Post: #1

Just a query. When you're living, or moving around abroad, how do you manage all your money/taxes etc? Where are you liable for tax? Do you have to constantly move money around different paypal and bank accounts in each respective country?

Just a bit of advice would really help.

Post: #2

It depends on which country. Usually, there's a $10,000 limit (any transfers greater than that will raise suspicion) so I prefer to open up local bank accounts. In many European countries, you'll have to provide a copy of your visa and/or work contract to open something up long-term. PayPal is a great way to avoid that if you're constantly moving.

Very important to file tax returns in your home country, regardless where you live. In the U.S., you can just say "Sorry, had no idea!" and you can get away without paying fines. Most countries have treaties to prevent double taxation as well.

Post: #3

Ah, so you think it's just best to pay the tax in your home country (unless there are huge advantages to pay in the one you're in) I intend to stay within the E.U - so I think it is very straight forward to open up new accounts, however, I'd have to keep moving stuff about I suppose. By your answer I'm assuming some of what you declare tax-wise is 'below board' so to speak, however I understand you not wanting to go into that on a pubic forum!

In regards to various accounts, why I wanted to ask Roosh. As all the proceeds of his work goes into his U.S paypal account, yet he has lived in various countries and he's not even an E.U citizen, so was just wondering how he manages it all.

Post: #4

(08-30-2013 05:47 AM)Teedub Wrote:  Just a query. When you're living, or moving around abroad, how do you manage all your money/taxes etc? Where are you liable for tax? Do you have to constantly move money around different paypal and bank accounts in each respective country?

Just a bit of advice would really help.

Teedub this is a very complex topic with many different layers of details depending on what you are doing.

Someone who is exporting white labeled cosmetics to Spain and Mexico from Guangzhou, someone who is running a highly trafficked blog, and someone who is creating an ecommerce startup in Thailand or Vietnam all have very different situations.

Are you asking because you are looking for a specific solution to your situation?

The best way to approach this situation would be to lay out specifically what you want to do (difficult, because usually people do not want to share this stuff on public forums) and then figure out a solution based on that.

If you are just looking for basic feedback and answers on what guys are doing in here I suppose that's different. I get the feeling, though, that the guys who are really good at this stuff won't want to share too much information about it.

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Post: #5

Haha no I'm not looking to expand my global drug trafficking business. I'm starting to write freelance articles, copywriting etc and hopefully in time that will give me the freedom to live wherever I like. My business will be run using a UK bank account/UK paypal etc...but say I was to live in for example Poland, how do you navigate all the money issues. Do you set up new accounts in each country etc? I'm sure I'd figure it out, but just a little heads up would be nice.

Post: #6

Of course, if people would rather this be private, don't hesitate to PM me.

Post: #7

(08-30-2013 07:10 AM)Teedub Wrote:  Haha no I'm not looking to expand my global drug trafficking business. I'm starting to write freelance articles, copywriting etc and hopefully in time that will give me the freedom to live wherever I like. My business will be run using a UK bank account/UK paypal etc...but say I was to live in for example Poland, how do you navigate all the money issues. Do you set up new accounts in each country etc? I'm sure I'd figure it out, but just a little heads up would be nice.

Are you using a UK bank and paypal out of choice or because you haven't explored lower tax options yet?

I assume that if you are making money as a freelancer then you are being taxed at some level based on the independent income you make. I'm not entirely sure what this is in the UK but in the US you pay a "self employment tax" - this also applies if you are living abroad - although the first $97K or so is tax free.

I don't think it's necessarily wise or mandatory to open up a Polish bank account or paypal account.

If you set up a HK private limited company with a bank account also based in HK and then made sure that none of your revenue was being sourced from HK or HK companies (territorial tax treaty) then you could operate your company totally devoid of corporate taxes.

If you operate a HK corporate/commercial/business Paypal account via your HK bank account then you are going to get hit with international transaction fees. Ultimately, however, this is far lower than the very high taxes I assume you are getting bludgeoned with as a European.

I don't know much about European/British tax law for freelancers.

I am not an accountant or lawyer so this is all anecdotal evidence. You don't strike me as someone who is about to pack up and fly to Asia to incorporate in HK. Take all of this with a grain of salt, it's just my kneejerk reaction based on your question and situation.

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Post: #8

Thanks man, yeah I'm not very clued up with this sort of stuff. I just want to be able to get away with paying as little tax as possible without getting hounded out of Europe and becoming an international financial fugitive ha. Yeah I've looked into setting up a company for tax reasons, but for now I think I should just focus on building up the writing in itself and cross these things when I come to it. I was just thinking about paying the rent and stuff in foreign countries that's all.

Post: #9

I have three major bank accounts in the USA, along with an ATM card for each. When I need money, I make withdrawals from the bank (I use the card that doesn't charge me currency exchange fees). When I want to pay rent, I may have to make a few withdrawals over two or three days. I don't have any foreign bank accounts.

I have an accountant in the USA. I send him my tax info and he does the papers. Sometimes I need to sign things, so I go to the internet cafe, print it out, sign in, scan it, then email it back to him.

Post: #10

(08-30-2013 07:21 AM)Teedub Wrote:  Thanks man, yeah I'm not very clued up with this sort of stuff. I just want to be able to get away with paying as little tax as possible without getting hounded out of Europe and becoming an international financial fugitive ha. Yeah I've looked into setting up a company for tax reasons, but for now I think I should just focus on building up the writing in itself and cross these things when I come to it. I was just thinking about paying the rent and stuff in foreign countries that's all.

I don't know much about your situation but I would generally agree with this. Cross this bridge when you get there. That's just my opinion though.

Incorporating in HK/SG would not put you in bad standing. These are countries that have a solid reputation although they are legitimate tax havens.

This is a good site that has a lot of information about Singapore specifically:

http://www.guidemesingapore.com/

My answer was going to be that the time to make a move like that is once you are delegating a lot of work to other people and cashflow is pretty solid. However, as a solo freelancer you are pretty much confined to a limited income box (profits derive from trading your hours/labor), responsible for all of the output of your company, and I'm not sure how you can create a team to shoulder the work to free up your time to diversify into other stuff. If you hire cheap Filipinos to write your stuff people will notice.

Again, I have no idea what you have going on right now. That's when I'd be considering incorporating in SG/HK though.

My two cents.

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On another note - what topics do you generally write about? Are you a ghostwriter looking for work? Are you an SEO specialist?

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Post: #11

(08-30-2013 07:27 AM)Roosh Wrote:  I have three major bank accounts in the USA, along with an ATM card for each. When I need money, I make withdrawals from the bank (I use the card that doesn't charge me currency exchange fees). When I want to pay rent, I may have to make a few withdrawals over two or three days. I don't have any foreign bank accounts.

I have an accountant in the USA. I send him my tax info and he does the papers. Sometimes I need to sign things, so I go to the internet cafe, print it out, sign in, scan it, then email it back to him.

Roosh do you have a Mac?

You don't have to print and scan stuff anymore in the context of signing or filling out any PDFs:

http://www.maclife.com/article/howtos/ho...df_preview

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Post: #12

(08-30-2013 07:27 AM)Roosh Wrote:  I have three major bank accounts in the USA, along with an ATM card for each.

Thanks for that mate. Quick query, do you use your U.S address for these accounts? If so, when they send out new cards etc, do your friends/parents have to post them to wherever you're staying?

Post: #13

(08-30-2013 07:17 AM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  I assume that if you are making money as a freelancer then you are being taxed at some level based on the independent income you make. I'm not entirely sure what this is in the UK but in the US you pay a "self employment tax" - this also applies if you are living abroad - although the first $97K or so is tax free.

Although this isn't on the vein of the primary topic, I just want to make a quick correction or clarification: the first $97K is only tax free from a Federal Income Tax standpoint (State Income Tax is state dependent). Social Security/Self Employment Tax is forced upon you from the very first dollar you make. I hate this to death, so I just had to clarify this.
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Quote:Quick query, do you use your U.S address for these accounts?

Not a question to me, but in the US, accounts need to be attached to a permanent address, so typically, the most convenient option is to use a family member's address. I don't think renting PO boxes work for this purpose.

Quote:Where are you liable for tax?

Usual disclaimer: I'm not an accountant.

I'm assuming you're a UK citizen. In any case, taxes are country-dependent usually based on residency. Thus, this requires individual research.

I think the typical rules are: your residing country taxes you on income sourced from the country (so any local business stuff; foreign clients is foreign sourced). After that, if you exceed a certain time period in the country for the year, then you may be taxed on all your income. For example, if you stay in Morocco for 183 or may days in a year, all of your income is taxed. A few countries don't do that. I can't find the site that gives a few examples right now, but there are a few in Latin America.

Corollary: if you're clever and careful enough with your travel planning and rotate countries 3-ish times a year, you can end up owing no taxes.

If I remember this example correctly, a German freelancer could derive all his income from Europe and live in Thailand nearly tax free due to the lack of tax on foreign sourced income (I think there is a tax to income remitted to Thailand, though).

Quote:Do you have to constantly move money around different paypal and bank accounts in each respective country?

Unless you're making big purchases or there's something special, I don't see why you would need to open a foreign bank account. Most ATMs nowadays can access your home bank account and withdraw in the countries' currencies. You might even be able to find a card with no or low foreign exchange rate (Schwab is one for Americans).

Post: #14

(08-30-2013 07:27 AM)Roosh Wrote:  I have three major bank accounts in the USA, along with an ATM card for each. When I need money, I make withdrawals from the bank (I use the card that doesn't charge me currency exchange fees). When I want to pay rent, I may have to make a few withdrawals over two or three days. I don't have any foreign bank accounts.

I have an accountant in the USA. I send him my tax info and he does the papers. Sometimes I need to sign things, so I go to the internet cafe, print it out, sign in, scan it, then email it back to him.

Hey roosh,

is your accountant expensive? I've been thinking about getting one.

Post: #15

Teedub: Tax situations vary greatly depending on your country of citizenship, and your tax home (which may be different). What is your citizenship, and where did you file taxes last year?

Post: #16

I think tax advice and related services for expats could be a very lucrative business niche.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #17

(09-02-2013 10:48 AM)paninaro Wrote:  Teedub: Tax situations vary greatly depending on your country of citizenship, and your tax home (which may be different). What is your citizenship, and where did you file taxes last year?

I haven't set up any business yet mate, this thread was more just to get an idea. I'm British, citizen of the United Kingdom.

(09-02-2013 10:51 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  I think tax advice and related services for expats could be a very lucrative business niche.

Good idea! You should write an ebook

Post: #18

(09-02-2013 10:51 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  I think tax advice and related services for expats could be a very lucrative business niche.

Good idea! You should write an ebook
[/quote]

Don't think I'm quite qualified in that department.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #19

Just write a good sales page, photograph a few Bentleys and have a cool voiceover... People will buy anything! Lol

Post: #20

(09-02-2013 11:51 AM)Teedub Wrote:  Just write a good sales page, photograph a few Bentleys and have a cool voiceover... People will buy anything! Lol

Yes high nett worth Brit expats will fall for anything...they made all their money by being trusting and gullible...or alternatively they are experienced, shrewd, cynical, streetwise and will see through any chancer with a 'presentation over substance' website and no verified background/contacts/testamonials on LinkedIn etc

Post: #21

(09-02-2013 01:26 PM)EU Explorer Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 11:51 AM)Teedub Wrote:  Just write a good sales page, photograph a few Bentleys and have a cool voiceover... People will buy anything! Lol

Yes high nett worth Brit expats will fall for anything...they made all their money by being trusting and gullible...or alternatively they are experienced, shrewd, cynical, streetwise and will see through any chancer with a 'presentation over substance' website and no verified background/contacts/testamonials on LinkedIn etc

My morals would prevent me of ever doing anything of the sort even if I could pull it off. I assumed Teedub was joking, so I didn't bother making that clear, but just in case there's any doubt here whatsoever, this is not something I would consider pursuing no matter how much money it was worth.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #22

I was indeed joking!

Post: #23

(09-02-2013 02:03 PM)Teedub Wrote:  I was indeed joking!

haha Yeah, I know, Bro.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #24

If you aren't liable for taxes world wide by your citizenship (this is the case for americans, not sure for which other countries too), then you can legally get around paying taxes at all mostly, if your business is purely online based.

For local businesses / local rep offices you pay the local taxes and fees + whatever you owe to your home country if it's not fully covered by a bileteral tax agreement.

This kind of stuff is best left to lawyers however.

Post: #25

(09-02-2013 10:27 PM)AsiaBaller Wrote:  If you aren't liable for taxes world wide by your citizenship (this is the case for americans, not sure for which other countries too), then you can legally get around paying taxes at all mostly, if your business is purely online based.

Only the US taxes on citizenship. Well, there's Eritrea with some sort of 2% tax, but for all intents and purposes, the US is the sole asshole.

Just to clarify your second point, it is not necessarily true that you can avoid taxes if your business is purely online based.

Taxes are by and large based on residency. If you stay long enough in a certain country, then you pay taxes. Depending on the country, the taxes may be only based on local source income (so in this case, your online based business doesn't give you any tax liability), or it may be based on worldwide income (so you still owe taxes on your online based business).

Most countries (over 95% of the worthwhile ones) are of the latter. Thus, if your goal is to avoid taxes, you should be extremely cognizant of the countries where you reside long-term (over 90 days) and check their tax laws.

Again, I can't seem to find the list of countries that fall in either category online for the moment, but Panama and Singapore are two countries that fall in the former camp. I don't think anywhere in Europe falls in that camp.

Actually, Wikpedia has a list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internation...on_systems

Check the "resident foreigners" column. For those countries that tax worldwide income by residency, make sure you figure out how many days you can stay in a country before you are considered a "resident".