Post: #51

(06-10-2013 08:45 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  I'm interested in seeing if this pick of Hong Kong ends up being a wise choice for Snowden. The decision is either brilliant or very naive. I probably wouldn't have gone there. There aren't many, if any, nice places where an American can go if on the run from the government since most countries have extradition treaties with the US. Even for the ones that don't, like China, improving or maintaining good relations with the US government is often an important priority. In light of the Chinese Premier's visit to the US, I find it unlikely that China, which has de facto veto power over decisions in Hong Kong (a place that has an extradition treaty with the US), would stick its neck out for this guy, since improving relations is a key purpose of the trip.

Below is a map of countries that have extradition treaties with the US government (shown in blue). Even for the countries that don't have extradition treaties, many of them have good relations with the US government and strategic military, economic and political ties, and may choose to extradite an American citizen on the run; they often do.

Even though Switzerland will extradite citizens back to the US, it will not if they are wanted for a crime that that the US government is looking to enforce the death penalty. My friends mother blew up her mobster husband in a car bombing the the 90's and was wanted and they were aiming for the death penalty. She fled to Switzerland to avoid being extradited. Eventually the US said they would only put her in jail for life and drop the death penalty idea. She eventually fled Switzerland and was caught in Vienna. Pretty crazy stuff.

Post: #52

Scary. What are we supposed to do?

Post: #53

Off topic but his girlfriend is a smokeshow.







http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...roupe.html

Post: #54

^^^ Not bad at all for a nerdy-looking IT guy. Guess it helps to make $250k a year too.

Post: #55

Not surprising its the omegas (Manning - but could possibly be psychological issues) and alphas (Assange, Snowden) who go balls to the walls on these types of things. Those with nothing to lose (70 virgins in heaven anyone?), and those who simply cannot resist.

Edit: Now glancing over the article, please disregard previous theory.. maybe. This guy is fascinating, though. The presence of mind and balls to do what he did doesn't jive with past performance - probably why he got this far into the NSA?

Will be interesting to see if other things get uncovered.

Post: #56

(06-11-2013 01:10 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  ^^^ Not bad at all for a nerdy-looking IT guy. Guess it helps to make $250k a year too.

This guy is definitely different, NOT normal IT guy.

He enlisted in military, and immediately went for Special Forces.

Then he supposedly broke both his legs, and immediately was discharged, but then just happens to start working for the NSA.

I think he actually was recruited from the Special Forces track by the spooks.

When gubmint dudes were talking about disappearing him, and someone said spies don't talk like that, he said "I'm a spy and they do talk like that."

Also, as far as I know, 200K/yr is not normal pay unless you know something that is hard to get experience in. I don't think most gubmint IT con tractors make that much.

Does he even have a degree in Comp Sci? I imagine a lot of Stanford computer science grads would be glad to take a job for 200K to start.

Why in particular was he hired?

Post: #57

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/11/opinio...l?hp&_r=2&

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/co...l?mobify=0

Post: #58

This makes a lot more sense to me now. I know a few mathematicians and CS types who work for the alphabet soup agencies and they all make 80-120k year.

Post: #59

(06-10-2013 06:50 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Snowden is trying to save America and Jezebel worries about his girlfriend's feelings.

Maybe he had a pet cat, too? Let's all worry about the cat. I hope someone's feeding it.

Post: #60

Conspiracy theory time:
The guy is too perfect. They leaked the program on purpose to establish a 'new normal' and they're having an insider take the fall so the media attention gets drawn to him rather than what they're actually doing. Young, good looking, wealthy, hot girlfriend. You couldn't craft a better dude to play well in the media if you tried.

Post: #61

(06-11-2013 06:48 AM)Ensam Wrote:  Conspiracy theory time:
The guy is too perfect. They leaked the program on purpose to establish a 'new normal' and they're having an insider take the fall so the media attention gets drawn to him rather than what they're actually doing. Young, good looking, wealthy, hot girlfriend. You couldn't craft a better dude to play well in the media if you tried.

Could they be doing this to take the public eye away from something else, perhaps even more sinister, going on under the table? Mass paranoia is indeed a powerful tool. What would be the purpose in that case, do you think?

Post: #62

I hope more about these surveillance programs is exposed.

Glenn Greenwald, the reporter who broke the story, is saying he will continue to expose more info about this in the coming days and weeks.

Post: #63

I wouldn't be surprised if they were storing content in addition to meta-date. There's also most likely a fair bit of industrial espionage.

Post: #64

$175K-$200K is quite normal for NSA contractors with the "hot" skillsets and 15+ years experience. NSA is trying to reduce contractors rates though. If it gets too low, I will go back to private sector. I only put up with the background checks, every-5-year polygraphs, and "asking can I leave the country" ONLY for the extra money.

Post: #65

The NSA's forte has been code breaking. The reason they can make use of all of this collected data is because they can routinely break any published encryption code, and don't allow unbreakable codes to be published. It is hard to believe that countries like Russia, China, and Iran, wouldn't have the mathematical talent to have already figured this out. How about some young mathematical wiz getting on this and publishing the unbreakable codes so the average American can also have privacy? As for terrorism, they don't need to invade everyone's privacy to fight terrorism. Look at drugs, for example. Billion of dollars of drug money are laundered every day because the big banks know about it and are actively involved. The only reason things like terrorism and the drug trade exist is because people in power want it to exist. They also want terrorism - it's a convenient excuse to take away the freedoms of an apathetic population.

Post: #66

(06-11-2013 04:22 AM)Eirykr Wrote:  



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/11/opinio...l?hp&_r=2&

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/co...l?mobify=0

How much of this has to do with people not wanting to believe Obama and the Democrats, like any other administration, are pro-surveilance and don't give two shits about civil liberties? My idiot friend, whose a conspiracy guy but still blue pill about politics says dumb, hypocritical things like "Those drones are scary; what happens if the Republicans get back in power and use them!", failing to realize both political parties disrespect civil liberties and are warmongers.

Post: #67

Your blue-pill friend is woefully unaware that the Obama administration has ordered more assassinations than any other presidential administration in US history, using drone strikes. Frankly, the Obama administration scares me.

Post: #68

Who are the independants? They sure as hell ain't libertarians. Republicans that wanna sound cooler? Democrats who wanna sound saner?

Post: #69

(06-11-2013 10:45 AM)Exactaking Wrote:  


Who are the independants? They sure as hell ain't libertarians. Republicans that wanna sound cooler? Democrats who wanna sound saner?

It's embarrassing to me how easily manipulated people are by the two-party system. Republican support for NSA surveillance drops by 23 percent and Democratic support rockets up by 27%. What a joke.

Although, the Republican decline in support at least possesses the logic that more time has passed since 9/11 and Osama bin Laden has already been killed.

As for independents, political scientists have shown that they're generally less well informed than partisan people on either side. Where are the libertarians? They only make up a small percentage of the population. Polls from Gallup, Pew, and other polling agencies show that at most around 13% of the U.S. population leans libertarian.

Post: #70

(06-11-2013 07:10 AM)Architekt Wrote:  Conspiracy theory time:
The guy is too perfect.

Never met a conspiracy theory I didn't like. I am coining a term for why you have an intuitive mistrust of the surface facts: Impedance Mismatch Indicator (IMI).

All politicians set up oversimplified, appeal-to-lower-emotions, straw man/scapegoat story lines/narratives to distract from the most important battle: the powerful ( who are trying to stay in place and control most media) and the powerless ( the suckers who do the shit work.) Currently the phony dichotomy is Left-Right; Librul/Conservative. In the past, say, in Stalinist Russia, it was counter-revolutionary vs good party member.

The labels are meaningless. The underlying variable is always power. By definition, power is why you hear the messages you do, power controls what gets said and most importantly what does NOT get said.

What makes Snowden case very interesting is there appear to be some impedance mismatches, if you will, between the surface story and the real story.
For instance the very, very high salary despite the lack of superficial elite background. Something about the story simply seems odd.

Also, the Verizon revelelations and the Snowden defection/whistleblowing were timed and orchestrated perfectly so that as soon as the Verizon fluff started to die out, Snowden was put front and center. With the ADD culture, it's necessary to have a trope in full view for an extended amount of time for it to take hold ( here the trope is dem administration as totalitarian.) Similarly, the prolonged carping about the poor murdered diplomats in Benghazi has gone on far longer than it merited.

My speculation is IMIs may show turbulence in the power balance, perhaps a strong move by one faction against another that involves taking risks-- because inaction would be even riskier.

My guess right now is this is a repub move to recast dems as the totalitarian party because increasing Hispanic and young (HY) bias against repubs (see below) necessitates strong action to smear the dems. Hispanics making under 50k voted 80%+ for Obama over Romney. (cited below) Obviously, the HY population is going to get more powerful-- hispanics have more kids and young people will move to higher positions, because even Dick Cheney has to die eventually. hopefully without drunkenly shooting any other of his friends, or getting any more than the two DUIs he already had when taking office as VP. ( To be fair, if you think Teddy Kennedy was sober at Chappaquidick I have a fund-rasing number I can give you.)

Cheney is/was a major drunk:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_..._agent.htm

The Republicans HY Problem:
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/all-in-/52089142#52089142
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-5758...anic-vote/

All their kids, dems and repubs, go to the same elite private schools from which future top leaders are chosen-- the schools are the ones to which you and your kids don't go. (Unless you are Athlone the Outlier or some other shadow elite dude here)

However, right now Repubs are suffering from clear identification as the rich, white people's party. That actually is natural base ( and, coincidentally, their source of funding), as well as the strivers who imagine they will join that demographic, so they can't effectively change that. They can move left on immigration which is one reason BHO killed Romney in 2012, but their overall tone and the tense white guys who seem to control the party make it really hard to change their image. So what can they do? Smear the other guys.

But there has to be some serious smear work on the current administration in order for repubs to win in 2016.

This could be part of that. If I was a repub strategist, I woudl try to "flip the script" and ID the dems as the totilitarian party, recording your every phone call etc.

All of this has only tangential relationship to the truth, all these guys are digging like crazy to monitor us more and more, it's a turf issue.

Which bureaucrats are going to have the most power? The ones with the most info on the population. It's their jobs and status they care about, not the people.

Read "Rise of the Vulcans" about the rush to war in the Bush admin, and "Inside the Third Reich" by Albert Speer, about the top Nazi brass.

All those motherfuckers at the top talk about is their careers and positioning, they are in another world of total power and vanity is the driving force. I'm not saying it's all repubs, I'm sure there's a similar book about such machinations about the dems too.

All power seeks to maintain itself above all. the ideological labels on it are absolutely meaningless compared to the deep, inexorable pull of human vanity.

EDIT: They say he was making 122K. It's still more fun to look for conspiracy theories!

Post: #71

Great song, good dancing...





^ That's Snoden's girl

Post: #72

Official Statement from Booz Allen, Snoden's employer...

Quote:Booz Allen can confirm that Edward Snowden, 29, was an employee of our firm for less than 3 months, assigned to a team in Hawaii. Snowden, who had a salary at the rate of $122,000, was terminated June 10, 2013 for violations of the firm’s code of ethics and firm policy. News reports that this individual has claimed to have leaked classified information are shocking, and if accurate, this action represents a grave violation of the code of conduct and core values of our firm. We will work closely with our clients and authorities in their investigation of this matter.

Sorry guys, he was "only" making $122K. I wonder how he got his money out of the USA? That's probably why he went to Hong Kong first.

Post: #73

(06-11-2013 11:25 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Great song, good dancing...

..video of smoking chick...

^ That's Snoden's girl

THAT perfect little fucking machine is his GF?

Yeah he's an ordinary programmer who doesn't have privileged connections, I'm sure.

Welcome to the 2016 election campaign.

Post: #74

He was officially fired today. lol

Post: #75

(06-11-2013 11:58 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Official Statement from Booz Allen, Snoden's employer...

Quote:Booz Allen can confirm that Edward Snowden, 29, was an employee of our firm for less than 3 months, assigned to a team in Hawaii. Snowden, who had a salary at the rate of $122,000, was terminated June 10, 2013 for violations of the firm’s code of ethics and firm policy. News reports that this individual has claimed to have leaked classified information are shocking, and if accurate, this action represents a grave violation of the code of conduct and core values of our firm. We will work closely with our clients and authorities in their investigation of this matter.

Sorry guys, he was "only" making $122K. I wonder how he got his money out of the USA? That's probably why he went to Hong Kong first.

Throw one of these on your wrist and you're good (~$550k). Resale in HK wouldn't take 10 minutes.