Post: #26

(08-27-2013 04:54 PM)Seadog Wrote:  I like travelling, and twice now I've become fully involved living in a seperate culture. I grew up in Canada, but have spent 2 two year hithces, first in Mexican culture, now in Indonesian. Both times it started off tolerable, I would tell people I enjoyed it, but honestly I think I was just being agreeable and trying to give it a fair shot. As the months pass, both times I found myself getting more and more and more annoyed. The language is isolating, I find the people pushy I think from growing up with poverty mindset means they will try and secure litle advantages over each other at the others expense, ie being very pushy at luggage carosel in an airport, because there is limited space. If everyone just took a step back it would be fine, but no, it's just a flat out competition to try and screw others out of space so that they can secure theirs. Everyone trying for a win-lose scenario that ultimately makes everyone worse off. I find the hygiene levels non-existent, and the lack of education which is hand in hand the level of religion also annoying. Having to deal with being woken up every day at 4am when a mosque kicks off, or a Mexican telling me I'm bad for eating meat on Friday, while he snorts coke and cheats on his wife with a 14 yo hooker.

Anyway the point of this post isn't to complain about other cultures, rather inquire if anyone else has made the move to a different culture, loved it, jumped in with both feet, and never looked back? If you look in the west, all immigrants tend to stick to their own (china towns, little koreas etc). Honestly I think what I'm experiencing is just human nature, but I am curious how common it is for people to make the full leap to a different culture.

You just described China perfectly.....except for the cocaine.

Post: #27

I have done it, to a point when I can't stand Colombian culture at all anymore.

Post: #28

Slavic culture is very interesting but it can totally absorb you to the point you lose your soul.

Post: #29

(09-01-2013 01:09 PM)Volk Wrote:  I have done it, to a point when I can't stand Colombian culture at all anymore.

Can you elaborate on this no matter how it comes across? Also if you were to pick another culture in SA which one?

Post: #30

As a European who has traveled a lot, I think the only culture worth embracing is the american culture. Althought the US is slowly turning into a police state, it's still the only culture of unapologetic self realization and innovation out there, with a fair chance for almost everyone.

Americans like to feel inferior to europeans for the lack of "culture", but in the end that's just upper middle class entertainment in a system of social class division, with very little upward mobility for those not fortunate enough to have rich parents and an overly socialist system that is against innovation and self realization.

I have lived in many developing countries and while I liked living in some of them, the backward local culture is usually the reason for it's developing status and those who tend to embrace it (i.e. Europeans in Thailand) tend to come accross as fools.

Post: #31

(09-01-2013 01:09 PM)Volk Wrote:  I have done it, to a point when I can't stand Colombian culture at all anymore.

Where have you moved to?

As an American, I loved Colombian culture, and it made me feel even more negative about American culture.

Post: #32

(09-01-2013 07:57 PM)AsiaBaller Wrote:  As a European who has traveled a lot, I think the only culture worth embracing is the american culture. Althought the US is slowly turning into a police state, it's still the only culture of unapologetic self realization and innovation out there, with a fair chance for almost everyone.

Americans like to feel inferior to europeans for the lack of "culture", but in the end that's just upper middle class entertainment in a system of social class division, with very little upward mobility for those not fortunate enough to have rich parents and an overly socialist system that is against innovation and self realization.

I have lived in many developing countries and while I liked living in some of them, the backward local culture is usually the reason for it's developing status and those who tend to embrace it (i.e. Europeans in Thailand) tend to come accross as fools.

I love Europe, lived there for years in the U.S. military and traveled a lot, and I came to the same conclusion. Both Europeans and Americans tend to focus on the high-culture part of Europe, and ignore the chavs, cafones, ultras, soccer hooligans, lager louts, and the European version of trashy culture - dumb TV, empty Europop, and the obsession with porn in many places.

Social mobility is much greater in the USA, too. A poor kid can climb from a public school to community college to Ivy League grad school and certain professional success. In Europe, it's mostly all over and determined by age 12.

Post: #33

(09-01-2013 10:31 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  As an American, I loved Colombian culture, and it made me feel even more negative about American culture.

Specifically what was your setup there? One of the big ones for me is language. How do you get close to people and have good friends and relationships and truely intrigrate into society if you are anything less than fluent in the language? To a level that takes years? What are you doing socially in those years in between?

Post: #34

(09-01-2013 07:57 PM)AsiaBaller Wrote:  As a European who has traveled a lot, I think the only culture worth embracing is the american culture. Althought the US is slowly turning into a police state, it's still the only culture of unapologetic self realization and innovation out there, with a fair chance for almost everyone.

Americans like to feel inferior to europeans for the lack of "culture", but in the end that's just upper middle class entertainment in a system of social class division, with very little upward mobility for those not fortunate enough to have rich parents and an overly socialist system that is against innovation and self realization.

I have lived in many developing countries and while I liked living in some of them, the backward local culture is usually the reason for it's developing status and those who tend to embrace it (i.e. Europeans in Thailand) tend to come accross as fools.

This is the first time I've ever heard a European say anything like this.

Post: #35

(09-02-2013 12:43 AM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

(09-01-2013 07:57 PM)AsiaBaller Wrote:  As a European who has traveled a lot, I think the only culture worth embracing is the american culture. Althought the US is slowly turning into a police state, it's still the only culture of unapologetic self realization and innovation out there, with a fair chance for almost everyone.

This is the first time I've ever heard a European say anything like this.

American optimism is a double edged sword. More people here think they can make it big than are really capable of it.

So there are a lot of flameouts. But it's a great place for brilliant, proactive people.

I wrote a sci-fi script in the fucking backwoods, then one night at 11 PM I posted an ad on LA Casting web site for actors offering $35 per day pay, from my little red house in the boondocks.

I stayed up late that night, and started actually becoming alarmed as dozens, then hundreds of actors -- many with 4 year degrees in theater and even people who had gone to England to study Shakespearean drama!!-- sent in their head shots, just because it was a sincere attempt at drama and not a stupid zombie movie or the like.

I was just a guy who knew absolutely nobody, nowhere near LA, with no significant cash to produce my script.
I would even tell them point blank, "I'm just a nut with a script," or "I'm a screenwriter who doesn't know his place."

But those people were ready to GO, because they thought this was something that MAYBE, just MAYBE might be good. Super proactive.

There were so many I couldn't even go through the resumes carefully. I don't think you find this kind of risk-taking energy elsewhere than USA.
People are too drained from trying to survive.

I will admit though, Whaleism STILL made it hard to find the super-talented 9+ actress I wanted. Girls who are 9+ in the USA are already making money with their looks. There were some 9+ actresses, but they all had accents and were Slavic or Brazilian and that was a deal-breaker for the plot.

Actually, there was a couple 9s that were interested in the part, but they were already on network or cable channel TV shows getting 700+ per day union pay, and couldn't guarantee availability for my microbudget shoot.

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Post: #36

(09-02-2013 12:43 AM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

(09-01-2013 07:57 PM)AsiaBaller Wrote:  As a European who has traveled a lot, I think the only culture worth embracing is the american culture. Althought the US is slowly turning into a police state, it's still the only culture of unapologetic self realization and innovation out there, with a fair chance for almost everyone.

Americans like to feel inferior to europeans for the lack of "culture", but in the end that's just upper middle class entertainment in a system of social class division, with very little upward mobility for those not fortunate enough to have rich parents and an overly socialist system that is against innovation and self realization.

I have lived in many developing countries and while I liked living in some of them, the backward local culture is usually the reason for it's developing status and those who tend to embrace it (i.e. Europeans in Thailand) tend to come accross as fools.

This is the first time I've ever heard a European say anything like this.

I'm not a classic European who has lived in his home country all his life, so maybe that's why.

If all you aim for in life is having a middle class lifestyle or as a high achiever in school getting some management job, then western Europe is for you, but if you're a free thinker who aims high, Europe will crush you with it's bad school systems that aim for class division and conformation to the rules, overregulation and underfunding in business that makes bootstrapping and young innovative companies almost impossible, high taxation, envious people who don't like to see others succeed etc.

The first generations that came to the US had the will to make something happen outside of set structures, while people that liked things as they are stayed in Europe. Little has changed since then in my opinion.

Post: #37

(09-02-2013 12:00 AM)Seadog Wrote:  

(09-01-2013 10:31 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  As an American, I loved Colombian culture, and it made me feel even more negative about American culture.

Specifically what was your setup there? One of the big ones for me is language. How do you get close to people and have good friends and relationships and truely intrigrate into society if you are anything less than fluent in the language? To a level that takes years? What are you doing socially in those years in between?

At age 20 I spoke no Spanish, or any foreign language. I enrolled in Spanish 101 at school. I was ridiculously bad to begin. My friends who just vaguely remembered their High School Spanish, which I had forgotten, were much better than me and helped me on my homework. I was clueless.

Age 21 I studied 1 semester in Mexico and began taking Spanish seriously, doing independent study. Before going I had become more interested in truly studying Spanish. I began listening to music and reading websites in Spanish, watching movies in Spanish, etc. I would spend hours in the library translating songs and articles trying to understand them. I spent much more time on my personal goal of learning Spanish than on any academic subject. When I arrived in Mexico my Spanish was halting and awkward, but I quickly absorbed lots of it and took class 6 hours a day in Spanish, and then lived with a Mexican family and had my social life about 70/30 in English/Spanish, hanging out mostly with foreign students, but pretty frequently with Mexican ones. I joined the intramural basketball team for instance. "Rebote rebote! volteando! Pantalla!"

After Mexico my Spanish was OK but not great. I took advanced classes that pushed me to read through long novels in Spanish. In my other classes I always faked it and didn't do the assignments but for Spanish I would actually read these big ass novels and dedicate myself to understanding them. I actually enjoyed it. I didn't understand everything. I read an entire novel thinking the main character was a woman, when in reality it was a gay man called "la loca." I didn't realize until the test on the novel that it was a gay man.

After graduating University at age 22 I moved to Colombia. I got a job teaching English, but I lived my life in Spanish, made friends in Spanish, etc.

Within a few months I had improved greatly, and I am now "fluent" in Spanish.

I can read novels, newspapers, go to the bank, have friendships, live my whole life in Spanish.

It wasn't casual or easy to do but I was excited about learning a new language and for me the effort required was fun and rewarding.

Living in Mexico and Colombia I had no problem meeting friends, developing a social life, having girlfriends, etc.

I think people really freak themselves out about how "hard" languages can be. Just go do it. I've known dozens of foreigners who arrive to South America speaking ZERO Spanish and within 3-6 months are getting along fine and improving.

Now there are many foreigners who get to a passable level in a language but never master it. This is just a question of dedication to study and hard work. Learning all the intricacies of a language is a full time job, you must be aware of how people speak around you all the time, you must study the language in your free time, and this must be enjoyable to you otherwise you will not learn. Some people don't care. But to me it's like learning a musical instrument or a martial art, it requires hard work and dedication but the whole process is enjoyable not a pain.

Post: #38

(09-02-2013 01:07 AM)AsiaBaller Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 12:43 AM)youngmobileglobal Wrote:  

(09-01-2013 07:57 PM)AsiaBaller Wrote:  As a European who has traveled a lot, I think the only culture worth embracing is the american culture. Althought the US is slowly turning into a police state, it's still the only culture of unapologetic self realization and innovation out there, with a fair chance for almost everyone.

Americans like to feel inferior to europeans for the lack of "culture", but in the end that's just upper middle class entertainment in a system of social class division, with very little upward mobility for those not fortunate enough to have rich parents and an overly socialist system that is against innovation and self realization.

I have lived in many developing countries and while I liked living in some of them, the backward local culture is usually the reason for it's developing status and those who tend to embrace it (i.e. Europeans in Thailand) tend to come accross as fools.

This is the first time I've ever heard a European say anything like this.

I'm not a classic European who has lived in his home country all his life, so maybe that's why.

If all you aim for in life is having a middle class lifestyle or as a high achiever in school getting some management job, then western Europe is for you, but if you're a free thinker who aims high, Europe will crush you with it's bad school systems that aim for class division and conformation to the rules, overregulation and underfunding in business that makes bootstrapping and young innovative companies almost impossible, high taxation, envious people who don't like to see others succeed etc.

The first generations that came to the US had the will to make something happen outside of set structures, while people that liked things as they are stayed in Europe. Little has changed since then in my opinion.

Hear hear! It's great to hear that.

I totally agree about the mentality about wanting to break out.

It's similar with many Asians as well.

-

Post: #39

^ @ YMG - Inbox full.

Post: #40

I believe Vorkuta had inspiring insights on the topic here:

/thread-20886.html


I've felt similarly in China.

Post: #41

Hungary. I would tell you why Colombian culture is as much of a farce as the American, but I am sure you would not believe me anyways. The thing is: I am a lot more integrated here and a hundred times happier, which is what really counts anyways.

Post: #42

(09-01-2013 11:45 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  

(09-01-2013 07:57 PM)AsiaBaller Wrote:  As a European who has traveled a lot, I think the only culture worth embracing is the american culture. Althought the US is slowly turning into a police state, it's still the only culture of unapologetic self realization and innovation out there, with a fair chance for almost everyone.

Americans like to feel inferior to europeans for the lack of "culture", but in the end that's just upper middle class entertainment in a system of social class division, with very little upward mobility for those not fortunate enough to have rich parents and an overly socialist system that is against innovation and self realization.

I have lived in many developing countries and while I liked living in some of them, the backward local culture is usually the reason for it's developing status and those who tend to embrace it (i.e. Europeans in Thailand) tend to come accross as fools.

I love Europe, lived there for years in the U.S. military and traveled a lot, and I came to the same conclusion. Both Europeans and Americans tend to focus on the high-culture part of Europe, and ignore the chavs, cafones, ultras, soccer hooligans, lager louts, and the European version of trashy culture - dumb TV, empty Europop, and the obsession with porn in many places.

Social mobility is much greater in the USA, too. A poor kid can climb from a public school to community college to Ivy League grad school and certain professional success. In Europe, it's mostly all over and determined by age 12.

Really? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/us/har...wanted=all

Maybe it used to be like that but apparently not anymore.

However, props to America that it is able to maintain the illusion that everyone can make it. Not being sarcastic here, the mere belief in this myth is still powerful enough to let a few individuals achieve things that would hardly be possible under the same circumstances in any other place in the world.

Post: #43

(09-03-2013 04:22 PM)Flint Wrote:  

(09-01-2013 11:45 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  

(09-01-2013 07:57 PM)AsiaBaller Wrote:  As a European who has traveled a lot, I think the only culture worth embracing is the american culture. Althought the US is slowly turning into a police state, it's still the only culture of unapologetic self realization and innovation out there, with a fair chance for almost everyone.

Americans like to feel inferior to europeans for the lack of "culture", but in the end that's just upper middle class entertainment in a system of social class division, with very little upward mobility for those not fortunate enough to have rich parents and an overly socialist system that is against innovation and self realization.

I have lived in many developing countries and while I liked living in some of them, the backward local culture is usually the reason for it's developing status and those who tend to embrace it (i.e. Europeans in Thailand) tend to come accross as fools.

I love Europe, lived there for years in the U.S. military and traveled a lot, and I came to the same conclusion. Both Europeans and Americans tend to focus on the high-culture part of Europe, and ignore the chavs, cafones, ultras, soccer hooligans, lager louts, and the European version of trashy culture - dumb TV, empty Europop, and the obsession with porn in many places.

Social mobility is much greater in the USA, too. A poor kid can climb from a public school to community college to Ivy League grad school and certain professional success. In Europe, it's mostly all over and determined by age 12.

Really? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/us/har...wanted=all

Maybe it used to be like that but apparently not anymore.

However, props to America that it is able to maintain the illusion that everyone can make it. Not being sarcastic here, the mere belief in this myth is still powerful enough to let a few individuals achieve things that would hardly be possible under the same circumstances in any other place in the world.

Read the article closely. It does not prove your point.

Quote:The income compression in rival countries may also make them seem more mobile. Reihan Salam, a writer for The Daily and National Review Online, has calculated that a Danish family can move from the 10th percentile to the 90th percentile with $45,000 of additional earnings, while an American family would need an additional $93,000.

European nations are far more homogeneous, in income, race, and ethnicity. The U.S. has ghettos in Detroit and then Warren Buffet and Bill Gates. So, of course there will be a vast difference in incomes versus Europe.

In addition, the U.S. has half the population of all of Europe -- and fours time the population of Germany (Western Europe's most populous nation). So, the proper comparison is what would be the income distribution be if you compared top income earners in Germany to bottom income earners in Moldova.

If you are not lazy or irresponsible, you will do well in the U.S. I will say, however, that the U.S. is also at the brink of a cliff with its debt and welfare state spending. So there are better choices if you have a mobile source of income and want to avoid an ever-increasing nanny state akin to those in Western Europe.

Post: #44

(09-03-2013 12:08 PM)Volk Wrote:  Hungary. I would tell you why Colombian culture is as much of a farce as the American, but I am sure you would not believe me anyways. The thing is: I am a lot more integrated here and a hundred times happier, which is what really counts anyways.

Are you from Columbia? Could you tell us what you like about Hungary? For me in particular the acceptability of older guy/20's chicks is important.

I've heard a lot about Columbian flakiness, to me that's kind of a deal breaker, it seems an incontrovertible indicator of insincerity: "You say you'll do it and you don't..."

So fat the most accepting of old guy/youngchick seems to he Philippines.

Post: #45

Hungary. I would tell you why Colombian culture is as much of a farce as the American, but I am sure you would not believe me anyways. The thing is: I am a lot more integrated here and a hundred times happier, which is what really counts anyways.

Post: #46

Hungary. I would tell you why Colombian culture is as much of a farce as the American, but I am sure you would not believe me anyways. The thing is: I am a lot more integrated here and a hundred times happier, which is what really counts anyways.

Post: #47

Volk, you've posted the same text three times.

I too would be interested if you can answer iknowexactly's question.

Post: #48

(09-03-2013 07:41 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 12:08 PM)Volk Wrote:  Hungary. I would tell you why Colombian culture is as much of a farce as the American, but I am sure you would not believe me anyways. The thing is: I am a lot more integrated here and a hundred times happier, which is what really counts anyways.

I've heard a lot about Columbian flakiness, to me that's kind of a deal breaker, it seems an incontrovertible indicator of insincerity: "You say you'll do it and you don't..."

That is a Latin trait in general. Plumbers, electricians, and other service providers flake on a regular basis -- and they get paid to show up! I can just imagine the no-show ratio for the average Latin lizard.

I know a number of Americans and Canadians who moved to Latin America. Some of them are Americans with a Latin heritage who have an Anglo work ethic. They tell me that the average Latin American exists in the moment. Not too many think ahead. Once they earn enough money for awhile, they will simply blow off any scheduled work appointments -- and then show up at your door a few weeks later like nothing happened. It is part of the Latin culture. If you live there, you must adjust or you will be very unhappy.

On the other hand, you can make BIG money in the right niche supplying what the locals will not -- if you can survive the archaic bureaucratic jungle.

Post: #49

(09-01-2013 12:55 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  Men who travel in armed packs and randomly wipe out entire villages of people, rape women, and sell the children (who they don't kill) into slavery. Why? Simply because their victims were born into a different religion. Yea, real alpha behavior.

Respectfully, educate yourself. Watch "The Lost Boys of Sudan" and "Machine Gun Preacher" and then return and make educated comments.

There's nothing more alpha than killing, raping, and pillaging.

Nothing.

The more alpha a society is, the more that the scarce resources trickle up to the strongest - including money, goods, women, et cetera.

There's absolutely nothing alpha about cooperation, or helping your fellow man, woman, or child. There's nothing alpha about democracy, about rights, about freedoms protected by some government.

This is why the whole Roissy/I'm an Alpha attitude is dumb as shit. It's why lauding Putin, Berlusconi, and various other civilized tyrants is stupid.

In a true society where the Alphas rise to the top, where we let our masculine impulses reign uncontrollably you get developing countries. It's why Eastern Europe is basically the way it is. Same with India and China.

If the next man is always scheming, always looking to take you down - you can not cooperate.

The only way to get things done is via force or guile or deception.

That's not a place most so-called red pill Westerners really want to live.

WIA

Post: #50

I lived in the gulf Middle East for 2 years and hated it at the beginning then eventually accepted that it wasn't going to last forever and found my niche, instead of bars and clubs each weekend, I did shisha cafes and watched football (soccer) with other expats regularly. What I learned is that thinking the conveniences if home won't always exist. Yes you may have the same comforts of back home but to grow and not be depressed have an open mind and embrace local things.

Did I like it, no but learned to embrace it. On the other hand today I am living in colombia and loving every minute of it. Yes certain things don't get done on time or you have to wait for certain services but the other positives outweigh the negatives. Making local friends takes time anywhere. Knowing where to find the best prices or locations to eat etc. takes time as well.

There are pluses and minuses to every locality. My advice is for anybody looking to escape the rat race in the "west", well take that leap and it will be hard for the first month or so then you start accepting reality. You may have to visit a few places before you find your "niche". Don't listen to your friends or others who may be "jealous". Make your own path and a better life may be in your future.