Post: #1

I know career choice and demographics affect your earning potential.

What should the average guy be making at each decade milestone in order to be considered successful? I'm talking minimum here.

I've heard people say its $1000 per year of age. I don't think that formula is realistic though.

Post: #2

Its going to vary widely by who you ask, mostly based off of how much money the person you're asking and how much their friends make.

I personally consider $100k+ the minimum for "successful". $300k+ I consider truely successful because its out of the salary range of almost all salaried non-commission jobs. That kinda money will usually be investment income or entrepreneural business.

Im skewed high though because I make good moolah myself. http://whatsmypercent.com/. My definition of minimally successful is only the top 4% in America.

Post: #3

Why do you care about being "considered successful"?

It's more manly to not give a fuck what other people "consider" about you, haha.

How about making the amount you need to meet your lifestyle, purchase and savings goals?

Post: #4

(06-17-2013 03:29 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  I know career choice and demographics affect your earning potential.

What should the average guy be making at each decade milestone in order to be considered successful? I'm talking minimum here.

I've heard people say its $1000 per year of age. I don't think that formula is realistic though.

I'd say 2000 USD per year if you live in a US Suburb.

So a dude making 40-50 straight outta college is doing aight.
60-70 in is 30's.
80-100 in his 40's
100-120 in his 50's-60's (adjust for inflation)

That's solid middle class money in most places in America, top 10% in some places, low end in NYC/LA.

I wanna say most middle class folks tap out way before they hit 6 figures though. Throw in the modern middle class lifestyle, and they're gonna be in trouble when retirement comes around. I'm sure there are stats out there.

As our economy changes and shareholders and corporate managers focus on the short term - that modest goal of 2K per year of age, with health and retirement benefits, and job security is increasingly out of reach of the majority of the majority of college educated people.

Most blue collar employee jobs don't pay well, unless they're in resource extraction - and that is prone to boom and bust. White collar jobs are increasingly automated if not offshored or contracted out.

To really be in a secure position, you will have to be able to start and run your own business - which means discovering customers and their needs and delivering. Much easier said than done, but it seems that it's more and more necessary.

WIA

Post: #5

It all depends on where you live and what your lifestyle demands.

With my current expenses and lifestyle, my absolute bare minimum would be $50,000. That's very few meals out, watching my drinking/partying, and watching my finances like a hawk. For me to live comfortably, doing whatever the fuck I want, when I want, taking 1-2 trips per year, and managing to stash away at the same time, takes about 90-100K, which is what I make.

Post: #6

Numbers don't matter. You should come up with a life theme, your life theme should be this.

The least amount of money I can spend to be 100% happy. After that your goal is increasing your wealth by not wasting time.

If you live by those two principles alone, you will naturally find ways to save money that don't make you less happy and you will also make more money because you won't use your time frivolously.

Once your time becomes more valuable the people you hang out with changes and your social circle improves rapidly. Basically, your time should be expensive and your tastes inexpensive.

One of the major lessons in 2013 for me on a personal basis is to never hang out with someone for free if they are not adding value to my life in any way. If they are I will pay to keep them around if they are not I will simply resort to the slow fadeaway.

So in short, don't worry about salary or wages, think about how to add value to a person's life and extract value from that service. Finally, cater and hang around rich people.

Post: #7

(06-17-2013 03:29 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  I've heard people say its $1000 per year of age.

I read that, too. In a book published in the mid-seventies. Do the math to bring it forward 35-40 years.

Post: #8

An acceptable salary is whatever you tell yourself is acceptable. You only make as much money as you believe you deserve to make.

Post: #9

(06-17-2013 09:52 PM)Openbar Wrote:  

(06-17-2013 03:29 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  I've heard people say its $1000 per year of age.

I read that, too. In a book published in the mid-seventies. Do the math to bring it forward 35-40 years.

If you take 1975 as the year that figure was suggested than the current number would be $4200/year.

Post: #10

A lot of esoteric bullshit here. Give the man some numbers. Id say 100 a year to your late 40s is or 50s is doing well. Then sell the house when you retire and move somewhere cheap to live comfortably. Have a side hustle, always. Something small that could rake in a few extra g's a year that go directly into your retirement plan that you dont touch. You could always grow it and make substantially more as your time frees up, but avoid investing too much savings into it.

Its really about how much you save. There are esl jobs abroad that offer free accomodation and you end up saving 10-15 grand a year and those are entry level jobs. A girl i know who has a very well paying stressful financial job and lives in the city saves about half of that and she doesnt even live a lavish lifestyle.

Post: #11

I'm going for 50k this year and I'm 22.

I'm a long way off but there's still 6 months left to go.

Post: #12

It's pretty meaningless to give any single standard for all men. Guess what? Probably over half of men in Western countries aren't even smart enough to make even close to six figures. Should they shoot themselves?

I'd guess that the figures being thrown around here are reasonable for the high IQ members of this forum. But we got to remember how unrepresentative guys here are.

The more relevant metric is your savings rate. Even guys of average intelligence can save more, even if their income is mediocre. I'll put aside the ignoramuses of the world, who don't have the future time orientations to save. I'd ask: what is an acceptable savings rate at each decade milestone?

Post: #13

Generally people just don't get it, running a $ number means you already don't think like a rich person. You think in terms of exponents, growth rates and leverage to become rich.

People think about goals and landmarks, they should think in terms of responsibility, risk and ownership.

People can call my advice bullshit but it's not and this will always separate the rich from the middle class. The jump is thought process is next to Impossible to do or convince someone of, so your turnover of contacts is quite high.

The best thread on here is Hooligan Harry's response to "21 ways rich people think differently". Reading his post alone changed entirely the way I think about money. I would pay $500 for an hour of his time and that is yet another validation of the thought process of rich people, if you got information the cash is going to flow. Fuck $ numbers, that's for average thinking. Don't think anyone on here is striving to be average.

Post: #14

After housing expense, food, utilities, gym,internet, insurance, car, all the essentials, i leave 200-400 for entertainment a month, depending on what time of year it is as a budget. I rarely drink when i go out and when i do i pregame at home and nurse a beer. I rarely eat out just because id rather make healthier meals at home and bring it to work or school. I end up having money left over so i put that into savings. I save a lot. Only big items are clothes sometimes, but i buy quality and dont have to worry about anything besides tshirts socks and underwear for years.

My place isn't particularly nice and my rent is very low. Sometimes i buy furniture (only stuff i can wash or that is made of wood, never sofas made of cloth or anything like that) and lights and shit from goodwill or craigslist. I dont have to, but i figure why buy new shit thats just gonna get broken in anyway when you could buy it for a quarter of the price on craigslist from people who are moving and cant take shit along? Sometimes you can get really expensive furniture for mad cheap. I have a minimalist nomadic mindset where one day i could just find a better job far away and i wouldnt feel bad about throwing shit away or selling it on craigslist for cheap.

I save about half my income a month. The biggest splurge is travel.

Also i get a certain type of girl here in the us. Ones that will split the bill. Or dont mind investing a lot of time, energy, or money into me. Im a stingy, lazy fuck when it comes to chicks. If she wants to go to some elaborate expensive show or event, i dont even have to ask her to pay. My genuine disinterest in going eventually forces her to pay for me. Ive had girls moms pay for my plane ticket for vacation so they can meet me. When it comes to my boys, most are like me and dont spend that much going out and are smart with their money so youll never see me on some booze cruise in the bahamas or out to vegas or nyc spending all that shit on bottles. Id rather go abroad for a week or two and spend half of what people in vegas do on a weekend.

Post: #15

I bargained with life for a penny, And life would pay no more.
However I begged in the evening, when I counted my scanty score
For life is a just employer, he gives you what you ask.
But once you have set the wages, why, you must bear the task.
I worked for a menial hire, only to learn dismayed -
That any wage I had asked of life, life would have willingly paid.

Post: #16

It depends on so many factors.

Where you live is one of them. Last year when I was 23, I got a job paying close to £35k, in London. My friend who lives in a much smaller city is earning around £22k as a tax accountant working for PwC with a degree in economics. I'm doing graphic design and don't have a degree.

That said, I know some people who have graduated from university and live in London with degrees who earn less than me.

My whole life, I've always said I want to be earning at least £100k a year after tax before I can call myself successful. I want to do that by the time I'm 30, and hopefully it won't be working full time too if I get some things right.

Post: #17

(06-17-2013 11:00 PM)UgSlayer Wrote:  Its really about how much you save

Saving money is a middle class mindset. There is no point in saving money. You should always be reinvesting money. By reinvesting money into things such as business ventures and things that you can write off (e.g. a nice apartment), you'll pay less tax and live a nicer lifestyle.

It's really about developing skills that you can use to make money and knowing how to reinvest that money properly so it grows. Either become rich as fuck, or die trying and be in poverty. No middle ground.

Post: #18

(06-19-2013 09:50 PM)MattC Wrote:  It depends on so many factors.

Where you live is one of them. Last year when I was 23, I got a job paying close to £35k, in London. My friend who lives in a much smaller city is earning around £22k as a tax accountant working for PwC with a degree in economics. I'm doing graphic design and don't have a degree.

That said, I know some people who have graduated from university and live in London with degrees who earn less than me.

My whole life, I've always said I want to be earning at least £100k a year after tax before I can call myself successful. I want to do that by the time I'm 30, and hopefully it won't be working full time too if I get some things right.

i had no idea how little the english get paid until recently. £35k at 23 is pretty decent but the average 23yo gets a pittance.

Post: #19

I want a salary as low as possible and capital assets covered in layers of entities to make up the majority of my holdings. You can strive for the opposite if you like.

Post: #20

For me I try to make at least 5% more every year till the end of my life because 3% goes for inflation 2% goes to increase of your salary.

Post: #21

(06-20-2013 12:01 AM)Que enspastic Wrote:  

(06-19-2013 09:50 PM)MattC Wrote:  It depends on so many factors.

Where you live is one of them. Last year when I was 23, I got a job paying close to £35k, in London. My friend who lives in a much smaller city is earning around £22k as a tax accountant working for PwC with a degree in economics. I'm doing graphic design and don't have a degree.

That said, I know some people who have graduated from university and live in London with degrees who earn less than me.

My whole life, I've always said I want to be earning at least £100k a year after tax before I can call myself successful. I want to do that by the time I'm 30, and hopefully it won't be working full time too if I get some things right.

i had no idea how little the english get paid until recently. £35k at 23 is pretty decent but the average 23yo gets a pittance.

My friend who I said is on £22k is on around double the average salary where he lives. The average salary there is about 10-12k. Some parts of the country the average salary is around 8k.

It's all relative though. I earn more but I pay more in rent. Well, I'm sure he'd be paying the same as me if his millionaire parents and grandparents hadn't put a 90k deposit on his 3 bedroom house leaving him with a mortgage of only 30k. But yeah, my cost of living is probably more expensive, but not by too much.

I think he pays about £400 a month on his mortgage, obviously he's had massive help from his parents and grandparents, otherwise it would be more. The "average" person living like me, in a 2 bed apartment in that city would probably be spending about £250-300 a month on rent. I'm paying £750.

Post: #22

I agree with travolta.

I spend no time talking about business or money with people who run dollar savings number or how many $$$ is good/bad. It misses the point entirely and it is not a knock on people who think this way because i used to do the same thing.

You absolutely must change your mind from thinking on a linear $/hr or $/yr basis to eventually make money before you are dead. No point in saving $20K a year in a bank account earning 1% interest because by the time you are relaxing you are old and grey.

You want to make bigger moves. Where is the best opportunity, why? Can I leverage into this opportunity? How.

People don't understand leverage, you take on leverage when you can afford all the capital you used to make leverage. Then you don't care if the idea tanks because you are net zero. Big deal if the other side of the coin was a 700% return profile. You make that trade evey day on a coin flip.

All that said you don't want to bet more than you can afford to lose but the rest is gravy, this is why I also espouse a minimalist lifestyle.

If you can live on $1k a month (I cannot) but if you could that means every single penny above 5 figures can be at risk. This means, by default, you have more opportunities because more can be risked. Having cash allows you to take a risk. If you don't take a risk. You will never make it before you are old.

Find opportunities with leverage, move all in with what you can lose.

Cash = bullets; your mind = sniper rifle. If you have the money and a sharp brain you just need a couple shots and you're done.

Post: #23

(06-20-2013 08:44 AM)MattC Wrote:  

(06-20-2013 12:01 AM)Que enspastic Wrote:  

(06-19-2013 09:50 PM)MattC Wrote:  It depends on so many factors.

Where you live is one of them. Last year when I was 23, I got a job paying close to £35k, in London. My friend who lives in a much smaller city is earning around £22k as a tax accountant working for PwC with a degree in economics. I'm doing graphic design and don't have a degree.

That said, I know some people who have graduated from university and live in London with degrees who earn less than me.

My whole life, I've always said I want to be earning at least £100k a year after tax before I can call myself successful. I want to do that by the time I'm 30, and hopefully it won't be working full time too if I get some things right.

i had no idea how little the english get paid until recently. £35k at 23 is pretty decent but the average 23yo gets a pittance.

My friend who I said is on £22k is on around double the average salary where he lives. The average salary there is about 10-12k. Some parts of the country the average salary is around 8k.

It's all relative though. I earn more but I pay more in rent. Well, I'm sure he'd be paying the same as me if his millionaire parents and grandparents hadn't put a 90k deposit on his 3 bedroom house leaving him with a mortgage of only 30k. But yeah, my cost of living is probably more expensive, but not by too much.

I think he pays about £400 a month on his mortgage, obviously he's had massive help from his parents and grandparents, otherwise it would be more. The "average" person living like me, in a 2 bed apartment in that city would probably be spending about £250-300 a month on rent. I'm paying £750.

ok this is all very helpful. i'm coming from australia, been offered £25k as a grad salary, living in london. my friends here think it must be a part-time job at that rate.

median grad salary in oz translates to £30.5k but makes more sense long term starting in london, better prospects, and i have vision. short term pain, long term gain.

just a bit startled because cost of living in london is higher: pay 20% less, rent 27% more, transport 35% more (from basic research). i pay the equivalent of £315 per month in rent a short walk from CBD centre (5 person sharehouse). will most likely have to live far away from london city centre.

you say people get by on £8-12k? is that really a 'salary' for a full-time job?

Post: #24

Not in London, absolutely not. In other parts of the country yeah, London is a different way of life. 8k in London would be waitress salaries. In some parts of the country, you'll have 40 year olds battling for a 20k job acting as if its a 100k salary job, they really have no concept of things.

25k can get you by if you're here for a year for example, after that you'd want more. There's lots of flat shares around the city where you pay around 400-500 a month. That's another thing I don't understand, some people in their 40s and 50s happy to live their lives sharing with people 20/30 years younger than them. If I was at the point when I'm 50 I'd give it all up.

Post: #25

Bumping this thread. I'm constantly asking myself this question since I live in major American city.