Post: #1

I decided to start a new thread because I was getting this other thread: /thread-25459-...#pid483612 off topic.

I said this, and I would like to know your guys thoughts:

Quote:Does this ever happen to you guys:

You meet a great girl (good looking, sweet, good family, class, money, would be a great mother, the kind of girl you actually would marry etc) and after you date her a while you completely lose sexual attraction to her.

Am I alone on this one?

MikeCF gave some great insights already.

This has really been a "problem" for me. It has happened to me at least three times in my life where I meet a phenomenal girl, and I really get into her.

But once I put her in the "potential wife/potential mother of my children" role, I lose all sexual attraction to her.

Keep in mind, she is the same girl, didn't get fat, nothing like that. Hell, I like her even more than ever. But then I am not sexually attracted to her.

Is this normal?

Is there anyway around this?

Or if you do meet a girl like this to have kids with, do you just have to cheat?

Is that the only option?

Any thoughts/insights would be greatly appreciated.

Post: #2

G-man- you've been living the "swoop lots of girls" life for too long. I don't suspect its the girl being a "perfect mother" so much as you get bored boning the same girl over and over again.

Personally, need about 2-3 stable "good" girls in my life and a few ONS every once in a while.

Can't personally opine on the cheating thing.

Post: #3

(07-05-2013 12:58 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Quote:Does this ever happen to you guys:

You meet a great girl (good looking, sweet, good family, class, money, would be a great mother, the kind of girl you actually would marry etc) and after you date her a while you completely lose sexual attraction to her.

Am I alone on this one?

This has really been a "problem" for me. It has happened to me at least three times in my life where I meet a phenomenal girl, and I really get into her.

But once I put her in the "potential wife/potential mother of my children" role, I lose all sexual attraction to her.

Is this normal?

Is there anyway around this?

Any thoughts/insights would be greatly appreciated.

I don't have a solution, but I am totally 100% with you - this has happened to me twice.

A skank that I wouldn't let raise a turtle I can bone three times in an evening. But a doctor who was kind, hadn't ridden the cock carousel, studied child-rearing even before she had kids, kept herself in shape, who would daily read the NY Times and send me articles about my interests? I would do her about once a week, and that was usually at her initiating.

One thing I can say though - looking back, she isn't as physically attractive as I remember. I remembered her being really pretty, at least a 7. But I just checked her pics again, she is more realistically a 5 on a good day. I think the weight of her personality/potential made me overgrade her.

Post: #4

There is definitely some madonna/whore aspect in this dynamic. It is rare to find a woman you described, then have some beta feelings towards her and still fuck her like a dirty whore. Also, Coolidge effect.

Post: #5

This thread is real talk.

We all like to mock women for wanting it all, but we are cursed in a same way. We want it all.

We want sweet feminine women who are also...slutty enough to have sex with us. That in itself is a contradiction, unless you start believing your own hype and think, "Well she's a good girl. She just did these things with me because I'm one of a kind."

Many of us want kids...But a good mom isn't going to be the hottest girl. Hot girls are horrible moms since being a mom means putting someone else first - which means a girl has to go against her conditioning.

A hot girl is a fun companion but not a good one. Plus, we all get dopamine depleted by having fun, and thus what's fun today is not fun tomorrow.

A good companion is easy going, happy to see you, eager to please you. As a man, that triggers protective instincts and paradoxically a woman who puts her man first finds that her man has also put her first.

Who is more likely to be that great companion - a 9 who has had guys giving her free coffee since she was 13 and then graduating to having guys and buy her drinks and jewelry and paying for every trip she has ever taken, and bailed her out of credit card debt and paid for every car repair she needed (or leased her a car)....

Or a slightly above average girl who, while getting plenty of male attention, has still had to responsibly manage her own affairs?

When you think through these issues, you really appreciate why the "wife with the mistress on the side" has worked for alpha males for thousands of years.

A welcoming home life and good family is awesome. But a mom and wife ain't the hot slut you put on her knees when you walk into the door. She's the one who changes your baby's diapers and sings good night to your child. Do you really want to throat fuck that woman?

Guys who are considering having a family need to think about this stuff.

I always hear guys say, "A man is in his prime in his 60s," and then they give examples of billionaires or guys who pay for sluts in Thailand and other 3d world countries.

I have been wrestling with these issues myself and they are certainly not "fun" to think about but it's necessary as a man, as time waits for no one.

Post: #6

Quote:But once I put her in the "potential wife/potential mother of my children" role, I lose all sexual attraction to her.

Keep in mind, she is the same girl, didn't get fat, nothing like that. Hell, I like her even more than ever. But then I am not sexually attracted to her.

I am sure you dont lose all sexual attraction to her, you just lose the rawness of attraction. Go Beta, make love to her once a week or so and enjoy the company of a quality woman.

But on the side there has to be a yang to her ying. Unless you are like MikeCF mentioned where the family unit becomes one solid life form of its own. But for a single(ish) player with no kids there has to be a contrast in women in order to get everything that makes a man happy. Sometimes I forget that we are outliers in this regard, even men around me who have been in the game a number of years still get surprised that I can cheat on great women.

Frankly I should be, too. But its been like this for too long that I forget sometimes what monogamy is like.

Wait, no I dont. I have tried it, and it is not for me. I refuse to give up the fulfillment I get from balancing two opposing women. But having said that it sucks to lose a quality woman because of this (but I never have, oddly).

Post: #7

Thanks MikeCF.

Yeah, this is literally f*cking with my head.

It is heavy, because it uproots everything you "think" you are about.

It is like you don't even know who you are or what you want in life.

I really don't like it.

Post: #8

Growth is painful.

Carl Jung's, "The Stages of Life" is really interesting reading.

Here's an essay summarizing it along with some excerpts:

http://www.philosophicalsociety.com/arch...20Life.htm

Quote:"When we must deal with problems, we instinctively resist trying the way that leads through obscurity and darkness. We wish to hear only of unequivocal results, and completely forget that these results can only be brought about when we have ventured into and emerged again from the darkness. But to penetrate the darkness we must summon all the powers of enlightenment that consciousness can offer; as I have already said, we must even indulge in speculations...

"Something in us wishes to remain a child, to be unconscious or, at most, conscious only of the ego; to reject everything strange, or else subject it to our will; to do nothing, or else indulge our own craving for pleasure or power. In all this there is something of the inertia of matter; it is a persistence in the previous state whose range of consciousness is smaller, narrower, and more egoistic than that of the dualistic phase. For here the individual is faced with the necessity of recognizing and accepting what is different and strange as a part of his own life, as a kind of 'also-I'.

Post: #9

We say that banging lots of guys ruins girls, but why isn't the same true of guys? It may take many more, but over time, can't the constant turnover of women corrode us on the inside? Marriage, family, children, these are all very mundane in a real sense...the antithesis of the lifestyle.

Post: #10

(07-05-2013 02:49 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  This thread is real talk.

We all like to mock women for wanting it all, but we are cursed in a same way. We want it all.

We want sweet feminine women who are also...slutty enough to have sex with us. That in itself is a contradiction, unless you start believing your own hype and think, "Well she's a good girl. She just did these things with me because I'm one of a kind."

Many of us want kids...But a good mom isn't going to be the hottest girl. Hot girls are horrible moms since being a mom means putting someone else first - which means a girl has to go against her conditioning.

A hot girl is a fun companion but not a good one. Plus, we all get dopamine depleted by having fun, and thus what's fun today is not fun tomorrow.

A good companion is easy going, happy to see you, eager to please you. As a man, that triggers protective instincts and paradoxically a woman who puts her man first finds that her man has also put her first.

Who is more likely to be that great companion - a 9 who has had guys giving her free coffee since she was 13 and then graduating to having guys and buy her drinks and jewelry and paying for every trip she has ever taken, and bailed her out of credit card debt and paid for every car repair she needed (or leased her a car)....

Or a slightly above average girl who, while getting plenty of male attention, has still had to responsibly manage her own affairs?

When you think through these issues, you really appreciate why the "wife with the mistress on the side" has worked for alpha males for thousands of years.

A welcoming home life and good family is awesome. But a mom and wife ain't the hot slut you put on her knees when you walk into the door. She's the one who changes your baby's diapers and sings good night to your child. Do you really want to throat fuck that woman?

Guys who are considering having a family need to think about this stuff.

I always hear guys say, "A man is in his prime in his 60s," and then they give examples of billionaires or guys who pay for sluts in Thailand and other 3d world countries.

I have been wrestling with these issues myself and they are certainly not "fun" to think about but it's necessary as a man, as time waits for no one.

I believe the key is just to get better game than anyone else out there. You get your game so good, that you can trust that she is with you because you really are one of a kind.

Game is very much about getting girls to do things that they wouldn't normally do. You turn her into your own private slut. Maybe she was a beautiful, chaste Polish girl who grew up in a religious family and never did "dirty" things.

Then you came along.

She's never met a man like you before.

Now, you are her god.

You throat fuck her for love. Because she loves it. For her, this act takes the place of taking the body of Christ at church. It is your cock instead of a wafer that gives her sustenance; it makes her feel desired. You don't even do it for yourself anymore- you do it for her.

Post: #11

Quote:Many of us want kids...But a good mom isn't going to be the hottest girl. Hot girls are horrible moms since being a mom means putting someone else first - which means a girl has to go against her conditioning.

Truth. I see this all the time with the west side wives. Even with kids they still put themselves first and leave nannies to raise the kids in a day to day environment. When the kids do come out with the moms, its to show off their childs fashion and they become little more than an accessory.

Quote:When you think through these issues, you really appreciate why the "wife with the mistress on the side" has worked for alpha males for thousands of years.

There is certainly something very hard wired about this arrangement. At least in me it is.

I am not sure about other guys on here, but for myself I seem to spend much more time alone than most of the men I know. Their time is filled from morning to night with the group, and life is consistent within this group. Obviously the group is controlled by the women and they are the gatekeepers and also the marketing department. Outside loners are only there to upset the balance. When a woman does not know where her man is once in a while she gets anxious. If she rarely knows where her man is, except that he always shows up when he says he will, she will never have this anxiety.

A womans anxiety towards her man likely stems from the feeling of her power (beauty, sexuality, motherhood) slipping from the equation.

Even when living with a woman, or in a close relationship with one its important not to be too open about what it is you do. The more she knows, the more she will think she knows.

Keep her happy in her ignorance and let her love you for the rock you are when you are together. This is all that women who are good quality ever care about. Anything that makes her question this also makes her unhappy.

Nobody wants this.

Post: #12

I would ask if the whole thing about the chick being a "Good girl" was something you realized after the fact or something you realized while you were with her. B/c if its while you were with her, (brace yourself) I'd say you should consider switching to boning her raw full time and let nature take it's course. Im not saying that guys should do the same thing that men in the lower tiers of society do by having kids with no means to support them. I'm saying if you're an established guy with the means, having kids shouldn't be such a scary prospect anymore.

I read something recently about going paleo and it broke down the whole argument for that diet, but it got me thinking about the area me and other dudes should consider going paleo in, their dating/sex lives. By going paleo I mean to trust your gut and primal instincts more and stop trying to mentally project 1,2... 200 hundred steps down the road b/c you can never predict someone elses decisions or behavior. Good girls don't come along everyday and if your gut says she's good and you want kids, then why not go for it.

If you're still wanting to live the playboy lifestyle with kids and a "good girl" then get as good as possible in your business/career/craft. Out of all the stuff I've seen, guys who are undeniably good at what they do (bonus if it's artistic) get to do whatever they want in life. I've seen documentaries recently on 3 prolific artists (Robert Crumb, Charles Bukowski and Quincy Jones). The common thread in all of them was that those guys had kids and banged attractive women, in and out of relationships, their whole lives. Hell, Bukowski didn't even get going with the playboy lifestyle until his late 40's. Something for the guys in the "Is 40 the best age to swoop" thread to think about.

Post: #13

We are supposed to be asking G these questions! Not him asking us!

It always interesting when G goes thru a "Players Dilemma"..

(07-05-2013 12:58 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  But once I put her in the "potential wife/potential mother of my children" role, I lose all sexual attraction to her.

Keep in mind, she is the same girl, didn't get fat, nothing like that. Hell, I like her even more than ever. But then I am not sexually attracted to her.

Is this normal?

For a Playboy, yes.

We have spend so many years trying to NOT settle down with a women, so, when we start to think about a woman in terms of "wife" or "mother", our brain gets confused and starts contradicting itself. There are moments when we don't know what we want. We are fighting against all of our past attitudes, perspectives, and memories. Should we evolve and change? Or, should we stay the same?

It's like our past way of thinking vs. our future way of thinking.

Or,

Our subconscious mind vs. our conscious mind.

These are moments of reflection and growth.

Relax, have a drink, have a smoke, eat fruit, look at the ocean, let this storm pass, the answer will come.

(07-05-2013 12:58 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  Is there anyway around this?

There are many ways around this. They all involve great psychological change. Changing your thinking, changing your perspective, changing your attitude, changing your lifestyle.

You could..

1) Stop putting her in the "potential wife/potential mother" category. When these thoughts enter your mind, quickly discard them.

2) Focus on her flaws. Don't highlight her strengths, highlight her weaknesses.

3) Help her to remain sexy to you. Dress her the way you want, role play with her, make her too kinky things so you realize that she is not an angel.

4) Sexualize her more and romanticize her less.

5) Realize that you don't want a wife and thus realize that this girl is not a good long term match for you.

6) Realize that you do want a family and embrace the girl. Even its the attraction is less sexual them most of your regular bangs.

(07-05-2013 12:58 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  do you just have to cheat?

Look at the great men throughout history. The leaders of nations, the leaders of cultures, the leaders of movements, the leades of business. Most of them cheated. They took a wife but they also took mistresses.

I think most of us need that variety. Monogamy is a social construct, I believe. Very few guys can do it happily and successfully.

A wife + mistresses is the old school way.

(07-05-2013 12:58 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  Is that the only option?

No.

You could also choose monogamy.

Or, polygamy. Or, an open relationship?

She probably wouldn't like those last 2 options..

I say, if she makes you happy, be with her, just be realistic about the whole thing. You know you will want some new p*ussy after a while.

Enjoy your relationship, while it lasts.

Try not to break your heart or hers.

If you want a family, have a family. You can always take a "swoop vacation" if you need it.

Love is a beautiful thing. Enjoy it. Just be realistic.

Post: #14

(07-05-2013 02:54 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  It is heavy, because it uproots everything you "think" you are about.

It is like you don't even know who you are or what you want in life.

I really don't like it.

Have faith in the force.

Go for a swim in the ocean maybe..? Get into nature as that will help clear your mind.

I have been waiting for you to come to this stage in your journey. It's always interesting to see the stages that a bachelor goes through. I know this could be me eventually. Thats why I'm trying to learn from your experience.

The modern bachelor lifestyle is fascinating.

I have no regrets about choosing this path.

(07-05-2013 04:14 PM)Vaquero Wrote:  dudes should consider going paleo in, their dating/sex lives. By going paleo I mean to trust your gut and primal instincts more and stop trying to mentally project 1,2... 200 hundred steps down the road

Great concept! I love that.

Post: #15

It's the Madonna-Whore complex. You've been banging whores for so long that you can't possibly go back to "nice girls".

Post: #16

G. Girls just aren't that interesting as a test group. And half the ones that "seem" interesting turn out to be procrastinators or spinsters. Lack of interestingness leads to loss of sexual attraction I would say.

That leaves 1 thing... what interests you in them. sex. If a girl is interesting to have sex with, like does new things with confidence, to me that's what keeps sexual attraction, and makes them interesting. Can lead them to water but can't make them drink.. sort of.

I was in a supervisory position a few years back and the way I kept the crew engaged was to get them intellectually curious in the process of our work, thus having an emotional attachment to it. I think trying the same with broads can extract latent value and extend their value at least a little bit longer.

Post: #17

"I lose interest in a girl once i have slept with her"

'lifes about, shooting your load"

Post: #18

I agree with other posters, it's definitely the Madonna/Whore complex.

We are not so different from women, it seems. The "good" girl is tbe beta girl and as much as we appreciate her nurturing qualities, most players will pant after the "hot" alpha girl.

My father had an acquaintance who has a renowned player and the man finished up his days alone in a senior's center. He probably should have focused on building wealth, while chasing women on the side, as that would have served him better, but he was a pussy hound through and through. My folks still visit him on occasion.
Better to be married or at least have companionship during your older years, and pop out a kid or two. To ensure best chances for kids, marriage and a stable family home are optimal. But to slake your player's thirst, ensure a side-piece or "business trips" abroad, as others mentioned. It was the forumala for success for alphas in the older generations.

In terms of the type of girl who can keep an alpha's interest, I observed playboy alphas who remain attracted to their girlfriends, and marry them, are attracted to girls who are true blue alphas or sigmas themselves.

In the one case that I am very familiar with, the woman kept a self-sufficiency about her in terms of selfishly remaining absorbed in her interests and in her life, and not losing herself in the alpha's life, an investment banker who had years of 8 and 9s throwing themselves at him.

She was a 7 at best and not immediately noticeable in a room but she embodied the old school word "alluring". She was not talkative but when she spoke, everyone paid attention. She has an "unknowable" quality about her that frustrated the alpha but kept him around. I actually overheard him ask her "what are you thinking?" which I would bet a million dollars he never asked any other woman. EVER.

The way she walked and talked, the side-long glances, her manner of dress, her wide-ranging interests that she would only reveal in bits and pieces. I have met many smart women who could talk about complex subjects but she is the only one who could do it while maintaining tension. He had his harem when he met her but one by one he dropped them all.

He married her and they're still married, but I think it's that ability to keep a part of herself to herself that keeps him wanting, and trying, to fully possess her which keeps him interested and still into her.

I think in this age of "full-disclosure confessional Oprah style" talk, that ability to be a little "unknowable" is rare for women, unless she was raised somewhere else.

Post: #19

I am surprised to see this on the forum. Actually, I surprised to hear it from you. This is like subterranean stuff, although consistent with your, and Roosh's recent posts.

I dealt with this, personally, some time ago. In today's words, I was exhibiting male hypergamy. My time was spent lifting myself up through female relationships into realms unavailable, from a destiny standpoint, to me ever before. Read country clubs with the rich, famous and powerful, horse races in Dubai, private planes to join family parties, etc.

Don't misunderstand this. The girls for which I had this sort of relationship were great. And fun. I was good, and good for them, never left one in worse shape than before their encounter with me. The first clue was their hand-off of me to another one of their social group -- a sister, another girl, that had joined us on excursions, etc.

What I found was that I just was not interested in contributing any more of my value to their lives. Fundamentally, they had the "stuff", I had the "wits". Wits counted less than stuff in endgame -- an endgame that I really, really wanted. At that time.

I never read their programs to the end. None of these women said marry me or get lost. Not a single one of this group said "I want to have your baby". (For posters: If you haven't got that response yet, you are failing in alpha practice.) I took, very personally and quite hard, that my own purpose in their lives was to only serve as a benchmark for the next series of suitors within their class. In my final conclusion: They were just trolling the meat.

Post: #20

I think it's less philosophical than everyone is making it out to be.

This actually happened with me again recently, and I think we're just hard wired to want variety. Human males want to procreate as much as possible, and as such, we aren't content with banging the same girl over and over again without any variety mixed in. I've been through the following scenario a couple dozen times:

1. meet a girl who I get along with and don't mind spending time with who is hot, sweet, smart, funny, etc
2. have sex with that girl
3. completely lose interest immediately OR lose interest gradually over the course of 3-4 more dates
4. stop communicating with that girl
5. 3-6 months later: have a crazy urge to fuck that girl again and think that I should have locked it up before

So it's not that I'm no longer attracted to them, it's that I get sick of that flavor for the time being. G, I think your loss of attraction to this girl comes as a result of your brain telling you to keep moving. Once you start thinking about permanence, your natural instincts kick in and tell you to not stay stagnant.

The few girls I found worthy enough to date consistently/exclusively for more than 3 months have fallen into this pattern eventually, and I think the only way around it (the only way to settle down) is to fight it every day of your goddamn life. You have to appreciate the fact that while you're not excited to fuck this girl every day, she brings other things to the table that are worthwhile.

But I'm in the same boat as you, so I can't pretend like I have the answers. It's just something I've thought a lot about.

Post: #21

It doesn't really matter if it's "normal", as long as you're not doing anything illegal.

What matters is "are you getting what you want out of life?"

This is a deep question that probably needs to be addressed-- with considerable work done by you in the process-- preferably with the help of a professional of some type. Could be a shrink, a guru, a martial arts instructor, whoever you feel comfortable with.

My recommendation is an older, male Jungian analyst. They become a shrink, then spend another 5-8 years getting seriously deep training. These are the Mercedes/Old School Discipline class of therapists. In particular, Jungian analysts deal with these kind of midlife meaning issues.

Post: #22

(07-05-2013 12:58 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  Or if you do meet a girl like this to have kids with, do you just have to cheat?

Is that the only option?

Any thoughts/insights would be greatly appreciated.

This is the age old problem of men wanting to turn a whore into a housewife. You have to resolve it within yourself that no one woman can be all things to a man. Women need stability. Men need variety. That's why things like polygamy make so much sense to men. The Muslims do it. The Mormons do it. They take all the dirtiness and guilt out of it by actually marrying the women.

I asked my one friend why he married his wife. He's a good looking guy. He's been singing in lots of Spanish music bands for years. Salsa, Mariachi etc. And he's slept with much hotter women than his wife. They practically throw themselves at him. It's ridiculous.

So his answer was ....because he wanted kids and he knew if anything were to happen to him the kids would be taken care of. If he married the hotter sluttier girl it would be a slim chance of the kids being ok if something happened to him.

No I can see his logic and that's all well and good. But I gotta tell you ...he travels a lot for business. Maybe 4-6 times a month. All over the US. Sometimes to Korea as well. And he tells me stories of different girls he bangs on the road.

So I think the answer to your question is ...Yes you cheat. You keep the good girl at home to run the house and take care of the family. But you fulfill all your male carnal desires as much as you can or as much as you need to. You have to learn to silence your conscience and more importantly ...These two worlds must never meet.

Post: #23

didn't roosh write an article about it. in order to become faithful and invested to one girl you have to kill all your alpha/player beliefs are replace them with beta,

Post: #24

(07-05-2013 03:25 PM)Menace Wrote:  We say that banging lots of guys ruins girls, but why isn't the same true of guys? It may take many more, but over time, can't the constant turnover of women corrode us on the inside? Marriage, family, children, these are all very mundane in a real sense...the antithesis of the lifestyle.

This is very true if we're honest with ourselves. When you think about it, there's a reason traditional societies want people to be virgins when they marry and promiscuity is discouraged. If practiced on a wide scale it has a degenerative effect on the stability of society. Men that don't want to settle down and women riding the cock carousel until menopause. This only works if a relative few number of people do it. If it crosses a critical threshold you'll then have social collapse.

The truth is, the fewer sex partners men and women have, the more likely you are to have stable marriages.

Post: #25

(07-05-2013 12:58 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  You meet a great girl (good looking, sweet, good family, class, money, would be a great mother, the kind of girl you actually would marry etc) and after you date her a while you completely lose sexual attraction to her.
....
But once I put her in the "potential wife/potential mother of my children" role, I lose all sexual attraction to her.

Keep in mind, she is the same girl, didn't get fat, nothing like that. Hell, I like her even more than ever. But then I am not sexually attracted to her.

Is this normal?

Is there anyway around this?

Or if you do meet a girl like this to have kids with, do you just have to cheat?

Is that the only option?

Any thoughts/insights would be greatly appreciated.

When I started college, a friend of mine said, you show me a hot girl and I'll show you a guy who's tired of fucking her. Didn't believe him until I ended up with a girl for four years, and despite her attractiveness and youth, I wanted to bang other girls. I would bang her and imagine I was actually with other girls. After that, I told myself no more multi-year relationships until I want kids and need a wife. That led to a decade of countless swoops.

Everything gets old after a while. If you want kids, you will have to marry the right girl for that. The "family" unit will keep you together more than the raw sexual attraction. That's life. This is why I think marriages without a kids aren't really marriages. You can try to keep a mistress on the side. We should be expert with that by now. IF you decide you want kids, be extra careful. As a grown man you might understand your father screwing around with a mistress, but not when you are growing up.

When in doubt, I always tell myself, Be a man my father is proud to call a son. And then I act .