random topic you can think of. Girls like to play and have fun. And so do I. So it works out.

Takeaways:

1. Banter, more than anything, shows her that you are a normal person.
2. Don't ask girls their schedule....they don't have one.
3. Always suggest "making out" with her at some stage. If she doesn't respond favorably or at least neutrally, I don't bother.
4. Accusing girls of being fat or a cat hoarder or whatever is a fun routine, and it gets her to subconsciously qualify herself a little bit.
5. Don't invite girls over before 9 or 10pm. You're letting her know what's up by suggesting the late meet up time.

Post: #43

ADDENDUM

Guys,

One of the things I've noticed while studying and experimenting with Tuth's First-Date Bang Recipe, is that there is a lot of confirmation bias going on. Guys say "yeah we went back to my place after one drink - all thanks to my bachelor pad bait!" And I think that this is a mistake. These are girls that would have come directly over in the first place. After 15 months of experimenting and dozens of Zero Date Bangs then I am wholeheartedly convinced of this. Let me break it down:

In the First-Date Bangs thread, Soup hits the nail on the head: "Asking a girl back to your house can be very risky, and I've found that if I don't pay surgical attention to the events leading up to the invite, it can back fire very badly."

No doubt you have had this experience too: the date is going great, and you make the move to get her home. And it fails. And you never see her again.

Why does this happen?

Conventional game wisdom tells you this:
1. You didn't escalate properly
2. Your vibe was off, your conversation skills were lacking, your outfit was whack, the venue wasn't conducive
3. She was just there for validation or free drinks
4. You didn't use plausible deniability to get her home

I want to challenge that wisdom. My experience tells me that there is only TWO reasons you didn't get her home:

1. She didn't want to bang
2. You made it too hard to bang

But aren't these all the same thing? No: I believe there is a subtle and overlooked difference. When you use bait or game to "get her home" then I hate to tell you this: the whole date was a massive shit test. She would have come over without the date. She came home after the date in spite of the failed the shit test, because she was still attracted/horny enough and wanted to bang, even though the date was exhausting. Anything over and above this is male or female rationalization.

If a girl wants to bang, she is going to subconsciously make it easy for you. Either because she is already attracted to you, or because she is horny, or both. A girl that doesn't want to bang will flake, she will suggest a coffee dates, etc. We all know this. Yet we don't preach it. We advise that going on dates will get her home, but to me that is a logical error. You're putting a barrier between the two of you, and you're forcing yourself to jump over it in order to attract someone who is already attracted to you.

"But how do I know if she's attracted to me, if she's horny, or if she's just using me for validation?" Easy. You invite her over! That is the single best filter out there: if she won't come to your house for the first date, then you are not going to bang her on the first date. If she won't come directly over, then either she's not attracted to you, or she's not horny. And why in the world would you meet up with a girl who wasn't either of those things?

Now I know wheat you're thinking: "Blurred it sounds like you are skipping the attraction phase. That's a cornerstone of game. I build attraction on the date and that's how I can bang her."

It may seem like this, but that is not the case.

I have already sufficiently attracted her:
1. When she gave me her number, she was physically and/or emotionally attracted to me
2. When we bantered via text, I built more emotional attraction
3. When I was bold enough to invite her directly over, that is an emotional attraction spike

[at this point she wants to meet me because she's attracted and/or horny. If she's not attracted/horny at this point, then going on a date won't change a thing.]

4. When she is at my house, we make dinner together or make drinks or listen to music or play games. There is massive attraction building going on
5. When I go for the first kiss, etc., it's all still attraction building

You don't have to be at a bar paying $13 margaritas for a chick to want to fuck you. In fact it's more likely the girl will become bored in these situations, and then you have to still try make the transition to lure her home, and the whole thing is a ton of work and not very fun. And it can easily backfire. So why bother with all that shit?

You're also probably thinking: "aren't you losing a ton of girls by putting them on the spot like this?" The answer is no. Like I said, if she's not attracted/horny enough to come over, then she never truly saw me as an option anyway.

Still not convinced?

Think of it like this: which of these stories is a girl going to want to tell her friends?

1. "I went on a date at a trendy bar with this guy and got kind of drunk. We went back to his place to listen to music, and ended up having sex. Ugh, I can't believe I had sex on a first date! I'm such a slut."

2. "I made dinner with this really sweet guy. He is an amazing cook and even picked out a great wine! I offered to do the dishes, and when I was at the sink he walked up behind me and kissed me on the neck. It was so hot!"

Shit even I am getting horny reading #2! Build that fantasy for girls, and use it to lead them. Get all the bullshit out of your own way, and the results will speak for themselves.

---

As I've experimented, my Zero Date Bangs game has evolved.

Here is how I'm setting things up now:

1. Get the digits
2. Comfort building text game. I used to think that texting for X time was mandatory, but now I think it is irrelevant. What's important is that you have one or two really solid text conversations with her. Talk about your feelings, your outlook on the world. Engage her with some emotional topics (aka chick crack) and she will be hooked. Some girls take 1 day to hook some take 3 weeks.
3. Eventually you say something like "we should hang soon, but I don't really do the normal date thing."
4. She will inquire, and you explain that drink dates are for losers, and you'd rather cook dinner with her so you can determine if you're a good match.
5. She will either agree or shit test you. You tell her that if she truly wants to get to know you then this is her opportunity. "If you're one of those boring girls just looking for a free drink, then we're probably not a good fit anyway."

Remember, girls are not logical. They are emotional creatures. Zero Date Bangs leverages this fact, and I believe that's why it is effective.

I also believe that this is a more honest approach to being with girls. I do truthfully get to know a girl when we cook dinner or whatever together, and I have a lot of fun. It's a cool experience for both of us and just feels more natural to me.

I know there are a lot of bold statements here, but my experiences have led me to these conclusions.

So, RVF, I challenge you: in 2015 I want you to invite a girl directly to your house for dinner or for drinks, and then report back on what happened.

Good luck!

Post: #44

Gold post. Repped for that. Ties in with my experiences too- I'm damn lazy when it comes to chicks. Hell, I've fucked chicks after picking them up 'for a tractor ride'

Post: #45

Zero date bangs worked for me in Asia but never in the US, but I only tried a couple of times inviting girls directly to my place in the US, both declined.

Here is a question: isn't it better to talk on the phone to build comfort than engage in a long text message exchange before a zero-date bang? The consensus on RVF seems to be that texting should be kept to a bare minimum and used for logistics only, but with zero date bangs, some comfort has to be built so this is where a phone call comes in.

Post: #46

^Especially if you met this girl online. Would you suggest calling in order to increase connection?

Post: #47

I want to like this idea. It cuts out much of the issues we face with logistics in running the standard date model - let alone being able to seed a pull back to your place.

I think that it does have a drawback in that it heavily relies on keeping the girl's interest with text game over the interval of time needed to build the necessary comfort. And I think that the standard opinion in game is that texting (I'm assuming since you're running this on American girls mainly, that you're relying on texting) gives her home-court advantage, since she can string you out for giving her attention for however long she desires. On top of which, you run the risk of having her "buying window" close beforehand if she gets inundated with other prospects (which, being a girl in the Anglosphere, is more than likely.) It strikes me that this method would require advanced-level text game at a minimum, and that players less skilled in that area would be better off with the Tuthmosis Recipe.

HSLD

Post: #48

(01-03-2015 04:50 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  both declined.

Your sample set is 2?

(01-03-2015 04:50 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  Here is a question: isn't it better to talk on the phone to build comfort than engage in a long text message exchange before a zero-date bang? The consensus on RVF seems to be that texting should be kept to a bare minimum and used for logistics only, but with zero date bangs, some comfort has to be built so this is where a phone call comes in.

I've been successful with both.

It really depends on how good your verbal game is, and whatever connection you made before you got the #.

When you don't text, you avoid being her entertainment monkey, but you can also can't build on what happened when you met her.

It's a style preference.

Most folks prefer to shoot for the same night lay, even though day 2's aren't dead.

WIA

WIA

Post: #49

(01-03-2015 04:50 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  Here is a question: isn't it better to talk on the phone to build comfort than engage in a long text message exchange before a zero-date bang?

If your phone game is strong, then yes. Mine is not. But my text game is very strong so that's what I run with.

The key isn't how you communicate with her, it's that you communicate something with her.

Here's an example of how I start texting a new girl:

Me: Hey Katie it's Blurred, how are you?
Girl: Hey Blurred I'm good, what are you up to?
Me: I've been hanging at this coffee shop for awhile, trying to plan out my upcoming year. 2014 was great for me but I think 2015 is the year where I can accomplish some of my biggest goals yet.
Girl: Oh yeah?
Me: Yeah, my new years resolution is to travel to 3 different countries and to finally become conversational in Spanish. blah blah blah...

I just ramble via text until she hooks. I know traditionally there is a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio recommended for texting, but for me the results were always mixed. So now I just ramble with these girls and tell them all about myself, and whatever I am feeling at that particular moment. I honestly don't know why it works, but it does work noticeably better for me than just straight logistical or aloof style texting.

(01-03-2015 05:20 PM)HighSpeed_LowDrag Wrote:  It strikes me that this method would require advanced-level text game at a minimum, and that players less skilled in that area would be better off with the Tuthmosis Recipe.

I agree, it's not a method I would recommend for beginners. Too much subtlety involved.

That said, I should make it clear that I run BOTH the Tuthmosis Recipe AND Zero Date Bangs side-by-side, depending on the situation. Last week I posted on the forum about a girl I met while traveling, and then successfully ran the First Date Bang recipe on her. But tonight there is a girl coming over to make fondue with me because we talked a lot about cooking when we first texted, so now it's a Zero Date Bangs scenario.

It just depends on the girl and the situation. I don't want to act like I'm running at a 100% conversion rate over here, because that is not the case. Most girls don't agree to come over, and of those girls that do, not all of them bang. But overall, in the long run, it works out in my favor.

These are my most recent stats for some perspective:

November + December:
41 new numbers
15 meetups (either she came over or we did a first date)
6 new bangs (4 zero dates, 1 first date, 1 SNL)

Some of those phone numbers are still alive, but as you can see a lot of girls drop off, and I think that will always be the case.

Post: #50

(01-04-2015 12:24 PM)BlurredSevens Wrote:  That said, I should make it clear that I run BOTH the Tuthmosis Recipe AND Zero Date Bangs side-by-side, depending on the situation. Last week I posted on the forum about a girl I met while traveling, and then successfully ran the First Date Bang recipe on her. But tonight there is a girl coming over to make fondue with me because we talked a lot about cooking when we first texted, so now it's a Zero Date Bangs scenario.

It just depends on the girl and the situation. I don't want to act like I'm running at a 100% conversion rate over here, because that is not the case. Most girls don't agree to come over, and of those girls that do, not all of them bang. But overall, in the long run, it works out in my favor.

What's the determinant for whether you run Zero-Date or First-Date on her? It strikes me that the rambling you do via text would tend to work better on girls who are less inclined to be the party/club rats and more able to avoid being distracted by options. Have you been able to perceive whether it is more likely to work on one specific subset of girl over another?

You also mentioned earlier that you usually are at a obviously higher 'league' than the girls you run this on. Looking on your member page it says your lifestyle bankroll is between $6,000 - $10,000 dollars a month. My wonder is whether it's less likely to work for guys who aren't as obviously in a league above their targets. (This isn't intended as a dig to say that it only works for you b/c you have money, to be clear.)

HSLD