Post: #1

Hey, lately I have been reading a lot of books on pick-up. Some pick-up artist say, just approach the girl, some say approach the group because if her friends don't enjoy you/like you, the target will ditch you.

I don't remember what Roosh recommends in Bang. It was couple of weeks back but I have huge anxiety approaching groups of girls. I'm good looking guy but introverted and I have problems approaching groups of girls.

Today I was in the disco, drinking my drink at the bar, just enjoying the music, making light dance moves. Group of four girls make eye contact with me from across the room, talk to each other and then walk all the way over to order drinks where I was standing. Two were very hot of the four. One blonde, she looked like Britney Spears and one was Brunette who was also very hot. I would rate them 8-9. When they arrived at the bar, the brunette made eyecontact for 3 seconds plus smile. Additionally she looked my direction every 15 seconds for 15 minutes. The blonde one who wasn't facing me, put her body against me the whole time but didn't make eye contact.

At this moment I was thinking, should I just choose easy target and go for brunette, or go for blonde one. I'm totally socially akward guy so I didn't want to mess this up. I was drunk and I went to take a leak, girls were gone. I had 15 minutes at the bar to talk to them.. a good 5 minutes the blonde one was leaning into me. I'm such a moron.

What should I have done? Just approached the girl I wanted, the brunette one who was facing me, or should I approached the whole group? And should I have introduced myself to the whole group? How do you guys do this?

I'm really angry at myself for messing this up. I had 3 other occasions tonight were I fucked it up too. This is really a choke point for my progress. I have no trouble having a conversation with one girl, but when it comes down to group of girls. The social group dynamic totally messes up my game.

Post: #2

Hey man.

First of all, don't be angry at yourself for messing anything up ever. The world is your pick up lab. The more you fuck up, the more improvements you will see. Accept that you will screw up with tons and tons of amazing women - and it sucks, but it is part of honing your skill set for EVEN MORE fantastic girls you will meet.

Second, say something. You said you are socially awkward and so you didn't want to mess it up, but you need to accept that if you are socially awkward you are going to mess up a lot. And by messing you you will get WAY better. But if you stand back and decide that you must make the absolute perfect approach and you can't mess up and everything has to go perfectly, well then you are just setting yourself up for failure. Instead, just commit to saying something and be proud of yourself for doing it. It doesn't matter how they respond. Just say something. You will be one approach closer to being a socially intelligent man.

Third, stop reading so much pick up literature. If you are reading so much that you can't remember what to do at all, then you are in trouble. The whole point of committing to a single resource is that you will know that author's viewpoint on it. Roosh says to go after single girls and that happens to be great advice - especially if you are still socially awkward and don't have a lot of approaches/notches under your belt yet. So aim to approach girls that are by themselves...but if you see a group of girls and they are eyeing you. Just say something. The worst case scenario is they reject you.

Hope this helps.

Post: #3

(09-07-2013 07:20 PM)Zampano Wrote:  Hey man.

First of all, don't be angry at yourself for messing anything up ever. The world is your pick up lab. The more you fuck up, the more improvements you will see. Accept that you will screw up with tons and tons of amazing women - and it sucks, but it is part of honing your skill set for EVEN MORE fantastic girls you will meet.

Second, say something. You said you are socially awkward and so you didn't want to mess it up, but you need to accept that if you are socially awkward you are going to mess up a lot. And by messing you you will get WAY better. But if you stand back and decide that you must make the absolute perfect approach and you can't mess up and everything has to go perfectly, well then you are just setting yourself up for failure. Instead, just commit to saying something and be proud of yourself for doing it. It doesn't matter how they respond. Just say something. You will be one approach closer to being a socially intelligent man.

Third, stop reading so much pick up literature. If you are reading so much that you can't remember what to do at all, then you are in trouble. The whole point of committing to a single resource is that you will know that author's viewpoint on it. Roosh says to go after single girls and that happens to be great advice - especially if you are still socially awkward and don't have a lot of approaches/notches under your belt yet. So aim to approach girls that are by themselves...but if you see a group of girls and they are eyeing you. Just say something. The worst case scenario is they reject you.

Hope this helps.

Hey, thanks a lot for the feedback, I'm still a little drunk, that might influence my train of thought at the moment. I don't care if I messed it up. I'm angry because I didn't even try to approach them. But about Roosh advice, he says to approach single women? All women I see are in groups. So what is the best way to approach group of girls? I missed so many opportunities to approach I girl who shows interest but I don't know how to work a group of girls.

Post: #4

I'm so stuck in my own daygaming thoughts I didn't even think about night.

At night just say/shout, "You guys look like you're having fun." or "You look like you're having WAY too much fun." Or some other variation. They all work very well.

Post: #5

(09-07-2013 07:37 PM)Zampano Wrote:  I'm so stuck in my own daygaming thoughts I didn't even think about night.

At night just say/shout, "You guys look like you're having fun." or "You look like you're having WAY too much fun." Or some other variation. They all work very well.

But in a night club, only the girl you choose to shout in her ear will know what you said.

I don't have trouble with the approach and delivering the line. I can think of multple lines I can use....

The trouble which I have is after I approached the girl, do I introduce myself to her friends right away, make small talk first or introduce? if I do, that would look kind of weird since I have to jump from the ear from one girl to the other to talk to them all.

Post: #6

I would decide which of your pick up guides you like the most, and then consult it. Different guys will recommend different ways of handling group dynamics.

Post: #7

(09-07-2013 08:13 PM)Zampano Wrote:  I would decide which of your pick up guides you like the most, and then consult it. Different guys will recommend different ways of handling group dynamics.

I think you didn't get the memo I don't know how to work a group. The books I read don't explain how to work a group in detail.

Post: #8

KISS (keep it simple stupid)

Open the group with a "Whoa you guys are crazy!"

HBs:_Huh?

You: The energy level. It's killing me. You need to get a hold of that enthusiasm.

Convo begins

Post: #9

There's a split in the schools of thought here.

You should definitely read up on the mystery method/love drop classic Pick Up stuff - cause they talk a lot about group approaches.

Groups are tough.
Groups require you to perform a bit, possibly entertain.

If you have demonstrable and evident clout, the dynamic swaps.

A group of girls is submissive to the bouncer, dj, bartender, not to some chode with a table in VIP or much less some mook holding the wall.

The Sequence

1. the passive opener- say something loud to someone else, and hope they chime in. - this is hard to do well.

2. active opener - there are dozens of resources out there, just pick something and polish it.

3. the transition from opener to meeting
- give them nick names, visual ones. Blonde, Brunie, tweedle dee and tweedle dum

4. establish how they know each other

5. play them off of each other
- who's the instigator
- who's the liar
- who's the bruiser

Girls love to talk about themselves, but they need to talk about themselves TO YOU. Otherwise, they'll talk amongst themselves and box you out of the convo.

You need questions, gambits, stories, et cetera that you emphasize and lead them to - so you remain the center of the convo.

6. The isolate

Now if you've got them all talking and interacting, one of them may choose you.

And it might be the wrong one.

You've got to pick one, and then isolate her from the group.

"you're nice, you're nice, you're nice, you're bad - I need to talk to you"

- smoke break
- you go dance, we'll get drinks

whatever you need to do

7. When you isolate - game as usual
- establish the driving/logistics
- get as much kino and rapport in as possible
- get the digits, kiss, sneaky club bathroom bj

Whatever you possibly can

.....

Now when you have serious game, you can call in your buddies to help out and pair off.

Next level is "being the party" - so you bounce the squadron to the next spot, and then to the after party....

WIA

Post: #10

(09-07-2013 07:09 PM)Videl Wrote:  Group of four girls make eye contact with me from across the room..

first chance to break the ice. lock eyes. wave at them or smile or raise a glass. they reciprocate. you go in. warm approach.

(09-07-2013 07:09 PM)Videl Wrote:  ... talk to each other and then walk all the way over to order drinks where I was standing. Two were very hot of the four. One blonde, she looked like Britney Spears and one was Brunette who was also very hot. I would rate them 8-9. When they arrived at the bar, the brunette made eyecontact for 3 seconds plus smile.

2nd opportunity. simple "hi how's your night going?" followed by "i wouldn't drink that if i was you" would do cause they checked you out before

(09-07-2013 07:09 PM)Videl Wrote:  Additionally she looked my direction every 15 seconds for 15 minutes. The blonde one who wasn't facing me, put her body against me the whole time but didn't make eye contact.

3rd chance. damn they were throwing themselves at you. you must be so pretty

(09-07-2013 07:09 PM)Videl Wrote:  At this moment I was thinking, should I just choose easy target and go for brunette, or go for blonde one. I'm totally socially akward guy so I didn't want to mess this up.

What should I have done? Just approached the girl I wanted, the brunette one who was facing me, or should I approached the whole group? And should I have introduced myself to the whole group? How do you guys do this?

in such obvious situation it does not matter who you choose and how you break the ice. just go in. approach the group. chit chat with them all at first but flirt the one you like. DO NOT IGNORE HER FRIENDS. you want her friends to be on your side. join her group. make them your cheerleaders. the will allow you to take care of the girl you want.

(09-07-2013 07:42 PM)Videl Wrote:  The trouble which I have is after I approached the girl, do I introduce myself to her friends right away, make small talk first or introduce? if I do, that would look kind of weird since I have to jump from the ear from one girl to the other to talk to them all.

approach the girl and tell her to introduce you to her friends. she'll do it for you so you can chill. or she will tell you it's ok and in that case it's even better since she wants to be with you in isolation.

(09-07-2013 09:30 PM)Videl Wrote:  I don't know how to work a group. The books I read don't explain how to work a group in detail.

crucial skill. classic MM. the girls that you want hang out in groups. learn to handle that or die fucking bunch of scrubs read.

Post: #11

Quote: first chance to break the ice. lock eyes. wave at them or smile or raise a glass. they reciprocate. you go in. warm approach.

2nd opportunity. simple "hi how's your night going?" followed by "i wouldn't drink that if i was you" would do cause they checked you out before

I know those pick-up lines. I memorized quite a few. Deliveering my initial line/approach sentence, I don't have a problem with. It is was comes after that and how to work a group.

Quote:3rd chance. damn they were throwing themselves at you. you must be so pretty

No, it is a ladies job to be pretty.. I spend minimal amount on my appearence.

Quote:in such obvious situation it does not matter who you choose and how you break the ice. just go in. approach the group. chit chat with them all at first but flirt the one you like. DO NOT IGNORE HER FRIENDS. you want her friends to be on your side. join her group. make them your cheerleaders. the will allow you to take care of the girl you want.

]approach the girl and tell her to introduce you to her friends. she'll do it for you so you can chill. or she will tell you it's ok and in that case it's even better since she wants to be with you in isolation.

The music was pretty hard all the time. How can I make conversation with the whole group? That would mean I have to jump from one girls's ear to another girl's ear to work them all. I don't think that is even possible since they were all clustered up to talk to each other. God I'm bad at group dynamics..

Quote:crucial skill. classic MM. the girls that you want hang out in groups. learn to handle that or die fucking bunch of scrubs [url=/showthread.php?3002-Opening-Group-Theory-and-Bitch-Shields-(Guide)]read[/url].

Thanks I will read that. Actually some weeks back I found this guy explaining how to work a group:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wog2rF7a48

Actually pretty good advice I must say but the thing is that in night clubs, you won't be able to talk to a group like this unless you shout in their ear because the music is so loud.

As conclusion, I guess the only way it is going to work is work my way in by talking to one girl. And then ask her to introduce me, ask how they know each other, ask them if they have fun, what they like to do, etc... but is it possible I just ignore her friends after I introduced myself to them, and just concentrate on my target? Or do I have to distribute my attention and then choose one and isolate?

Post: #12

you're not horrible at group dynamics. you just seek some kind of perfect solution instead of thinking for yourself and feeling out what you should suppose to do in the moment. i bet you actually KNOW instinctively what you should then and there do but you think that there is some better more magical way to handle it so you doubt yourself and fuck up.

(09-08-2013 05:28 AM)Videl Wrote:  but is it possible I just ignore her friends after I introduced myself to them, and just concentrate on my target? Or do I have to distribute my attention and then choose one and isolate?

both are fine.

it's case by case. you need to assess the situation. trust your guts and decide based on that. feel it out whether you should engage her friends or not. do they interrupt you a lot? are they looking at you suspiciously? be aware of stuff like that. if they're cool then fuck them. if they need to see that you're cool then engage them.

in loud venue i think it's best to tell your girl to introduce you. then the whole introduction is shaking hands or waving at each other. mostly non verbal stuff. or when they dance you can dance with them for a bit and then "choose" one girl to give her most of your attention. then when you're "in" you can always take your girl to quieter spot in the club to talk a bit.

as you can see it's no rocket science. pretty much common sense. don't get caught up in pickup theory. it's just a map

Post: #13

(09-08-2013 06:44 AM)XXL Wrote:  you're not horrible at group dynamics. you just seek some kind of perfect solution instead of thinking for yourself and feeling out what you should suppose to do in the moment. i bet you actually KNOW instinctively what you should then and there do but you think that there is some better more magical way to handle it so you doubt yourself and fuck up.

(09-08-2013 05:28 AM)Videl Wrote:  but is it possible I just ignore her friends after I introduced myself to them, and just concentrate on my target? Or do I have to distribute my attention and then choose one and isolate?

both are fine.

it's case by case. you need to assess the situation. trust your guts and decide based on that. feel it out whether you should engage her friends or not. do they interrupt you a lot? are they looking at you suspiciously? be aware of stuff like that. if they're cool then fuck them. if they need to see that you're cool then engage them.

in loud venue i think it's best to tell your girl to introduce you. then the whole introduction is shaking hands or waving at each other. mostly non verbal stuff. or when they dance you can dance with them for a bit and then "choose" one girl to give her most of your attention. then when you're "in" you can always take your girl to quieter spot in the club to talk a bit.

as you can see it's no rocket science. pretty much common sense. don't get caught up in pickup theory. it's just a map

You are probably right. I want to micromanage and have everything planned out instead of just going in and go with the flow. Anyway, your last comments have been really helpful. Thank you for that.

But one last thing, I also heard that it is possible to just tap the girl on the shoulder and go stand next to her away from her friends and then open her. Can I afford to talk to my target in this way without having report with her friends?

Post: #14

Don't be angry with yourself man, we're all on the same team here.

In the early days, I had HUGE approach anxiety (as we all do when we start out).

I role solo 100% of the time. When I started out, I would only ever approach the lone girls on the edge of the dance floor as I found this less scary. The advantage of this is that you don't have to win over the approval of the whole group, but the downside is that this occurrence is a rarity (unless you like standing outside the girls bathroom).

Nowadays, I go out of my way to specifically approach groups of three or four. I absolutely hate approaching a group of two, it's a last resort these days. Also, I find approaching a big group really fun.

Now, opinions will vary, but in my opinion, it looks way more alpha to approach a bigger group and this seems to translate through to the girls. Also, I have found that a group of three will get hit on a lot less in a night than a group of two. If two Beta foreigner guys want to pull in Taipei, they'll usually don a two-man-partnership for the night, and will hunt for another group of two (though they will fail).

I'll just spout nonsense at the start "You're Korean, Anyong Haseyo" (Even though they're very obviously Taiwanese). When I do this, I make sure I open the whole group. I make eye contact with everyone, but I'll stand nearest to the pretty one).

Then they'll usually all laugh and will correct me on their nationality. Then usually one of the group will comment on my guyliner and I'll try and plant the 'vampire seed' into their heads (A lot of Asian girls want to be dicked by Edward Cullen. I have a really weird routine currently, but it gets results, so I'll stick with it until I find something better). Then usually one of the group will talk a lot more than the other two, so I isolate her and get the number close or whatever. A couple of the times the other members of the group have gotten the picture and have left me alone with the girl, allowing for dancing and escalation.

I personally get blown out FAR less when I approach a group of three or four for some reason. If I approach a group of two, the other one usually gets jealous. Actually, that reminds me of a phenomenon I have found, 'The Whale Ingestion'. This is when you approach a pretty girl who has a fat friend. Then the fat one gets jealous and immediately throws her arms around the pretty one, engulfing her in a David Attenborough-eque show of cock-blocking consumption.

Just my two cents, and only relevant to my findings here in Taipei. Opinions will vary. Read all the replies here and come to a conclusion on what is best to do for your circumstances.

Post: #15

(09-08-2013 02:17 PM)Videl Wrote:  But one last thing, I also heard that it is possible to just tap the girl on the shoulder and go stand next to her away from her friends and then open her. Can I afford to talk to my target in this way without having report with her friends?

yes you can, why not? you can do whatever you feel like doing simply because you can always recover and try different angle. game is basically.. you doing what you want at the moment and calibrating after your move.

so..

let's say you tap her on her left shoulder. her friends stand on her right side. she turns left to you and you say something. it's fine. technically nothing wrong, right? cool, but you can't predict what will happen after you do something like that. what if her friends are having rough time with their BFs and get super hostile towards you just cause you're a guy who opened his mouth to their friend? it has nothing to do with you per se but still you get so much shit from them. my point is, you never know what will happen when you approach or take her hand or . sure, you can feel it when it's good time to do some move but

this is why you gotta learn how to quickly calibrate AFTER you do/say something, not before. this doesn't mean you can do any stupid shit for the sake of doing what you want haha i assume basic common sense. but you should know how to diffuse negative reactions or shittests. you can always step back a bit and say "i'm sorry i didn't mean to piss you off i got lost in the moment" then quickly change the topic. she will understand. and you're back in the game. then, you game game game, she goes wtf?! you calibrate, game game game, she goes wtf?! you calibrate, etc etc.

watch my first video about it in your "departing.." thread