Post: #76

Its true though, guys who teach are usually better at figuring out sticking points, or teaching the mindsets and materials. Remember that Roosh also did PUA coaching, which I'm sure is worth it.

IMO having someone explain it is of big value.

The best players I know suck at explaining their game, or helping out a newbie. A pickup coach who does it for a living can be very helpful.

Post: #77

(10-07-2013 01:40 PM)All or Nothing Wrote:  I used to go on Attraction forums two years ago. Back then, he was one of maybe 3 legit people on there.

If I remember correctly, he was a close friend of Assanova back then and they would go out together all the time.

I have a feeling if TrueStory sticks around here, he will have a lot to add to this forum.

*Edit: Because his advice helped me way back when, I'll link you guys to one of his big posts:

http://www.theattractionforums.com/best-...nance.html

It's 4 years old, but I feel that it represents him well.

Rep points are far from the end-all-be-all and Mixx showed how they can corrupt a person's soul.

But you've been here for two years.

And you have one? Really...just one? You don't have any useful info to share with the rest of the guys?

Why argue with me and defend some guy who just shit talked the forum? Why not figure out a way to help other guys out?

"Freely ye have received, freely give."

Post: #78

(10-06-2013 09:35 PM)scotian Wrote:  We corresponded later and he told me that I'm "poorly socially calibrated", whatever the fuck that means, I've met quite a few RVF members and I don't think any would describe me as such.

PUAs are con men. They make it seem like you are wrong or that you don't understand what you're seeing.

"You almost had her, then you fucked it up!"

Or if he screws up, he'll say he did not actually screw up. You just didn't know what you saw.

These guys the same as PUAs and PUA students:

Post: #79

tetron, can you be our guiding light that we look to for guidance and enlightenment?

Post: #80

(10-07-2013 09:26 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(10-07-2013 01:40 PM)All or Nothing Wrote:  I used to go on Attraction forums two years ago. Back then, he was one of maybe 3 legit people on there.

If I remember correctly, he was a close friend of Assanova back then and they would go out together all the time.

I have a feeling if TrueStory sticks around here, he will have a lot to add to this forum.

*Edit: Because his advice helped me way back when, I'll link you guys to one of his big posts:

http://www.theattractionforums.com/best-...nance.html

It's 4 years old, but I feel that it represents him well.

Rep points are far from the end-all-be-all and Mixx showed how they can corrupt a person's soul.

But you've been here for two years.

And you have one? Really...just one? You don't have any useful info to share with the rest of the guys?

Why argue with me and defend some guy who just shit talked the forum? Why not figure out a way to help other guys out?

"Freely ye have received, freely give."

Yeah, I shit talk your reliance on rep points for credibility and had a good reason for doing that. I still think the rep point system is bogus from a social community stand point of view. Such system has high tendency to be abused. I know this from experience. I have ran several forums for work, pleasure, and for the "community" (Ohio Lair, Midwest Lair), as well as actively moderated some large forums like TAF.

But unfortunately is the best we have and I cannot offer a better solution for relatively judging reputation of forums members. While, some professionals on social communities would even say that rep system can create false sense of "trust" in members otherwise should not be trusted. I am not so certain about that, but it's a theory.

Tech shit aside, here is what I addressed in regards to the on-going discussion, and wanted to summarize why I think this way, perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly. Keep in mind, I've been following Roosh's formums for a while, and aware of its culture and some notable members. I am also not a new-comer to the community either.

Rep points - back to this again, I know. I give people reps when I see that his idea (post) would be helpful to OP. Unfortunately, members tend to treat rep system similarly to a facebook "like" concept and simply "oh me too" the shit out of that button. IF everyone gave constructive reps for good advice, I would be less apprehensive about the system. I am neither defending it nor against it. I am stating what I've experienced.

Number of posts - I simply do not see how most of you find time to spend days on this forum. Unless you're moderator, author, administrator, or tightly involved with community (organizer, blogger, lair-admin, etc.) ... it's hard to allocate so much time to writing on the game and this subject in general. However, I do write on this and I do post actively, when not busy.

Meeting up with real people - that's the original point and always has been. I am currently meeting couple guys in Kharkov, UA because of RVF. I thinks this is the greatest benefit of the communities like this.

Pickup Artists - I immediately ignore everything from a person who uses blanket statements like "all ____ are ____". That's garbage. That's what feminists use, "all man are scum". No. Not all. Statistically impossible. Whether "all" is implied or explicitly stated, it's unfair to bunch everyone in the umbrella category under one identifier like this.

Like I said, there are legitimate guys in the field, some are better at coaching, some are better at game. However as a student looking for a great teacher - an instructor with a great game but without any coaching skills is as useful as instructor with shitty game and great teaching abilities.

Of course, "pickup" is a business and it will have a level of hype-ness to it, And as a entrepreneur myself, I respect their craft. Because this field is getting over saturated, grabbing attention of potential customer requires some level of over-exaggeration. You can blame yourself as a "magic pill" society that needs instant gratification and success (5 minute abs, 3 day diet, 4 hour work week, 2 day pickup mastery, and so on). You are marketed product you're most likely to buy in a way you are most likely to respond. If it didn't work it wouldn't exist. What I like to call "herding the sheep".

You, as an decision capable adult, can read reviews, talk to previous students, etc. A good company will usually offer money-back-guarantee. Unfortunately they are all "self proclaimed" gurus and there isn't a central PUA certification system. This isn't fucking Microsoft.

Community (and it seems like a lot of guys here have trickled in from the "mainstream" boards) has unreasonable expectation of what it means to be "good with women". Additionally, this impacts overall perspective of what a great coach should be like. Community has tendency to overhype and over idolize well promoted gurus (like Mystery, Nick Savoy, Tyler Durden, and so on). Guys, I do have news for you. They also get blown out, run shitty sets, can be in tired mood, have bad showmanship in front of the student, or slack at times.

You think you have approach anxiety and social pressure? Now put yourself in the shoes of those guys, not only they are approaching an attractive woman in mixed set, they are also being watched by his students, possibly his vid will be shared on YouTube, and on top of that there is a reputation to protect, because, thousands of guys will discuss how "his set was fat", "he was horrible", "he got blown out", etc.

As I said, even the greatest coaches (or naturals) get rejected. Anyone who denies this, denies the foundation of game.

I like Roosh, even though I haven't personally met him, because of what he writes and how he perceives the game. His attitude towards american women really clicked with my own experience. His thoughts ring well in my mind. However, he could (not saying he is) be not the greatest teacher in one-on-one, and it does not matter, I respect the guy and will gladly learn what I can from his experience. We are not ideal and perfect, and you learn what you can from who you can.

I know guys that took at least 5 bootcamps with various instructors and they still struggle with women and still have approach anxiety. I also have friends who got amazingly good, after a free seminar, but through dedication and effort in the field. As I said above, taking training isn't means to an end, but more of a guidance into the right direction. You will not wakeup pickup master after a weekend bootcamp. Still have to clock in your hours and do homework..

Maybe if we would stop looking for holes in other people's game and if we can slow down on shit-talk about their pickup skills, maybe if we would look at what can be learned from that person, we wouldn't have this thread altogether.

This "celebrity gossip" tendency is predominant to the female circles, not in male ones. This shit chicken gobble just pisses me off "oh did you see that ugly girl a famous-pickup-artist is with? damn" and "oh look, so and so gets blown out, his game must be week, chirp, chirp, chirp, chirp", fucking The View tv show up in here.


Come on, really?

Post: #81

(10-07-2013 09:26 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(10-07-2013 01:40 PM)All or Nothing Wrote:  I used to go on Attraction forums two years ago. Back then, he was one of maybe 3 legit people on there.

If I remember correctly, he was a close friend of Assanova back then and they would go out together all the time.

I have a feeling if TrueStory sticks around here, he will have a lot to add to this forum.

*Edit: Because his advice helped me way back when, I'll link you guys to one of his big posts:

http://www.theattractionforums.com/best-...nance.html

It's 4 years old, but I feel that it represents him well.

Rep points are far from the end-all-be-all and Mixx showed how they can corrupt a person's soul.

But you've been here for two years.

And you have one? Really...just one? You don't have any useful info to share with the rest of the guys?

Why argue with me and defend some guy who just shit talked the forum? Why not figure out a way to help other guys out?

"Freely ye have received, freely give."

BTW, my entire post was not directed at you. You just happened to be quoted there.

Post: #82

@TrueStory- This isn't a community you're used to. Why don't you take some time and cruise this thread:

/thread-11992.html

It might help your longevity here.

Post: #83

(10-08-2013 06:23 AM)TrueStory Wrote:  <snip>

Your response was 15 paragraphs (or so, I got bored and stopped counting). If you are familiar with the forum culture, what part of, "We hang out on weekends together" did you miss?

I ended up sleeping the day away after a hard leg day but had texts from three different forum guys last weekend to hang.

Some guys went to that polo match in L.A.

I mean, this forum is different in that if you are a liar it will be exposed pretty quickly.

If you say you lift, well, guys are going to see in the flesh whether you look the part.

If your girlfriend is busted, guys are going to see that. If you're not pulling, it will be obvious.

I question whether you are familiar with forum culture since you posted a huge essay that was extremely tone deaf and totally glossed over my point.

Good luck, but again, if a guy has been here for 2 years and has 1 rep point, he's obviously not out and not "walking the walk." That's just a fact.

Post: #84

That's the part of the reason I came to RVF, because, I got tired of guys not wanting to meet in real life. Unfortunately, I didn't come here when I was in US, so I am trying to meetup with guys in Ukraine now. When I come back, hopefully, I'll meet up with some guys from Miami.

I told you, I write a lot, when I do reply. I hope what you're saying is true and I'll get to meet a lot of you.

Post: #85

I foresee a new breed of troll. As the PUA boards wind down, they'll be looking for another online venue to leech on. Sure, some will land here to learn and participate, but I see the "leadership" coming over to disrupt and use the forum to sell their failed ideas or launch more fuzzy hat campaigns. And I guarantee they will be the ones NOT to meetup with other members for fear of getting called out.

Post: #86

TS, think about why you have so much personal investment in RSD when you're not part of the business (I am assuming that you're not). It's akin to various comment wars on other forums of Apple vs. Windows or AT&T vs. Verizon. None of the participants have any financial stake in the company yet they will rabidly defend the flag they've picked.

Post: #87

(10-08-2013 07:23 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  I foresee a new breed of troll. As the PUA boards wind down, they'll be looking for another online venue to leech on. Sure, some will land here to learn and participate, but I see the "leadership" coming over to disrupt and use the forum to sell their failed ideas or launch more fuzzy hat campaigns. And I guarantee they will be the ones NOT to meetup with other members for fear of getting called out.

We are like radical small government libertarians.

We believe in decentralization. We don't need a "master PUA" to rule us or tell us how to go out or show us what to do.

We hang out in small groups.

Decentralized government.

PUAs are like Obama and other big government advocates. They hate the fact that we can do something without them and they'll do everything possible to bring us back under their thumb.

Post: #88

(10-08-2013 07:24 AM)Menace Wrote:  TS, think about why you have so much personal investment in RSD when you're not part of the business (I am assuming that you're not). It's akin to various comment wars on other forums of Apple vs. Windows or AT&T vs. Verizon. None of the participants have any financial stake in the company yet they will rabidly defend the flag they've picked.

no i am not benefiting from any company. i just happen to like what owen teaches that's all.

Of course we defend the flags we picked. That's a normal human nature. Since original topic was "experience with professional pickup coaches in action" i described my experience with rsd. I also am good friend of Assanova and was at some point very active in ZenMack (player supereme) forums before it turned into a conspiracy theory portal.

Regarding master pua and central authority, I left the TAF forums because of that. Actually, I left the community for several years because of that.

any community is bound to become big if it delivers value to its members, so yeah, once everyone will begin departing bigger forums and coming here you'll have a lot of people like me coming from a different perspective and culture. Embrace it, because, it'll take them some time to unlearned bad habits. They are not here to troll, even if it might seem like it at first. [/quote]

Post: #89

(10-08-2013 07:28 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(10-08-2013 07:23 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  I foresee a new breed of troll. As the PUA boards wind down, they'll be looking for another online venue to leech on. Sure, some will land here to learn and participate, but I see the "leadership" coming over to disrupt and use the forum to sell their failed ideas or launch more fuzzy hat campaigns. And I guarantee they will be the ones NOT to meetup with other members for fear of getting called out.

We are like radical small government libertarians.

We believe in decentralization. We don't need a "master PUA" to rule us or tell us how to go out or show us what to do.

We hang out in small groups.

Decentralized government.

PUAs are like Obama and other big government advocates. They hate the fact that we can do something without them and they'll do everything possible to bring us back under their thumb.

I look forward to some of the MPUA's get together with us and bestow knowledge. My leg got broke cause my big fuzzy hat slid over my eyes and I lost balance in my 10" platform boots. I need a peacocking bootcamp.

But yeah, there's some fucking Paul Revere level guys here, so the interactions will be interesting.

Post: #90

(10-07-2013 02:02 PM)terron Wrote:  

(10-07-2013 04:05 AM)Soma Wrote:  

(10-07-2013 03:44 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  One of my embarrassing secrets is that I could watch videos of Vince Kelvin all day. It's like a reality tv train wreck and it just draws me in. Maybe it's the hair?

The dizzy heights of PUA success:

(Actually used as marketing material on his page.)

Wow! You know, this reminds me of a pic of Mystery pushing a baby carriage with his girlfriend. The girl looks like a 3. When i saw that pic I was completely shocked and I almost spit out my water. Ok Mystery, where are your 9s and 10s from the Playboy Mansion? ...Idiot. Check out the pic everyone:

It seems like she recently spat out a baby (when the photo was taken) as she's carrying some extra fat.

Also with make up, high heels and a nice dress, she would look pretty good.

Most girls look average once you take off their heels, dress and make up. (at least comparatively to when they're done up).

Finding that real genuine natural beauty is tough.

Mystery is good, no doubting it and even if he wasn't who should care, it's because of him and what he's done that we have Game as it is today.

Post: #91

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mRV5c48ZnM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-ZG014y3Fw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSA4W7HY6eY

I've done street stops in the last 2 locations too

Post: #92

Here's a buff Asian dude that coaches:

http://squattincassanova.blogspot.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/SquattinCass...ture=watch

Random find.

Post: #93

I know this is a really late reply.

Mike, I don't want to argue with you, so I will just explain.

(10-07-2013 09:26 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Why argue with me and defend some guy who just shit talked the forum?

I defended TrueStory because he was the first guy I ever got advice from that helped me actually start to improve.

I just wanted to help the guy because he helped me so long ago. Looks like I made things worse rather than helping him.

(10-08-2013 07:17 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  Good luck, but again, if a guy has been here for 2 years and has 1 rep point, he's obviously not out and not "walking the walk." That's just a fact.

This is not true. Everyone on here comes from a different place in their lives.

I have been "walking the walk" from the beginning. The caveat to this is when I started three years ago, I started from a very low point.

The reason why I have not given very much advice while I have been here is that until January of this year, my success rate was 0%. That is not for lack of trying, I was just that bad.

For some reason, things have really come together this year. I have have dated and bedded a few girls this year (nothing too impressive).

Over summer, I made a legitimate effort to start cold approaching during the day time. I would go out to the streets and coffee shops 6 days a week for 5 hours a day pushing myself to approach. I only ended up approaching about 150 women over summer because I still have a lingering level of social anxiety holding me back, but 150 is better than nothing.

Even though I don't have as much free time, the habits have carried over into the school year, and I have continued to approach girls.

(10-07-2013 09:26 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  You don't have any useful info to share with the rest of the guys?

I have shared some useful info this year. Albeit, it has only been a little bit.

You are the third guy on here in the past couple months who has asked me to contribute more, so I guess it is time for me to start giving back.

I don't know what I have to contribute to this forum, but I will start contributing more and figure it out along the way.

Post: #94

I bumped into Tom toreo from that london daygame blueprint group. I didn't exactly see him try and pickup anyone but had a chinwag.
He was pretty cool dude, claimed to have banged a girl in the bushes of the czech national museum. His face had a Franck Ribery quality to it. He spoke in terms of the lingo of pua on the internet, which sounds a bit unnatural in normal conversation. He had never heard of this website

Post: #95

(09-13-2013 11:07 AM)bojangles Wrote:  Mehow and Vince Kelvin are fucking gays. Mehow has no game but gay game

I'm pretty sure that Vince Kelvin has some major issues, or maybe he had some when I saw him in 2007. I am talking drugs or something like that.

Post: #96

I find it funny that when I did a google search for day game pick up girls, the most appropriate looking result turned out to be from the very city I am living in: downtown Toronto! I clicked on this video demonstrating day and and noticed that the street looked familiar, and turned out to be Yonge street in the area I am living!

It was from this guys youtube: willy beck - Toronto





This was in front of the Eaton Centre and near Bloor and Yonge.

Post: #97

(09-13-2013 12:50 PM)Vicious Wrote:  Watched Ross Jeffries chat up a bartender at the 57th St Holiday Inn in New York City once. It was very conversational but he managed to segue well into his staple themes.

I haven't seen Ross Jeffries in action. I did see him with his girl friend back in 2008. He was getting up there in years and had a Swedish girl friend in her early 20's. He definitely was doing well for himself, as she was at least 20 years his junior.

Finally, there is something else I always share about Ross Jeffries. I have NEVER met anyone who loved his parents more than Ross.

Post: #98

I took a 'lovesystems' (formerly mystery method) bootcamp in 2007 for $900. I was a junior in college wanting a leg up, I was really pissed off about a situation with a girl. I got laid but not with the higher end girls I wanted.

I saw Tenmagnet, Cajun, and Braddock in action. They were all excellent with women.

Tenmagnet walked up to 2 girls with their boyfriends and got the girls laughing, had his arm around one of them, teasing them etc while their dates watched. Got the girls laughing and feeling his vibe, dude was fearless.
Obviously they don't pull every time but in terms of cold approach they are deadly. Definitely showed the power of frame and belief, even though Cajun and tenmagnet were small dudes I never saw another guy step to them despite their intrusive behavior.

They are redpill but haven't quite taken the leap RVFers have in terms of understanding how socialist policies / modern conveniences have made game more difficult. Even that was back before instagram, twitter, etc that have only made girls even bitchier.

They understand the primal drives that create attraction but tenmagnet in particular was a Toronto communist who maybe can't see the bigger picture. Nonetheless they were great to learn from.

Doing a lot of approaches when younger is good but girls have become bitchier even since 2007 so I'm glad I did it then, as I think going to American bars and approaching a lot of girls is a complete waste of time now.

Post: #99

(02-23-2017 08:49 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  socialist policies / modern conveniences have made game more difficult. Even that was back before instagram, twitter, etc that have only made girls even bitchier.

Doing a lot of approaches when younger is good but girls have become bitchier even since 2007 so I'm glad I did it then, as I think going to American bars and approaching a lot of girls is a complete waste of time now.

Is it really that bad? How do people get laid? Just by like travellig to the Philippines or through social circle or something? People here seem to mainly get laid on tinder from what I see - Do you think that's a better route than cold approach nowadays?

Post: #100

^^ Nah people still go to bars and get laid, I'm just saying the rate of return compared to what you put in, and the diminishing quality you can consistently get, makes it exhausting.

Don't get me wrong, I think doing a bunch of cold approaches is essential to your game and social life as a man, even in a relationship, but for me personally I don't care anymore as I have a lot of other things going on. When I was 18-25 I would game all the time, now I have to be in the mood to even give a shit. Pussy isn't worth that effort any more to me. IMO the vast majority of relationships you see in America are based on long-existing social circles through school or whatever.

The skill to seduce young women whom you have 0 social connections with is quite tricky and requires a shitload of effort, while making it look like you don't give a shit.

That's why its so much easier to get laid at house parties as opposed to bars. Having some social proof makes them drop their bitchiness significantly. After I did a shitload of cold approaches I got very good at social circle game. But women need some sort of 'marker' of your social validation (be it friends, or status) for them to feel comfortable fucking you.