Post: #26

Women are non-confrontational and indirect. That's is just another way to say they are not interested. Same as them saying give me your phone number, I'll call. What people say doesn't matter, it's what they do that does. What I am talking about are women that actually do make an effort to be your friend.

Post: #27

I have been placed in the friendzone for being too much a nice guy. example, girl invites me over, we're there alone, I was didn't display killer instinct (or i simply went against my instinct) - being too concerned with being perceived as just another guy (when in fact she wanted me to make moves) a couple of times I literally just watched a movie and left. yeah, beta or worse right? what's the name for that?

I look back and say WTF?? I had game enough to get these girls to invite me over - one I met out at a club, had one date and the next night she invited me over. but i was too concerned with them seeing me as someone they could trust.

so yes the friendzone does exit because then the girl gets confused...why didn't he want to have sex? or even make out?

to me the friendzone doesn't mean that they are your friend to hang with and be buddies, its a perception of you that they don't want to fuck you anymore for some reason, in my case for being beta.

Post: #28

Well, if you don't make your intentions with a girl clear then how is she suppose to know what you want? Unless a girl is really into you and is comfortable with her sexuality you may actually have to do ALL the work. And this is the problem most guys, include me, have - when we have to do all the work. The girl is not sending any sexual signals or making any attempt to be sexual with you...she's just basically sitting there waiting for you to do everything. And even after you start she may just continue to allow things without participating much herself. To deal with this you had better be one horny bastard or be really into that girl.

Post: #29

(07-14-2013 01:54 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  I really don't understand what point is being made here. Am I stupid or something?
When a woman puts you in the "friendzone" it's because she is not attracted to you. What is so difficult to understand about that?

1. Not ALL women will be attracted to you and no amount of Game is going to change that.

2. Once you accept No.1 then you have two choices: either accept her as a friend if she offers it or don't interact with her - move on.

How is this a logical impossibility or illogical? If you are not attracted to a woman, would you have a problem being friends with her?

I don't accept them as friends. I will move on or continue gaming on them until they accept my cock.

I have women that I work with doing music etc. I don't consider them friends even though we are around each other all the time. I can't confide in them in the same way that I can with guys. I don't trust women at all.

I almost always have tension with women. I can't think of a girl who I don't have some kind of tension with.

I have tensions with guys too, but they are more manageable and usually get ironed out.

The times that I've had problems with managers at gigs have almost always been with a female manager.

I don't believe in befriending women to get their friends. If she's not going to fuck you, I can guarantee her friends won't either. Better to just not have her around spoiling the vibe.

You can hang around models to learn how they operate etc., but that's reconnaissance, not real friendship.

However, I will use the word "friend" to belittle a girl or introduce her or whatever.

Post: #30

(07-14-2013 05:47 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Well, if you don't make your intentions with a girl clear then how is she suppose to know what you want? Unless a girl is really into you and is comfortable with her sexuality you may actually have to do ALL the work. And this is the problem most guys, include me, have - when we have to do all the work. The girl is not sending any sexual signals or making any attempt to be sexual with you...she's just basically sitting there waiting for you to do everything. And even after you start she may just continue to allow things without participating much herself. To deal with this you had better be one horny bastard or be really into that girl.

Yeah- horniness of the highest almost intellectual level sublimated into persistence.

I have had to work 3 x harder to touch a 5's tit than I have a 9.4's.

Post: #31

I will be entering college in around a month. One of the things I will be focusing on is making friends with everyone.

So yes, in some cases, I think the friend zone does exist and it is a place I will strive to put myself when I get to college. Not by every girl of course, but the goal is to be friends with the cute girls while fucking the hot ones.

As long as I maintain a masculine vibe (i.e. being "alpha") while being friends with girls, I think it can benefit me in the long run.

Post: #32

(07-14-2013 11:16 PM)Sleek Wrote:  I will be entering college in around a month. One of the things I will be focusing on is making friends with everyone.

So yes, in some cases, I think the friend zone does exist and it is a place I will strive to put myself when I get to college. Not by every girl of course, but the goal is to be friends with the cute girls while fucking the hot ones.

This mindset is important because the school is fairly small. Assuming reputation will be king.

I think you are talking about making "friends" with girls, not actually having them be friends.

Yes- you want to be the social connection and have a lot of girls around you, but you'll never be doing beta shit with them.

Here's the difference:

I can comfortably let more of my beta side out around guys.

I'm always having to be alpha around girls, or they don't hear what I'm saying when I talk.

Post: #33

This guy puts out some interesting vids. I stumbled on this one about
"Friendzone". He articulates some fundamental game concepts here:




He talks about the scarcity principle and why making yourself seem hard-to-get is important to build attraction.

It comes down to re-enforcing a girl's sense of freedom. Movie directors do this as well. They use the language of permission to make the actor feel like they are choosing their own actions:

Instead of telling the girl what to do, you make her think that she's got some input.

So, for example, when I first started texting girls I met online, I would say things like:

"Meet me at xxx at xxx time" this is a command, and even though the girl may think my photos are hot, I don't think this kind of commanding language is appropriate until after the first bang.

Now I say stuff like "Can you meet at xxx at xxx time" This gives them a little more feeling that they are in control.

-----

"We desire things that are difficult to obtain because we don't like to have our freedom limited."

I also suggest things instead of begging. Instead "I'd like to meet you for a drink" I'll say "Maybe we can get a drink sometime this week" It doesn't sound as needy.

This come from Robert Cialdini's 6 key principles of influence:
6 key principles of influence by Robert Cialdini

Reciprocity - People tend to return a favor, thus the pervasiveness of free samples in marketing. In his conferences, he often uses the example of Ethiopia providing thousands of dollars in humanitarian aid to Mexico just after the 1985 earthquake, despite Ethiopia suffering from a crippling famine and civil war at the time. Ethiopia had been reciprocating for the diplomatic support Mexico provided when Italy invaded Ethiopia in 1935. The good cop/bad cop strategy is also based on this principle.

Commitment and Consistency - If people commit, orally or in writing, to an idea or goal, they are more likely to honor that commitment because of establishing that idea or goal as being congruent with their self-image. Even if the original incentive or motivation is removed after they have already agreed, they will continue to honor the agreement. Cialdini notes Chinese brainwashing on American prisoners of war to rewrite their self-image and gain automatic unenforced compliance. See cognitive dissonance.

Social Proof - People will do things that they see other people are doing. For example, in one experiment, one or more confederates would look up into the sky; bystanders would then look up into the sky to see what they were seeing. At one point this experiment aborted, as so many people were looking up that they stopped traffic. See conformity, and the Asch conformity experiments.

Authority - People will tend to obey authority figures, even if they are asked to perform objectionable acts. Cialdini cites incidents such as the Milgram experiments in the early 1960s and the My Lai massacre.

Liking - People are easily persuaded by other people that they like. Cialdini cites the marketing of Tupperware in what might now be called viral marketing. People were more likely to buy if they liked the person selling it to them. Some of the many biases favoring more attractive people are discussed. See physical attractiveness stereotype.

Scarcity - Perceived scarcity will generate demand. For example, saying offers are available for a "limited time only" encourages sales.


The vid also offers a prescription for how to start to get out of the "Friendzone":

The first and most obvious thing to all the players on here- make yourself less available and see how she responds.

Or use the "Ben Franklin Effect": Ask her to do favors for you. I always do this if I'm at a bar with my guitar. I ask girls to watch it while I use the bathroom. The theory is that the it creates cognitive dissonance in the mind- why would she be doing favors for you if she didn't like you?

Cyberbalkinization-
Maybe we can use the fact that people are more lonely in general these days to wriggle in some game..

Post: #34

Post: #35

(07-14-2013 11:15 PM)soup Wrote:  

(07-14-2013 05:47 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Well, if you don't make your intentions with a girl clear then how is she suppose to know what you want? Unless a girl is really into you and is comfortable with her sexuality you may actually have to do ALL the work. And this is the problem most guys, include me, have - when we have to do all the work. The girl is not sending any sexual signals or making any attempt to be sexual with you...she's just basically sitting there waiting for you to do everything. And even after you start she may just continue to allow things without participating much herself. To deal with this you had better be one horny bastard or be really into that girl.

Yeah- horniness of the highest almost intellectual level sublimated into persistence.

I have had to work 3 x harder to touch a 5's tit than I have a 9.4's.

Wait what?

Post: #36

Here's a video I put out last year:

Post: #37

(12-07-2013 11:07 PM)pheonix500000 Wrote:  

(07-14-2013 11:15 PM)soup Wrote:  

(07-14-2013 05:47 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Well, if you don't make your intentions with a girl clear then how is she suppose to know what you want? Unless a girl is really into you and is comfortable with her sexuality you may actually have to do ALL the work. And this is the problem most guys, include me, have - when we have to do all the work. The girl is not sending any sexual signals or making any attempt to be sexual with you...she's just basically sitting there waiting for you to do everything. And even after you start she may just continue to allow things without participating much herself. To deal with this you had better be one horny bastard or be really into that girl.

Yeah- horniness of the highest almost intellectual level sublimated into persistence.

I have had to work 3 x harder to touch a 5's tit than I have a 9.4's.

Wait what?

Not saying it's easier to bang 9s, but a lot of models do a lot of drugs. If you catch them on the upswing...

Also, 5s can be really defensive because they know they are essentially cum receptacles.

I posted about the 9 who was a vogue model in the players lounge. Go look it up.

Post: #38

"Red pill alpha", "red pill friendzone", "blue pill friendzone", "beta chode".

Reading this shit is hilarious.

Post: #39

I believe that:

1. Men and women can be friends, albeit rarely, because ...
2. ...women naturally prefer a friendzone type of relationship over an actual friendship.

What is the difference?

In the first case, the girl is a friend and you do friend-like things with her - talk, hang out, lend each other stuff, meet each other's friends from time to time, maybe give each other a birthday gift, etc. You might be sexually attracted to her simply because you're attracted to all good-looking girls, but you don't have an active desire to get with her or ever feel disappointed that you haven't done that yet.

In the second case, the girl uses the guy (who is always sexually attracted to her) for pathetic stuff that one would never do to a friend. She calls him at night to cry over being pumped and dumped, goads him into being her personal gift-bot or ego-booster, and generally has no boundaries or sense of reciprocation that are the hallmarks of real friendship. She is engaging in parasitism on him.

Almost every girl I know has at least one guy in the friendzone, but very few have a guy for a friend.

As for me, the last time I was in a friendzone was some 6-7 years ago, and I have since become invulnerable to that shit. If I'm attracted to her and she wants to "just be friends" (i.e. friendzone me), I next and that's it. No second thoughts. The chance that she'd actually want to be friends is less than 1%, it's not worth sticking around to find out, and I already have enough friends.

I do have one female friend, whom I've known since high school. She's rather plain (although with a nice, tight body), shy and still a virgin. I wonder if she might be asexual. She is however very smart, polite, helpful and maybe the only woman I've ever met who actually understands red pill principles and can talk about it without the hamster taking over. Spending time with her is cool.

Post: #40

(07-13-2013 02:40 AM)soup Wrote:  I'm at a point where I don't believe that men and women can be friends, and where I see that the only thing that stands in the way of penetration is inadequate or inappropriate game.

It is because of this that I no longer believe in the "Friendzone." It is a logical impossibility.

"Friendzone" is a term most likely termed by women.

It is essentially what happens when the man gives the frame to the woman.

As a player, you don't have "Friendzone."

If you are on top of your game, you can't be put in the "Friendzone," because you are the one calling the shots.

"Friendzone" is just another shit test.

Great post Soup. Many dudes believe they can be friends with women they are attracted to. They end up being teased by the chick or waiting in the wing to slide her some dick in the future. FUCK THAT! If I can't get a chick for whatever reason, there is no need for us to be friends. A chick tried that friends shit with me after we had made out on the first night we met. She pulled that shit while at my house at midnight. I put her ass out in the cold snow.

All women require attention and my attention comes with DICK! It's package deal that can't be separated. Men must realize that women who put you in the friendzone only want you as an emotional crutch. After they leave your place, they come to mine and get penis.

Has anyone had a chick tell them that they only want to cuddle? They do this when they aren't receiving intimacy from their fuck buddies. They know they can call some lame dude in the friendzone and he'll be happy to waste his time cooking her dinner, massaging her feet, or engage in some other simp activity. If he tries to hit it, she'll pull that "friends" bullshit and the simp will choose to stay in his place. These dudes will also make excuses for this shit and it's fuckin pathetic.

Post: #41

Friend zone does exist.
I just realize it much quicker now.
This girl that I met at a bar a few weeks ago met up with me Thursday night, with my cousin. Had a few drinks...didn't get the bang. Just had good conversation. Went to a football game..she and her sister tailgated with us. Met up with her and sis after game with cousins and a buddy of mine. Didn't get the bang, but she paid me back for taxi money I gave her.
Realizing I wasn't going to close the deal anytime soon, I was pretty much like, "next".
Texted me this morning
"I would really like to be friends. You are a cool guy. I will give you the 25 I owe next time I see you! Have a good day."
Saw it...was like whatever. Waited about 5 hours and texted her back, "you already paid me". I didn't mention anything about hanging out with her again....she basically wanted to confirm "friend zone". I didn't...I rejected it basically by not mentioning it. She replied, "oh, ok I didn't think I did."
I probably could have said something other than what I did, but I didn't want to show any emotion in my reply.
I'll wait for her to text me again before I try to get a meet up. Probably a lost cause. We'll see.

It does exist, but only if you allow it to.

Post: #42

The area can exist if you allow it but a woman will only try to put you there if you aren't clear in your intent. If you push up on her with sexual intent, she won't try to put you in the friendzone as you have displayed that you aren't that guy. If you just hang out with them on that first date, they will attempt to put you their quickly.

You also stated that you didn't see her for a few weeks after getting her number. That can lead to your stock dropping with her as many men have already tried to slide her some dick and I'm sure a few have. Did you try to amp up the attraction? If not, I understand because I've been there too. If I feel it isn't going well, I I burn it to the ground. I can't be friends with women that I am not fucking

Post: #43

(12-17-2013 06:49 AM)TheDealCloser Wrote:  The area can exist if you allow it but a woman will only try to put you there if you aren't clear in your intent. If you push up on her with sexual intent, she won't try to put you in the friendzone as you have displayed that you aren't that guy. If you just hang out with them on that first date, they will attempt to put you their quickly.

You also stated that you didn't see her for a few weeks after getting her number. That can lead to your stock dropping with her as many men have already tried to slide her some dick and I'm sure a few have. Did you try to amp up the attraction? If not, I understand because I've been there too. If I feel it isn't going well, I I burn it to the ground. I can't be friends with women that I am not fucking

My problem with not seeing her for a few weeks was I work in West Texas during the week and live in Dallas most weekends...every other weekend, Thursday night through Monday. Would have been there that next weekend but with the ice storm there was know way to get back...no pussy is worth that drive.
I should have escalated more during the 2 weeks I was gone but didn't want to text too much. Texted every few days.


I've had this problem since taking this position in July. I'm having to try to close in a few days rather than giving in 4-5 days. I've been successful closing in a few days a few times since, but that was only when I met a girl on a Thursday night and got the close on a Saturday night.
In West Texas during the week I work a lot, go to the gym, do Jiu Jitsu, so I'm stuck with doing online. Tinder/POF/Okcupid. Only been successful on weeks where I knew I was going to be in town that weekend. That's only been a few times as well. Then I also fucked a cute maid at my hotel, haha.

I'm working against myself by texting without being able to set something up in Dallas, but I'd rather text than have her forget about me while other guys are hitting on them at every chance. If anyone has any advice on my situation I'd appreciate it. I didn't want to start a new thread about this.

Post: #44

Men's responsibility is generally to take the lead. If you don't take the lead in creating a sexual atmosphere, then there won't be sex. You will be the eunuch guarding the harem.

It actually makes sense to be in the friend for some girls. They can introduce you to all their friends who you can then date.
But obviously you need to be in control of who friend zone's you and who doesn't. This requires learning how to take the lead, and to not be afraid of rejection.

Most unwanted friend zonings are because the man is afraid of rejection. Or he is unable to smoothly escalate to sexual tension. If she is your friend and you suddenly try to kiss her...weird. But if you trade sexy massages a few times first.... not so weird.

Game is about giving a girl a series of easy decisions.

And I guess you could say Leading is about giving people a series of easy decisions. (easy to say yes to)

Post: #45

This thread has been somewhat of an eye opener. Some of this stuff was obvious. It was good to see some other "friend zone" stories.
Time to man up and not accept this shit. It's done. If I get in another situation like this I'm just gonna be straight forward. If it helps me get the lay, awesome, if not.....f it. NEXT.
Not gonna stand for this shit anymore.

I have 3 girls that I've allowed in my friend zone. One, is my cousin. She knows her shit and introduces me to her friends. It's my job to close the deal. She actually has good advice and wants to help me. I know it's not always great to confide to a woman, but she's my cousin.
The other is a girl I went to high school with. She's cute with a good body. She's introduced me to some girls. I close the deal with a girl she works with that she pretty much hooked me up with. I can deal with that. I help her and she helps me. I would hit it, but she's too valuable to me since she can hook me up. Why ruin a good thing, right?
The 3rd was one of my best friends. She's passed on due to cancer, She's one of the reasons though why I saw too much good in a girl. One of a kind type of girl. Haven't met anyone that comes close to the type of girl she was.

That's all....it's either man up or shut up at this point. IF I end up in Dallas this weekend, I'll be fucking as many of the girls I've been working on. If not, they're dead to me. NEXT.

/rant

Post: #46

(12-17-2013 07:03 PM)txtraveler Wrote:  This thread has been somewhat of an eye opener. Some of this stuff was obvious. It was good to see some other "friend zone" stories.
Time to man up and not accept this shit. It's done. If I get in another situation like this I'm just gonna be straight forward. If it helps me get the lay, awesome, if not.....f it. NEXT.
Not gonna stand for this shit anymore.

I have 3 girls that I've allowed in my friend zone. One, is my cousin. She knows her shit and introduces me to her friends. It's my job to close the deal. She actually has good advice and wants to help me. I know it's not always great to confide to a woman, but she's my cousin.
The other is a girl I went to high school with. She's cute with a good body. She's introduced me to some girls. I close the deal with a girl she works with that she pretty much hooked me up with. I can deal with that. I help her and she helps me. I would hit it, but she's too valuable to me since she can hook me up. Why ruin a good thing, right?
The 3rd was one of my best friends. She's passed on due to cancer, She's one of the reasons though why I saw too much good in a girl. One of a kind type of girl. Haven't met anyone that comes close to the type of girl she was.

That's all....it's either man up or shut up at this point. IF I end up in Dallas this weekend, I'll be fucking as many of the girls I've been working on. If not, they're dead to me. NEXT.

/rant

Can't edit my posts now, but if anyone else has any friend zone stories to share please do. It'll help all of us realize what we've done wrong in the past and help us realize when this is happening and how to avoid it.

Post: #47

I was a firm believer until a month ago

I was friends with this girl, a co-worker, she was in a looong term relationship, we clicked and became close friends, we ate together everyday at work, chatted all the time but never once talked about hooking up.

I got a new job and moved to a different city not too far away, we were texting all the time still nothing about hooking up.

I was actually proud of myself, this was the first time I was cool with being a girl's friend

Soooo... last month I see her for the first time in a long time, we go to lunch, we are chatting just like old times shes telling me about how she finally got rid of her useless guy, they had been together all of her adult life(late 20s now) and she was seeing a new lame.

Then later... out of left field she says she only started hanging out with that guy because she wanted to be with me in the summer but didn't pursue it because she thought I said something I really didn't say, so when I showed her our text history and cleared my name she got really emotional.

Starts talking about us being together now and then as I'm taking her back to work she says something about the distance... so I drop the subject, as I'm saying don't leave me for so long again, she doesn't want to get out of the car, so I jump right out of the friend zone and said in a nice way in Spanish shut up and kiss me, she does after a little fridgiting, I say, lets put all this miscommunication behind us, and everything was cool or so I thought...

Well since then she went dark, sent her a couple text, nothing, she probably blocked me from texting her lol, called her once rejected...

So I was thinking if this is how it ends were we ever friends in the first place, if not what was the last year and a half of my life. baffling.

What can you do, lesson learned, never again.

Post: #48

I have lots of great female friends. We just also happen to have some sort of sexual relationship

Post: #49

man and women can not be JUST friends with no sexual tension or some type of want at some point...

we (men and women) were not made to simply be FRIENDS..

those days went out the window once we stated puberty.

our dick fits into the pussy so well like that for a reason.

when you're not fucking a bitch. it always feels like something is off

Post: #50

(12-18-2013 09:47 PM)Mr. Butterworth Wrote:  man and women can not be JUST friends with no sexual tension or some type of want at some point...

we (men and women) were not made to simply be FRIENDS..

those days went out the window once we stated puberty.

our dick fits into the pussy so well like that for a reason.

when you're not fucking a bitch. it always feels like something is off

For me, "female friend" is just a polite way of describing a chick a guy hasn't fucked yet.