Post: #1

Creepy is a word that gets thrown around a lot in the field. Girls tend to label anything they don't like as "Creepy".

Around here, we chalk it up to them being kind of stupid and constantly shit testing and shaming men.

However, there might actually be something more to their use of the word.





After watching this video that takes apart creepiness, we can see how girls might actually be getting creeped-out by bad game.

In the video, ambiguity is talked about as being one of the main components of creepiness. Translated into game terms, we can understand ambiguity as incongruence and weak intention.

Incongruence is actually beyond ambiguity and is more a dissonance. When things don't match up, it's going to create a sour feeling for the girl. This is why everything about you has to be congruent. There can't be any bumps in the road. You have to create a seamless experience that will sweep her off her feet.

Girls are very sensitive and animalistic in that they don't use their rational brain to make a lot of decisions and are very in-tune with vibes/subtext/non-verbal communication/etc. They are always going off their emotions. This is probably why the phrase "I feel that.." is replacing "I think that..." in the last few months.

If you don't have strong intentions, they will sense this. You really have to approach the game with strong intentions. If you don't, the girl will get creeped out by your ambiguity: "why is this guy talking to me?"

You don't want to come off as an "uncanny humanoid"

Guys who have taken the red pill and have decided to leave the flock of betas on a journey to the alpha world will come against much more friction than either the betas or the alphas. This is because he is an ambiguous state. He's a "Balpha" or a "Betpha".

The Balpha will come across as creepy to a girl because of his ambiguity. He doesn't belong to either tribe anymore; "The better the devil you know than the devil you don't know"

So, maybe girls really are getting "creeped" out.

Post: #2

Nah. Girls didn't complain about most guys being creepy as recently as the 90's. In the 80's this discussion would have been inconceivable.

The pejorative is simply an admission of how anti-social most young people, especially including herd-minded girls, are today.

There have always been guys who hit on girls with ambiguous or incongruous intentions. And they were never labeled with such a broad brush. Only at the extremes were they condemned as nerds, geeks, or losers.

People today are not habituated to socializing with strangers and are instinctually suspicious of anyone outside their social circle, despite or perhaps paradoxically *because* of low crime rates. The result is that girls absurdly label most guys as creepy.

They're just signaling their discomfort with socializing in a freewheeling fashion. They need the state or the heavy hand of fat girlfriends and testy white knights to prevent them from feeling discomfort.

Post: #3

I figured 'creepy' meant to show interest in a socially awkward manner. Like if you were flirting with a girl like Smeagol from Lord of the Rings, calling her 'my precious' and shit, that's creepy.

Post: #4

(07-06-2013 02:25 AM)Therapsid Wrote:  Nah. Girls didn't complain about most guys being creepy as recently as the 90's. In the 80's this discussion would have been inconceivable.

The pejorative is simply an admission of how anti-social most young people, especially including herd-minded girls, are today.

There have always been guys who hit on girls with ambiguous or incongruous intentions. And they were never labeled with such a broad brush. Only at the extremes were they condemned as nerds, geeks, or losers.

People today are not habituated to socializing with strangers and are instinctually suspicious of anyone outside their social circle, despite or perhaps paradoxically *because* of low crime rates. The result is that girls absurdly label most guys as creepy.

They're just signaling their discomfort with socializing in a freewheeling fashion. They need the state or the heavy hand of fat girlfriends and testy white knights to prevent them from feeling discomfort.

When I say ambiguous intentions, I mean like a guy who's anxiety takes over while he's talking to a girl. The girl is going to sense his anxiety and wonder why he doesn't just go with his feeling like her, and go to a place of more comfort. She's also going to be thinking subconsciously that if he can't listen to his own feelings, than he won't be able to listen to mine or connect with me.

An alpha won't have this anxiety while macking a girl. The beta wouldn't be macking her and would only stick to safe conversation. Both of those guys are ok and don't have anxiety, but the guy who is halfway is going to have the most trouble.

Post: #5

(07-06-2013 02:36 AM)Albertron Wrote:  I figured 'creepy' meant to show interest in a socially awkward manner. Like if you were flirting with a girl like Smeagol from Lord of the Rings, calling her 'my precious' and shit, that's creepy.

It's creepy because you'd be pedestalizing her by calling her "precious" and you didn't make her work for it, so it makes you look desperate or needy.

Post: #6

(07-06-2013 02:25 AM)Therapsid Wrote:  Nah. Girls didn't complain about most guys being creepy as recently as the 90's. In the 80's this discussion would have been inconceivable.

The pejorative is simply an admission of how anti-social most young people, especially including herd-minded girls, are today.

There have always been guys who hit on girls with ambiguous or incongruous intentions. And they were never labeled with such a broad brush. Only at the extremes were they condemned as nerds, geeks, or losers.

People today are not habituated to socializing with strangers and are instinctually suspicious of anyone outside their social circle, despite or perhaps paradoxically *because* of low crime rates. The result is that girls absurdly label most guys as creepy.

They're just signaling their discomfort with socializing in a freewheeling fashion. They need the state or the heavy hand of fat girlfriends and testy white knights to prevent them from feeling discomfort.

This is great.

Post: #7

(07-06-2013 02:44 AM)soup Wrote:  

(07-06-2013 02:36 AM)Albertron Wrote:  I figured 'creepy' meant to show interest in a socially awkward manner. Like if you were flirting with a girl like Smeagol from Lord of the Rings, calling her 'my precious' and shit, that's creepy.

It's creepy because you'd be pedestalizing her by calling her "precious" and you didn't make her work for it, so it makes you look desperate or needy.

Nah, it's probably the crawling around and hissing.

Post: #8

Wow. That was actually pretty interesting, and worth watching again. Thanks for posting.

Post: #9

Creepy is hiding your true intentions.

Creepy guys communicate as if friend to a friend and set the wrong frame.

It's like having a fully impersonal conversation devoid of sexual subcommunication and then in the end saying "Can I have your number?" as if to say oh I actually have a dick.

We've all seen the drunk guy stare a girl while desperately waiting for her to reciprocate. Creepy as fuck.

Post: #10

(07-06-2013 12:16 PM)reino341 Wrote:  Creepy is hiding your true intentions.

Creepy guys communicate as if friend to a friend and set the wrong frame.

It's like having a fully impersonal conversation devoid of sexual subcommunication and then in the end saying "Can I have your number?" as if to say oh I actually have a dick.

We've all seen the drunk guy stare a girl while desperately waiting for her to reciprocate. Creepy as fuck.

The predatory gaze can be intense. This is the look you get from guys when they are contemplating robbing you on the street.

Post: #11

If I approach a girl and she finds me attractive, I am cool. If she doesn't, I am creepy.

Post: #12

It is a byproduct of the times. Technology.

Today a six year old girl can find the alpha with considerable ease. He is the guy on the Disney channel. Or the guy with the quirky youtube channel.

That six year old girl is learning at a really young age how the cute popular guys make her feel. she is learning it through TV or the internet. (Corollary: she is also learning how to behave to get the cute boy's attention)

Now imagine when she goes outside into the real world. Do six year old boys act like those boys on the Disney channel? Seven year olds? Eight? Ten? Twelve? Fourteen? Eighteen?

I would argue that a six year old girl with TV and internet is already well aware to notice behaviors of dominance and popularity. The creepiness comes in because her entire generation of boys is simply not on the same level. Yet society has to lump everyone together in school, etc.

The double standard: a six year old boy is at an evolutionary disadvantage to notice displays of dominance. He would be upset to notice it because he cannot challenge anyone at a young and weak age. I would suggest that boys are biologically hardwired to be naive and ignorant of it until their teens.

Postscript: girls need exposure to as many men as possible to learn who the best is. Technology helps that A LOT.

Post: #13

(07-06-2013 03:40 AM)Ben Akiba Wrote:  

(07-06-2013 02:25 AM)Therapsid Wrote:  Nah. Girls didn't complain about most guys being creepy as recently as the 90's. In the 80's this discussion would have been inconceivable.

The pejorative is simply an admission of how anti-social most young people, especially including herd-minded girls, are today.

There have always been guys who hit on girls with ambiguous or incongruous intentions. And they were never labeled with such a broad brush. Only at the extremes were they condemned as nerds, geeks, or losers.

People today are not habituated to socializing with strangers and are instinctually suspicious of anyone outside their social circle, despite or perhaps paradoxically *because* of low crime rates. The result is that girls absurdly label most guys as creepy.

They're just signaling their discomfort with socializing in a freewheeling fashion. They need the state or the heavy hand of fat girlfriends and testy white knights to prevent them from feeling discomfort.

This is great.

Yeah, I disagree with the "incongruence" theory, and lean more to the "acceptable anti-sociality" theory and endemic narcissism.
I was a high-IQ ADD oddball all through high school over 30 years ago, and girls called me "weird" all the time. That word in particular. The same girls would hang out with me and sort-of like me, "weird" was more of an observation rather than the nasty, accusatory judgment "creepy" implied. Weird meant "different", "creepy" means disgusting and unworthy.

Women are insulted if a non-hot guy hits on them, they have to rationalize that there is really something wrong with him for him to think he had a chance with THEM.

Being superficially friendly and indirect at first would be totally fine if you were a hedgie or a rock star. It would, in fact, show that you were "really a nice guy" as well as an alpha.

However, I do agree with the advocates of the incongruence theory in that by being pretty direct pretty soon you avoid wasting time with self-styled princesses.

I also disagree with this weird fixation on the State. I haven't had a cop or any other bureaucrat say a single word to me in about a year. If I am thinking about them all the time, or feeling them as an omnipotent, malevolent presence, I'm doing that to myself. Almost all the cops I've ever dealt with were there because I was going 80 in a 55 or something, they clearly were doing their job. If you're reading about Snowden and thinking it applies to you significantly, you might as well be reading 1001 Nights and taking it literally, that's how far that battleground is from you unless you choose to be involved in politics.

Post: #14

(07-06-2013 12:45 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  If I approach a girl and she finds me attractive, I am cool. If she doesn't, I am creepy.

Pretty much this.

Hiding intentions or not really doesn't matter. I've seen guys who were too sexual ended up being labeled "creeps".

'Creep' is a powerful word. It's very value laden.

If a woman says, "WOW! He was bad." It's almost like saying something along the lines of, "His skills were shit." Whereas with the word creep it hits harder. A "WOW! He was creepy" hits more at the character of the man whereas bad/horrible/terrible/and variations thereof hits at his skills.

This is why 'creep' is such a powerful word.

Now, why it's used so much, what behavior causes this a labeling, and whether there can be an exact or approximate definition is another question.

Post: #15

I can see bad indirect game coming across as creepy. Indirect game is ambiguous by definition. It's very subtle and playful. Very easy to do wrong. Very effective when done right. I've had girls straight up grab me and kiss me.

Post: #16

(07-06-2013 01:40 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  a

I also disagree with this weird fixation on the State. I haven't had a cop or any other bureaucrat say a single word to me in about a year. If I am thinking about them all the time, or feeling them as an omnipotent, malevolent presence, I'm doing that to myself. Almost all the cops I've ever dealt with were there because I was going 80 in a 55 or something, they clearly were doing their job. If you're reading about Snowden and thinking it applies to you significantly, you might as well be reading 1001 Nights and taking it literally, that's how far that battleground is from you unless you choose to be involved in politics.

If you're willing to pay every tax and charge and cost imposed on you, submit to every regulation no matter how intrusive and controlling, don't mind the government collecting all of your private electronic communications, are fine with the government having all of your medical records (Obamacare does that) and deciding what your medical care will and will not be, won't say anything when the tax and bureaucratic regulatory authorities are used to persecute those who speak out against encroaching government, won't object when the government controls the use of the thermostat and appliances in your home and and monitors activities in your home (see smart meters), think the federal goverment creating a fearsome internal security system is ok with you,and generally keep quiet and don't challenge anything that's being done to you, why should agents of the State bother you?

The government doesn't waste resources going after the obedient who do what they're told,keep quiet and never threaten the power of the elites or the dominant ideology by speaking out or organizing, and pay whatever is demanded; it's only when someone becomes a problem child that the enormous coercive power of the state is used against them

Post: #17

Girls just can sense whether you are interested in her or not. Let's say she is next to you looking at some produce and you are not even looking at her. you are just thinking about 'what should I say'. But she can feel your presence. As you keep thinking about it, she can sense it more and will get creeped out.

Obviously I creep out girls all the time.

To avoid this, you either have to approach right away as soon as she notices your presence or completely ignore her.
By thinking 'wait, I need to set my stories straight', it will get worse and worse.

I think there is nothing wrong if you creep her out by approaching. (can you be a good speaker in beginning stage?)
But it's not constructive if you creep her out by hesitating. (95% of guys fall into this category)

Post: #18

When women live in poverty, it is amazing how fast they do not see guys as creepy or incongruent or ambiguious. They are non issues. It is only when women get affluent does creepy become an issue.

Post: #19

I had an short interaction with a guy yesterday that would be characterized as "creepy" by modern American women.

I went to the bookstore with my friend. We were looking at some of the classic literature that was on sale.

One of the guys that worked there came up to us and started talking.

He stood 10 feet away completely still. He was talking, but it was obvious that he felt really bad/anxious inside.

I felt it as a weird vibe. I gave him little to work with, so the interaction would end as quickly as possible.

I would say the guy was harmless, but talking to him was unbearable. When someone feels so weird and uncomfortable inside that it makes me feel weird and uncomfortable, I try to avoid them.

(07-06-2013 12:32 PM)soup Wrote:  The predatory gaze can be intense. This is the look you get from guys when they are contemplating robbing you on the street.

I saw this once.

I went to a house party a few months ago. It was not the best house party I have ever been to to say the least.

At this house party, I saw this guy. He was obese, and about 6'2". He had made it up in his mind that he was going to take these two specific girls home with him that night.

He had this malicious look on his face. I would describe it as a fake grin that was betrayed by a violent look in his eyes.

He would grab their arms and asses. He would also shove his body against them. Multiple times the girls would try to get away from him, but he would be two steps behind them. He would not leave them alone, even though it was obvious that he was scaring them.

The girls left early without him.

Post: #20

(07-06-2013 03:46 PM)MrXY Wrote:  

(07-06-2013 01:40 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  a

I also disagree with this weird fixation on the State. I haven't had a cop or any other bureaucrat say a single word to me in about a year. If I am thinking about them all the time, or feeling them as an omnipotent, malevolent presence, I'm doing that to myself. Almost all the cops I've ever dealt with were there because I was going 80 in a 55 or something, they clearly were doing their job. If you're reading about Snowden and thinking it applies to you significantly, you might as well be reading 1001 Nights and taking it literally, that's how far that battleground is from you unless you choose to be involved in politics.

If you're willing to pay every tax and charge and cost imposed on you, submit to every regulation no matter how intrusive and controlling, don't mind the government collecting all of your private electronic communications, are fine with the government having all of your medical records (Obamacare does that) and deciding what your medical care will and will not be, won't say anything when the tax and bureaucratic regulatory authorities are used to persecute those who speak out against encroaching government, won't object when the government controls the use of the thermostat and appliances in your home and and monitors activities in your home (see smart meters), think the federal goverment creating a fearsome internal security system is ok with you,and generally keep quiet and don't challenge anything that's being done to you, why should agents of the State bother you?

The government doesn't waste resources going after the obedient who do what they're told,keep quiet and never threaten the power of the elites or the dominant ideology by speaking out or organizing, and pay whatever is demanded; it's only when someone becomes a problem child that the enormous coercive power of the state is used against them

All of this may be true.

Everything is of the rich, for the rich, and by the rich, it was long before I was here, and will be that way long after I'm gone.

Don't complain to someone who can't do anything about it.

(From EST or Scientology I think.)

I want nothing to do with politics except I might vote for you if you run!!
You're welcome to it if you want to change anything. Explain your platform, run for office, maybe I'll vote for you as the candidate for the Anti-Surveillance party!