Post: #26

Mack Four Wrote:It would not be constructive to call people out by name. Such a provocation would not be productive. Putting people on the defensive about their individual views would only serve to exacerbate the problem I'm trying to address.

This seems reasonable, except that I have no reason to trust your take on the Zimmerman thread and I have some reason to doubt it. Citing individual posts and posters is only one way to support the assertion. Another one would be to do a meta-analysis of the thread as a whole. Another tactic would be to provide the One True Answer to the Zimmerman issue, indirectly highlighting the problems.

Post: #27

(08-04-2013 10:45 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 04:31 PM)scorpion Wrote:  The most annoying thing about race issues in this country is how absurdly one-sided they are, which has been exemplified over and over in recent events. Zimmerman shoots a man who was banging his head into the pavement, but because he was black, the media creates a narrative to generate national outrage.

Whoa! If there's anything that's "absurdly one-sided," it's this patently false summation you just made.

Correction: Wannabe cop Zimmerman aggressively profiled an unarmed teenage boy who rightfully began running before Zimmerman, against the 911 operator's instruction, got out of his vehicle and pursued him on foot. Zimmerman was armed. Martin was not. Martin ended up dead with only skittles and iced tea in his possession. Zimmerman acquitted. Certainly cause for national outrage.

Scorpion's account is not false. His account and yours focus on different available facts and the opinions are informed by different values and biases.

Quote:

(08-04-2013 04:31 PM)scorpion Wrote:  Professional football player Riley Cooper gets drunk and has some kind of altercation with a black person and calls him a nigger in anger, and is currently in the midst of character assassination exceeding that which was applied to players who were accused murderers and convicted animal abusers.

Kinda ironic that Cooper chose a profession where the majority of his colleagues are, in fact, black men. I can see his teammates, coaches, sponsors and fans being uncomfortable with him as a result of his awfully poor choice of words. That's on him. He should know better being in the position that he's in. The dollar, again, carries weight.

This is a very good point and I agree completely. However it does not address the point scorpion was making, which is that the media and authorities have not been content to let teammates, coaches, sponsors, and fans judge the man fairly.

(Personally I haven't been following that issue and don't know whether scorpion's assessment of media reaction is accurate.)

Post: #28

(08-04-2013 04:31 PM)scorpion Wrote:  Professional football player Riley Cooper gets drunk and has some kind of altercation with a black person and calls him a nigger in anger, and is currently in the midst of character assassination exceeding that which was applied to players who were accused murderers and convicted animal abusers.

I don't see anyone calling for Cooper's execution.

Post: #29

I am 16 and I live in a foster home and during the summer I have absurd amounts of free time and all I do (can do honestly) is read books and scroll the internet or go out with the guys that live there and just check out the city (usually do it when I relocate to a different foster home) and I can honestly say my life (I can't speak for any of you other G's) is simply to short to deal with anything regarding race. I simply take decisive action when it comes to those matters. When people tell me that my neighborhood is safe, I laugh, nod and walk. I know what to do when I walk in unsafe parts of my city be it black, hispanic, white and asian (where I live its mostly black). I've always been an optimistic guy, so no matter how much any race of people fucked me over (black people fucked me over the most, one dude stole my christmas gift bike) I still remain optimistic and aggressively search for cool people of any race (I still don't have a black friend yet because this white guy I saw get jumped by a bunch of black people told me this after he got up ''don't let a bunch of rotten apple tree's ruin every apple in the world, I found out the dude went to Africa a bunch of times shortly after). Its true, letting one or many dudes of any race change your whole perspective on the WHOLE ENTIRE people of that race, somethings up. If I do find a black friend thats like the rest of my other friends (all red pill) I won't treat that son of a bitch any different from the rest of them, we will smoke weed, talk shit and chill together with the rest of the boys.

Post: #30

(08-03-2013 01:35 PM)Mack Four Wrote:  Race is a social construct

No it's not. We all have genetic nuances that make us different.

However, the rest of your post is on point - having different skin colour isn't really any different from having different hair colour. Different cultural norms do tend to scare people though.

Post: #31

(08-04-2013 11:10 PM)Blaster Wrote:  This seems reasonable, except that I have no reason to trust your take on the Zimmerman thread and I have some reason to doubt it. Citing individual posts and posters is only one way to support the assertion. Another one would be to do a meta-analysis of the thread as a whole. Another tactic would be to provide the One True Answer to the Zimmerman issue, indirectly highlighting the problems.

Let me preface this by saying that I did not come to this board in order to punch guys in the nose and go around telling everybody what's what. I respect the community and want to contribute something positive to it. I've seen good communities fracture into factions and fall into ruin over this issue, and tried to add a little perspective.

My position on Zimmerman is this: the whole fiasco is about ratings and politics, race is just the bait. It's like watching a bass tournament where no one's talking about the fish or the fishermen but everyone's arguing about the worms. I think the people who let themselves get worked up about race are just playing into the hands of power brokers who use that division to further enrich and empower themselves.

Poor whites and poor blacks have more in common with each other than they do with Wall Street or Hollywood, but that's who they identify with instead of each other. I only wish more of them realized that they're being used and that by remaining divided are keeping themselves disenfranchised.

Post: #32

(08-04-2013 08:06 PM)Kabal Wrote:  2. A lot of us travel a lot, and see the massive differences in how we are received from country to country, and even city to city. Hence the Nordic men in Latin America, black guys in Sweden, and Asian guys in Mediterranean Europe memes.

Wait I must have missed this one - are you saying cities of south Italy, Greece, and Croatia-Serbia are a poosy paradise for Asian guys?
[/quote]

According to multiple anecdotal accounts on this board; yes (hence why I call it a meme).

I should be finding out firsthand before year end as far as Greece goes; I will report back when the time comes.
[/quote]

Goddamnit, I knew I should have taken French instead of boring ass mandarin. I'm going back to Italy and France fosho now

Post: #33

I respectfully disagree with some of the points that you made. Race most certainly is not a social construct: anthropologists and geneticists are both able to deviate a person's race by their bone structure or dna haplogroup. Also different races are susceptible to different diseases: Jews are more susceptible to tay-sachs and reimanns disease; blacks are prone to get sickle-cell disease; and white people are more particularly susceptible to getting cystic fibrosis. Time and time again, diversity leads to more civil strife than it does harmony. Look at Yugoslavia, look at Brazil, look at Rwanda, look at Detroit. Studies also show that homogenous societies tend to have happier populations. Actually, people have this chemical called oxytocin in their system, which makes them more likely to associate and identify with people of their own race; it's primarily common among men with higher levels of testosterone, as well as pregnant moms. As for me, I've never really believe in the global village. I certainly have ethnic friends (filipino, vietnamese, venezuelan, chinese, mexican), but for some reason I cannot see how the melting pot is a boon for any country. If anything it's always been a divisive thing. One group always has an axe to grind with the other; it's a rather unhealthy environment. White people have just about always been the favorite punching bag of the media and other anti-social institutions: the NAACP, La Raza, secondary education, the ACLU, the ADL, the list goes on and on. I don't know about you, but I don't want to co-exist with other groups that hate me for something I have no control over.

Post: #34

(08-06-2013 12:04 AM)numanist Wrote:  I respectfully disagree with some of the points that you made. Race most certainly is not a social construct: anthropologists and geneticists are both able to deviate a person's race by their bone structure or dna haplogroup. Also different races are susceptible to different diseases: Jews are more susceptible to tay-sachs and reimanns disease; blacks are prone to get sickle-cell disease; and white people are more particularly susceptible to getting cystic fibrosis. Time and time again, diversity leads to more civil strife than it does harmony. Look at Yugoslavia, look at Brazil, look at Rwanda, look at Detroit. Studies also show that homogenous societies tend to have happier populations. Actually, people have this chemical called oxytocin in their system, which makes them more likely to associate and identify with people of their own race; it's primarily common among men with higher levels of testosterone, as well as pregnant moms. As for me, I've never really believe in the global village. I certainly have ethnic friends (filipino, vietnamese, venezuelan, chinese, mexican), but for some reason I cannot see how the melting pot is a boon for any country. If anything it's always been a divisive thing. One group always has an axe to grind with the other; it's a rather unhealthy environment. White people have just about always been the favorite punching bag of the media and other anti-social institutions: the NAACP, La Raza, secondary education, the ACLU, the ADL, the list goes on and on. I don't know about you, but I don't want to co-exist with other groups that hate me for something I have no control over.

But it is a mistake to focus on differing races. The real problems white face isn't other races, but other whites themselves. It is whites who control the media and fuel the race war against other whites.

The entire "diversity" movement is led by liberal whites against conservative whites. Liberals are more than willing to sell their own kind out for the vote. And ultimately, this is why I do not side with any race. I do not believe for even a second that just because someone is white that they are looking out for my best interests. In fact, quite the contrary.

At the end of the day, most black people have been killed by other blacks, and most white people have been killed by other whites. Intra-racial violence is always higher than inter-racial violence. The worst atrocities on white people have always come from other whites. The civil wars and corrupt governments whites have destroyed themselves with over the ages have killed far more whites than the Muslims, Blacks, and Asians put together.

It is also debatable if it is even possible for a race to wage war on another race for any sustained period of time, since victorious men will impregnate the enemies women. Their children will resemble both their parents thus avoiding a division of races. Over time, races tend to merge or conquer one another so it follows that most wars will occur between members of the same race versus members of another race simply because of proximity.

Thus I agree with nearly everything you say, except for the idea that you should trust members of your own group simply because they look like you.

Post: #35

Post: #36

Samseau made a comment that mixing will do away with racism etc and I don't know if I agree with that. Brasil is an extremely mixed country and although I haven't gone there..it appears that the country is represented by the lightest group or the ones who are most European etc.

Although it is the country with the SECOND largest black population (70 million) in the world only after NIGERIA, you would never know that to look at media representing Brasil. And that 70 million is probably the ones who are undisputedly black looking and probably the ones mixed with black and white are probably counted as other, correct me if I am wrong.

My point is that racism is not a biological construct and thus will not be quashed by biological integration but by cultural understanding.

Brasil might be the most, if not one of the most mixed countries in the world and yet they still need affirmative action there to give the 'blacks' there a fair shot. So all that big ass and kissing in the clubs stuff is all a smoke screen.

It may take an attack from aliens from outer space to temporarily squash the squabbles and put aside the differences but probably when there is peace, people will once again form their groups and create myths to substantiate those groups and justify why their group is 'better' than the other.

Post: #37

I troll every black girl I bang as to why they don't date black guys. Not putting the comments here, but if they were to come from a white girl, well........

It nukes the hamster when I tell them:

   

Post: #38

(08-06-2013 06:21 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  I troll every black girl I bang as to why they don't date black guys. Not putting the comments here, but if they were to come from a white girl, well........

It nukes the hamster when I tell them:

You find girls like that in every race. It all evens out. I've heard ignorant things said about White guys from White girls, Asian guys from Asian girls, etc. I know Puerto Rican guys that swear Puerto Rican women are the worst women on the planet.

It is what it is.

Post: #39

(08-05-2013 04:28 AM)Architekt Wrote:  

(08-03-2013 01:35 PM)Mack Four Wrote:  Race is a social construct

No it's not. We all have genetic nuances that make us different.

However, the rest of your post is on point - having different skin colour isn't really any different from having different hair colour. Different cultural norms do tend to scare people though.

Race means nothing. From a genetic/biological standpoint your "race" only effects about 2% (if that) of everything that creates you.

Example: The Black African;

I am Black.

That does not mean anything though in the grand scheme of things. There are close to 70 different ethnic groups in Kenya alone, in the whole of Africa nobody even truly knows, estimates are in the hundreds, but my honest own personal take is close to a thousand counting smaller fringe groups whom have smaller groups but are still ethnically distinct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Africa

Look at history and more blood was drawn of ethnicity and class versus race.

Race was/is used as a simple wedge to divide populations, its used as a means to politically make things expedient but in the big picture it was always used as tool to stir conflict. It means nothing.

Look at the scope and size we are dealing with, again with Africa people seem to forget how large the place is and I used it as key example because it is constantly ripped on for us "Black folks", "over there" not being able to work together" yet nobody faults the Chinese for beefing with their ethnic rivals in the Western and Northern regions, or the Russians with is Islamic blocs in its southern region, nobody blinked when Canadians beefed with ethnically distinct Francaphones, but a continent larger then any other some how has to figure out how to easily get close to 100 distinct groups of people to work together overnight?


{Enlarged}

...

Sure.

Now looking at Ethnicity here is a map of the same region that looks more chaotic and shows its true complexity:



These are real fault lines as they exist in Europe, Asia, or any other large land area..

If we talk about ethnicity and culture which bring up traits and idioms that carry on and get passed down through generations then we have something that carries weight but again that transcends race.

Race means nothing, class and ethnicity mean everything, and neither is dependant on your race.

Post: #40

Quote:Race means nothing, class and ethnicity mean everything, and neither is dependant on your race.

Many traits are biologically heritable.

And yes, strictly speaking "black" is not a race. It's believed that there's far more genetic distance between different populations in Africa than between all of Europe put together.

Post: #41

Quote:But it is a mistake to focus on differing races. The real problems white face isn't other races, but other whites themselves. It is whites who control the media and fuel the race war against other whites.

The entire "diversity" movement is led by liberal whites against conservative whites. Liberals are more than willing to sell their own kind out for the vote. And ultimately, this is why I do not side with any race. I do not believe for even a second that just because someone is white that they are looking out for my best interests. In fact, quite the contrary.

I agree with you to some extent: white liberals are a huge problem. I work with a white liberal co-worker who always bemoans "racism" and "slavery" on a daily basis. He also is a conspiracy theorist who thinks the churches, corporations, and the government are all in collusion to oppress black, hispanic, and asian people. Furthermore, he whined vociferously about the number of immigrants being accepted into this country as, "too low". "Yeah, as if any other country in the world accepts more immigrants than America".

One item I have to disagree with you on is media control: the media is not run by white people but it is run by semites. It is well documented that Jews run most of the media industry; something like 42 of the 46 top executives in hollywood and the media are Jews; also, the screen-actors guild president is Jewish. In proportion to their numbers, Jews are much overrepresented in the media as news anchors, actors, actresses, directors, and screenwriters. This explains why their is such a left-wing ideological bent to most things on TV. Something like 80% of Jews describe themselves as orthodox liberals.

From the horses mouth: Joel Stein's article on Jewish media control

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/comm...183.column

Post: #42

(08-06-2013 06:16 AM)Moma Wrote:  Samseau made a comment that mixing will do away with racism etc and I don't know if I agree with that. Brasil is an extremely mixed country and although I haven't gone there..it appears that the country is represented by the lightest group or the ones who are most European etc.

I don't think Brasil and the US can be compared as equals with respect to the topic of race. They've both had historically distinct ways of dealing with that issue.

In the case of Brazil, I think the reason why you find economic differences between people generally based on skin color is because of the absence of racism of the kind found in the US, not because of it. However, that's precisely the reason why Brazil is more socially advanced than the US in terms of race.

Brazil was late in abolishing slavery: 1889 (the last country in the Americas to do so). And after slavery ended, no program arose to promote the integration of blacks, which was an ironic byproduct of Jim Crow in the US - it forced blacks of all kinds to fight for economic and social equality, hence today blacks in the US being the most economically empowered kind in the world.

In Brazil, when blacks began migrating to urban areas, black women played a crucial role because they could get jobs there, particularly as maids. The men moving from the countryside to the cities formed the first wave of marginalized people, the first slums. So it took a long time to integrate blacks into a changing capitalist, market-based society. They had very low levels of education and remained mostly in the informal sector. This is a marked contrast from the millions of European immigrants who moved to Brazil during the 20th century, and whom possessed industrial skills, hence their prominence in the handling of many of the country's affairs.

Brazil never had what has always been commonplace in the US: races characterized legally as separate groups. They never had any equivalent of Jim Crow or legal segregation after the end of slavery.

Brazil also doesn’t have the sense of racial distinctions by blood. They never had this idea that one drop of “colored” blood makes a person “non-white.” The largest self-reported category in their census is simply "Brazilian."

In fact, the United States is the only country in the Western hemisphere that instituted the "one-drop rule." The US is also the only country to have instituted Jim Crow segregation laws following the end of slavery (for nearly 100 years officially, and still de facto in many places). Meanwhile, Brazilians were allowed to mix and integrate following the abolishing of slavery, and many, in fact, did just that. It is hard in Brazil to tell another’s precise lineage by appearance, because there are many mixed-race people with many shades of skin color. But the important thing is that no one cares. This puts the country in an odd situation. It allows it some social flexibility, but it also disguises prejudice. Its relatively liberal attitudes lead many to think that there are no significant problems, but this is not so.

Economic inequality in Brazil is certainly higher than in the US, but social attitudes towards race, on a whole, are definitely much better. I don't think most people who are deeply familiar with both cultures would tell you otherwise. You can even see in the televnovelas the presence of black males engaging in steamy sex scenes with beautiful women who are, for lack of a better term, "white." That's simply not the case in the US. Blacks in the US are better off economically and educationally than their Brazilian counterparts, but that's not due to racism, but the fact that the US has done a better job to improve economic opportunity for all (thanks to the countless social movements from different groups demanding for equality in this country). A big reason for that is that most blacks and people in Brazil generally identify as "Brazilians" but not as belonging to one race, unlike Americans. The official data for tracking racial disparity simply hasn't been there to the extent that you find in the US, but that's been changing in recent times.

The influence of African culture in Brazil is higher than any country outside of Africa. Brazil has more people of some level of African descent than any country in the world after Nigeria.

No one is saying there is no racism in Brazil, but as a black man, I'd feel more comfortable just about anywhere in that country, controlling for language and economic circumstance, than in many parts of the US where racism and racial animosity is endemic (most of the deep south, etc).

Another important fundamental difference is that in Brazil they don't have a “white culture” and “black culture” like we have in the US. Their music is black and white, and so is the food. The culture is essentially mixed, blended. Blacks became more accepted as part of Brazilian heritage because of the arts, and because of sports. They had integrated professional sports teams LONG before the US integrated theirs. Just have a look at Brazil's first world cup team and then go study when the US finally integrated MLB and the NBA. Brazil's greatest novelist, Machado de Assis, was a mulatto, but nobody identifies him that way. He didn’t write “black novels” as far as most people there are concerned; he wrote Brazilian ones.

Post: #43

Hen, the only difference with the US that I find is that they let you know where you stand by and large. They were never a country known for pussyfooting around until this new PC machine. Canada, UK and the other commonwealth countries have blacks intermingling but they are never in high concentrations in the places that count..places of economic influence and importance. This is not accidental.

You are quoting stuff like seeing people on tv kissing Europeans..that don't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Some of the most 'racist' countries have lizards that are very favourable to minorities. I have an African friend who partially grew up in Russia. He could never travel alone but he fcuked the finest European lizards ever and his game wasn't even all that.

Again with all the fanfare and the interracial love that Brasil has shown..I find it interested that even myself didn't know the HUGE African population that existed there due to the deliberate subjugation that is done by the media so that the country doesn't appear to too black.

Post: #44

   

I'm going to download this to my phone. Every time a girl of color rejects me, I'm going to show it to her.

Post: #45

(08-06-2013 01:36 PM)Moma Wrote:  Hen, the only difference with the US that I find is that they let you know where you stand by and large. They were never a country known for pussyfooting around until this new PC machine. Canada, UK and the other commonwealth countries have blacks intermingling but they are never in high concentrations in the places that count..places of economic influence and importance. This is not accidental.

You are quoting stuff like seeing people on tv kissing Europeans..that don't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Some of the most 'racist' countries have lizards that are very favourable to minorities. I have an African friend who partially grew up in Russia. He could never travel alone but he fcuked the finest European lizards ever and his game wasn't even all that.

Again with all the fanfare and the interracial love that Brasil has shown..I find it interested that even myself didn't know the HUGE African population that existed there due to the deliberate subjugation that is done by the media so that the country doesn't appear to too black.

You really should visit Brazil to get a firsthand understanding of the social dynamic there. I've been there several times and even the most race-conscious people I know who have been will agree that racism as is known elsewhere is quite muted there.

Brazil is the most socially advanced country I've ever been to personally. Keep in mind it's not only a country with a large number of blacks but it also has the largest Japanese population outside of Japan and is home to the largest population of Lebanese people in the world (even more than in Lebanon). Yet you won't find racial/ethnic tension as it exists in most other parts of the world. The level of social cohesion in Brazil is pretty remarkable.

Post: #46

Quote:Race is a social construct

I like the general spirit of your post, but this is liberal hogwash.

Post: #47

Most people are racist. Most people are not excessively so and quite capable of tolerance and avoiding discriminatory behavior.

Meanwhile most people in the US are suppressed racists, living under unreasonably restrictive social taboos instead of a healthy attitude towards tolerance and discrimination. In this thread, I would wager the tension blackglasses observes is not fear of criminality or even racial contempt. The whites are afraid he'll think they are racist. Which is ironically exactly what happens. This also leads to a variety of other annoying behaviors like the tendency to make lame race jokes all the time (to test the boundaries of the taboo).

The US has a legitimate issue with institutional discrimination as well and the effects are not limited to Jim Crow and segregation. But IR is WAY overplayed by politicians pandering and gerrymandering for electoral advantage and activists looking to fund some pet project (aka limousine liberals and race hustling activists and academics).

Post: #48

(08-06-2013 03:08 PM)Blaster Wrote:  Most people are racist. Most people are not excessively so and quite capable of tolerance and avoiding discriminatory behavior.

Meanwhile most people in the US are suppressed racists, living under unreasonably restrictive social taboos instead of a healthy attitude towards tolerance and discrimination.

I don't agree that most Americans are racist. I don't even think most guys on this forum are racist.

As bad as some of the race threads have been, it's been mild compared to what you'll see on forums with real bigots.

But then, if you're defining racism to include every last iota of bias and every remaining stereotype a person may have about other races, then sure, almost everyone is racist.

I personally don't think it makes sense to call someone racist who generally deals amicably with people from all racial and ethnic groups, and who isn't prone to judge individuals merely on account of their background. By my definition, I rarely encounter genuine racists in America, especially among whites.

Post: #49

(08-06-2013 01:50 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  You really should visit Brazil to get a firsthand understanding of the social dynamic there. I've been there several times and even the most race-conscious people I know who have been will agree that racism as is known elsewhere is quite muted there.

Brazil is the most socially advanced country I've ever been to personally. Keep in mind it's not only a country with a large number of blacks but it also has the largest Japanese population outside of Japan and is home to the largest population of Lebanese people in the world (even more than in Lebanon). Yet you won't find racial/ethnic tension as it exists in most other parts of the world. The level of social cohesion in Brazil is pretty remarkable.

I will visit. I've wanted to ever since I was in the UK. And tell me, who holds the economic clout in the country? Is it as equally dispersed as the social climate you describe? Or is it in the graps of the usual few? I would love to see that and be proven wrong.

Post: #50

(08-06-2013 06:16 AM)Moma Wrote:  Samseau made a comment that mixing will do away with racism etc and I don't know if I agree with that. Brasil is an extremely mixed country and although I haven't gone there..it appears that the country is represented by the lightest group or the ones who are most European etc.

Although it is the country with the SECOND largest black population (70 million) in the world only after NIGERIA, you would never know that to look at media representing Brasil. And that 70 million is probably the ones who are undisputedly black looking and probably the ones mixed with black and white are probably counted as other, correct me if I am wrong.

My point is that racism is not a biological construct and thus will not be quashed by biological integration but by cultural understanding.

Brasil might be the most, if not one of the most mixed countries in the world and yet they still need affirmative action there to give the 'blacks' there a fair shot. So all that big ass and kissing in the clubs stuff is all a smoke screen.

It may take an attack from aliens from outer space to temporarily squash the squabbles and put aside the differences but probably when there is peace, people will once again form their groups and create myths to substantiate those groups and justify why their group is 'better' than the other.

It may very well be that it is human nature to discriminate and have group preferences. If true, then no amount of government interference can create equality. Eventually, on a long enough timeline, group preferences would win out.