Post: #76

Tiggaling, I can tell you're a nice guy motivated by humanitarian concerns, but you've been duped. The multiculturalist ideology is bankrupt. More and more people in the West are beginning to wake up and realize this fact. Try to extend your humanitarian feelings toward your own people rather than to half-civilized foreigners with absolutely zero desire to integrate into Western culture. What you're basically doing, unknowingly, is extending your hand out to a group of people who would just as soon chop it off as shake it. Do they necessarily want to kill you or others? No, I'm not saying they are all literally murderous. But do they want to ensure the continued existence of your distinct national culture? No, they couldn't care less. So in that sense, immigrants are literally cultural killers when allowed to enter a country en masse. A country is more than a piece of land with lines drawn on a map. It is a unique collection of people with a shared culture and history. You lose that if you allow it to be displaced by massive amounts of immigration from people who don't culturally assimilate themselves.

Welcoming hordes of immigrants into developed Western countries is no different and no less destructive than inviting dozens of homeless drug addicts to set up a camp in a gated community. Under the guise of helping the unfortunate, all that really happens is the massive degradation and gradual complete destruction of the nicer area. If you are a man from the West who values Western culture, you have nothing to gain and everything to lose by supporting third world immigration into Western countries. You're literally advocating policies that will gradually annihilate your country and its culture as you know it.

Post: #77

what a thread!!

Post: #78

scorpion raises a valid point. Don't let in immigrants who don't want to integrate and assimilate into the host country. Australia's lucky in that the major groups of immigrants, Anglo's, Mediterraneans and Asians all have assimilated very well compared to immigrants from the Middle East/Eastern Europe and Latin America in the EU and the U.S

What he doesn't get is what he's talking about in his above post is by no means true of all immigrant groups in all countries. Australia and New Zealand are really lucky in that regard, I'm under the impression that Canada might be too. All three of these countries for the most part only take in educated and skilled migrants, which is why they've had few problems despite their high immigration levels.

EDIT:

(09-21-2013 05:06 PM)tiggaling Wrote:  My point was immigrating into Australia is not easy. We all know Australia has had to import a lot of people with skills because of a skills shortage. (probably the result of Australia largely selling out its higher education system to foreigners!)

The distinction needs to be made between Australia's being selective in who it takes and still taking in so many people, I guess we can be picky because we're a country of only 23 million people but there's so much demand to come here. As for higher education, I would seriously reduce the number of international students in our universities, but given the choice between taking in the children of China's upper middle class as university students or taking in Iraqi's or Mexican's to work dirty and dangerous low-paid jobs, I'll take the former any day.

Post: #79

Quote:Obviously there are still enclaves, but on average Australia has much higher levels of residential integration of immigrants than other western countries. Most non-British/Kiwi/South African second generation young people I know can't even speak their parents language. A lot of kids who went to the selective entry state schools are FOBy as fuck though because most of those schools have barely any white kids.

I observe a lot of people through work and travel, and no-one will ever convince me that people aren't naturally tribal.

I've said before my town is extremely-multicultured. But what I see is that Lebanese, Sudanese, Indian, Middle Eastern & Asian men move in packs of men of their own culture, speaking their own language. I simply never see intermixing in social groups out and about on a day to day basis. This might be different in Educated Enclaves, such as Universities, but then White People there are desperate to prove they're what we used to call 'Right On' by adopting a pet minority as a friend, much the same way 'cool' girls need their pet gays.

The only exception I see in this observation trend is the Tongan, Fijian and Maori men, who are accepted in White Rugby League Culture - which is in itself another 'tribe'. Some Alpha White Girls try to land them, because they're naturally huge, muscular, masculine blokes and they read their skin colour as 'tan' rather than 'other'. Otherwise, I've never seen a pretty white girl with anything but a taller, white man.

Anyway, this goes beyond race. People seem to group and find friends with via similar interests and values. The Farmer Boys, The Rugby Players, The Post-Graduate Mushroom-Haired Women, The Bikers, The Gay Guys, The Punks, The Houso Single Mothers etc. Hell, even teenage girls here move in packs of long, straight hair parted in the middle and tiny jean shorts. Very little dissent in presentation is accepted within packs. A Mushroom Hair women would chastise her friend for shopping at Aldi instead of Woolworths. A Farmer would be laughed at by his mates for driving a Mini instead of a Ute.

You need to accept this is how society naturally stratifies itself, particularly in relation to Western Women. You can't welcome immigration of a highly-resilient underclass of workers on one hand, then complain about the laziness and entitlement of western women at the same time, because Feminism is built of the back of this immigrant underclass both doing the unpleasant work that might have taught them humbleness, the value of hard work, realistic expecations and resilience, and is propping up the social welfare system via taxation that feminist women are so dependent on.

Post: #80

The fundamental problem is that we are culturally sensitive, while most immigrants are not. Thus you get one-way cultural sensitivity.

Are immigrants integrating into our society and accepting our cultural customs to a reasonable degree? No, I don't think many of them are. Do we force them to? No, we don't.

It's not that immigration is inherently bad, it's that our current policy is of unfettered diversity, sensitivity, and multiculturalism, and we refuse to make any negative value judgements pertaining to someone else's morally bankrupt cultural stupidity. Take the mass harvesting of sharkfin. Umambiguously morally bankrupt. Canada is trying to ban the sale of this item. And many of the Chinese people here, some who have demonstrated no desire to even associate with white people, aren't remotely ashamed to whine about their precious culture to those same white people. The resulting cognitive dissonance leaves your average white guilty leftist paralyzed by inaction. On one hand the environment, but on the other hand cultural sensitivity.

This society can't close the borders to immigrants, it does so at the cost of economic collapse. The only answer is to force people to integrate to a functional extent or to put them on a boat and deport them. I am pro mass deportation at this point, these fuck ups running around in racial gangs committing violent anti-social acts, for example, need to be put on boats and taken back to the cultural squalor from whence them came.

Post: #81

Bosch, you're right but you do get less of that in the big cities. I do think this varies even by which area of a city you're from. Way less intermixing in the outer suburbs and way more closer to the centre. Universities are interesting because social groups are extremely mixed but domestic and international students never hang out with each other. White kids will have lots of 2nd generation Asian friends but zero international student Asian friends despite how many of them there are on campus. Social stratification in this context is less about race than about how much people actually have in common with each other, and like you said that's true for wider society as well.

Post: #82

(09-21-2013 10:15 PM)P Dog Wrote:  Bosch, you're right but you do get less of that in the big cities. I do think this varies even by which area of a city you're from. Way less intermixing in the outer suburbs and way more closer to the centre.

Which, once again, means it's a Class Privilige thing. I said a week back that the Gawker Media beat the racism drum so soundly because they live in bubbles of gentrification where every person of colour they know has a university degree. This simply isn't the experience for the majority of society: it's enclaves and socialising within gangs.

Post: #83

(09-21-2013 05:29 PM)scorpion Wrote:  Welcoming hordes of immigrants into developed Western countries is no different and no less destructive than inviting dozens of homeless drug addicts to set up a camp in a gated community. Under the guise of helping the unfortunate, all that really happens is the massive degradation and gradual complete destruction of the nicer area. If you are a man from the West who values Western culture, you have nothing to gain and everything to lose by supporting third world immigration into Western countries. You're literally advocating policies that will gradually annihilate your country and its culture as you know it.

While I'm largely in agreement with you, this part is a bit extreme.

I would argue that immigrants are actually the lesser evil compared to refugees.

A regulated immigration policy benefits host countries greatly. 1st world countries need 3rd world laborers at this point. We need gardeners, dishwashers, cooks, nannies, farmhands, plumbers, construction workers. We get skilled workers all over the world who are willing to work for less and do just as good of a job. The downside is many of them send their excess cash back home, but you can't fault them for that, and if they're legit then they paid taxes on it anyway.

I do agree with your assessment of European immigration policy and I think it's something that's only going to get worse. But to generalize immigration, in its entirety, as leading to the downfall of a Western country is going a bit far.

A properly regulated immigration policy ensures that immigrants coming to a host country contribute, rather than leech.

Post: #84

(09-21-2013 11:05 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

(09-21-2013 10:15 PM)P Dog Wrote:  Bosch, you're right but you do get less of that in the big cities. I do think this varies even by which area of a city you're from. Way less intermixing in the outer suburbs and way more closer to the centre.

Which, once again, means it's a Class Privilige thing. I said a week back that the Gawker Media beat the racism drum so soundly because they live in bubbles of gentrification where every person of colour they know has a university degree. This simply isn't the experience for the majority of society: it's enclaves and socialising within gangs.

I think the biggest problem with assimilation is the existence of these enclaves.

So the question is, what is the future of these enclaves? I don't think enclaves themselves are going away, but the Chinese families in their major enclave in my city are spreading from it (which is already above average in terms of income and median house prices) into the wealthy, Anglo-Celtic, private school belt, Liberal party heartland next door and have been for a while now. The enclave itself isn't becoming any less Chinese though despite though.

South Asian immigrant groups here are spreading out more evenly into cheaper area's further from the city that adjoin their main cluster as their populations grow, mixing with the white families that are also moving to the fringe for affordable housing; which is exactly what happened with Italian, Greek and Jewish immigrants in the post war decades.

I don't see either phenomenon happening yet with the Middle Easterners, Africans and to some extent the Vietnamese though. Despite all the noise the press makes about boat people, the trajectory of these aforementioned groups and others like Maori's and Islanders that you mentioned is going to be our biggest immigration concern going into the future.

Post: #85

You'd guys ignored me.

Post: #86

Scorpian,

To be honest, I don't really value western culture that much! I can see its value and what it brings to the table, but I don't abide by it as a benchmark for what is "civilised". I actually think western culture is pretty uncivilised in a lot of ways. I think individuation goes too far, people are often selfish and work against each other, there is often a lack of friendliness and good will between people and there are all these issues like breakdown of the family, pedophilia etc.

People in Syria do not actually see the west as uncivilised, but they think issues high rates of single motherhood is appalling and that issues like rampant drug use are signs of an unhealthy civilisation.

I do not think at all that "syrians" are somehow more uncivilised than white europeans. Sorry, anyone who says that obviously hasn't been to Syria (or probably travelled beyond a few countries) and they are just buying into narrow minded cliches of white superiority and two dimensional, non complex understandings of humanity, culture and its different values.

So in terms of Australia, I wouldn't have a major problem if white culture is annihilated there! (But I don't think that is going to happen however and I think that is a gross exaggeration!)

I think the immigrants are often more civil than the locals. I make a point of talking to them pretty often. They are motivated, switched on people and they mostly have grave misgivings about being in Australia. They bought a dream, and now find themselves living in a place with these alienated, disconnected people, whose primary aim is security, working and actually not making much culture at all! You know, back home, people often dance in the streets at night, take long siestas, and drink coffee together rather than work all the time and actually there is some sort of community.

The traditional Australian idea of community, is that you go watch a man and an ostrich make fun of people on television in your suburban enclave. Or you go to a sporting arena in garish garments and shout and scream at your suburban side. Or you have "the pub". That's about it!

No wonder, people from other cultures stick together in their communities, their "enclaves" and they normally do community minded things together. Whereas, how do white Australians build community? I'd say they simply don't have particularly strong communities or interpersonal connections in general.

I think we can look at this matter and see immigrants as "half-civilised" is really a kind of narrow cultural imperialism. It is an easy view to take, a real short cut I think to owning up the complexities of these issues.

We all know in Australia about Pauline Hanson who got into politics by talking about immigrants and how they didn't integrate. Just maybe she had a point, and just maybe she shouldn't be defined as being racist for saying that. I'm not buying into blue pill "liberal" PC BS here on this issue.

But what is racism often, than thinking that white cultures and white people are superior to other cultures? It is really quite silly isn't it? This is what Japanese people literally think too. But their cultural values are just very different, what they consider to be important and paramount importance in the Japan, we may not consider to be so vital and important in the weat.

I think the immigrants add more colour to often pretty bland cultures. And which country has the blandest culture of them all? Well, probably Denmark. But Sweden comes in pretty close I would say!

People who live Sydney or Melbourne, I would say I do not think that immigrants are cultural killers. The first waves of italian migrants means that Melbourne has a very good cafe/coffee culture, which the italians really brought to the fore. Good luck finding coffee as good in the UK or the U.S.

I would shudder to think what Australia would be like if it was only a "white Australia" policy. On the other hand, I find it pretty strange to go into some suburbs in Melbourne or Sydney and find that it is only Korean people or Chinese people everywhere you go. Or that some primary schools in Melbourne's inner east are composed of 80-90% Chinese kids where you have 8 year old kids learning Chinese.

Maybe since the renaissance, western white people have dominated the globe, but I'd say particularly Asia is really coming to the fore, and the power in the idea that western people can somehow own "civilisation" and being "civilised" is slipping away very fast I think to an increasingly fast paced, globalised paradigm.

Post: #87

tiggaling, Melbourne's inner east is one of the whitest areas in the city. Are you sure you don't mean somewhere like Box Hill?

Speaking of Pauline Hanson, I remember a while back she was moving to the UK for a while and said on A Current Affair that she wasn't willing to sell her home in Queensland to Muslims, but was happy to sell it to immigrants from Asia. Her reasoning was that she didn't believe the former could assimilate into Aussie society but that the later could.

Post: #88

(09-22-2013 06:57 AM)P Dog Wrote:  tiggaling, Melbourne's inner east is one of the whitest areas in the city. Are you sure you don't mean somewhere like Box Hill?

Yeah, more Balwyn/Box Hill area.

Post: #89

Do you guys actually think there's some cultural shift in Australian politics, or that this guy just picked the people he wanted and never really put much thought into whether they were male or female?

Post: #90

I don't think there's been that much of a shift at all.

Howard had 3 women in his last Cabinet
Gillard had 3 (not including herself)
Rudd had 6 (a record)
Abbott has 1

The difference between having 3 women vs. only 1 woman is not huge. There's just a much smaller talent pool to select from.

Post: #91

(09-22-2013 05:42 AM)tiggaling Wrote:  The traditional Australian idea of community, is that you go watch a man and an ostrich make fun of people on television in your suburban enclave. Or you go to a sporting arena in garish garments and shout and scream at your suburban side. Or you have "the pub". That's about it!

What a steaming pile of shit.

This is a gross oversimplifiation, that shows both social class and race bias, and a complete misunderstanding of the reality of Australian Community, and is exactly the sort of thing I'd expect a supercilious private-school educated inner-city male feminist to spout.

If you're going to bag on White Culture by using the negative extremes as examples, I could do the same thing by reducing all aboriginals to petrol-sniffing, alcoholic daughter-fuckers; all africans as virgin-fucking HIV carriers; and all muslisms as terrorists who want to kill those of other religions, such as the one blowing up 72 people in a Christian Church in Afghanistan this morning.

Question why you'd naturally rise to defend my exaggerated reduction of the complexity of those cultures, but never once question yourself doing the same to white australian culture.

Could it be superiority talking? Viewing your values as 'better' than ours?

Post: #92

(09-22-2013 02:32 PM)Andy_B Wrote:  Do you guys actually think there's some cultural shift in Australian politics, or that this guy just picked the people he wanted and never really put much thought into whether they were male or female?

No shift.

He has presented himself as restoring the equivalent of the previous conservative government of 6 years ago, and picking most of the same people, even the completely useless Kevin Andrews who still has his mum dress him and comb his hair in the morning.

Most of the available females are young and in their first or second term of parliament, and of the females who would have been available for the bove mentioned criteria, one got voted out and the other got elevated to speaker of the house.

Abbott was returning to a previous model that seems to have favour.

Post: #93

thedude, they dont pay any taxes here in America. They send most of the money home. no willingness to adapt to our culture, they just take advantage of our benefits. and no, we do not need cheap labor. nothing good comes of it.

ex: Maine, the whitest state by percentage, has whites cleaning houses, doing gardening, cooking, etc... and they're doing just fine. the difference is that they don't send the money to some other country and they pay taxes like law abiding citizens.

America used to be a great country, and its going to the shitter.

lax immigration policies is one of the major factors of general decay.

Post: #94

I'm in Sweden right now. On my travels abroad I have seen desperate poverty first-hand; street children, people sitting on the side-walk with tumors the size of medicine balls on their stomach, people missing limbs, entire families homeless etc. Seeing other people living like that is heart-breaking to be perfectly honest. Then imagine how it must be actually being in that situation, rather than just witnessing it.

Sometimes I ask myself, will those people ever get the chance to come here and get help? I would be the first one to open the door for them if they did. But they can't even afford a taxi ride to the airport, let alone the plane ticket. So sadly it's difficult for them to come here. Actually, it's quite common to read news-stories about how people that actually could escape famine or war, are being sent back by the authorities while other more well-off immigrants are allowed to stay.

I strongly suspect many immigrants that DO come to Sweden, though of course not all, were middle class in their home countries. Many weren't really in danger of famine or wars. Maybe they lived in a country with limited political freedom, but tough luck. Then they came here to get a boost in the general quality of life, enjoy the infrastructure etc and not have to work as hard. Aside from being a woman, I can't think of anything better than being an immigrant if you want to get hired here.

When you consider all this, it's easy to see that the argument that the liberal (in the original meaning of the word) politicians try to make doesn't entirely hold up; most people living in desperate situations around the world never get the chance to emigrate. So as much as the politicians try to project themselves as good samaritans, it's obvious they promote immigration to suppress wages as well as increase demand for products and services in order too boost the economy. And it's not like they themselves choose to live in the "ghettos". They live in upper-class neighborhoods far away from the social problems they are creating (while collecting our tax money as their pay check).

However, instead of complaining too much about it online I think it's better to try to look for positives. At the end of the day, it's not like my opinion matter or that I can do anything about it anyway. More immigrants? Well, that just means more pussy for me since roughly 50% of immigrants are female. So while immigration is probably a net loss for me financially, it is a net gain in terms of pussy.

Still though, just like I won't stay around here to pay for the retirement of the baby boomers (again, I'm generalizing, not all baby boomers are undeserving of retirement) or for the entitlements and lifestyle of the feminists, I won't stay around to pay for middle class immigrants.

Post: #95

The pussy quality isn't exctly high quality.
Most illegals are Mexicans, and they are for the most part ugly and get fat. Mexicans are on the lower end in looks for the latino population.

Post: #96

AnonymousBosch,

Maybe you can talk to me about Australian community then? And how you see it working beyond cliches of what it is?

What is this community that immigrants are supposed to integrate into? And how do you suggest they go about that?

(09-22-2013 04:04 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  and is exactly the sort of thing I'd expect a supercilious private-school educated inner-city male feminist to spout.

oh matey, you got me so wrong! I grew up in wheat country, and went to a government school! :-)

Quote:Could it be superiority talking? Viewing your values as 'better' than ours?

I travel a lot. Australia often seems like quite a fractured place, people often seem really alienated from one another.

I'm very critical of the culture and why not? I do not think Australians are critical enough of their own culture, and neither do they often seem to really appreciate how good they have it compared to everyone else in the world.

Like I said, I talk to a lot of immigrants and also foreigners who travel there, and they have heaps to say about Australian culture if you are open to hearing it and not just being some bombastic patriot.

Post: #97

A lot Australians identify with their capital city (or country town) rather than Australia.

Melbourne culture vs. Alice Springs culture vs. Gold Coast culture vs. Adelaide culture

Pretty different lifestyles.

Australians only really feel united through sport or when travelling overseas.

Otherwise there's not a huge deal that ties us together.

Post: #98

Tiggaling- Nice contradictions there! On one hand you decry white Australian culture...then immediately say we don't appreciate "how good we have it compared to other countries"...
What about the "culture" that produced one of the best countries in the world (if you've travelled you would have to agree) is so bad that you want it destroyed?
Hatred of your own culture...perplexing.
What is so superior about the "community" culture of Iraqis/Sri Lankans/Afghanis/Iranians that causes you to admire them so? Medieval religious beliefs? Quaint,"exotic" dress sense? Use of interesting spices in their cuisine?
If the young society/culture that Anglo-Saxon Australians has produced is so inferior then why would the vast majority of the world's people move here in a heartbeat for a better life/style from the societies that their (in your view) superior cultures have produced?
Nice to see that you reduce Oz culture to watching Hey,Hey it's Saturday, watching football and going to the pub...Maybe your "wheat-belt town" upbringing has coloured your views somewhat. ..
Feel free to move to Sunshine/St Albans/Dandenong for a year and then reassess your admiration for the cultural superiority of "our" refugee brothers&sisters.

Post: #99

"Australia often seems like quite a fractured place, people often seem really alienated from one another."
As "fractured" as Syria,Iraq,Iran,Afghanistan,Somalia,Sudan,Egypt,Zimbabwe,Sierra Leone,Liberia,Sri Lanka,Pakistan. ...??
Or maybe the words you were looking for were "stable/secure/prosperous/free/rich...."

Post: #100

lol Bosch, private school educated males from the inner suburbs are one of the most politically conservative demographics of young people there is. Just because people live close to the city doesn't mean they're a Newtown/Fitzroy living Greens voting male feminist type.