Post: #76

(09-13-2013 07:08 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:28 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:13 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  As for Caterpillar, I don't know all the details. If the govt. wasn't in the road a new small business could start up, hire Caterpillar's best employees for the money they were making and bury Caterpillar. Or if those employees are worth what they were paid, they could go to a competitor and make it back and hurt Caterpillar.

Companies exist to make money. They will pay bottom dollar, as they have to so that they can compete. If they fuck over labor too much, labor can simply leave and bury the company for doing so.

Leave and go where? Manufacturing jobs are already vanishing as it is. I don't think you understand the labor dynamics in this globalized world. You yourself said they have to pay bottom dollar. Wages and benefits (in the private sector) are being eroded in a race to the bottom. That isn't a left-wing or right-wing talking point but it is the reality.

Before the 1980s and 1990s, there was a fine balance of power between management and labor but in this new global economy, that balance has shifted and managements have all the power over labor.

Edit: I am taking from the perspective of workers in the US and Canada and other Western countries.

Well, if no one else wants to pay them as much as they think they are worth, then why should the govt. jump in and force a company to pay them that much?

Eventually that company will just leave, and instead of making less, they make $0 along with $0 tax revenue.

If they can't find as much as they want doing what they do, then they need to get into another field. I am in IT full time, I have to constantly learn new technologies and new things to keep up. Just the way things are.

Huh? Where did I mention anything about governments forcing companies to pay them?

That's the whole point. The economic pie for labor is shrinking and companies rather pay people next to nothing in developing nations. Before every company decided to outsource production and hire people for as cheap as possible, there was a balance of power that existed between management and labor. There was a expectation that you could work hard and expect fair wages and benefits. Now you are just supposed to be lucky to have a job.

This is unsustainable. If the middle-class keeps on getting destroyed, ultimately companies will have no one to buy their products.

That's the reason why there is increasing wealth and income inequality in the West. Not sure what's so hard to understand about that.

Post: #77

(09-13-2013 06:25 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:09 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  Sweden is a false utopia. The US won't become like those Scandinavian countries simply by mimicking their social welfare policies. Those people have a very long and shared history full of mutual trust and cooperation, unlike Americans. This is very important when it comes to how well public institutions perform.

The following article really explains this well. Love this quote.

Quote:A Scandinavian economist once stated to Milton Friedman: "In Scandinavia we have no poverty." Milton Friedman replied, "That's interesting, because in America among Scandinavians, we have no poverty either." Indeed, the poverty rate for Americans with Swedish ancestry is only 6.7%, half the U.S average. Economists Geranda Notten and Chris de Neubourg have calculated the poverty rate in Sweden using the American poverty threshold, finding it to be an identical 6.7%.

http://www.newgeography.com/content/0015...lse-utopia

We don't have to be an exact clone of Scandinavia. But there are things we could do that would help create a more equitable society. For example. Single-payer healthcare. Tax the fuck out the elites to pay for it. And the less money you make, the less you get taxed to pay for it. The rich have the money, they'll continue to be rich regardless. That's one way of redistributing wealth in a way that makes sense. Another way, raise taxes on the extremely wealthy to give more scholarships to poor and middle income students so that people who want to go to school are saddled with 6-figure debt upon graduation. School is actually quite cheap in Europe.

Yes, but what is good is cheap school if it's only used to teach bullshit?

People think if we get level the playing field with the rich it will solve things... not true. It's just money!

Post: #78

(09-13-2013 07:16 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 07:08 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:28 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:13 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  As for Caterpillar, I don't know all the details. If the govt. wasn't in the road a new small business could start up, hire Caterpillar's best employees for the money they were making and bury Caterpillar. Or if those employees are worth what they were paid, they could go to a competitor and make it back and hurt Caterpillar.

Companies exist to make money. They will pay bottom dollar, as they have to so that they can compete. If they fuck over labor too much, labor can simply leave and bury the company for doing so.

Leave and go where? Manufacturing jobs are already vanishing as it is. I don't think you understand the labor dynamics in this globalized world. You yourself said they have to pay bottom dollar. Wages and benefits (in the private sector) are being eroded in a race to the bottom. That isn't a left-wing or right-wing talking point but it is the reality.

Before the 1980s and 1990s, there was a fine balance of power between management and labor but in this new global economy, that balance has shifted and managements have all the power over labor.

Edit: I am taking from the perspective of workers in the US and Canada and other Western countries.

Well, if no one else wants to pay them as much as they think they are worth, then why should the govt. jump in and force a company to pay them that much?

Eventually that company will just leave, and instead of making less, they make $0 along with $0 tax revenue.

If they can't find as much as they want doing what they do, then they need to get into another field. I am in IT full time, I have to constantly learn new technologies and new things to keep up. Just the way things are.

Huh? Where did I mention anything about governments forcing companies to pay them?

That's the whole point. The economic pie for labor is shrinking and companies rather pay people next to nothing in developing nations. Before every company decided to outsource production and hire people for as cheap as possible, there was a balance of power that existed between management and labor. There was a expectation that you could work hard and expect fair wages and benefits. Now you are just supposed to be lucky to have a job.

This is unsustainable. If the middle-class keeps on getting destroying, ultimately companies will have no one to buy their products.

The economic pie is shrinking because we have a govt. that is doing everything it can to hurt small and middle sized business to help protect their big corporate friends.

Of course companies would rather pay less for labor that is equally as good. That is how they compete on the global market.

There was a balance of power, but that went out the window as the world became smaller and the economy was no longer just based on our country, but instead it is a global competition. That isn't coming back anytime soon either, this is just a reality. If you use govt. to force these companies to pay more, they will simply employ less, or just move overseas.

The middle class is being destroyed more by our govt. than by manufacturing jobs moving overseas. What should these people do? Go back to school/trade school and learn a career in demand today. Such as IT, Healthcare, or other fields that are growing like crazy.

Post: #79

(09-13-2013 03:49 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 03:47 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  ^liberal Germany is doing OK.

Not really. It is doing better than the rest of Europe, but is on the same path of bankruptcy the USA is on.

Liberal economics simply cannot work. If the govt. wants to tax the rich, the rich will simply move and the govt. will get nothing. If the govt. wants to punish business, they will simply move or shut down.

You can't expect the govt. to make an even playing field. The only even playing field is getting the govt. out of the way so creative people can start their own business and make their own share of the world. Instead we have a govt. that passes more and more regulations and laws that kill off small businesses.

Provide evidence that Germany is on the "same path of bankruptcy" as the US. Simply stating that doesn't make it so, and the burden of proof lies upon you.

Also, no, the rich will not move. Where are they going to move to? Social democracies in the EU? Ha, good one!

Your "tax the rich and they'll move" argument may have merit when we are talking domestic, New York-to-Florida moves, but it holds no water when one applies it to the international sphere.

Post: #80

(09-13-2013 07:21 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 07:16 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 07:08 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:28 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:13 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  As for Caterpillar, I don't know all the details. If the govt. wasn't in the road a new small business could start up, hire Caterpillar's best employees for the money they were making and bury Caterpillar. Or if those employees are worth what they were paid, they could go to a competitor and make it back and hurt Caterpillar.

Companies exist to make money. They will pay bottom dollar, as they have to so that they can compete. If they fuck over labor too much, labor can simply leave and bury the company for doing so.

Leave and go where? Manufacturing jobs are already vanishing as it is. I don't think you understand the labor dynamics in this globalized world. You yourself said they have to pay bottom dollar. Wages and benefits (in the private sector) are being eroded in a race to the bottom. That isn't a left-wing or right-wing talking point but it is the reality.

Before the 1980s and 1990s, there was a fine balance of power between management and labor but in this new global economy, that balance has shifted and managements have all the power over labor.

Edit: I am taking from the perspective of workers in the US and Canada and other Western countries.

Well, if no one else wants to pay them as much as they think they are worth, then why should the govt. jump in and force a company to pay them that much?

Eventually that company will just leave, and instead of making less, they make $0 along with $0 tax revenue.

If they can't find as much as they want doing what they do, then they need to get into another field. I am in IT full time, I have to constantly learn new technologies and new things to keep up. Just the way things are.

Huh? Where did I mention anything about governments forcing companies to pay them?

That's the whole point. The economic pie for labor is shrinking and companies rather pay people next to nothing in developing nations. Before every company decided to outsource production and hire people for as cheap as possible, there was a balance of power that existed between management and labor. There was a expectation that you could work hard and expect fair wages and benefits. Now you are just supposed to be lucky to have a job.

This is unsustainable. If the middle-class keeps on getting destroying, ultimately companies will have no one to buy their products.

The economic pie is shrinking because we have a govt. that is doing everything it can to hurt small and middle sized business to help protect their big corporate friends.

Of course companies would rather pay less for labor that is equally as good. That is how they compete on the global market.

There was a balance of power, but that went out the window as the world became smaller and the economy was no longer just based on our country, but instead it is a global competition. That isn't coming back anytime soon either, this is just a reality. If you use govt. to force these companies to pay more, they will simply employ less, or just move overseas.

The middle class is being destroyed more by our govt. than by manufacturing jobs moving overseas. What should these people do? Go back to school/trade school and learn a career in demand today. Such as IT, Healthcare, or other fields that are growing like crazy.

Post: #81

(09-13-2013 07:23 PM)MHaes Wrote:  Also, no, the rich will not move. Where are they going to move to?

Hong Kong, or various small islands around the world.

Of course, if the rich ran from America we have our NSA to track them down. God bless the police state.

Post: #82

(09-13-2013 07:23 PM)MHaes Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 03:49 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 03:47 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  ^liberal Germany is doing OK.

Not really. It is doing better than the rest of Europe, but is on the same path of bankruptcy the USA is on.

Liberal economics simply cannot work. If the govt. wants to tax the rich, the rich will simply move and the govt. will get nothing. If the govt. wants to punish business, they will simply move or shut down.

You can't expect the govt. to make an even playing field. The only even playing field is getting the govt. out of the way so creative people can start their own business and make their own share of the world. Instead we have a govt. that passes more and more regulations and laws that kill off small businesses.

Provide evidence that Germany is on the "same path of bankruptcy" as the US. Simply stating that doesn't make it so, and the burden of proof lies upon you.

Also, no, the rich will not move. Where are they going to move to? Social democracies in the EU? Ha, good one!

Your "tax the rich and they'll move" argument may have merit when we are talking domestic, New York-to-Florida moves, but it holds no water when one applies it to the international sphere.

Simply compare the debt to GDP ratios of the two countries and to make things even worse for Germany is they have nearly the same debt per GDP and don't even have a big military. They are on for a path of self destruction.

You don't think companies and people leave countries when they believe taxes get too high? Despite it happening as we type, such as in France?

Post: #83

(09-13-2013 07:24 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 07:21 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 07:16 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 07:08 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 06:28 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  Leave and go where? Manufacturing jobs are already vanishing as it is. I don't think you understand the labor dynamics in this globalized world. You yourself said they have to pay bottom dollar. Wages and benefits (in the private sector) are being eroded in a race to the bottom. That isn't a left-wing or right-wing talking point but it is the reality.

Before the 1980s and 1990s, there was a fine balance of power between management and labor but in this new global economy, that balance has shifted and managements have all the power over labor.

Edit: I am taking from the perspective of workers in the US and Canada and other Western countries.

Well, if no one else wants to pay them as much as they think they are worth, then why should the govt. jump in and force a company to pay them that much?

Eventually that company will just leave, and instead of making less, they make $0 along with $0 tax revenue.

If they can't find as much as they want doing what they do, then they need to get into another field. I am in IT full time, I have to constantly learn new technologies and new things to keep up. Just the way things are.

Huh? Where did I mention anything about governments forcing companies to pay them?

That's the whole point. The economic pie for labor is shrinking and companies rather pay people next to nothing in developing nations. Before every company decided to outsource production and hire people for as cheap as possible, there was a balance of power that existed between management and labor. There was a expectation that you could work hard and expect fair wages and benefits. Now you are just supposed to be lucky to have a job.

This is unsustainable. If the middle-class keeps on getting destroying, ultimately companies will have no one to buy their products.

The economic pie is shrinking because we have a govt. that is doing everything it can to hurt small and middle sized business to help protect their big corporate friends.

Of course companies would rather pay less for labor that is equally as good. That is how they compete on the global market.

There was a balance of power, but that went out the window as the world became smaller and the economy was no longer just based on our country, but instead it is a global competition. That isn't coming back anytime soon either, this is just a reality. If you use govt. to force these companies to pay more, they will simply employ less, or just move overseas.

The middle class is being destroyed more by our govt. than by manufacturing jobs moving overseas. What should these people do? Go back to school/trade school and learn a career in demand today. Such as IT, Healthcare, or other fields that are growing like crazy.

So you don't think govt. passing laws and regulations that hurt small businesses and middle class businesses and give their large corporate friends less competition so they can bully employees doesn't hurt the middle class?

Explain your stance.

Post: #84

@It is my time, you are talking in extreme absolutes which are not true. Of course, the government is complicit in the destruction of the middle class but they are not more responsible than manufacturing jobs being lost and they are certainly not doing everything they can do to hurt small businesses as MikeCF explained.

Post: #85

(09-13-2013 07:46 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  @It is my time, you are talking in extreme absolutes which are not true. Of course, the government is complicit in the destruction of the middle class but they are not more responsible than manufacturing jobs being lost and they are certainly not doing everything they can do to hurt small businesses as MikeCF explained.

I don't know if the govt. is just this inept and badly run or the strings are being pulled from above by the wealthy elites who own the Federal Reserve to help stop their biggest competition/fear...

A small business coming along like Microsoft to knock off IBM. Or Facebook. Or Twitter. Or Google.

A few sneak through, but prevent as many as possible.

But it is an easy sell to the voters (we want to help the poor by "attacking" the "wealthy" and the only "wealthy" really being hurt are the upper middle class) and it makes the wealthy even wealthier (hence the OP of this thread).

Post: #86

(09-13-2013 04:09 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  I feel like they've sold us out completely. They care only about lining their own pockets and enriching their families. Washington is full of nepotism and lobbyist corruption...

.....

I don't know if we'll see enlightened leadership in our lifetime. It often happens by accident or when you least expect it.

Actually although I am a total pinko liberal, it may be because I am older but I am not that pessimistic.

I'm not trying to be patronizing but it's hard to think in longer time frames when you're under 30. I was young when Kent State and the 60's were happening and was scared society was going to fall apart.

My uneducated but very intuitive father told me that people have ALWAYS thought that and it's true. There's in interesting article in Wikipedia about the panic that surrounded the world in the year 1000. People thought Armageddon was going to come.

Sure you could be in Europe during the Plague, in France or Russia during their revolutions, in Germany when they went nuts, but these were fairly short times with much less "limiting" on the magnitude of crazy moves in society. The rapid feedback in communication will help forestall that type of lunacy, and the ruling classes have MUCH more to lose if total war or revolution comes.

I lived in a very rich tourist area, and the luxury of the upper class America is incredible. Believe me, they do NOT want AT ALL to lose that.

Harvard, sailboats, hookers so gorgeous they are invisible ( look like elite models), exquisite mansions-- but you know the BEST part-- in America they don't even have to be afraid!! I don't think most deca- or centi- millionaires even have bodyguards, or if they do they're mostly unnecessary .

Now what's the point of that? It's that the rich are not really hated in America-- people think "If I could do that I'd do it too. "
And the ultra-rich are actually iiberal. They know their luxury is dependent on a peaceful society.
It seems so much better to be rich in America to me-- how would you feel if you lived in mexico with 50 mill in assets and every time your kids went to school you didn't know if they were going to get kidnapped? That can't compare with the carefree lives of the American rich. They can just buy models. feminism is largely off their radar I imagine.


I saw an article during one of the campaigns that Bush2 was in, and guys with 10 millions were proBish. New Money. Arrogant, sure of themselves and that they could have done that, in, say, the Dominican Republic. They don't need anyone.
Guys with 100 Million were pro-Kerry. Old Money. Smart money that knows you get more flies with honey than with vinegar, and you're incredibly fortunate to be at the apex of a huge substructure of amiable drones.

People who understand the upside-down funnel structure of the economy, and aren't sidetracked and co-opted by distractor issues like gun control or Miley or Librul doctrine, understand what really drives everything-- class privilege preservation; and hate the system that allows it.

But I'm actually glad that i haven't heard much about "follow the limos home" because I don't want to be around when something like the French or Russian Revolution happens. It made life worse for years or decades.

The Vampire Squid Matrix Economy is basically legalized theft, but it's fairly transparent if you just read one or two articles about wealth distribution and notice NOTHING EVER is on media about wealth distribution. You have to go search it. No time. Everuyone's watching Miley. Mr. 1/10 of 1% buys a bunch of a apartment buildings and raises the rent. Uses that money and buys a bunch more. Repeat. No one feels like they are really being victimized be cause it a frog-being-boiled scenario and it's within the rules. And Miley is dancing in front of the frog.

So wherre is the Answer, I know Exactly.

The Latina vote. I don't know how, but they know these crooks when they see them. There are already too many to kick out of the country.

They somehow know the "Conservatives" ( an insult to the word when guys like Eisenhour were actual human beings-- there is nothing "conserved" when invading Iraq for the tidy sum borrowed by the middle class of six trillion? God knows how much...funneled to Halliburton Bro's) for what they are.

They somehow know the "Conservatives" in Congress get so in heat they could suck a battleship through a garden hose if you funnel them enough campaign money from the Battleship Company.

They're going to get rid of the 1% lackeys, it's just a question of a few decades. The lickspittles cannot get an adequate narrative to suppress the Latino intuition for whose ass they are eating out.

People are becoming media-wiser.

The technique of the ruling class:

1) Declare an emergency through their almost total stranglehold on the mass media.
2) Request the money to "handle it."
3) Pocket the money borrowed against the future taxes of the middle class.
4) Laugh, laugh, laugh. At you.

Example of this working: Iraq.

Example of this Not Working: Wall St trying to get its blood funnel into the Social Security money. Social Security works so perfectly it's amazing. Over 99% of the money coming in goes out to recipients. It reduced elderly poverty something like 80%!!

The TRIED to get their hands on that money. Don't you trust Goldman Sacks, I mean Goldman Sachs, to honestly preserve your parents retirement money? Sure you do.

If you don't understand how totally corrupt Wall St is look at the Savings and Loan scandal from the 1980's. It was exactly like the bailouts of late oughts. Subsidies for those that don't need them. Bush's brother cashed in there.

People are waking up, specifically both young people and Mexican immigrants both of whom are growing in power and vote somewhat anti-Matrix. It takes much longer than one or two election cycles. You need to think in 50 year spans in politics not 5-10, like how it got better for Black people in the south. I'd way rather be Black in the South in 1980 than 1930.

Post: #87

This thread made me think of something which ties it right back into sexual politics. I would guess this has might have been discussed previously here, but consider this: If you are the ruling elite of a country and your economy is producing sub-optimal growth for the bulk of your populace, it is in your interest to promote a culture of (female) promiscuity, as a sort of safety valve. Why? Well, take the example of a country like Egypt. The economy is in the tank, there is very high unemployment, and young guys can't get jobs. Unike the US/Europe, the conservative culture also strongly proscribes sex outside of marriage. As a result, there are a lot of thirsty young dudes who can't afford to get married for the purpose of having (sanctioned) sex. This is an extremely destabilizing situation, as it creates a large population of angry young men.

Post: #88

I totally agree with Iknowexactly's post in #86. Our only hope is demographic change.

Post: #89

(09-14-2013 12:11 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  I totally agree with Iknowexactly's post in #86. Our only hope is demographic change.

I'm a little confused by his post. He is correct in most the ultra wealthy want liberal economic policies, because they make the rich even richer and the middle class poorer (such as in Europe).

But I am not sure why he thinks having more Hispanics in the USA would make the economic system better automatically. He equates it to Mexico where people with money even have to watch their backs because the poor people don't allow for them to live so nicely. I suppose this is true, though one of the world's richest men lives in Mexico and I doubt he has such worries.

But if that is his point, I would far rather be poor in the USA today than what is considered middle class in Mexico, so I am not in favor of having their system in the least.

Post: #90

(09-14-2013 01:36 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  I'm not trying to be patronizing but it's hard to think in longer time frames when you're under 30. I was young when Kent State and the 60's were happening and was scared society was going to fall apart.

My uneducated but very intuitive father told me that people have ALWAYS thought that and it's true.

The thing I don't like about the "the world is going to hell in a handbasket" crowd is that a lot of those people vote to make the rich richer and themselves poorer, since, in their minds, the world is going to end soon, so they do not think about the long-term consequences of their vote.

(09-14-2013 01:36 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  So where is the Answer, I know Exactly.

The Latina vote. I don't know how, but they know these crooks when they see them. There are already too many to kick out of the country.

They somehow know the "Conservatives" ( an insult to the word when guys like Eisenhower were actual human beings-- there is nothing "conserved" when invading Iraq for the tidy sum borrowed by the middle class of six trillion? God knows how much...funneled to Halliburton Bro's) for what they are.

People in the Republican party who can see what is really happening are really scared. They saw what happened in California; while the Republican party had a brief surge here pandering to racists, the lost the entire Latina vote as a consequence, and today have no power in state level politics.

Conservatives with a head on their shoulder cringe whenever Steve King (not the author, who knows that making the rich richer is a really bad idea) opens his big mouth.

There is speculation that Texas will become a blue state soon because of its rapidly increasing Latino population. When that happens, it will be impossible to put a Republican in the White House.

I do not think that Latinos are going to suddenly vote Republican even if they kick the Steve Kings of their party to the curve and fully embrace immigration reform. While Latinos do have the traditional values and honor marriage and faith in God, their value system is not compatible with the Republican god that allows them to screw over the poor in the name of greed.

Things are going to get better. Obamacare will kick in next year, so people will no longer go bankrupt getting basic life-saving medical care. I am guessing we will have 1950s style prosperity again by the 2020s or 2030s, once the Republican party goes the way of the Whigs, and the United States joins the rest of the first world in having a tax structure that makes a large middle class possible.

Post: #91

"People in the Republican party who can see what is really happening are really scared. They saw what happened in California; while the Republican party had a brief surge here pandering to racists, the lost the entire Latina vote as a consequence, and today have no power in state level politics. "

I would certainly not pound my chest about the complete economic mess and future disaster that waits California.

Post: #92

It's people like you who vote in shitlibs like Obama who are sinking this country fast. No offense, but you're brainwashed. Iknowexactly is especially damaged in the head, at least politically.

ANYONE WHO VOTES FOR EITHER OF THE MAJOR PARTIES IS MAKING A HUGE MISTAKE. That's all.

(09-14-2013 01:39 PM)placer Wrote:  

(09-14-2013 01:36 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  So where is the Answer, I know Exactly.

The Latina vote. I don't know how, but they know these crooks when they see them. There are already too many to kick out of the country.

They somehow know the "Conservatives" ( an insult to the word when guys like Eisenhower were actual human beings-- there is nothing "conserved" when invading Iraq for the tidy sum borrowed by the middle class of six trillion? God knows how much...funneled to Halliburton Bro's) for what they are.

People in the Republican party who can see what is really happening are really scared. They saw what happened in California; while the Republican party had a brief surge here pandering to racists, the lost the entire Latina vote as a consequence, and today have no power in state level politics.

California has become a dump. Most of the members on this board who live in Cali are abandoning ship. G manifesto, MikeCF, etc.

If anything, it was the ILLEGAL Latino vote which has destroyed that place. (the ones who came in illegally, had millions of kids who could vote, and voted in a bunch of communists)

I have no beef with legal aliens.

Quote:Conservatives with a head on their shoulder cringe whenever Steve King (not the author, who knows that making the rich richer is a really bad idea) opens his big mouth.

There is speculation that Texas will become a blue state soon because of its rapidly increasing Latino population. When that happens, it will be impossible to put a Republican in the White House.

Problem with this analysis is that it assume Latinos will stay democrat. A lot of latino's hate shit like fag marriage and economic redistribution, and are moving to the republican side. Especially as many well to do Latino's become wealthy, they are taking over parts of the Republican party.

As you've mentioned, the republicans are going to need the latino vote in order to compete.

Quote:I do not think that Latinos are going to suddenly vote Republican even if they kick the Steve Kings of their party to the curve and fully embrace immigration reform. While Latinos do have the traditional values and honor marriage and faith in God, their value system is not compatible with the Republican god that allows them to screw over the poor in the name of greed.

Things are going to get better. Obamacare will kick in next year, so people will no longer go bankrupt getting basic life-saving medical care. I am guessing we will have 1950s style prosperity again by the 2020s or 2030s, once the Republican party goes the way of the Whigs, and the United States joins the rest of the first world in having a tax structure that makes a large middle class possible.

By 2020 is when this depression will become fully evident. By 2030 people will be clamoring for real political change.

MAYBE by 2040 there will be prosperity again in America, but not if people keep electing democrats

Post: #93

@Samseau

"It's people like you who vote in shitlibs like Obama who are sinking this country fast. No offense, but you're brainwashed. Iknowexactly is especially damaged in the head, at least politically."

I don't get it at all. The entire reason this forum exists is due to our (men's) frustrations with an increasingly anti-male/anti-family system pushed forward by feminists. Who are the feminists? Hard core socialist/leftists. Liberalism does not exist without feminism and feminism does not exist without liberalism.

And then these guys, frustrated with this system enough to come to this great forum, go out and vote for more leftist feminist socialism.

Post: #94

(09-13-2013 04:13 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  Why would a business owner work 90 hour weeks to start a business and hire other people if they cannot keep their profits? Why not move some place that will allow them to do so?

Many of them find it advantageous to set up shop in a country where public funding has created an infrastructure capable of supporting their business and a legal system capable of protecting it.

The biggest knock on the libertarian/conservative viewpoint is that they fail to distinguish between the regulations and fiscal outflows that support what they take for granted and those they consider superfluous. Not that the latter don't exist.

Post: #95

(09-14-2013 03:23 PM)lurker Wrote:  

(09-13-2013 04:13 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  Why would a business owner work 90 hour weeks to start a business and hire other people if they cannot keep their profits? Why not move some place that will allow them to do so?

Many of them find it advantageous to set up shop in a country where public funding has created an infrastructure capable of supporting their business and a legal system capable of protecting it.

The biggest knock on the libertarian/conservative viewpoint is that they fail to distinguish between the regulations and fiscal outflows that support what they take for granted and those they consider superfluous. Not that the latter don't exist.

I don't think you are saying that I just take our great infrastructure for granted, because I certainly do not.

There must be a govt. body to regulate these things. But within reason.

Reason = Eisenhower's Interstate project.

Unreasonable = The WV road to no where being built for 25 years and is only being built to provide Democrat voter jobs. Or a 1,200 page healthcare bill that no one understands and is causing companies to lay people off and cut hours. So now the average American is working for more hours for less money per inflation, year after year for the last 5 years.

But when the president gets up there and smirks and laughs and says "business owners didn't build that" when in fact the taxes raised by these small businesses DID build that...

And then he gets re-elected.

I know this country is in DEEP trouble and I am liquidating and preparing.