Post: #276

(09-07-2013 01:41 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-07-2013 11:25 AM)soup Wrote:  Even if god was real, why would you worship it?

The same reasons you would show gratitutde and respect to your parents. Judging from your atittude towards God, your parents must be overjoyed to have an offspring who doesn't give a fuck about them.

(09-07-2013 12:24 PM)soup Wrote:  Actually we never needed religion.

The only good religion is for is when you have to explain to a child what happened to their mom after she died of cancer or something.

You can't just tell a kid that mom is worm food.

Telling them that she's gone away to heaven where she will be ok be happy is the better thing to do.

Do adults need this? No.

Actually religion is the only thing that bonded man together out of the state of nature. Before that it was a free for all, with the strong just pillaging and raping wherever they could go.

Back this up with facts. Just not true. Man is a social animal. Don't need external force to tell him what to do.

Nah, I love my parents and have a good relationship with them. They know that.

You are taking this too personally.

Post: #277

(09-07-2013 01:50 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(09-07-2013 01:41 PM)Samseau Wrote:  The same reasons you would show gratitutde and respect to your parents. Judging from your atittude towards God, your parents must be overjoyed to have an offspring who doesn't give a fuck about them.

Say what? You said your gut feeling tells you that there is a higher being who created the universe. Even IF that were true, how do you equate parents with god? Your parents gave you birth and if they were good parents they took care of you, fed you, clothed you, and helped you develop. Equating parents with god is a very poor comparison.

The analogy could not be more clear. Your parents created you, clothed you, and fed you, and God created all of those things you take for granted. Even if the method God used was extremely complex and beyond our comprehension, if God created them then it follows he is the one you should be grateful for.

Why do you think so many religious texts refers to God as "Father?"

If billions of people throughout history could understand this analogy, then so can you.

Quote:Showing respect and gratitude to parents has nothing to do with not caring about god even if he is real. God didn't take care of me, my parents did. And it's not like god forces are parents to take care of their children.

How do you know God didn't take care of you? Even if he created everything you take for granted, how do you know he didn't actively influence your desicions in life and gave you the opprotunities that you've had?

Quote:Samseau, in one post you say your "gut" tells you that there is a higher being, then you said religion is prerequisite for a polite society (which maybe true to an extent) but as other pointed out humans have fought countless wars over their version of god, then you said not respecting god is the same as not showing gratitude towards your parents.

Where's the contradiction?

By the way - religious wars were pretty much all started by Islam. The crusades were a response to Islam conquering so much of Europe. Same thing for the inquisition - just a response to the Moorish occupation of Spain that lasted for 600 years.

Post: #278

(09-07-2013 01:56 PM)soup Wrote:  

(09-07-2013 01:41 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-07-2013 11:25 AM)soup Wrote:  Even if god was real, why would you worship it?

The same reasons you would show gratitutde and respect to your parents. Judging from your atittude towards God, your parents must be overjoyed to have an offspring who doesn't give a fuck about them.

(09-07-2013 12:24 PM)soup Wrote:  Actually we never needed religion.

The only good religion is for is when you have to explain to a child what happened to their mom after she died of cancer or something.

You can't just tell a kid that mom is worm food.

Telling them that she's gone away to heaven where she will be ok be happy is the better thing to do.

Do adults need this? No.

Actually religion is the only thing that bonded man together out of the state of nature. Before that it was a free for all, with the strong just pillaging and raping wherever they could go.

Back this up with facts. Just not true. Man is a social animal. Don't need external force to tell him what to do.

Name any ancient civilization without religon. Name a single anthropologist who denies the importance of religion.

Quote:Nah, I love my parents and have a good relationship with them. They know that.

Then if you love your parents, you can understand how to love God.

Post: #279

^^ So I should have the same attitude towards a higher power which may or may not exist as I do towards my parents? You know my parents who are actually real and exist in person. 'God' should be given the same respect as my parents who spent a better part of their lives caring for me. Yeah, that's a brilliant analogy. You yourself are saying "if" god created this. And we go back to the same point. Is it god from an organized religion or just some higher being? According to you we should be respectful towards god who may not be real and who maybe a lot different than the version of god that society accepts.

Again, I am no fan of Islam and you know that but as I said previously, if there is a higher being, how do we know that Islam's version of god isn't the real one? Maybe I should stop being so critical of Islam by that logic.

Post: #280

(09-07-2013 02:03 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  ^^ So I should have the same attitude towards a higher power which may or may not exist as I do towards my parents? You know my parents who are actually real and exist in person. 'God' should be given the same respect as my parents who spent a better part of their lives caring for me. Yeah, that's a brilliant analogy. You yourself are saying "if" god created this. And we go back to the same point. Is it god from an organized religion or just some higher being? According to you we should be respectful towards god who may not be real and who maybe a lot different than the version of god that society accepts.

Again, I am no fan of Islam and you know that but as I said previously, if there is a higher being, how do we know that Islam's version of god isn't the real one? Maybe I should stop being so critical of Islam by that logic.

There have been countless theologians who could answer your questions better than I.

However, I will give you Thomas Aquinas' argument for Christianity.

God created morality. Thus the most accurate religion of God is the one that has the superior morality.

Christ says, Love thy neighbor, respect God, give expecting nothing thereof, and do not lust for any person except the one that you love.

Mohammed says, Conquor thy neighbor, fear God, take from your enemies and tax your subjects, and take wives as you need them.

So, which one do you think has the better morality? Aquinas said that the natural powers of moral deduction Man has should be enough to distinguish which religions are true or not.

Post: #281

(09-07-2013 02:00 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-07-2013 01:56 PM)soup Wrote:  

(09-07-2013 01:41 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-07-2013 11:25 AM)soup Wrote:  Even if god was real, why would you worship it?

The same reasons you would show gratitutde and respect to your parents. Judging from your atittude towards God, your parents must be overjoyed to have an offspring who doesn't give a fuck about them.

(09-07-2013 12:24 PM)soup Wrote:  Actually we never needed religion.

The only good religion is for is when you have to explain to a child what happened to their mom after she died of cancer or something.

You can't just tell a kid that mom is worm food.

Telling them that she's gone away to heaven where she will be ok be happy is the better thing to do.

Do adults need this? No.

Actually religion is the only thing that bonded man together out of the state of nature. Before that it was a free for all, with the strong just pillaging and raping wherever they could go.

Back this up with facts. Just not true. Man is a social animal. Don't need external force to tell him what to do.

Name any ancient civilization without religon. Name a single anthropologist who denies the importance of religion.

Quote:Nah, I love my parents and have a good relationship with them. They know that.

Then if you love your parents, you can understand how to love God.

But the difference is that my parents exist, and god doesn't.

Also, my parents don't let murder millions of people and give HIV to babies in Africa.

They pretty much mind their own business.


Maybe you are just afraid to exist without god.

I do.

Guess what- it's not so bad.

Post: #282

(09-07-2013 02:17 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-07-2013 02:03 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  ^^ So I should have the same attitude towards a higher power which may or may not exist as I do towards my parents? You know my parents who are actually real and exist in person. 'God' should be given the same respect as my parents who spent a better part of their lives caring for me. Yeah, that's a brilliant analogy. You yourself are saying "if" god created this. And we go back to the same point. Is it god from an organized religion or just some higher being? According to you we should be respectful towards god who may not be real and who maybe a lot different than the version of god that society accepts.

Again, I am no fan of Islam and you know that but as I said previously, if there is a higher being, how do we know that Islam's version of god isn't the real one? Maybe I should stop being so critical of Islam by that logic.

There have been countless theologians who could answer your questions better than I.

However, I will give you Thomas Aquinas' argument for Christianity.

God created morality. Thus the most accurate religion of God is the one that has the superior morality.

Christ says, Love thy neighbor, respect God, give expecting nothing thereof, and do not lust for any person except the one that you love.

Mohammed says, Conquor thy neighbor, fear God, take from your enemies and tax your subjects, and take wives as you need them.

So, which one do you think has the better morality? Aquinas said that the natural powers of moral deduction Man has should be enough to distinguish which religions are true or not.

But I thought it was your gut feeling that said there is a higher being? How can we be sure that god created morality? And then arbitrarily decide that the "most accurate religion of God is the one that has the superior morality". Now we are just deciding which is the most accurate religion of god ?

What about other religions such as Judaism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and Hinduism?

From what I know isn't Buddhism the most "live and let live" kind of religion? Wouldn't Buddhism then be the most accurate religion of god?

Post: #283

This thread has be ongoing for a very long time.

Post: #284

(09-07-2013 02:17 PM)soup Wrote:  

(09-07-2013 02:00 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-07-2013 01:56 PM)soup Wrote:  

(09-07-2013 01:41 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-07-2013 11:25 AM)soup Wrote:  Even if god was real, why would you worship it?

The same reasons you would show gratitutde and respect to your parents. Judging from your atittude towards God, your parents must be overjoyed to have an offspring who doesn't give a fuck about them.

(09-07-2013 12:24 PM)soup Wrote:  Actually we never needed religion.

The only good religion is for is when you have to explain to a child what happened to their mom after she died of cancer or something.

You can't just tell a kid that mom is worm food.

Telling them that she's gone away to heaven where she will be ok be happy is the better thing to do.

Do adults need this? No.

Actually religion is the only thing that bonded man together out of the state of nature. Before that it was a free for all, with the strong just pillaging and raping wherever they could go.

Back this up with facts. Just not true. Man is a social animal. Don't need external force to tell him what to do.

Name any ancient civilization without religon. Name a single anthropologist who denies the importance of religion.

Quote:Nah, I love my parents and have a good relationship with them. They know that.

Then if you love your parents, you can understand how to love God.

But the difference is that my parents exist, and god doesn't.

You don't know that.

Quote:Also, my parents don't let murder millions of people and give HIV to babies in Africa.

They pretty much mind their own business.

God mind's his own business too. He lets people sin freely, and interferes only rarely or occasionally.

Quote:Maybe you are just afraid to exist without god.

I do.

Guess what- it's not so bad.

Wouldn't make a difference to me if God exists or not, at least right now. God knows I sin just as much as if God never existed at all.

Post: #285

(09-07-2013 02:31 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:  This thread has be ongoing for a very long time.

FWIW, this thread hasn't devolved into bitter name-calling, personal insults and a trolling fest like all race threads.

Post: #286

(09-07-2013 12:11 PM)Acute Angle Wrote:  

(09-07-2013 09:32 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Without religion, there wouldn't have been a peaceful and stable society enough to create the conditions necessary for artisans like engineers to survive in the first place.

In fact, I'm pretty sure the rise of agriculture and organized religion go hand in hand.

Religion is to polite society as rich soil is to plants.

I already agreed with Roosh that religion is evolutionarily adaptive.

This is actually a really important point, and something I think Samseau is trying to emphasize. If you consider early civilizations that existed before a universal legal code, human behavior would have been largely shaped by self indulgence. Do what's best for you. This may be functional in some ways, but doesn't provide a very good framework for a thriving civilization.

Religion imposed a moral code imparted by some higher power. But thus did the spiritual and the moral become intertwined. So yeah, religion did serve an important evolutionary function in terms of civilization, but I think it's time we start to separate spiritual from moral.

I believe we can have discussions on morality without invoking "God."

It is also interesting to consider how different religions shaped different civilizations in different ways.

Post: #287

By definition, god can't mind his own business. He is every where at all times. He is spying on you. He is controlling you. He jerks you off.

God swallows your cum.

When you fuck a girl in the ass, you are fucking god in the ass.

When you fight with someone, you are fighting with god and not showing respect.

When you have sex outside of marriage, you are going against what other men tell you is god's word.

But, every word is god's word.

If god is everything, he is good and evil. He's a feminist and he takes it in the ass.

He's a neck-bearded atheist.

If you talk bad about atheists, then you are talking bad about god.

If you say atheists are wrong, then you are saying god is wrong because atheists are god's creation, and the words they say are his words.

Let god do his work and spread atheism. Maybe god is tired of being worshipped. Maybe he created atheism so that his children can individuate themselves from their father.

Post: #288

I don't believe in God but I refuse to bash people that do.

Red pill vs blue pill is a distraction akin to alpha vs. beta.

Post: #289

(09-07-2013 03:37 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:  I don't believe in God but I refuse to bash people that do.

Red pill vs blue pill is a distraction akin to alpha vs. beta.

Agreed. Bashing someone because they do not share your religious views is probably the lowest form of consciousness possible.

Post: #290

(09-07-2013 02:40 PM)soup Wrote:  By definition, god can't mind his own business. He is every where at all times. He is spying on you. He is controlling you. He jerks you off.

God swallows your cum.

When you fuck a girl in the ass, you are fucking god in the ass.

When you fight with someone, you are fighting with god and not showing respect.

When you have sex outside of marriage, you are going against what other men tell you is god's word.

But, every word is god's word.

If god is everything, he is good and evil. He's a feminist and he takes it in the ass.

He's a neck-bearded atheist.

If you talk bad about atheists, then you are talking bad about god.

If you say atheists are wrong, then you are saying god is wrong because atheists are god's creation, and the words they say are his words.

Let god do his work and spread atheism. Maybe god is tired of being worshipped. Maybe he created atheism so that his children can individuate themselves from their father.

Hilarious response, and a perfect example of why I'm not a pantheist (like Einstein was). Pantheism makes no sense.

Post: #291

(09-07-2013 08:26 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-07-2013 02:40 PM)soup Wrote:  By definition, god can't mind his own business. He is every where at all times. He is spying on you. He is controlling you. He jerks you off.

God swallows your cum.

When you fuck a girl in the ass, you are fucking god in the ass.

When you fight with someone, you are fighting with god and not showing respect.

When you have sex outside of marriage, you are going against what other men tell you is god's word.

But, every word is god's word.

If god is everything, he is good and evil. He's a feminist and he takes it in the ass.

He's a neck-bearded atheist.

If you talk bad about atheists, then you are talking bad about god.

If you say atheists are wrong, then you are saying god is wrong because atheists are god's creation, and the words they say are his words.

Let god do his work and spread atheism. Maybe god is tired of being worshipped. Maybe he created atheism so that his children can individuate themselves from their father.

Hilarious response, and a perfect example of why I'm not a pantheist (like Einstein was). Pantheism makes no sense.

So, which god do you worship? Jesus and Co.?
It's really presumptuous of religious people to think they know what god wants.

Post: #292

(09-06-2013 05:49 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:I agree with Roosh that the religious have probably outbred the non-religious and therefore religious belief is evolutionarily adaptive. If you want a stable, obedient, fearful, manipulable population then religion is a great tool. But is that what red pill is about? Hardly.

Red-pill is just a euphumism for skepiticism and truth. If something is true, then it is the truth. If something questions dogma, it is skepticism. Truth cannot be dogma.

The truth is that there has never been a long-lasting society that was not a patriarchy. For example, Sparta gave power to it's women, and Sparta died.

The truth is that there has never been a long-lasting society that was atheist. The reason? It's because atheists think like this:

jaakkeli Wrote:Who cares, I'll be dead when that happens.

Sweeden is already an extinct society. In 300 years from now it is guarenteed that Sweeden does not exist.

But in 300 years from now Christians will still exist. Jews will still exist, and Muslims will still exist. Sweeden will be gone. France will be gone. Every country today that is majority atheist will be dead.

On the other hand, the religious are always thinking in the long-term, always caring about how their actions will affect others, because that is what God has taught them to do. It is a fact that religious conservatives donate more of their personal money than atheist liberals. The Bilble says, "Love thy Neighbor," while Atheists say, "Fuck you, I'm in it for me."

Thus the truth appears that religions are necessary for a societies survival, which means relgiions are red-pill (because it is part of the truth). Atheism is a death cult, just like feminism.

Not true- people have mirror neurons which cause empathy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron

We can care about other people without believing in god.

That means that we can about future generations without believing in god as well.

Post: #293

(09-06-2013 05:49 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:I agree with Roosh that the religious have probably outbred the non-religious and therefore religious belief is evolutionarily adaptive. If you want a stable, obedient, fearful, manipulable population then religion is a great tool. But is that what red pill is about? Hardly.

Red-pill is just a euphumism for skepiticism and truth. If something is true, then it is the truth. If something questions dogma, it is skepticism. Truth cannot be dogma.

The truth is that there has never been a long-lasting society that was not a patriarchy. For example, Sparta gave power to it's women, and Sparta died.

The truth is that there has never been a long-lasting society that was atheist. The reason? It's because atheists think like this:

jaakkeli Wrote:Who cares, I'll be dead when that happens.

Sweeden is already an extinct society. In 300 years from now it is guarenteed that Sweeden does not exist.

But in 300 years from now Christians will still exist. Jews will still exist, and Muslims will still exist. Sweeden will be gone. France will be gone. Every country today that is majority atheist will be dead.

On the other hand, the religious are always thinking in the long-term, always caring about how their actions will affect others, because that is what God has taught them to do. It is a fact that religious conservatives donate more of their personal money than atheist liberals. The Bilble says, "Love thy Neighbor," while Atheists say, "Fuck you, I'm in it for me."

Thus the truth appears that religions are necessary for a societies survival, which means relgiions are red-pill (because it is part of the truth). Atheism is a death cult, just like feminism.

Not true- people have mirror neurons which cause empathy. We can care about other people without believing in god.

Than means that we can about future generations without believing in god as well.

Post: #294

Just as a note on morality - training folk to behave in certain ways out of fear is a lot lower on the morality scale than allowing people to decide what is right for themselves with no pretense of divine intervention

Post: #295

Religions' scientific method:

   

Post: #296

(09-07-2013 02:17 PM)Samseau Wrote:  However, I will give you Thomas Aquinas' argument for Christianity.

God created morality. Thus the most accurate religion of God is the one that has the superior morality.

Bertrand Russell had this to say about Aquinas:

"He does not, like the Platonic Socrates, set out to follow wherever the argument may lead. He is not engaged in an inquiry, the result of which it is impossible to know in advance. Before he begins to philosophize, he already knows the truth; it is declared in the Catholic faith. If he can find apparently rational arguments for some parts of the faith, so much the better; if he cannot, he need only fall back on revelation. The finding of arguments for a conclusion given in advance is not philosophy, but special pleading. I cannot, therefore, feel that he deserves to be put on a level with the best philosophers either of Greece or of modern times." [my emphasis]

Post: #297

Samseau says that atheism is a "death cult", whereas many atheists would decry the number of people killed in religious wars. This is an interesting examination of those two poles:

Who kills more, religion or atheism?

"So who has been the worst throughout history: atheist regimes or religious regimes? Obviously the big numbers come from the 20th century superpowers (China, Russia, Germany) so the answer depends on how you classify those. And this is where the meat of these debates is usually found, splitting hairs on which regime is atheist, which is merely secular, which is non-Christian and thus fair game to be called atheist. Hitchens points out that Stalin's government had all the trappings of religion, including Orwell's totalitarian theocracy, and thus it's merely a play on words to say that it was not religious. Pol Pot was raised a Buddhist monk who grew up to execute Buddhist monks, along with anyone else he could lay his hands on. Whole books have been written on the occult underpinnings of Nazi Germany, the symbology of the Norse gods, to say nothing of the claims that Hitler was a Christian, Hitler was a Jew, and his own writings expressing the kinship he felt with the Muslims. A favorite counterpoint raised by Christian debaters is that these despots practiced Social Darwinism and were thus atheists by definition. In summary, the winner of these debates is the one who can convince the other that the big 20th century genocidal maniacs were motivated either by religion or by a desire to destroy religion. The entire debate is the logical fallacy of the excluded middle."

Post: #298

Islamism is most certainly a death cult. They often say "We love death more than you love life"

Atheism is the opposite of a death cult, as they believe this is all there is, so make the most of it.

Post: #299

(09-08-2013 05:41 AM)Teedub Wrote:  Islamism is most certainly a death cult. They often say "We love death more than you love life"

Atheism is the opposite of a death cult, as they believe this is all there is, so make the most of it.

I have never heard one muslim say that. For you to say "they often say it" is fucking retarded.

I know many muslims. If they often say it, I would have heard it.

Post: #300

I didn't say Islam. I said "Islamism". Big difference.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/395897/...error-plot

http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=8022





I could go on...

"For you to say "they often say it" is fucking retarded." Being unable to read a person's post properly is pretty retarded.