Post: #1

US 'orders Verizon to disclose millions of phone records'

Quote:The order requires Verizon - one of the largest phone companies in the US - to disclose to the NSA the metadata of all calls it processes, both domestic and international.

Such metadata includes telephone numbers, calling card numbers, the serial numbers of phones used and the time and duration of calls. It does not include the content of a call or the callers' addresses or financial information.

The senior Obama administration official emphasised to the BBC that "on its face" the court order printed by the Guardian did not authorise US government agents to listen in on Americans' telephone conversations.

The order also contains a gagging order, requiring that "no person shall disclose to any other person that the FBI or NSA has sought or obtained tangible things under this Order".

The document "shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk - regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing," said the Guardian report's writer, Glenn Greenwald.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22793851

Post: #2

Just heard this on The Gary Null radio show.

Post: #3

Hope and change.

Post: #4

Can you hear me now? (AT&T yo!)

Post: #5

http://news.yahoo.com/heres-exactly-blam...54883.html

The National Security Agency and the FBI don't bear all the responsibility for the revelation that Verizon is turning phone records over to the government. That responsibility lies with the members of Congress who voted for the PATRIOT Act, as well as extensions of it and the provisions related to collecting those records. Over 100 people currently serving in the House and Senate voted for the original Act in 2001. Last year, over 300 voted to extend a key provision.

Post: #6

(06-06-2013 04:01 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  http://news.yahoo.com/heres-exactly-blam...54883.html

The National Security Agency and the FBI don't bear all the responsibility for the revelation that Verizon is turning phone records over to the government. That responsibility lies with the members of Congress who voted for the PATRIOT Act, as well as extensions of it and the provisions related to collecting those records. Over 100 people currently serving in the House and Senate voted for the original Act in 2001. Last year, over 300 voted to extend a key provision.

I'm memorizing all of those names.

Post: #7

Might as well just call Obama George Bush Part 2 On Steroids. Is there a word more powerful than incompetent hypocrite?

Oh, sorry, I forgot, the Executive Branch is just waaaaaaay too big for him to actually be held accountable for, he's only in charge of the speeches he gives.

This is what happens when you elect someone with no experience to be the chief executive. Obama couldn't run a lemonade stand without consultants and advisors. We're suffering now but there's going to be some really great books written about the complete incompetence of this administration.

Post: #8

Why are you blaming the politicians? It's the average voter's complete ignorance of everything that's the cause of all these infringements. Assuming you believe the elections aren't rigged.

"the greatest argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter"

Post: #9

(06-06-2013 04:50 PM)Norset Wrote:  Why are you blaming the politicians? It's the average voter's complete ignorance of everything that's the cause of all these infringements. Assuming you believe the elections aren't rigged.

"the greatest argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter"

I'd have to argue that with most people out there you'd be lucky to make it one minute. People prioritize other things in their lives that have no real bearing over who they put into office. It's a especially a big problem in the younger generation. Frank Lautenberg died the other day and I asked my little brother who was he. Didn't even have a remote clue.

Post: #10

^ Oh, ok, I guess it's my fault then.

Sorry guys...

http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/...s-20130606

Post: #11

People talk shit about the govt for whatever reason. Really just to vent. What can you do? Honestly what can YOU do? Answer is exactly what you are doing now.

I control what I can. My health, cashflow, and my mind. Becoming mobile, having different streams of income, having knowledge of cultures and languages, and staying out of debt are my goals right now. With that I would give a fuck how much of a police state America has/will become because I would be able to leave or enjoy my life dispite of it.

Politicans are a bunch of shitheads who follow money. If you were in that position you would probably do the same. Freshmen get in thinking they may be able to change their county/state. They can't do shit till they gave on a powerful committee. How many times and years does it take for you to bend over to get in a great committee? Politicans are pawns for corporations and interest groups my question is who would benefit from the Patriot Act?

Post: #12

This is one the reasons I run my smartphone at the minimum - no emails, no apps, no GPS, nothing besides text/call. Would have stayed with a basic phone but they look outdated.

They can still find out what they want, I'm sure.

We've been living in a matrix for awhile now.

Post: #13

If you told most people out there that this is in the name of security, they'll think it's just fine. Really scary stuff.

Post: #14

There were over 12,500 homicides last year in the U.S. Remember this is after the massive crime drop of the 1990's. Meanwhile, a relative handful of people died in terrorist attacks. For example, 3 people were killed at the Boston Marathon bombings.

Yet for some reason, the people killed by terrorism justifies the U.S. government collecting data on all our communications, phone, text, and email. But for "regular" homicides, which kill far more people - even in 2001 - the cops have to get search warrants before doing this kind of surveillance. Anyone who watches a procedural knows that a murder case would be thrown out for pulling off on one suspect what the NSA is doing to all Americans every single fucking day. But hey, if someone dies and some politician or bureaucrat calls it terrorism, they get to justify assuming all sorts of powers that people wouldn't tolerate in normal crime fighting.

Fuck that. Fuck the government for treating us not as citizens, but as mere subjects. And fuck the U.S. media for waiting for the British newspaper the Guardian to break this story, the lazy bastards.

Post: #15

This is actually just a result of multiculturalism.

Since America lets in Islamic people who later become US Citizens and terrorist threats, the law has to be changed to allow the government to monitor for these threats, such as the Boston Bombers, in order to protect US Citizens from terrorists.

Post: #16

The Patriot Act needs to be rewritten in a way that's less PC (i.e. specifically for monitoring islamic threats) and therefore not open for government exploitation. I'm sure Israel does a thorough job profiling and monitoring islamic threats, and they don't give a damn about being denounced for it. Most countries talk shit about America anyway, what do they have to lose from remaking the Patriot Act as the "Raghead Control Act".

Post: #17

(06-06-2013 04:50 PM)Norset Wrote:  Why are you blaming the politicians? It's the average voter's complete ignorance of everything that's the cause of all these infringements. Assuming you believe the elections aren't rigged.

"the greatest argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter"

I agree that voters are to blame. Voters today value image over integrity and keep voting in smarmy Ivy Leaguers instead of politicians who speak the truth. IMO this is where the influence of women comes in. Studies have shown they're more influenced by advertising than men so it stands to reason they'd be dazzled by campaign bullshit. Plus, it's always the men who are behind the "weird fringe" candidates who everyone later admits would have been better but only when it's years after the fact (hindsight is always 20/20).

No matter what side of the political spectrum you stand on, you have to admit that Americans have had the chance to bring fringe candidates into the mainstream that would have been a better bet than Obama or Bush. Even if you disagreed with those candidates.

On the left we had Dennis Kucinich. And the public said: "But he's too short and he looks weeeirddd!"

On the right we had Ron Paul. And the public said: "OMG! He looks like my grandpop!! Ewww! Old = creepy!!"

Pick your own "other" candidate who never got to the mainstream for whatever reason. Every election cycle, the media does a survey on "What candidate the public would most likely sit down and have a beer with." I think that pretty accurately represents how most people go about judging who to vote for.

Who cares about a little surveillance and invasion of privacy? I want a guy I can clap on the back at an imaginary cookout!

Post: #18

(06-06-2013 05:59 PM)Samseau Wrote:  This is actually just a result of multiculturalism.

Since America lets in Islamic people who later become US Citizens and terrorist threats, the law has to be changed to allow the government to monitor for these threats, such as the Boston Bombers, in order to protect US Citizens from terrorists.

I always use the analogy of locking up your house.

Say there are robbers in your neighborhood. Does it make sense to canvas the neighborhood and mad dog everyone who just might be a robber? To start mouthing off to some dude whose cousin might be a robber? Oh, and half your neighborhood hates your guts. But no, you're going to keep your door ajar and patrol the area like an asshole. No one would consider this reasonable. Yet it's our foreign policy.

Why not just lock up your own house, and be done with it?

Nope, can't do that. And there's probably 50% chance that we'll be too incompetent to use the intelligence we do gather, in time to prevent an attack.

Post: #19

I was initially a big supporter and defender of the president but at this point I have little will to defend him from attacks.

Post: #20

Yet another reason to go with a no contract, month to month phone service. No name or address attached to your number and half as much as the main companies.

Post: #21

Y'all surprised ? You don't remember there commercials with the mob following the guy around? I knew back then.

Post: #22

Deflecting blame from the federal government for this and blaming multiculturalism is a mistake. Remember, the same Senate committee members, federal bureaucrats, Washington policy wonks, and New York media execs pushing for a loose immigration policy, including the latest wave of so-called reform, are behind the creation of the modern Hobbesian surveillance state.

Actually, I'd argue that multiculturalism's greatest contribution to our current surveillance society is that it has reduced the trust citizens in a democracy should have in one another, and hence has made the no longer cohesive American people more susceptible to trading away basic civil liberties for the sake of preventing... what exactly? one or two incidents per year in which a handful of people are killed?

The blame here lies with the government and the elites. They opened the borders, they started the wars, and they opened the databases on our communications.

Post: #23

It's been this way for a while...for some reason it's more public now.

Post: #24

If it's not already the case, it soon will be that such info will be gathered even without the phone companies compliance, and globally.

I believe it is already the case, and that all info is recorded, including content of all calls and data communications. I suppose the reason there was this show of asking for the information that they already had was merely to be able to use the info in the courts.

Post: #25

(06-06-2013 10:19 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

(06-06-2013 04:50 PM)Norset Wrote:  Why are you blaming the politicians? It's the average voter's complete ignorance of everything that's the cause of all these infringements. Assuming you believe the elections aren't rigged.

"the greatest argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter"

I agree that voters are to blame. Voters today value image over integrity and keep voting in smarmy Ivy Leaguers instead of politicians who speak the truth. IMO this is where the influence of women comes in. Studies have shown they're more influenced by advertising than men so it stands to reason they'd be dazzled by campaign bullshit. Plus, it's always the men who are behind the "weird fringe" candidates who everyone later admits would have been better but only when it's years after the fact (hindsight is always 20/20).

While you are guys are, in a very solid sense, right, let's not forget that the dumbing down of Americans is a the result of an elaborate, concerted effort by very intelligent people who are quite adept at influencing the psychology and behavior of the masses.

This isn't fairy tale or paranoid delusion, and it isn't even all that concealed.

I think it's fine for people to get angry at the government, and quite necessary, because it'll take people getting mad to wake the fuck up. In fact, I'd much rather people get pissed off about the extent to which they are herded by those who profit from their ignorance than have them throw up their hands, giving up on their fellow man and the idea of freedom out of exasperation.

For those listening, "The Century of Self" is a great introduction to the why and how of manipulating the population.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling