Post: #26

(08-26-2013 06:31 PM)aphelion Wrote:  And that's great for her, but I noticed that a lot of salsa girls are chronically single. Now I know why - she constantly puts herself into regular mini-date situations where her ego is validated, but none are chosen. She spends a lot of time doing it, and now no guys are good enough for her because these B-level salsa guys keep coming around and asking her to dance and make her feel great (kinda like beta orbiters), and now Joe Equivalent To Her isn't quite enough of a superstar to catch her eye. And then she gets a cat.

I've been trying to put my finger on what's wrong with the girls I've dated who I met doing salsa or other social dancing. I think this is it. Profound.

Post: #27

Guys who are heavy into the salsa scene. Real pros, most of them are usually weak with the rest of their game (yes there are exceptions).

Salsa in moderation is great, I am going to take more lessons for the first time in 2013 again to brush up and practice.

Overall though you use it as a good excuse to sexualize and hang out.

Getting her to a salsa music venue doing a little dancing.
Getting rid of a lull in conversation, I don't have dictionary game or anything like that so it's a easy go to for a quick dance.

I learned basic salsa because of these reasons:
1. I had severe flexibility issues, dancing loosens you up a lot
2. My dance moves in general were weak, it changed the way I walked as well
3. I was on a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow level search for Latinas in my area
4. I booked a flight to Colombia 9 months in advance and knew my Spanish would be weak so needed a compensation factor
5. I didn't know shit about beats, hell I didn't even know there were 8 beats I thought there were only 3/4 (musical illiteracy).

You compound this by being in shape,
having logistics, good cash flow, dressing well and warming up with some day game... You can look in the mirror and know you're well prepared for battle

Post: #28

There's a lot of solid data in here on the salsa game.

I'm in it where I live so I'll add a couple of points:

1. If you're actually into the dancing, check your local meetup for salsa events. Most events are usually held at a restaraunt/lounge place that turns itself into a club a couple of nights a week. Most of these places will have a free class before the night begins -- free for beginners, if the class is any level higher than that, expect to pay $10.

In these settings, you're better off gaming beginners. Girls who are heavy into the scene are there moreso to enjoy the dance, not get scooped. They'll dance with you, say thank you when it's over, and move on.

The majority of females heavy in the scene (at least where I live) tend to be white.

2. The best chances for hooking up will be at traditional clubs that have advertised "latin nights". If you're not Latin, Latin women will be highly impressed with your skills. Salsa will be your "in" with them, and from there you show the rest of your game.

3. To the poster who said bachata in the U.S. is a waste of time, I think they need to change their perspective. The biggest radio station in Miami, El Zol, markets itself as the "official bachata and merengue station". When they do live broadcasts from clubs, they play 80% bachata for the entire night. I went back to NYC recently and it was everywhere. Most girls don't dance it very well, but they love the music.

My suggestion there is don't bother learning to dance it Dominican style unless you're going to frequent Dominican spots.

Post: #29

(08-26-2013 05:39 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  I am ridiculously busy this week, but one major theme I am seeing is EVERYTHING you do with American girls absolutely must seem "spontaneous, effort less and unplanned"

What I mean is don't tell bitches you are an instructor even if you are just say it's a "hobby". You don't lift weights you just kinda work out and just "happen" to look great. You don't know much about style you just happen to get the right stuff.

Basically, this movement is causing me to adjust my game.

I could write a data sheet on this movement if I had time.

Funny WestCoast articulated what I have felt over the last few years, but couldn't put into words. Letting girls know you try hard or put effort into anything always seems like a turnoff. I would look forward to the data sheet on this philosophy. The only word they are cool with hearing that sums all this effort up is "busy".

Girls want you perfect-packaged right out of the box.

Post: #30

(08-26-2013 10:32 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  Funny WestCoast articulated what I have felt over the last few years, but couldn't put into words. Letting girls know you try hard or put effort into anything always seems like a turnoff. I would look forward to the data sheet on this philosophy. The only word they are cool with hearing that sums all this effort up is "busy".

Girls want you perfect-packaged right out of the box.

Please elaborate on this, because it's interesting.

So do you want to be who you are or put in effort to pretend to be what the wrong girl wants you to be?

I mean, I fail to see the logic in pretending you don't dedicate time to the whatever your passions are in life, but we have to give props to girls for spending half a decade-plus in college studying bullshit.

Post: #31

Never - the furthest I got with girls from salsa class was numbers, but couldn't get them out for a date. But one of the guys in the class (not the trainer, just an experienced salsa guy who comes to beginner classes as a guest-of-honor (smart guy) banged several. It was surrela how much attention he attracted and how blatantly the girls were throwing themselves over him. I used to be envious of him before my game got better and I began emulating some of his techniques.

If you mean banging a girl at a club and opening by dancing salsa, then yes, but that's more about clubs than about salsa.

Post: #32

Roosh, keep in mind that the descriptions of the Salsa scene here is for America. You shouldn't let that influence your decision to learn how to dance.

I've been practicing Salsa, and I haven't gotten any bangs from it, but I'm not proficient in the dance yet. Regardless, because I do have extensive experience with many bangs in another dance, I can compare it to Salsa and give my thoughts.

1. One thing I've noticed though is that lots of Russian women dance Salsa. So I think if you could learn good salsa skills and go to Russia, an above-average Salsa dancer will have a major leg up in scoring bangs just because he will be exotic.

2. Salsa venues usually serve alcohol. This is bad. You want dance venues with no alcohol and are 18+. These are the prime spots for getting laid. Venues without alcohol have younger girls, plus they give you an excuse to bounce to go get drinks. Without having a reasonable way to pull women out of a dance venue, it is impossible to isolate because so many other guys are always going to cockblock you by asking the girl for a dance.

3. The Salsa crowd is getting old in America. Chicks of ages mainly between 18-30 dance swing, while chicks mainly between 27-45 dance salsa, and chicks mainly between 40-70(!) dance tango.

This fact alone had a major influence in determining what dance I focused on.

4. Salsa, like all forms of dance floor game, cannot be used as the main diet of a normal man's game. It is a supplement, much like online dating, except unlike online dating you can get very attractive women through dance floor game. That is why I called partner dancing the ultimate form of back-burner game.

No one should spend more than one day per week doing dance game unless they truly enjoy dancing, which will not be most men. Make dancing once per week a habit, and keep at it for at least 2 years before evaluating your results.

Post: #33

I primarily only got my bangs from dancing in DC. I bang non-dancing girls by using salsa. Bachata is better for esculation. The girl will esculate alot of times.

Post: #34

(08-26-2013 09:04 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  You can look in the mirror and know you're well prepared for battle

Ha! Your inner game is growing stronger. I can tell by this statement.

Looking in the mirror is everything. When you can look in the mirror and you know in your heart that you have done everything in your power to put yourself in the best possible position -- Girls will sense it. "You are prepared for battle!" You enter the battlefield with faith and conviction. There is no fear. You can fight instinctively and not be trapped in your own thoughts. You are at peace in the mists of battle.

You have "controlled all the controllables", you have corrected your weaknesses. There is a sort of inner tranquility that comes over you. This is authentic confidence, not "fake it til you make it" confidence.

We used to talk about Sober Confidence, I see you are getting it. When you are drunk or on drugs and you don't give a fuck, you should also feel that way when you are sober. You are almost there.

Post: #35

(08-26-2013 10:32 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 05:39 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  I am ridiculously busy this week, but one major theme I am seeing is EVERYTHING you do with American girls absolutely must seem "spontaneous, effort less and unplanned"

What I mean is don't tell bitches you are an instructor even if you are just say it's a "hobby". You don't lift weights you just kinda work out and just "happen" to look great. You don't know much about style you just happen to get the right stuff.

Basically, this movement is causing me to adjust my game.

I could write a data sheet on this movement if I had time.

Funny WestCoast articulated what I have felt over the last few years, but couldn't put into words. Letting girls know you try hard or put effort into anything always seems like a turnoff. I would look forward to the data sheet on this philosophy. The only word they are cool with hearing that sums all this effort up is "busy".

Girls want you perfect-packaged right out of the box.

Funny you guys mention that-I've been thinking about a data sheet on exactly that for months, just haven't got to it yet.

It's actually an ancient concept with a name. I'll try to get it done this week

Post: #36

As far as not using Salsa for day 2's; you absolutely can, and should.

• If it's a big group lesson and she is brand new, keep her dancing with just you, to show basics, and don't give her away. After the first cycle around, dudes will stop asking for a dance. Makes her feel protected. I tell her, "you bring out a protective feeling in me".
• If it's a big group lesson, and she is an experienced dancer, let her cycle around the room to dance with the other guys. You will get to dance with the other girls (jealously plotlines), and she will still be leaving with you after the lesson. Assuming she likes you (you're on a day 2, right?), all excitement and attraction she experiences will be transferred onto you at the end of the lesson.
• For day 2 salsa club nights w/o lessons, I dance with her for a few songs only to spike her buying temp. Then isolate in a dark corner, makeout, and bring home within an hour or so. Especially after a few drinks, this is the 2nd best way I've found to pull day 2's home, aside from late night beach tumbles.
• For Day 1's (instadates & online meets), then yes I would avoid Salsa. Too many distractions and not enough comfort built yet.
  

Post: #37

I've got a salsa bang from the kind you make in the kitchen. Serious.

Post: #38

(08-26-2013 12:05 PM)Roosh Wrote:  As in, have you banged a girl you met from salsa dancing?

Been there, done that, but that isn't the reason I started dancing salsa. But, having access to a lot of sexy women is definitely a nice perk. In major salsa markets like NYC, salsa can serve a lot of purposes, in terms of bangs, overall networking, making money, and so on.

In NYC, you have a lot of people from all over the world that come to NYC specifically to dance salsa so you can meet a lot of sexy women. Depending on what you like, there is something for everybody.

There are also great markets in places like Japan, London, Paris, and Greece. I've danced in all these places and its not hard to parlay the dance chemistry to something off the dance floor. You dance, get something to eat, drink ... The salsa scene is a worldwide community.

Besides salsa, bachata, merengue, tango, kizomba, and zouk are other dances that are popular in different parts. If you are in Europe Kizomba might be something worth pursuing with salsa. Here is an example:

Post: #39

^Kizomba is bigger than salsa in areas of europe (france, portugal) and growing like mad in other countries.

Roosh you should learn some basic steps. Well worth it

Last trip in Europe, i had a ONS from kizomba (2 hours after dancing with the girl she was naked in my bed), and a NNS (next night stand) also from kizomba

Post: #40

Kizomba is getting progressively popular all over the world and especially in EE. Fatties and old woman can't dance Kizomba because of the hip movement that is very pronounces - 99% of Kizomba dancing girls are hot! As you can see from the above video, Kizomba is a very simple dance with close body contact - always a welcome combination!
At a typical salsa social you will have about 40-50% women you wouldn't want to touch ( old, fat, hippie chicks with hairy leggs and sandals..)

To add to this thread : Salsa dancing is perfect to make social connections, not so much for pick up. Most of the points made in this tread are correct in my opinion. Too much validation going on,the hottest girls are always single and many girls have boyfriends who don't do dancing. Their boyfriends are happy you entertain their girlfriend for a couple of hours, then she comes back home all horny and have great sex with her bf.
The best way to get laid from salsa is to collect numbers at socials. Then text them later and arrange a meeting. Never ever openly hit on girls during socials though - everyone will see it! Most girls don't want to have a "taken" status so they can enjoy validation from all the guys on the floor. Even the hottest girl with a known boyfriend gets way less attention than a girl who perceived to be single! Guys have always a side agenda besides dancing...lol.

Post: #41

I have said for a long time you need to learn how to dance dance dance to get in her pants - because dancing is the human sexual mating ritual - if you dance well together normally the horizontal tango is not too bad either.

Was in a Salsa classes and social club in Honolulu in 2004 and 2005 - was more of the On-One West Coast Style. My favorite was the meringue as a basic two step could incorporate a lot of New York latin hustle type moves.

Problem now in the northeast USA is local clubs are either very hip hop centric or house techno centric with salsa mostly in the latin only clubs and hoods.

The typical scene in the local NE hip hop and or techno clubs is the Miley Cyrus MTV Twerking dance where two or three girls are dancing facing each other dancing on the floor while aggressive Rude Boy floor floaters come up behind them and start the twerking thump and grind with many young ladies just bending right over and hard rump thump pushing their asses up and down onto the guys boners like stripper rippers on a hard brass pole. Not a whole lot of dance skill or moves involved.

Really not too much classical arm in arm face to face dancing being done - more of a rump-her thump-her bone-her bang-her routine.

Can't remember outside of a ball room dancing situation last time I actually saw younger females actually slow dancing arm in arm face to face with the ever so subtle waist lift and slide of her mons venus on your muscular thigh to she if she is warmed up yet move. If they are dancing face to face more often than not it is the girl wildly mounting the guy with her legs wrapped around his waist and dry twerking humping or just plain jumping up and down in place - hard to maintain a proper left hand grip right small of the back grip with twerk rump hump thump bang bumping. So salsa style only seems useful lately in the northeast in the latin only clubs or ball room dancing venues imho.

Not that there is anything wrong with twerk rump hump thump bang bumping - what ever works worx - just not my particular suited up style.

Post: #42

(08-26-2013 06:31 PM)aphelion Wrote:  One more thing that I was just reminded of while chatting with a certain gentleman of RVF alignment:

Dancing events are kind of like social media. The girls stand around, a guy comes and asks them to dance. It's like a little insta-date. Or like a Facebook like. She feels good and gratified and her ego validated. 3 minutes later, she finishes the dance, some other guy comes and asks her to dance before she gets off the floor. Another date/like/whatever! And again, and again, and again. By the end of the night, her ego's been validated a billion times at the expense of all the men who came around and asked her to dance.

And that's great for her, but I noticed that a lot of salsa girls are chronically single. Now I know why - she constantly puts herself into regular mini-date situations where her ego is validated, but none are chosen. She spends a lot of time doing it, and now no guys are good enough for her because these B-level salsa guys keep coming around and asking her to dance and make her feel great (kinda like beta orbiters), and now Joe Equivalent To Her isn't quite enough of a superstar to catch her eye. And then she gets a cat.

As a rejoinder, I do another type of dance that's becoming pretty popular, and it's a pretty hippie population that dances it, with a surplus of girls, so the girls often come around and ask the guys to dance. I can sit out all night and wait for girls to ask me to dance, and by the end of the night my ego is sky high and I feel great. If I was a woman and got this all the time from salsa, I'd be a tyrant.

Aphelion - may we inquire what this other dance style is?

Post: #43

I’m becoming more acquainted with several ideas of game referred to in this forum. Nonetheless, I would say that in my more than 11 years of salsa dancing, I had been using salsa dance as a means to game girls and bang them.

My recent exposure to this forum has gotten me thinking that I need to figure out various ways to better incorporate game techniques into my salsa dancing. I do get quite a kick out of salsa dancing and the power of dancing with more than 20 girls in a 3 hour period – or even sometimes more than 40 girls in a 5 hour period. Recently, I have been thinking that just dancing in itself has not really been helping to get bangs because I had not been paying attention to following through, and sometimes leaving the club physically exhausted from several hours of dance… even with conflicting thoughts about whether it was fun or maybe if I should have followed up more with certain girls that I had met that evening.

Over the years, I had come to enjoying dance, and not necessarily pursuing the girls in the salsa dance scene. In this regard, frequently, I would not get their phone number or anything like that, and I would just expect to see them again at either another salsa venue or at the dance venue that I met them at some later unspecified time. In recent years, I have gone through periods that at least I obtain more phone numbers, but in recent years, I have not been getting as many bangs as I did when I started dancing. I attribute some of these changed dynamics to my age, and therefore, I need to play the game a little bit differently in my early 40s as compared to when I was in my early 30s.

I agree with a lot of the points made in this thread, and I think that guys are going to have their various dance experiences and some of those experiences definitely shed light on the dynamics of the salsa dance scene and how it can vary from location to location and still have some commonality (even international commonality).

For me, girl to guy ratio frequently has a considerable effect on how receptive girls are (or the extent to which they are bitchy), and good ratios can make for much better experiences. I mostly dance in southern California in the LA area, but I have salsa danced in DC, Cincinnati, Miami, Jacksonville, Minneapolis, Denver, Las Vegas, San Francisco, Tijuana, Puerto Vallarta. Atmospheres can make a difference, and believe it or not, I found DC women in the salsa scene to be more approachable than LA women in the salsa scene. However, frequently, if I attend some kind of international dance event with a lot of international women, these environments can be very nice because the international girls can show considerable excitement to dance, and in that sense the dance can be fairly international. Also, from what I hear about certain international venues, the ratio of men to women will vary, and I imagine that ratio is going to be a factor no matter where you are – and also including a guy’s otherwise exotic factor in whatever area he is in.

As Samseau mentioned many of the posts in this thread seem to be aimed at what is like in the USA, which may not reflect as well when you are travelling in other locations. Personally, at this time, I cannot really comment on the international vibe, yet I am looking forward to some upcoming plans to travel internationally and of course that will mean that I am going to want to incorporate my dance skills into my communication with local girls in those travels.

For the reason of girl to guy ratios, I have frequently attempted to find dance locations that have a high girl to guy ratio, and this is especially more important when you are a beginner dancer (yet it does not hurt, for the reasons described above, even when your dance skills go up). Also, many times, dance locations that have salsa dance lessons at the beginning will usually have more beginner female salsa dancers in the beginning of the night, and a couple hours into the night, the beginner female dancers go home and frequently, the dance ratios will become worse.. especially after about midnight (though this will vary depending on the venue – because sometimes you just get lucky and there is some big ass girl gathering party which improves the girl/guy ratio for the whole place).

When I began learning salsa dancing, I spent at least three days a week in learning (taking classes and going to clubs that had dance classes) (yes, I took some classes from Alex Da Silva, even though now he is locked up). In the beginning, I was pretty bad in several ways regarding physically coordinating movements to the beat, but my movements, style and fluidity improved with practice and certainly some people pick up more quickly than others and some people incorporate various kinds of styles into their dance. As a beginner, my goal was to persist in learning salsa, and later, I incorporated chachacha, merengue and bachata (but without really formally learning those other genres).

Frequently, when I was a beginner dancer, I would only go to the club for the lesson, and then I would dance with as many girls as I could until the beginners were gone. Then I would go home, and save my energy for the next event (of course I had to work also, so there are only so many hours in the day). In the beginning, I was focused in getting better at dance, and then I would go home once the momentum was lost. As I got better, I was able to stay at dance events later and later, and it became easier and easier to dance with a larger variety and hotter girls, and I was no longer relocated to dancing only with beginner dancers because in the beginning mostly only beginner dancers would dance with me and possibly only one or two songs – and that would cause me to frequently rotate venues in order to constantly be exposed to more girls. After a while, the new girls would not necessarily realize that I did not know what I was doing, and part of the deal would be to inspire confidence, so the girl would come to believe that I knew what I was doing (whether true or not).

Probably for the purposes of game, you may not really need to become too advanced in your dancing skills in order to use salsa to pick-up chicks. Even in LA with some difficult women, frequently, there will be events that have several girls that would be easy to get their numbers and to close (for guys at various levels of dance and/or game), most likely getting the bang on a separate date, as many have indicated, and sometimes, being able to close that same night. Getting bangs depends on the focus of the guy, because if they guy wants to get SNL, they are possible if you focus on the beginner girls, and frequently, I find there are beginner girls at various dance venues. And, if you otherwise know, game you will be better able to spot and take advantage of the most opportune situations – no matter what your dance level.

Sorry this post ended up being a little bit longer than I anticipated.

Post: #44

(08-29-2013 02:34 AM)Deepdiver Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 06:31 PM)aphelion Wrote:  One more thing that I was just reminded of while chatting with a certain gentleman of RVF alignment:

Dancing events are kind of like social media. The girls stand around, a guy comes and asks them to dance. It's like a little insta-date. Or like a Facebook like. She feels good and gratified and her ego validated. 3 minutes later, she finishes the dance, some other guy comes and asks her to dance before she gets off the floor. Another date/like/whatever! And again, and again, and again. By the end of the night, her ego's been validated a billion times at the expense of all the men who came around and asked her to dance.

And that's great for her, but I noticed that a lot of salsa girls are chronically single. Now I know why - she constantly puts herself into regular mini-date situations where her ego is validated, but none are chosen. She spends a lot of time doing it, and now no guys are good enough for her because these B-level salsa guys keep coming around and asking her to dance and make her feel great (kinda like beta orbiters), and now Joe Equivalent To Her isn't quite enough of a superstar to catch her eye. And then she gets a cat.

As a rejoinder, I do another type of dance that's becoming pretty popular, and it's a pretty hippie population that dances it, with a surplus of girls, so the girls often come around and ask the guys to dance. I can sit out all night and wait for girls to ask me to dance, and by the end of the night my ego is sky high and I feel great. If I was a woman and got this all the time from salsa, I'd be a tyrant.

Aphelion - may we inquire what this other dance style is?

Fusion. It's basically a mishmash of whatever. Tango dancers, blues dancers, swing dancers, etc. all show up and just do partner dancing to anything from old spirituals to dubstep and everything in between. It's starting to catch on.

Post: #45

(08-26-2013 12:05 PM)Roosh Wrote:  As in, have you banged a girl you met from salsa dancing? I've been pretty down on salsa for a while, but my dancing is getting rusty and I was thinking of taking lessons to get moving again. Just curious if guys think there are sexual benefits of salsa on top of regular approaching.

Previous salsa threads:

-Should I take Salsa lessons?

-converting Salsa/Dancing game

Prior to seeing this posting, I had not come accross the salsa dance links that you provided.

Related to this topic, some of these other threads may have useful info as well:
/thread-3419.html
/thread-4818.html
/thread-5002.html
/thread-10313.html

@ Roosh: After re-reading your original post, it seems that you are disinclined to invest too much time into dance. I know sometimes there may be differences in personal preferences concerning the music or just the ROI concerning how much time a guy may have to invest into it with the potentially limited payoff in terms of bangs.
I do admit that salsa dancing can be a time-consuming hobby, which may not be a suitable investment for everyone because the dance scene, just like the club scene, has its hit or miss factor, and many times there will be better male dancers that may or may not interfere with the bang. I would think that likely the presence of other male dancers who are more experienced in dance would not necessarily interfere as much with someone who has a variety of game skills.

Personally, in one of these dance threads, I had been considering describing some of my experiences salsa dancing with different women, and sometimes the problematic nature of dancing with women when the woman starts to act as if she does not want to follow and how to deal with that. Usually, out of courtesy, I will finish dancing the song with those kinds of women and then do not ask them to dance again. On a very rare occasion, I have abandoned the girl on the dance floor, but she has to be pretty extreme in her unwillingness to follow for me to do that. Even in the situation where I have written the girl off of my dance list, sometimes there are exceptions because the girl may later decide and communicate to me that she DOES want to follow me (for whatever reason), and IF SHE IS OTHERWISE ACCEPTABLE, I WILL PUT HER BACK ON MY DANCE LIST.

Post: #46

from my experience in canada, a lot of young white girls like more to dance swing than salsa.

Post: #47

(08-26-2013 12:05 PM)Roosh Wrote:  As in, have you banged a girl you met from salsa dancing? I've been pretty down on salsa for a while, but my dancing is getting rusty and I was thinking of taking lessons to get moving again. Just curious if guys think there are sexual benefits of salsa on top of regular approaching.

Previous salsa threads:

-Should I take Salsa lessons?

-converting Salsa/Dancing game

Salsa is awesome for guys who wanna do lazy mans game.

It's a good social circle to bring new people into, bang them and move on as everyone in the social group seems to be banging a lot.

Plus a lot of the girls seem more sexual....I think this (unsurprisingly) is because they spend a lot of time touching/being touched by men.


In terms of Salsa itself....it gives most guys really good leading, kinoing skills, plus helps make their movements and BL much smoother.

Post: #48

(08-26-2013 12:28 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  Source: Experienced, advanced-level salsa dancer.

Here's a actual video I took of Tuthmosis showing off some of his easier, more basic dance moves:

Post: #49

The thing that is great about salsa is you can be a fat Indian guy from London and, as long as you can dance, you will have women lined up to dance with you. I have some friends that have gone to places like Rostov and literally had women waiting in line to dance with them and they were average dancers. The women in Japan will also line up.

Post: #50

Same thing works in Mexico