Post: #151

Racial profiling again
http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/vi...eqyyVWGBOU

Post: #152

(07-27-2013 11:37 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  http://www.blackwallstreet.freeservers.c...0Story.htm

The Gap Band made a song about this event - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Dropped_a_Bomb_on_Me

Rudebwoy, I agree with you that a lot of these things have been glossed over, and that so many people are ignorant of history.

But with that in mind, the author (Ron Wallace?) does a disservice to readers when he doesn't do even basic homework around the word "picnic".

http://www.snopes.com/language/offense/picnic.asp

Otherwise, I'd say the article does a decent enough job of explaining the event.

Post: #153

That Black Americans and other minorities are forced into crime for historical reasons, but that it would still be beneficial to them to not use that as an excuse for their current plights, are two assertions that are both true and not mutually exclusive IMO.

Of course slavery and other wrongs from the past still has an impact today. But using that as an excuse, even though it is a very valid one, can cement and perpetuate their situation.

Post: #154

(07-27-2013 07:25 PM)Samseau Wrote:  The issue of whether or not blacks kept their identities is moot. No slave has an identity, they are property of their masters. The question should be what kind of treatment all of these slaves suffered, and to think that Black American slaves had it the worst isn't believable.

(By the way, Arabs did have an identity under the Ottoman empire that lasted for hundreds of years.)

The Spartan's slave empire treated slaves like dirt and they were hunted for fun.

Both the Greeks and Romans gave no rights to slaves and they could be killed by the owner for any reason at all.

Muslims took war prisoners and also made slaves of millions over many centuries.

East Asia also had periods of vast slave farms as well. Look up at how the Great Wall of China was built, those laborers weren't called slaves but they were slaves for all intents and purposes.

Virtually all peoples in all continents have been subjected to various forms of oppression, and nearly all of them have suffered the worst kinds of deprivations imaginable, both at the hands of invaders and their own government.

But none have had the unique experience of American-style slavery. You still haven't been able to bring up an example where chattel slavery was practiced on people who came from different cultures, ethnic groups, languages, and completely dehumanized and forced to adopt new identities and stripped from their histories.

Also, to point out the obvious, you are not a black person in America. What credibility do you even have to talk about the effects that slavery and Jim Crow has on a black person and to compare those experiences against others? You don't "feel" the black experience. Someone in your shoes should show a bit of restraint instead of overreaching into areas you are literally ignorant about. You sound ridiculous. You have yet to formulate a cogent argument to challenge the points made by Tim Wise, a man who has studied the issue of race in this country and has come to many of the same conclusions I have. Rather than show any evidence that you possess arguments to rebut his claim, you've incessantly brought up his address.

In fact, you come across as an angry white conservative which, sorry to tell you, is a dying breed in the US that is increasingly being marginalized (for good reason). Using emotion to argue this topic while absent of coherent facts does not appeal to logic.

You talk about the transatlantic slave trade as if it's a cakewalk. I doubt you would have even survived the Middle Passage, yet you suggest those who did are weak. Quite the contrary.

Also, looking at this issue clearly along political lines is silly on your part. Race trumps political affiliation. Republican/Democrat, it doesn't matter. None of those parties are going to make the problems facing blacks in this country a front and center issue. Republicans have made no serious effort to reach out to black voters or minorities in general.

Post: #155

(07-27-2013 09:26 PM)scotian Wrote:  

(07-27-2013 01:02 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(07-27-2013 11:22 AM)Easy E Wrote:  ^I think Bill O'Reilly has some valid points. Sure, his delivery is a bit over the top, but his facts are dead accurate.

Also, why are blacks in so many countries prone to committing crime (Brazil, USA, Canada, UK, France, etc.)? It is comical to pretend that the high black crime rates only happen in the USA. They seem to happen anywhere there is a large black community. How long can the "legacy of slavery" be used as an excuse to gloss over the facts regarding crime?

Where are your sources for these claims? The majority of Brazilians have some measure of African ancestry (the majority), and that is another country with a shameful history of slavery and inequality.

With France, the majority of the incarcerated are Arab Muslim men mostly from Algeria, a country that has suffered brutal colonial oppression by France. The war for independence there came at a huge loss of both French and Algerian lives and there is well-documented evidence of the disproportionate prejudice and injustice Algerians face as immigrants in France.

The UK and Canada do not have higher incidents of crime from their respective black populations. That is simply untrue. Over 70% of the incarcerated in the UK are white.

Hen, I don't think this is always true, from my experience growing up very close to the largest "indigenous" black community in Canada, the blacks in Nova Scotia arrived there as freed slaves from the USA after having fought for the British in the American revolution and during the war of 1812. Although they were "free", they faced and continue to face the same issues as blacks in the USA do today. One could argue that they're even worse off as they don't have the same power as blacks do state side. I don't like to post on these touchy threads but I'd thought I'd add my 2 cents if anyone wants to know a more about the black community in my home town of Halifax and some of the similarities they have as blacks the States, here's some videos you may find interesting:

Yeah. I've heard of the black population in Nova Scotia. I saw this documentary on ESPN called "Black Ice," where it's said that those freed slaves from the US created the sport of hockey.





With the crime thing I was thinking about Canada's bigger cities. I know my boy in Vancouver was telling me about how Asian gangs there and the triad groups were responsible for a great deal of crime.

Post: #156

(07-28-2013 05:36 AM)solo Wrote:  That Black Americans and other minorities are forced into crime for historical reasons, but that it would still be beneficial to them to not use that as an excuse for their current plights, are two assertions that are both true and not mutually exclusive IMO.

Of course slavery and other wrongs from the past still has an impact today. But using that as an excuse, even though it is a very valid one, can cement and perpetuate their situation.

Just to clarify, what I meant was: using that as an excuse to stop trying to improve their situation.

Post: #157

(07-28-2013 08:09 AM)solo Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 05:36 AM)solo Wrote:  That Black Americans and other minorities are forced into crime for historical reasons, but that it would still be beneficial to them to not use that as an excuse for their current plights, are two assertions that are both true and not mutually exclusive IMO.

Of course slavery and other wrongs from the past still has an impact today. But using that as an excuse, even though it is a very valid one, can cement and perpetuate their situation.

Just to clarify, what I meant was: using that as an excuse to stop trying to improve their situation.

Yeah I hear you. Slavery was just one factor, but also the Jim Crow era and prejudice/discrimination for most of the 20th Century.

Many wealthy white people are that way due to generational wealth (inheritance, investments, home equity) from back in the day. Their families accumulated assets at a time when policies prevented blacks from doing so. Hell, my last boss when I lived in San Francisco came from a family that owned slaves. He's the guy who put me onto Tim Wise!

This book called "The Hidden Cost of Being African-American" sheds a lot of light on that inequality. It's not about individual responsibility but specific policies that prevented blacks from climbing out of poverty in the first place, the effects of which still go into the present day.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0195181387

Post: #158

Speaking of money!

http://dissention.wordpress.com/2010/10/...oor-whites

Post: #159

This ties in with Planned Parenthood, should have attached earlier!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in...ted_States

http://mystudies1.wordpress.com/global-2...on-program

http://soulsofblackwomen.blogspot.ca/201...ed-in.html

http://madamenoire.com/285399/female-pri...ia-prisons

Post: #160

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

The intended effect of the FBI's COINTELPRO was to "expose, disrupt, misdirect, or otherwise neutralize" groups that the FBI believed were "subversive"[29] by instructing FBI field operatives to:
1.create a negative public image for target groups (e.g. by surveiling activists, and then releasing negative personal information to the public)
2.break down internal organization
3.create dissension between groups
4.restrict access to public resources
5.restrict the ability to organize protests
6.restrict the ability of individuals to participate in group activities

Good ole J Edgar Hoover and the FBI

Post: #161

http://boingboing.net/2008/10/24/black-m...ed-to.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Byrd_Jr

As we see, History repeats itself!

Post: #162

Four posts in a row, Rudebwoy? Seriously?

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #163

Keep in mind that guys like Tim Wise, and Thomas Shapiro (author of "The Hidden Cost of Being African-American"), are Jewish. That's a group of people that know a thing or two about money and discrimination

In fact, the NAACP was founded by Jews.

Post: #164

(07-28-2013 10:35 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Four posts in a row, Rudebwoy? Seriously?

Why not read them you might learn something.

Post: #165

(07-28-2013 10:39 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 10:35 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Four posts in a row, Rudebwoy? Seriously?

Why not read them you might learn something.

Actually I clicked on the first and the premise of bringing up a bill from 1944 (that was meant to benefit both blacks and whites) and how it affected the lifestyle of white families in that era was so ridiculous (what was your point?) that I didn't bother with the others. Not to mention how biased and inflammatory the tone of the site is - mocking whites as if whites think welfare is only for blacks. There are plenty of whites on welfare. Hell, I was raised on it.

On top of that, you barely give people a chance to take a breath and absorb what you're saying to converse with you when you jump on so many issues at once. If you want people to take you and your links a bit more seriously, maybe tone the trollish behavior down a little bit.

I'm all for learning something when it's presented in the right manner. I don't have discussions with people who don't know how to have a levelheaded discussion and act like they're on this board to "teach" the rest of us something.

Surely you don't imagine yourself to be the only thinking man on this forum...

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #166

Post: #167

Again, not to be an ass or a troll but what are the S-O-L-U-T-I-O-N-S. The history lectures are nice but history cannot be changed...moving forward can. We cannot use the "past" anymore to answer why.

Post: #168

(07-28-2013 11:13 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  Again, not to be an ass or a troll but what are the S-O-L-U-T-I-O-N-S. The history lectures are nice but history cannot be changed...moving forward can. We cannot use the "past" anymore to answer why.

I know what the solution is but I do not feel the need to discuss it here on an open forum.

However, Bill O'Reillly is someone I don't take seriously and his views mean nothing to me. I listen to Lil Wayne but I also listen to Led Zeppelin, doesn't mean I drink "sizzle" or worship satan.

As for the history lectures, you will find alot of the laws and same mindset is still in exsistence today. Some people are too quick to distance themselves from the past and always claiming things are much better today.

Post: #169

These race threads are so dumb. Nothing good ever comes from them. The only real truth is that the problems in the black community are going to have to be solved by blacks themselves because Republicans have no interest in really solving them and Democrats pay only lip service to solving the problems in the black community. Politically, there probably won't be any changes made in the wake of the Trayvon Martin shooting since Republican controlled states are never going to repeal their "stand your ground" laws. Even in Democratically controlled states, there probably will be no changes made. In New York City, for example, the Democrat now in the lead (Christine Quinn) supports their "stop and frisk" policies.

Therefore, an old proverb comes to mind: Physican, heal thyself.

Post: #170

(07-28-2013 11:22 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  However, Bill O'Reillly is someone I don't take seriously and his views mean nothing to me.

This is why you fail.

Post: #171

Well....

Seems like we need some "mindset changes" then. See, I DO distance myself from the past because it is like a theorem in math...it cannot be changed and I have to make a way given that current restriction. After so many years, that is enough sample data to validate a change of mindset. I do agree that in many ways, it is NOT better than it used to be, but rehashing the history is not going to affect the bottom line.

Post: #172

(07-28-2013 11:13 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  Again, not to be an ass or a troll but what are the S-O-L-U-T-I-O-N-S. The history lectures are nice but history cannot be changed...moving forward can. We cannot use the "past" anymore to answer why.

Well, as the old saying goes, you don't know where you're going until you know where you've been. As this thread has lucidly revealed, many Americans - black and white - are ignorant of the history in this country. However, it's not totally their fault. I only have a problem when guys (like Samseau) exhibit strong emotions while failing to demonstrate cogent arguments that are predicated on fact.

But to the other guys on this thread - regardless of race - it's not like our country goes out of its way to give us a deep understanding of the institution of slavery and where exactly those slaves came from and how their culture and history was stripped away from them and how those problems relate to the present.

Even Russian President Vladimir Putin has touched on the legacy of slavery in his last interview on RT.


It wasn't until college that I began to get a better grasp of the history of the United States from the pov of the marginalized.

That said, this is the debate. What the role of government, if any, is to address the circumstances of African-Americans who have been disadvantaged - perhaps irrevocably - by this country's legacy.

Because we seldom talk about race in this country in an open and honest way, getting the history part down is necessary before even beginning to talk about solutions.

For the most part, this has been a good thread IMO. I'm sure more than a few readers have taken something out of it that they didn't know about before.

Post: #173

Quote:That said, this is the debate. What the role of government, if any, is to address the circumstances of many of African-Americans who have been disadvantaged by this country's legacy

Answer: Not much, then again I am from the mindset that one can choose certain paths regardless who is the President and/or which political party has control of the government. I probably mentioned this back when the election debates were hot and heavy. I am also of the mindset of "nobody owes you anything". Since I am big sports fan, I like to make sports analogies.

Analogy #1: The government is not going to give some "handout to make up for our bad head start". Even IF (by some magical means) the government does give something, it will be a "1st down with the ball at the opponent's 2-yard line" but "1st down at your own 20-yard line and you will have to go the remaining 80 yards."

Analogy #2: Relates to Track & Field and the 100-meter dash. If you have a bad start, that means you have to be better than everyone else in the remaining 80 or 90 yards than the rest. You cannot just "do what they do" and expect to close the gap. You must be better and have less mistakes. Yes, this may lead to not as much social freedom or overall "fun" but that is the card that was dealt to you. Make it work.

There is NOTHING the government can do to decrease our out-of-wedlock births, our consumer spending priorities, our education priorities (government can help with funding but prioritizing education is on us) and our lack of nuclear families. All of that must come from within. On top of that, the points that I mentioned can/should be done regardless who is the President/controlling political party.

Post: #174

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_...nstitution

The Citizenship Clause provides a broad definition of citizenship, overruling the Supreme Court's decision in Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857), which had held that Americans descended from African slaves could not be citizens of the United States. The Privileges or Immunities Clause has been interpreted in such a way that it does very little.

This is some "old" law from 1868 but people still refer to it today, it also states that Blacks in America are not citizens.
Now do you still want to say WE should forget about the past and our History?

Hencridble - I was posting the the information which I am sure MOST people on this forum knew nothing about. Discussing this topic is like talking about whether a girl is a 8 or not, pointless.

Post: #175

(07-28-2013 11:29 AM)NY Digital Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 11:22 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  However, Bill O'Reillly is someone I don't take seriously and his views mean nothing to me.

This is why you fail.

Listen Son, you don't know me so let's keep it that way!