Post: #1

I'm about a year off my undergrad (business/sport, which I'm kind of regretting) but I've heard it's easier to get into Asia/Europe teaching English with a degree so I plan on finishing it.

I've been born and raised my whole life in North America, never travelling off the continent. It's important for me to learn another language other than English because I feel uncultured. Friends at school growing up were all different races than I, so I felt compelled to fit in and had a non traditional childhood so no real Scottish/Canadian pride or anything like that.

I am leaning towards Korea because I have heard Japan is very expensive. I have considered teaching in China as well but the language is going to be harder to learn. Spent some years learning Japanese but have retained very little. Some friends of friends have lived in Korea and taught English there for many years and mentioned that white guys who aren't in the military slay there. It's also good money if you get certifications. I have heard very little about the other SE Asian countries (Thailand, Philippines)

Anyone have any stories of teaching English in Asia or learning a new language in your mid 20's? Are there European equivalents? I'm a little more than a year away so I've got time.

Post: #2

Not done it, but from my own research / talking to friends that have:

-Korean is by far the hardest main asian language for a westerner to learn. Chinese is definitely easier, especially getting conversational. Don't be put off by the tones.

-Korea is good for saving money but they work you very hard and I've heard from a few people that they weren't treated particularly well. Taiwan, Vietnam come close in terms of ability to save cash, and you supposedly get treated and also be able to work fewer hours, leaving more free time for adventure.

-China is another option, teaching in a 2nd or 3rd tier city should allow you to save $$.

-Don't rule out Japan. Expensive yes but pay is high. You could save $$ outside Tokyo. If you've learned some Japanese already, it will come back quickly and you'll have a foothold in the language/culture.

-Thailand is one of the lowest paying ones.

-Philippines don't need western english teachers, they do it all in-house. They actually export their own english teachers to Thailand and other countries.

Post: #3

Chinese, japanese, and korea are all going to be more or less equally hard, one will not be significantly harder than the others (korean grammar is a nightmare, but it has an alphabet, chinese has tones and no alphabet, but compararively simple grammar, japanese has characters, no tones, and very similar grammar to korean).
the big question is how much shit do you want with? korea and japan are first world countries, you can end up in a shithole in china fighting dysentary every other week, but the lower standard of living will give you more purchasing power

Post: #4

Here are some broad generalizations I'm aware of within the three East Asian countries- folks who are a real authority on it, do contribute a more informed opinion for us!

Job: The easiest of the three to find a job in is China, the hardest is Japan. The best leverage for finding a job in Korea or Japan is being in-country for an interview. It's gradually becoming more difficult to find a job in Korea from abroad, but for sure it's still possible, while being in-country for Japan is almost a rule at this point. The red tape that one has to go through for Japan, is a little less for Korea and a lot less for China. Understand that none of these circumstances are by accident.

Language: Far as learning one of the languages goes- I took Japanese in high school and quit after being put off by the Kanji (Chinese characters in Japanese.) My Korean is far from fluent, but I can carry, at my best, a five minute conversation with a local without using English. I learned the alphabet in three months, but truthfully that time frame is drag-ass laziness- someone who applies himself can learn it confidently in three weeks (though be skeptical of learning it in three days as some folks claim.)

Since we all know how difficult these languages can be, thought I'd point out what I think is easiest about them. Chinese has the easiest grammar, Korean the easiest alphabet (and is therefore the easiest to read) and Japanese is the easiest to pronounce correctly and listen to.

Bangs: Chinese for the sheer numbers, Koreans for the beauty, Japan for the beauty and the absence of social restrictions found in Korea (see why it's the hardest to land a job there?) I'm not white, so I can't speak on direct experience, but I can say that white guys... that are tall, have fashion sense (far more important here than most realize) and a modicum of game... do in fact, slay. If you're missing these things however, it won't be a cakewalk- foreigners are far more common here than they were just two years ago. We're not special anymore, haha.

Now if you were to prioritize language, job/money and women in order, as in, what's easiest to get? Here are the permutations and where I might tell you to go, depending on what you place first to last...

Women, job, language- China (again, suffice to say numbers are in your favor. A buddy of mine was literally grouped when out at the clubs over there.)

Women, language, job- Japan
Language, women, job- Japan
(again, this is because Japan is the hardest to find a job. If you're willing to put in the time and money, I venture to say that the language and women should fall into place easier than the other two countries if you stay long enough.)

Language, job, women- Korea (my biased opinion of course, but mind you Koreans are super nationalistic, and status conscious, meaning they will jump at the chance to teach you their language, and to learn some of yours, as speaking English is a symbol of status- i.e. being able to afford a private English education.)

Job, women, language- China (Salaries in china are the lowest, but the salary range is the largest, and the school doesn’t own your visa- you can do private tutoring as you please for extra cash.)

Job, language, women- Korea (you can save money fairly easily and still enjoy yourself, though your school owns your visa and private tutoring is illegal- not that it stops most who are teaching here.)

Again, this is all my humble, misinformed opinion, as I've only lived in one of these countries, and forgive the lack of brevity. Even while over here I feel like I'm in the same boat sometimes. Hope this helps.

Post: #5

I second the mention from one of the posters above on Taiwan. From my research, it's very possible to save money there teaching English as the salary to living costs are pretty good. The women are hot and willing but not overeager to date foreigners. Infrastructure solid. Food good. A 2-year degree is enough to teach - no need for Bachelors - and plenty of available work. Beautiful places to visit during off-time.

Taiwan interests me a lot as a living destination too. I've suspected it's a highly-underestimated Asian country for a while now and everyone I've corresponded with that's been there confirms that suspicion.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #6

Read in depth at http://www.eslcafe.com

China, Japan and Korea all have their own pluses and minuses.

But as an experienced language learner, dont avoid a country because tou hear that a language is "too hard". Chinese, Korean and Japanese are all very dostinct languages with their own challenges. You will need dedication and hard work to learn any of them, but none are impossible, and there are many westerners in all of those countries who learn the language.

Chinese of course seems to have the most economic value as a language to learn.

Post: #7

Teachers get paid shit in Thailand which is why I would never recommend anyone coming here to teach unless you're doing so because you love teaching. I'd go the Japanese route, definitely.

Post: #8

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I have also heard that if you are okay with living in rural Japan then you can save quite a bit of money, surprisingly.

Korea, Taiwan, and Vietnam should not be overlooked.

Do you have student loan debt you need to pay off?

How do you plan to use your time outside of teaching?

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Post: #9

How does an advanced degree (Law/MBA) fit into the spectrum of teaching at an advanced level and/or earning more from the get go or after 1 year?

Post: #10

I'd say 2nd Tier China for money. The salaries in Korea may be high, but you are going to be at the school 40 hours a week, with a week or so holiday a year. If you get yourself a university job you'll be on around 5000rmb (with no experience) per month, working between 10 and 15 hours a week. Part time work comes in at 150 rmb - 400 rmb per hour, depending on how well you've networked. You can then stack up hours accordingly. Also with the uni work, in a 10 month contract you will have around 2 months holiday

I just spent the past 10 months teaching in a second tier city whilst I checked out business opportunities. No regrets about it at all.

If I was to spend a year or two in Asia, there is no way I would pick Korea. Its probably the most bland country I have been to.

Post: #11

(07-19-2013 10:02 AM)chinadawg Wrote:  I'd say 2nd Tier China for money. The salaries in Korea may be high, but you are going to be at the school 40 hours a week, with a week or so holiday a year. If you get yourself a university job you'll be on around 5000rmb (with no experience) per month, working between 10 and 15 hours a week. Part time work comes in at 150 rmb - 400 rmb per hour, depending on how well you've networked. You can then stack up hours accordingly. Also with the uni work, in a 10 month contract you will have around 2 months holiday

I just spent the past 10 months teaching in a second tier city whilst I checked out business opportunities. No regrets about it at all.

If I was to spend a year or two in Asia, there is no way I would pick Korea. Its probably the most bland country I have been to.

Nice! Could you talk abit more about uni jobs in 2nd-tier china?

5000rmb equates to about $750, is that right? Presumably you get accommodation included in that?

Also, are they harder to get than jobs in schools? You mentioned that you could start with no experience, so I guess they're pretty available to new teachers.

Post: #12

I live in Taiwan after seven months teaching in Korea. check my past posts. i think its the best all arounder in asia

Post: #13

My friend has been doing this in Shenzhen China for over a year now. Seems to be doing pretty well. I went out there an visited him for a few months last year an had a blast... mainly just cause of the night life at Coco Park and Sea World (thats what they called it) There was hot girls from all over the world at those places every night of the week.... great place to go an get multiple flags

Post: #14

(07-17-2013 02:19 AM)RustyShackleford Wrote:  I'm about a year off my undergrad (business/sport, which I'm kind of regretting) but I've heard it's easier to get into Asia/Europe teaching English with a degree so I plan on finishing it.

Going to school for another year so you can be an English teacher in Asia is a waste of time. You're better off using that time and money to start your own business instead. In the long run you'll be able to travel way more, and won't have to be an...English teacher

Post: #15

(07-17-2013 12:25 PM)glarkcable Wrote:  Job, women, language- China (Salaries in china are the lowest, but the salary range is the largest, and the school doesn’t own your visa- you can do private tutoring as you please for extra cash.)

Incorrect. Work visa are registered by way of specific employers in China as well and can refuse to allow you to moonlight. However, it is not uncommon for teachers to take a side job, whether permitted or not.

I think that it may be technically illegal to moonlight, but this is rarely enforced, unless the employer wants to be a bitch about it.

I personally have spent years in China, worked for most of it and NEVER had a work visa. I had tourist visas, student visas, business visas and worked under the table.

If you can handle the added stress that comes with the calculated risks in doing this, you could make twice to three times the money running your own tutoring service. However, you'll probably have to teach little kids a bunch, especially initially, as children 5-9 tend to be the easiest clients to come by, as there parents wanna give them every edge possible and no one wants to teach them.

Quote:Job, language, women- Korea (you can save money fairly easily and still enjoy yourself, though your school owns your visa and private tutoring is illegal- not that it stops most who are teaching here.)

Again, this is all my humble, misinformed opinion, as I've only lived in one of these countries, and forgive the lack of brevity. Even while over here I feel like I'm in the same boat sometimes. Hope this helps.

Otherwise, very informative.

Post: #16

I don't agree with the claim that China pays the least. I think you'll actually save a lot more here than any place outside of the Middle East. I just signed a contract with an int'l school for twice as much as I was making in Korea with about ten less teaching hours per week. I also get 3000 RMB for housing plus 3 meals a day in the school cafeteria (Korean pay rates are pretty standard across the board so that should give you an idea of the potential here). This is in a first tier city. When I decided to come here I had no idea it could be this lucrative. I should be able to put away at least 3000 USD a month and have time to work on getting my business project off the ground (the main reason I'm here).

I've been in China for a couple weeks now and have been getting several calls a day from recruiters looking to fill positions. Like some of the other posters mentioned above, part-time work in an academy pays in the range 150-300 RMB per hour. If you want the upper end of that wage range, then learn how to teach the SAT. You'll bank. Thank me later.

I've also taught in Thailand. Don't bother unless you want to look at it as just an extended holiday or you have a nice side income. To start you'll only be making $1000-1700 per month (30k-50k baht) and you'll have to pay for housing. Even though it seems low, it's still more than 3-4 times what a newbie Thai teacher earns (at my school the fresh graduates were making 8K baht/month). I just went to have some fun and didn't really worry too much about money. I hit the eject button at about month six because I could see it wasn't going to help me become the man I want to be. Granted Thailand is cheap, but at your age you should focus on stacking some cash first. Southeast Asia is still going to be there in a few years.

Korean girls are hot, the food is good, and the pay/benefits are decent. It's also an easy place to get your foot in the door of the teaching world because demand for English language education is so high. The big downside is that it's a pretty xenophobic place and people drink unhealthy amounts of alcohol. Because of that, it's not a place to stay for longer than a year or two. It will wear you down.

I wouldn't go to Japan to start out. The cost of living is too high. When I was there the cheapest thing to eat in restaurants was ramen at around $6 a bowl. That won't fill you up. If you like to eat out you'll spend all your disposable income on food and drinks. Eating out is cheap in every other Asian country. Intercity transportation is also ridiculously overpriced. J-Girls are hot and willing, however.

I've heard good things about working in Vietnam also. I've seen salaries at around $2000 per month or $15 to $20/hour, which should be sufficient to live well, stack a little cash and allow you to work on transitioning out of teaching or network into an international school job. The pay is also okay in Cambodia ($12-20/hour) but that country is dirt poor and the food sucks ass.

I have a friend who just took a job in Taiwan. I'll have to get the scoop from him about that place. I've heard good things about the culture and atmosphere but I've seen that posted salaries are much lower than Mainland China.

If you show up in China you should have a wide variety of jobs to choose from. If you go legal and get a work visa, you'll probably net around 10-15k RMB/month in a larger city. This may or may not include housing. If you know how to write a good resume, you'll probably make more than that. Side gigs will bring in even more money. You can teach, save some money, learn Mandarin, get continuously hit on by girls, work on side projects, and maybe transition into business or other opportunities.

Post: #17

(07-21-2013 11:29 PM)travolta Wrote:  Going to school for another year so you can be an English teacher in Asia is a waste of time. You're better off using that time and money to start your own business instead. In the long run you'll be able to travel way more, and won't have to be an...English teacher

I've got student debt and no idea how to start my own business. I am not sure I have skills that could translate. The only thing I have really done is party, hit on girls, and play sports up to this point. I am a very skilled coach in sport, and the degree could help me with good part-time work I am interested in.

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You guys certainly have opened my eyes! There is a wealth of information here and you've made my decision significantly harder. I was leaning towards Korea initially because of the first hand knowledge from my older friends (late 30's) who stayed 6-10 years from 97-07. I've been told that white guys who aren't in the military slay in Korea. I've got pretty good looks (did a bit of modelling when I was younger) and slim, tall build.

I've got some time as I am finishing my degree and I'll be finding more information and posting it. Thanks again everyone, I look forward to visiting you in Asia