Post: #151

http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/explorer?ref=us

Notice the patterns. See how, even at the broadest categories of "White", "Black", "Hispanic", "Asian" and "Other", you can look at that map and make predictions about the culture and people you will see, such as the difference between Union City and Hoboken in New Jersey.

If you care enough to dig deeper into racial details, you would find that 58% of Union City is "White Hispanic". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_City,...mographics

Post: #152

(07-31-2013 09:32 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  Either way, the trend of the crumbling white male power structure in this country is only going to accelerate in the coming years. You can either get on the bus, stay where you are, or get run over.

The fact that the white power structure in this country is crumbling isn't necessarily a good thing for blacks. It will probably be a good thing for growing immigrant groups like Hispanics and Asians, but I am not sure it will be good for native-born blacks.

Case and point:

Hispanic win: ‘California can be Republican again'

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013...medium=RSS

The story I linked above is about a California republican state senator who just won in a historically Hispanic democrat district by appealing to Hispanic voters on jobs, affordable energy, and opposition to big government...and by also taking a softer stance on illegal immigration. Now this might be good for Hispanics since this means that more people will seek out their votes, but I fail to see how this is going to be good for blacks in the state. Most of the working class jobs that are created in Cali go to Hispanics, and legal and illegal immigration doesn't help the situation. Republicans also have plans to reach out to Asians and appeal to them as well.

Conversely, the Democrats are breaking their backs trying to pass immigration reform, which certainly doesn't help blacks but does benefit Hispanics and Asians. Democrats are even trying to make outreach efforts to Hispanics in Texas since winning that state means Republicans won't be able to win the presidency anymore. Of course, I don't see how reaching out to Hispanic voters exactly helps blacks, but maybe you can enlighten me.

I guess my point is that don't assume that the crumbling white power structure in this country will necessarily be a good thing for blacks, because I don't seen any evidence that it will.

Post: #153

Post: #154

Why do you need to prove to anyone you're not racist? If you know you're not and they think you are, fuck 'em. You don't need to prove yourself to anyone.

Post: #155

(07-31-2013 09:32 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  That's precisely the reason why guys like Tim Wise have credibility with many blacks. It's because what he says aligns precisely with the experiences many of us have. You can tell just based on what he says that he's spent considerable time around blacks and studying their predicament as a racial group in this country.

I've been reluctant to pay much attention to Tim Wise, and here is why:

What little I've been able to read doesn't hold up well under scrutiny. His experiences don't really match mine, seem to involve a lot of subjectivity and speculation, and lacks intellectual rigor.

Maybe it's more rigorous than it looks from the outside, and I'd be willing to investigate more except that he seems to be heavily marketing guilt and resentment. In general I've noticed that people who dwell on blame, especially racial blame, tend to be bad at identifying concrete problems and providing viable solutions. So I've not bothered with Tim Wise.

Quote:You can also similarly tell when a white person is more concerned about what they see as an erosion of their own opportunities, status and privilege in this country than they are about the plight of black people. When a white person challenges the points made by guys like Tim Wise by spewing diatribes full of character attacks/ad hominems while absent of cogent facts, arguing against irrevocable truths, and does not admit to any ignorance whatsoever, I think it's clear which side of the fence they're on.

There are sides because spreading around terms like "White Privilege" and spreading blame instead of making a serious effort to identify and appeal to shared principles, aggravates tribalist instincts instead of suppressing them. It's "divisive" to use the term from Obama campaigns.

Post: #156

(07-31-2013 03:57 PM)Easy E Wrote:  

(07-31-2013 09:32 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  Either way, the trend of the crumbling white male power structure in this country is only going to accelerate in the coming years. You can either get on the bus, stay where you are, or get run over.

The fact that the white power structure in this country is crumbling isn't necessarily a good thing for blacks. It will probably be a good thing for growing immigrant groups like Hispanics and Asians, but I am not sure it will be good for native-born blacks.

Case and point:

Hispanic win: ‘California can be Republican again'

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013...medium=RSS

The story I linked above is about a California republican state senator who just won in a historically Hispanic democrat district by appealing to Hispanic voters on jobs, affordable energy, and opposition to big government...and by also taking a softer stance on illegal immigration. Now this might be good for Hispanics since this means that more people will seek out their votes, but I fail to see how this is going to be good for blacks in the state. Most of the working class jobs that are created in Cali go to Hispanics, and legal and illegal immigration doesn't help the situation. Republicans also have plans to reach out to Asians and appeal to them as well.

Conversely, the Democrats are breaking their backs trying to pass immigration reform, which certainly doesn't help blacks but does benefit Hispanics and Asians. Democrats are even trying to make outreach efforts to Hispanics in Texas since winning that state means Republicans won't be able to win the presidency anymore. Of course, I don't see how reaching out to Hispanic voters exactly helps blacks, but maybe you can enlighten me.

I guess my point is that don't assume that the crumbling white power structure in this country will necessarily be a good thing for blacks, because I don't seen any evidence that it will.

Latinos and Asians are each a larger demographic than blacks in the state of California. Latinos are also now a larger minority group in the US than blacks and their political clout will only increase with time.

Barack Obama wouldn't be President today without the latino voting block, whereas he lost the white male vote. I think that runs counter to the point you're trying to make.

Post: #157

(07-31-2013 06:04 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(07-31-2013 03:57 PM)Easy E Wrote:  

(07-31-2013 09:32 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  Either way, the trend of the crumbling white male power structure in this country is only going to accelerate in the coming years. You can either get on the bus, stay where you are, or get run over.

The fact that the white power structure in this country is crumbling isn't necessarily a good thing for blacks. It will probably be a good thing for growing immigrant groups like Hispanics and Asians, but I am not sure it will be good for native-born blacks.

Case and point:

Hispanic win: ‘California can be Republican again'

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013...medium=RSS

The story I linked above is about a California republican state senator who just won in a historically Hispanic democrat district by appealing to Hispanic voters on jobs, affordable energy, and opposition to big government...and by also taking a softer stance on illegal immigration. Now this might be good for Hispanics since this means that more people will seek out their votes, but I fail to see how this is going to be good for blacks in the state. Most of the working class jobs that are created in Cali go to Hispanics, and legal and illegal immigration doesn't help the situation. Republicans also have plans to reach out to Asians and appeal to them as well.

Conversely, the Democrats are breaking their backs trying to pass immigration reform, which certainly doesn't help blacks but does benefit Hispanics and Asians. Democrats are even trying to make outreach efforts to Hispanics in Texas since winning that state means Republicans won't be able to win the presidency anymore. Of course, I don't see how reaching out to Hispanic voters exactly helps blacks, but maybe you can enlighten me.

I guess my point is that don't assume that the crumbling white power structure in this country will necessarily be a good thing for blacks, because I don't seen any evidence that it will.

Latinos and Asians are each a larger demographic than blacks in the state of California. Latinos are also now a larger minority group in the US than blacks and their political clout will only increase with time.

Barack Obama wouldn't be President today without the latino voting block, whereas he lost the white male vote. I think that runs counter to the point you're trying to make.

It doesn't run counter to my point which is that immigration doesn't benefit native-born blacks, and we are going to get more of it as Hispanic and Asian political power grows.

Post: #158

(07-31-2013 06:11 PM)Easy E Wrote:  

(07-31-2013 06:04 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(07-31-2013 03:57 PM)Easy E Wrote:  

(07-31-2013 09:32 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  Either way, the trend of the crumbling white male power structure in this country is only going to accelerate in the coming years. You can either get on the bus, stay where you are, or get run over.

The fact that the white power structure in this country is crumbling isn't necessarily a good thing for blacks. It will probably be a good thing for growing immigrant groups like Hispanics and Asians, but I am not sure it will be good for native-born blacks.

Case and point:

Hispanic win: ‘California can be Republican again'

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013...medium=RSS

The story I linked above is about a California republican state senator who just won in a historically Hispanic democrat district by appealing to Hispanic voters on jobs, affordable energy, and opposition to big government...and by also taking a softer stance on illegal immigration. Now this might be good for Hispanics since this means that more people will seek out their votes, but I fail to see how this is going to be good for blacks in the state. Most of the working class jobs that are created in Cali go to Hispanics, and legal and illegal immigration doesn't help the situation. Republicans also have plans to reach out to Asians and appeal to them as well.

Conversely, the Democrats are breaking their backs trying to pass immigration reform, which certainly doesn't help blacks but does benefit Hispanics and Asians. Democrats are even trying to make outreach efforts to Hispanics in Texas since winning that state means Republicans won't be able to win the presidency anymore. Of course, I don't see how reaching out to Hispanic voters exactly helps blacks, but maybe you can enlighten me.

I guess my point is that don't assume that the crumbling white power structure in this country will necessarily be a good thing for blacks, because I don't seen any evidence that it will.

Latinos and Asians are each a larger demographic than blacks in the state of California. Latinos are also now a larger minority group in the US than blacks and their political clout will only increase with time.

Barack Obama wouldn't be President today without the latino voting block, whereas he lost the white male vote. I think that runs counter to the point you're trying to make.

It doesn't run counter to my point which is that immigration doesn't benefit native-born blacks, and we are going to get more of it as Hispanic and Asian political power grows.

Ah. Well, it's the white male power structure that invited immigration to begin with. Reagan opened the floodgates to non-European immigrants during the 1980s, so it's not like what benefits native-born blacks was ever on anyone's mind. I think that's a weak argument.

At any rate, everyone is going to have to compete even more to get ahead in this world. That's for sure.

Post: #159

A little background on the term Gringo.

Its funny, i am from Argentina, but i do not consider myself "Latino" or "Hispanic". Three of my grandparents come from East Europe (Ukraine) and one from Spain (Galicia), and even sometimes people confuse me for an european tourist, but, if i understand correctly, if i am living in the USA, the US Gov would consider me "Hispanic"?

Post: #160

Post: #161

(07-31-2013 04:39 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  Why do you need to prove to anyone you're not racist? If you know you're not and they think you are, fuck 'em. You don't need to prove yourself to anyone.

Agreed. Do you have to go around proving to feminists that you aren't a "chauvinist" ?

Post: #162

(07-31-2013 07:01 PM)Mekorig Wrote:  A little background on the term Gringo.

Its funny, i am from Argentina, but i do not consider myself "Latino" or "Hispanic".

I'm curious, do the words "Latino" or "Hispanic" mean anything at all to you in the first place? It seems they're peculiar to the US due to the high rates of immigration from Mexico, Central and South America, and the Caribbean.

Quote:Three of my grandparents come from East Europe (Ukraine) and one from Spain (Galicia), and even sometimes people confuse me for an european tourist, but, if i understand correctly, if i am living in the USA, the US Gov would consider me "Hispanic"?

Maybe. It depends on whether you check the right box on the census form. If you were to move to the US, live here for awhile and still not consider yourself Hispanic, you just wouldn't check that box. You might still be counted by country of origin in some estimates. That's hard to say.

For average people in the US-- is Spanish your preferred and primary language? Do you consider yourself culturally Argentinian? Do you tend to associate with other Spanish-speaking people from Latin America? If you answered yes to those questions, odds are high you would be considered "White Hispanic". On the other hand if you spoke with a very mild European accent (or no accent) and comport yourself like a typical white person from North America or Europe, people are much less likely to classify you as Hispanic.

Note that the language thing is not a 100% predictor either, people still might take you for Hispanic if you spoke Portuguese or Italian. (Less likely for Italian because the US has such a large Italian immigrant population)

Post: #163

(07-31-2013 06:16 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(07-31-2013 06:11 PM)Easy E Wrote:  

(07-31-2013 06:04 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(07-31-2013 03:57 PM)Easy E Wrote:  

(07-31-2013 09:32 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  Either way, the trend of the crumbling white male power structure in this country is only going to accelerate in the coming years. You can either get on the bus, stay where you are, or get run over.

The fact that the white power structure in this country is crumbling isn't necessarily a good thing for blacks. It will probably be a good thing for growing immigrant groups like Hispanics and Asians, but I am not sure it will be good for native-born blacks.

Case and point:

Hispanic win: ‘California can be Republican again'

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013...medium=RSS

The story I linked above is about a California republican state senator who just won in a historically Hispanic democrat district by appealing to Hispanic voters on jobs, affordable energy, and opposition to big government...and by also taking a softer stance on illegal immigration. Now this might be good for Hispanics since this means that more people will seek out their votes, but I fail to see how this is going to be good for blacks in the state. Most of the working class jobs that are created in Cali go to Hispanics, and legal and illegal immigration doesn't help the situation. Republicans also have plans to reach out to Asians and appeal to them as well.

Conversely, the Democrats are breaking their backs trying to pass immigration reform, which certainly doesn't help blacks but does benefit Hispanics and Asians. Democrats are even trying to make outreach efforts to Hispanics in Texas since winning that state means Republicans won't be able to win the presidency anymore. Of course, I don't see how reaching out to Hispanic voters exactly helps blacks, but maybe you can enlighten me.

I guess my point is that don't assume that the crumbling white power structure in this country will necessarily be a good thing for blacks, because I don't seen any evidence that it will.

Latinos and Asians are each a larger demographic than blacks in the state of California. Latinos are also now a larger minority group in the US than blacks and their political clout will only increase with time.

Barack Obama wouldn't be President today without the latino voting block, whereas he lost the white male vote. I think that runs counter to the point you're trying to make.

It doesn't run counter to my point which is that immigration doesn't benefit native-born blacks, and we are going to get more of it as Hispanic and Asian political power grows.

Ah. Well, it's the white male power structure that invited immigration to begin with. Reagan opened the floodgates to non-European immigrants during the 1980s, so it's not like what benefits native-born blacks was ever on anyone's mind. I think that's a weak argument.

At any rate, everyone is going to have to compete even more to get ahead in this world. That's for sure.

Actually, it started with the liberals who released the floodgates for Hispanic immigration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigratio...ct_of_1965

I agree that Republicans have done nothing about this issue either. But to blame one over the other, I'd say it mostly goes to the Democrats who have really gained from Hispanic immigration.

Post: #164

(07-31-2013 08:48 PM)Blaster Wrote:  I'm curious, do the words "Latino" or "Hispanic" mean anything at all to you in the first place? It seems they're peculiar to the US due to the high rates of immigration from Mexico, Central and South America, and the Caribbean.

For me, it means nothing per se. I know that political groups use it for their own goals of a "South and Central American brotherhood", but culturally, the only countries i can relate are Uruguay, and in the lesser way, Chile and Brazil.

(07-31-2013 08:48 PM)Blaster Wrote:  Maybe. It depends on whether you check the right box on the census form. If you were to move to the US, live here for awhile and still not consider yourself Hispanic, you just wouldn't check that box. You might still be counted by country of origin in some estimates. That's hard to say.

For average people in the US-- is Spanish your preferred and primary language? Do you consider yourself culturally Argentinian? Do you tend to associate with other Spanish-speaking people from Latin America? If you answered yes to those questions, odds are high you would be considered "White Hispanic". On the other hand if you spoke with a very mild European accent (or no accent) and comport yourself like a typical white person from North America or Europe, people are much less likely to classify you as Hispanic.

Note that the language thing is not a 100% predictor either, people still might take you for Hispanic if you spoke Portuguese or Italian. (Less likely for Italian because the US has such a large Italian immigrant population)

Yeah, i consider myself culturally argentinian, if you understand the argentinian culture as a new culture born of a mix of other diferent european cultures.

I speak spanish, it is my mother lenguage, but i do not have problem of expressing myself in other lenguages (i am trying to learn german and portuguese right now). As per asociating with people of other "Latin" countries, i have some contact, but no preference over other nationalities (its the same for me to game a Colombian or a Belgian girl).

Post: #165

(07-31-2013 08:54 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(07-31-2013 06:16 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(07-31-2013 06:11 PM)Easy E Wrote:  

(07-31-2013 06:04 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(07-31-2013 03:57 PM)Easy E Wrote:  The fact that the white power structure in this country is crumbling isn't necessarily a good thing for blacks. It will probably be a good thing for growing immigrant groups like Hispanics and Asians, but I am not sure it will be good for native-born blacks.

Case and point:

Hispanic win: ‘California can be Republican again'

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013...medium=RSS

The story I linked above is about a California republican state senator who just won in a historically Hispanic democrat district by appealing to Hispanic voters on jobs, affordable energy, and opposition to big government...and by also taking a softer stance on illegal immigration. Now this might be good for Hispanics since this means that more people will seek out their votes, but I fail to see how this is going to be good for blacks in the state. Most of the working class jobs that are created in Cali go to Hispanics, and legal and illegal immigration doesn't help the situation. Republicans also have plans to reach out to Asians and appeal to them as well.

Conversely, the Democrats are breaking their backs trying to pass immigration reform, which certainly doesn't help blacks but does benefit Hispanics and Asians. Democrats are even trying to make outreach efforts to Hispanics in Texas since winning that state means Republicans won't be able to win the presidency anymore. Of course, I don't see how reaching out to Hispanic voters exactly helps blacks, but maybe you can enlighten me.

I guess my point is that don't assume that the crumbling white power structure in this country will necessarily be a good thing for blacks, because I don't seen any evidence that it will.

Latinos and Asians are each a larger demographic than blacks in the state of California. Latinos are also now a larger minority group in the US than blacks and their political clout will only increase with time.

Barack Obama wouldn't be President today without the latino voting block, whereas he lost the white male vote. I think that runs counter to the point you're trying to make.

It doesn't run counter to my point which is that immigration doesn't benefit native-born blacks, and we are going to get more of it as Hispanic and Asian political power grows.

Ah. Well, it's the white male power structure that invited immigration to begin with. Reagan opened the floodgates to non-European immigrants during the 1980s, so it's not like what benefits native-born blacks was ever on anyone's mind. I think that's a weak argument.

At any rate, everyone is going to have to compete even more to get ahead in this world. That's for sure.

Actually, it started with the liberals who released the floodgates for Hispanic immigration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigratio...ct_of_1965

I agree that Republicans have done nothing about this issue either. But to blame one over the other, I'd say it mostly goes to the Democrats who have really gained from Hispanic immigration.

Immigration skyrocketed during the 1980s and Reagan is the only US President to date to have given amnesty to illegal immigrants:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...=128303672

Of course, the corporate establishment of the Republican party loves immigrants. They love the work ethic, competitiveness, docility, and the willingness to work more for less than native born Americans, whether you're talking about the guy flipping burgers or the computer scientist from India.

The elites in general -irrespective of political affiliation - love immigrants. Immigration preserves their privilege.

Post: #166

OK, to Samseau, who didn't answer my previous question about "who, in the above examples would you consider white" on page 5, I have a little test. It's all in fun, and I don't mean any offense. Anyone else is entitled to chime in, but if you know who these people are it would ruin it a little. Sam, maybe you also know, but I've not read a post of yours in the soccer thread, so I thought I'd use soccer players/coaches. Blaster, your input would also be appreciated as you have also conversed with me on this 'Latino' issue.

Below are the pictures of five, to me at least, white people. Yet, only one would really be considered white in America. I say that, because 1 person in the picture is Spanish, from Spain, and G Manifesto said that really, a Spaniard isn't truly considered white. Weird. I have posted these photos to elaborate what speakeasy said, that basically, if someone looks like they come from Europe, then they're white. I mean, I see people posting things like "I love Brazil and Argentina, the women are hot. I'm done with white women, i'm strictly after latinas now." These are the types of comments that make me, speakeasy and others raise this debate. And also why I said it was "madness" and why speakeasy said it was "weird". Most of those Argentinians ARE white, ditto with white Brazilians! They aren't 'Latinas', there's no such thing, at least not as a separate race. People should say, "I'm through with white Anglos" or something. Anyway, back to my test. Which one is white, and which aren't? The point I'm trying to make is that racially, Latino/Hispanic shouldn't be a category, and whilst the census also says this, many Americans are ignorant of this.

A)

B)

C)

D)

E)

F)

Only one of the above would be called white by many Americans. Starting to see how absurd it is?

So, which one is it?

EDIT: I've added one more, so 2 would be considered white, maybe three if you include Spaniard, which ones are they?

Post: #167

(07-31-2013 09:32 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  You can also similarly tell when a white person is more concerned about what they see as an erosion of their own opportunities, status and privilege in this country than they are about the plight of black people. When a white person challenges the points made by guys like Tim Wise by spewing diatribes full of character attacks/ad hominems while absent of cogent facts, arguing against irrevocable truths, and does not admit to any ignorance whatsoever, I think it's clear which side of the fence they're on.

Either way, the trend of the crumbling white male power structure in this country is only going to accelerate in the coming years. You can either get on the bus, stay where you are, or get run over.

This.

The Whites in power are still going to be chilling regardless of what happens demographically. Its the Whites who are in the middle to the bottom who are going to have very interesting times. Also, its clear that the unofficial deal made after the Bacon's rebellion between poor Whites and the elite is over. So, I don't blame poor, working and middle class White males for starting to feel a little salty and betrayed.

The sad truth is that the elites in this country do not give a shit about other non-wealthy Whites and that's a very hard pill to swallow for some. They can project their anger and frustration on Blacks, immigrants, Feminism, Multiculturalism, diversity but the fact is that none of those "problems" would exist without the co-sign of the Elite of this country.

I remember listening to Hot 97( Hip hop radio station in NYC)morning radio show the morning after the 9/11 attacks. The host at the time Starr(big Ayn Rand fan) had professor Cornell West on the show. He asked professor West to breakdown what was going on. Professor West said that this was basically the beginning of the "Niggerization of America," in a nut shell, that White America will begin to experience what Blacks have been going thru for decades; scared of random acts of violence, economic uncertainly, marginalization and a general feeling of hopeless that they can't do anything about it.

Shiiiiiiit, Obama was elected having lost the majority of the White vote. NYC is ground zero(no pun intended ) for this phenomenon. For example, there were quite a few career paths for White males who did not want to go to college. They could go into the union trades(plumbing, electrician, mason) or uniform services(Police, Sanitation, Correction, Fire Department) Those jobs were very well paid considering they only have a HS diploma and great benefits. Until very recently those jobs had a full bag of tricks to excluded Blacks and minorities. The elites went along with it with a wink and a nod for decades. Not anymore. The Fire Department is the last hold out(96% White and Male), but the writing is on the wall for them. They are being forced to desegregate as we speak. They are mad as hell, ranting about lower standards and shit, but nobody cares.

Now because of NYC changing demographics and the new economic landscape, White males are on the same boat as Blacks and Hispanics after HS graduation in NY. Either work for minimum wage mixing paint at Home
Depot or join the military.

Post: #168

Take this booty:

Post: #169

Take this booty:

Post: #170

Nobody took my test. Disappointed!

Post: #171

(08-10-2013 03:01 AM)soup Wrote:  Take this booty:

Post: #172

(08-10-2013 12:58 AM)playa_with_a_passport Wrote:  

(07-31-2013 09:32 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  You can also similarly tell when a white person is more concerned about what they see as an erosion of their own opportunities, status and privilege in this country than they are about the plight of black people. When a white person challenges the points made by guys like Tim Wise by spewing diatribes full of character attacks/ad hominems while absent of cogent facts, arguing against irrevocable truths, and does not admit to any ignorance whatsoever, I think it's clear which side of the fence they're on.

Either way, the trend of the crumbling white male power structure in this country is only going to accelerate in the coming years. You can either get on the bus, stay where you are, or get run over.

So, I don't blame poor, working and middle class White males for starting to feel a little salty and betrayed.

Is that beta?

Post: #173

I don't know why I let these race threads go.

Future ones will be closed immediately, and the OP suspended.