Post: #1

I finally got around to publishing my first novel on Kindle (still waiting to finish review). If you're interested and aren't completely new on here, I could use some honest reviews, so drop me a pm and I'll give you a heads up when I do my free days. I don't want to link directly in the public space here as it's associated with the name I use for business.

Cheers!

EDIT: By the way, is anyone else publishing fiction on here?

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #2

I actually have two different manuscripts - both involving law school. One is about a man falls for a felllow classmate who is a narcissist, the other about some late 20's player who goes to law school - only have 20 some odd pages on that as I was really just developing a character.

Post: #3

(06-16-2013 04:21 PM)2Wycked Wrote:  I actually have two different manuscripts - both involving law school. One is about a man falls for a felllow classmate who is a narcissist, the other about some late 20's player who goes to law school - only have 20 some odd pages on that as I was really just developing a character.

Have you thought of self-publishing?

Here are two solid threads (on other forums) that I've been absorbed in about people making very good incomes by churning out a bunch of novels. Has really lit a fire under my ass as I've waited too long.

http://www.thefastlaneforum.com/inventin...ccess.html

http://www.reddit.com/r/writing/comments...irst_time/

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #4

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/04/hugh_how...r_writers/

Post: #5

(06-16-2013 05:07 PM)germanico Wrote:  http://www.salon.com/2013/04/04/hugh_how...r_writers/

Thanks for that. I actually was reading the thread he mentions in that article the other day. Good shit.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #6

Awesome job bb.

This has motivated me further to dry out and get productive.

Post: #7

JA Konrath has a brilliant blog (which he turned into a cheap ebook) about how to make living from ebooks. In his case it is genre fcition.

http://jakonrath.blogspot.co.uk/

I would like to help review the book. But I can't since I am literally incapable of reading ficition. I read dozens of non-fiction books a year. But no fiction.

Post: #8

(06-16-2013 05:36 PM)cardguy Wrote:  JA Konrath has a brilliant blog (which he turned into a cheap ebook) about how to make living from ebooks. In his case it is genre fcition.

Read a lot of the ebook-version yesterday. Some great stuff in there.

Quote:I would like to help review the book. But I can't since I am literally incapable of reading ficition. I read dozens of non-fiction books a year. But no fiction.

Yeah, I understand. Some people just can't rationalize the expenditure of time, and I can appreciate that. It's one of those things that you either like or you don't.

I have a few ideas for non-fiction books I'd like to write, maybe underneath another pen name. Some even slightly manosphere-related. So maybe next time.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #9

JA Konrath is giving away the ebook (mentioned above) for free.

Just go to this link and click on the graphic of the book:

http://www.jakonrath.com/writers.htm

It is an excellent read. He gives you all the inside information - along with the actual amounts he makes from his ebooks.

Post: #10

Hey painter knows a lot about this stuff too.

Post: #11

PM Sent!

Post: #12

Would love to hear from painter on this. He is one of my favourite posters. Super smart guy.

After clicking on some of the links above - I stumbled across this one. It is a pesimistic take on self-publishing. I am only half way through - but it looks interesting.

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/02/im_a_sel...g_failure/

Post: #13

Here is another critical look at self-publishing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/may...r-earnings

I don't want to discourage anyone. I just find it interesting digging deep into these subjects.

Post: #14

(06-16-2013 06:00 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Here is another critical look at self-publishing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/may...r-earnings

I don't want to discourage anyone. I just find it interesting digging deep into these subjects.

Thanks for the links, and I'm sure they'll be interesting to anyone just now considering something like this.

As for me, I'm far more worried about focusing on what does work than what doesn't. Making it in this business is a grind no matter what you do, and grinding away at anything, whether it's launching a tech startup or trying to succeed as a self-pubber, takes more optimism (preferably of unrealistic levels) than pessimism. In the end, the best thing is knowing how to market yourself, and I've been involved in online marketing for over six years now.

I accept that success is far from a given in any endeavor and certainly am not expecting this one book to change my financial situation. If anything, I'm just glad to have it finished and up there so I can start working on the next five and building a marketing funnel that leads back to whichever one shows the most commercial promise.

Onward.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #15

The media is dumb these days. It is getting easier and easier to create a shitstorm that people write about.

I first realised this when reading this book by the guy who did PR for American Apparel and Tucker Max:

http://www.ryanholiday.net/welcome-to-tr...nipulator/

If I was writing a book I would follow the examples given in the Ryan Holiday book above.

Come up with some silly story to do with your book. And then get some small site - or small local newspaper to write about it.

Once you have a small fish biting on your bait. You forward the story to a slightly bigger newspaper - pretending to be a reader who is wondering why the newspaper isn't covering this.

Rinse and repeat.

Eventually - you will have the big papers/magazines/sites covering the story that started out as a stunt to get in the local press.

You just keep playing the story up the media chain. Moving up to bigger and bigger media platforms.

I could think of some examples of this - but in fact a link I was going to pass along gives a perfect example of this anyway:

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/15/hey_amaz..._my_money/

This guy ended up with a best seller on Amazon. And all because the cover of his book was a rip off of the design of a Jack Daniels bottle. Which resulted in Jack Daniels sending him an incredibly polite 'cease and desist' order.

The fact that the letter was so polite (despite it being from corporate lawyers) made the situation novel enough to get other sites/newspapers to write about it. Since it was unusual to see such politeness in the type of letter which is usually quite threatening.

As such - the story went 'viral' for a few days - before the media moved on to the next 'viral' story. The thing is that there are hundreds of 'viral' stories each year - providing exposure to alot of things which would otherwise be overlooked. And in alot of cases those 'viral' stories are carefully prepared by the people involved.

Most of the stories in the Daily Mail seem to fit this bill. And to give an example from the Ryan Holiday book above. When marketing the Max Tucker books - he defaced a billboard hoarding advertising the book. He did it himself - and spray painted something like 'Tucker Max is a cheating bastard!' over the poster. This was particularly powerful since the Tucker Max book was a memoir of his drunken antics which often involved screwing lots of women.

He then forwarded the photo (pretending to be a member of the public) to a few sites/local newspapers.

And once the locals started to write about this funny story - the regional papers became interested. And within a few days - the national papers were writing about it.

It seems that the media are only prepared to talk about it - if those around them (or on the rung below them) are talking about it. Indeed - most journalists at the big papers only cover stories which catch their eyes from the local papers and from sites like Jezabel.com

As such - if I was writing a book - I would think about some creative ways to get the media interested in it. With the newspapers, blogs and websites looking for new content 24/7 - they will definitely run with whatever you give them. But only if it ticks the boxes of what they feel their readers might be interested in.

Hell - even '50 Shades Of Grey' benefited from this. A big part of its early success - was the fact that the book was filthy and written by a middle aged English housewife.

That disparity alone provided an angle for writers as they wondered if this revealed something, as yet unsuspected, about the average housewife.

Of course - it soon went through the stratosphere. But that was because everybody started buying and talking about the book - to see why everyone else was buying and talking about the book. That is the pinnacle of successful hype. But - you only get to that kind of level when your success starts to feed back on itself.

The internet is a powerful tool. And anyone can leverage it to create a bigger splash than you could ever imagine. You just have to give yourself permission to start thinking creatively (and a little cynically).

This is probably a silly example. But I was thinking about reading 'Enjoy The Decline' by Aaron Clarey. So - if I was looking for a way to market that book - I would say that any profit from the book will be donated to the US government in order to pay off the national debt.

It is the type of media fodder which would get gobbled up. And the publicity you get from such a stunt would be worth it as opposed to having a book sell in small numbers and be forgotten about.

To finish. Nicholson Baker is a great writer. But even he only became famous when it was reported that his novel 'Vox' had being given as a gift from Bill Clinton to Monica Lewinsky.

It is all about creating a wave of interest and surfing it to the shore. And I never realised this until reading the Ryan Holiday book mentioned above.

Indeed - if I was writing a book. These days I would figure out the marketing strategy first. And them makes sure the book I am going to write would work well for such a strategy. The importance of a good 'angle' is so important that it needs to become a part of your thinking when deciding what book to write in the first place.

Post: #16

Just to add to the above.

The recent shitstorm around 'Abercrombie & Fitch' not selling to fat people (even though most high end fashion brands do this) is very reminiscent of the stunts that Ryan Holiday talks about in his book. Indeed - I wouldn't be surprised if he is behind this latest controversy as well.

Post: #17

Some very cool things to think about, cardguy - thanks!

I think you're right about coming up with the marketing angle first. This book I just published was one I started when I was 17 years old and drug out again and again over the years only to throw it to the back burner and forget about it again.

As you can imagine, I matured a lot over those years, so every time I drug it out I essentially had to rewrite it again. lol

I'm a freelance writer who's always wanted to be an author, so leaving this work to collect dust has really felt like a failure on my part, especially with how crazy the self-publishing world has gotten recently. For one thing, I think Amazon will eventually raise the bar, and this is the time to start building a readership before that happens.

So, I decided earlier this week that I was going to get it out there no matter what so I could "pop my cherry." I needed some kind of closure and a sense of accomplishment so I would feel comfortable moving on to writing the next book, and with the next one, I'll be choosing my "niche" as precisely as possible.

Don't get me wrong though, I do think the one I've just published has some real potential. Several people have told me it was heavy enough to move them to tears, and at least one person, who is not one to flatter, said it was one of the best books he's ever read. If anything, I hope that the strong emotions associated with it will inspire people to share it with others.

But getting it up was more about moving past it than anything else. I love some of the ideas you've thrown down here and definitely will give them some more thought.

EDIT: Definitely going to read that book too - sounds intriguing.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #18

Yeah - Ryan Holiday became depressed at how gullible the media were and how easy they were to manipulate.

He is a smart guy - and it started to frighten him how moronic our culture is becoming. People would rather spend their time reading short viral/silly stories on blogs as opposed to something more worthwhile.

As such - he wrote the book as an expose of how easy it is, as well as an analysis of what it means for the future of our culture.

Post: #19

Thanks for all the PMs!

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #20

Is non-fiction (outside of game) worth writing about?

Post: #21

(06-16-2013 07:01 PM)cardguy Wrote:  This is probably a silly example. But I was thinking about reading 'Enjoy The Decline' by Aaron Clarey. So - if I was looking for a way to market that book - I would say that any profit from the book will be donated to the US government in order to pay off the national debt.

Good idea, but you could generate more controversy if you said a portion of profits would go towards buying Edward Snowden a private island to hide out on.

Post: #22

Actually on second thoughts. I think the most effective marketing stunts - are those that don't appear (on the surface) to be marketing stunts.

That way journalists can write about it as if they themselves have uncovered some unusual story behind a book. It is trickier coming up with such ideas - but it just takes a bit more creativity.

Remember - journalists are lazy, underpaid and have very little time to fill up their blogs and newspapers. Ideally they are looking to 'cut and paste' content straight into thei work. In the trade this is known as 'churnalism'.

Post: #23

If it has pictures and crayons fisto would be interested.

Post: #24

(06-16-2013 07:01 PM)cardguy Wrote:  ...

Hell - even '50 Shades Of Grey' benefited from this. A big part of its early success - was the fact that the book was filthy and written by a middle aged English housewife.

That disparity alone provided an angle for writers as they wondered if this revealed something, as yet unsuspected, about the average housewife.

...

Ha! As far as I'm concerned a middle aged English housewife is EXACTLY the kind of person who would write something like 50 Shades. And middle aged housewives probably make up the bulk of the buyers as well.

Not disagreeing with the gist of your post. And a lot of people WOULD see it as an anomaly. There must be lots of crafty ways to get publicity, and this is important if you want to be a best seller. I seem to remember Obama being asked something about 50 Shades during his re-election campaign. Obviously a question placed by the publisher, author or their publicists. Despite actually hating that kind of crude and artificial publicity, I have some reluctant respect for whoever got that question through.

Beyond Borders:
I have nothing but respect for people who undertake creative work like writing novels. Apart from anything else it must take a huge amount of guts to publish your first work of fiction. I'll send you a PM, but I am also interested in reading it when it comes out. Maybe a bit more about the genre and a bit of a synopsis would help people decide.

Post: #25

(06-17-2013 09:00 AM)cardguy Wrote:  Actually on second thoughts. I think the most effective marketing stunts - are those that don't appear (on the surface) to be marketing stunts.

That way journalists can write about it as if they themselves have uncovered some unusual story behind a book. It is trickier coming up with such ideas - but it just takes a bit more creativity.

Remember - journalists are lazy, underpaid and have very little time to fill up their blogs and newspapers. Ideally they are looking to 'cut and paste' content straight into thei work. In the trade this is known as 'churnalism'.

Journalists are lazy? In the twelve years I've been working as a photojournalist I've busted my ass to make any decent money. If I was lazy I made peanuts.

If you send me the first chapter BB, I'll give it a look. If it's good, I'll keep reading. But I'll be honest.

As far s the marketing - send me a PM with the chapter and I'll give you some pointers on how to market yourself and your book.