Post: #1

alright, so I've been doing this for a little over a year, and I think that I need some outside perspective. I did 302 nightgame approaches, all solo, and 98 day game approaches on my campus. here were my results:

night game
approaches: 302
phone numbers: 20
phone numbers that responded: 10
kiss attempts: 10
successful makeouts: 7
girls dated: 2
notches: 1

day game
approaches: 98
phone numbers: 10
responses: didn't record, estimated about 5
girls dated: 1
notches: 0

I know that these results are pretty dismal. it took me over a year to do this many approaches, and there were actually quite a few others that I didn't count. I worked really hard, reading game resources, taking notes, recording what I did night after night, always trying to come up with new material and new ways to improve my results. I experimented with different looks, bought new clothes and developed a better style. I've worked out more and gotten in better shape...I have muscular arms, pecs, abs, low bodyfat percentage, all that stuff. I've read tons of books, not just about pickup, but other books like the ones roosh recommends every once in awhile. I've tried to absorb as much red pill wisdom as I can.

I have 17 new notches since I first read bang and started studying pickup which was about a year and a half ago. I've had about 10-15 new notches (not sure since I didn't record dates, just going off memory) in the last year since I started the roosh program, and started keeping records of my activities. I only got one new notch from cold approach, and that was like 10 months ago. she was extremely flakey...it actually took a month and a half after getting her number to get her to meet up with me, and only after I had basically dismissed her outright and told her off did she agree to finally meet. she was a decent lay, but not particularly attractive. I also dated one girl, for a total of seven dates, and she gave me zero orgasms, and shut down all my attempts to escalate. I would not have pursued so hard normally, my rule is she has to give me an orgasm by the third date to even consider keep dating her...but I wanted it bad, since she was cute and it would've been my second notch from bar/club cold approach. there was one girl I met at a club that I could have dated. when I first met her I made out with her a lot and tried to transition to her place for the SNL, but she wouldn't go for it. I got the number, and then she became a flakey and icy bitch. she'd only dated four guys in her life, and was in a physical therapy masters program, so you can imagine what her personality was like. she seemed to look down on almost everyone. she criticized my direct approach to dating, and my suggestion to get drinks, insisting that I take her out for an expensive dinner instead. I declined. I dated one girl from day game, for one "date" which was really just meeting up at school. I tried, but she was too flaky to set up a second date with. she was also a 19 year old virgin. she was black, but very cute for a black girl...but there is only so much flaking I can put up with, especially from someone who is probably not gonna put out at all.

my main question is, do you guys think there is a realistic chance that I will be able to do any better if I keep trying? it seems like I've heard a lot of people on here say that it takes about a year to start getting consistent results, but I've been doing it for over a year and the only consistent results I've been seeing are obnoxious and rude female behavior. it takes a considerable amount of time, energy, and money to go out and try to pick up girls, and I have very little of those three resources since I'm in pharmacy school and living mostly off student loans for now. on Friday nights, I'm usually ass tired, and don't really want to go to a club by myself, listen to loud, obnoxious music and people, pay exorbitant cover and drink prices, and keep getting blown out and rejected over and over. it's fun getting to make out with them or dance with them and grope them occasionally, but it seems like a waste of time if it isn't getting me notches, dates, new FWB's, etc.

right now I have the summer off, so I could approach more girls if I want and keep trying to improve my skills. or, I can focus on something new. I can learn new skills, and try to do things that will actually make me happy. then when school starts, I can focus harder on school. maybe I can try to make more money. I plan to get an otoplasty at some point in my life, either after I finish school or maybe before. I could probably get one this summer if I work hard enough. they only cost about $3600 and take a few weeks to fully recover from. I think I would have done better if my ears didn't stick out so much, I'd definitely be a lot more attractive. I could try to travel more, maybe do my first trip outside the country. I could learn some new skills, set up a mini-bar at my house and learn how to make drinks, get better at playing guitar and try to find a band to play in, or try to focus on having a better social life. I could take up new hobbies like swimming or rock climbing. there's a lot of things I wanna do. in three years I'll have my PharmD, I can start fresh in a new city with a six figure income and hopefully after paying off my loans I'd be able to scale back to part time and live a more fulfilling life. right now it's pretty grueling just trying to get through it all though, my finances are tight, and almost all my time and energy goes to just getting through the insane course load and keeping up with my classes. I only have two more months off of summer, then I start my P-2 year, which is considered by most to be the hardest year.

if I do decide to continue working on my game, I'll need to figure out what I am going to work on, how I am going to improve, and I will probably want some advice about that as well. I'm not really sure what to do, I feel like I've pretty much done everything I can at this point and am running out of ideas and answers, except just keep doing what I've been doing, which is clearly not working. what else should I do?

Post: #2

(05-30-2013 08:10 PM)DrZoidberg Wrote:  she was also a 19 year old virgin. she was black, but very cute for a black girl...but there is only so much flaking I can put up with, especially from someone who is probably not gonna put out at all.

Post: #3

What do you want to hear?

Cause it seems like you want us to tell you something?

WIA

Post: #4

(05-31-2013 01:45 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  What do you want to hear?

Cause it seems like you want us to tell you something?

WIA

I'm trying to decide if it would be a waste of time to keep doing this or not. I know a lot of people give up very early, like after doing a few approaches or maybe without doing a single approach even. but I've done over 400 approaches over the course of an entire year, I'm not sure how reasonable it would be to keep going and expect to do much better. is a year long enough to get an idea of what your long term potential is like, or does it take much longer? is it likely to get much better, based on your guys' experiences? sorry I know that was a long, rambling post...I'd be happy to be getting even 3-4 new notches a year from cold approach. I still do fairly well without it, I average about 10-15 new notches a year, but this is a skill I've always wanted to have...but I also want to be realistic if I'm really just wasting my time and it's just not going to happen for me.

Post: #5

How do you get the other notches?
Is it all social circle game? If so, lucky you!

Post: #6

Great summary and commendable effort. But what I don't understand is that you say you get 10-15 notches a year without any cold approaching. How? Is your social circle and status that enormous? If I was getting 10-15 notches a year without approaching, I would never do a single one!

That said, I do think those rates are quite poor overall. Not all of them, mind you. Your conversion rates from number to date are very impressive. The biggest gap appears in the approach / number ratio, floating around just 10%. I would consider that acceptable for online game, but for this... dunno, having 9 out of 10 approaches end up with nothing at all would demoralize me too much. I'm probably not the right person for comparison this model, given that my approaches have better success rates but there are far, far fewer of them (and I wouldn't know what to do with 15 new bangs a year as I prefer steady pussy).

Post: #7

(05-31-2013 03:26 AM)DrZoidberg Wrote:  if I'm really just wasting my time and it's just not going to happen for me.

If the question is should you continue cold approaching when it's not giving you the results you want, then the answer is simple

STOP COLD APPROACHING.

It's a waste of your time. Focus on having a good social life, and making warm approaches.

I'm not going to address the elephant in the room.

WIA

Post: #8

(05-30-2013 08:10 PM)DrZoidberg Wrote:  -snip-

I'm not really sure what to do, I feel like I've pretty much done everything I can at this point and am running out of ideas and answers, except just keep doing what I've been doing, which is clearly not working. what else should I do?

Have you read Roosh's book Bang? Or Day Bang? That should be a necessary first step.

Whether you understand it or not, you are getting better and more confident and more social every time you make approaches. Keep approaching any chick that will get your dick hard.

Just continue to be your best possible self, continue to improve yourself and keep approaching. Also, go to your school's gym and work out and improve yourself physically, that is a good idea to improve your outer game and appearance.

Also, you got one bang from your first year of being a pick up artist, and 10 phone numbers that is much better than 0 bangs and 0 phone numbers that you would have got otherwise.(I think that is the elephant WIA is referring to?)

As you become a better and more interesting person, and get better physically, you will just keep improving.

Post: #9

Wow...and i thought my 'conversion' rate was bad...

Post: #10

(05-31-2013 07:37 AM)The Great Basilisk Wrote:  Wow...and i thought my 'conversion' rate was bad...

Right, I was thinking a couple of things: either the OP needs to lower his standards or improve his game to get better results, probably both.

Post: #11

honestly, of my last 17 notches, most of them were from dating sites. there was one I met in a waiting room on campus, one I had already been friends with a long time, one I met at the club, and one I met in a class I was taking. before I started the pharmacy program, I was able to meet a lot of new people in classes. each semester I'd have anywhere from 4-6 classes, and each class would have anywhere from 50-200 people in it. I would always just approach and try to meet people that way, and between that and girls I met online, I was able to do fairly well for myself and get laid consistently. the problem is now I'm in a pharmacy program with the same 80 people for the next two years. most of the cute girls in that class are in long term relationships. I approached a bunch and even got a handful of numbers when I first started before I realized this. I also realized it would be awkward to try to game them, because there was one I had met at the interview before the program started that I fingered once and never dated again, and several that I tried to date unsuccessfully in the beginning. it made being in a class with them really awkward and uncomfortable, and I also wonder how that would affect my chances if one of the ones I wanted suddenly became single, what kind of reputation I might have.

that was one of the big reasons I started learning pick up, because I knew that the only way I was going to meet new girls would be to go out and cold approach them. I can meet girls with online dating, but to be honest I hate that shit. one of my goals was to get good enough at this that I'd never have to use online dating sites again. I'd much rather be able to go out and meet them in the real world, but I guess I just suck at it. there are several problems I keep running into pretty consistently.

the big problem at bars and clubs is getting blown out or cockblocked repeatedly. the cockblocking is especially bad here in town. it's a pretty typical college town where everyone knows everyone else. here when I approach, I am often able to get a reasonably good interaction going, compared to other places I go, but almost everytime the girl gets whisked away by one of her friends less than a minute in. even if she doesn't get whisked away, there are always obstacles to deal with, and it is extremely hard to isolate because even if you manage to pull the girl to a different spot, someone else will always butt in. it's a lot worse than regular bar/club game because she might know literally half the people in the bar, or maybe all of them, and any one of them might come in and cockblock at any time. aside from that, the quality of girls at the bars out here is much higher, but the bars are also a lot smaller and there is less turnover, so there are a lot less approach opportunities than if I go to the city. also since the girl's friends are always around, it's harder to escalate, because they don't want to look slutty in front of their friends.

when I go out in the city, it's hard to even find girls who are of acceptable quality. I often approach girls who are far below my normal standards because there are simply no other girls who are more attractive to approach, and I still get blown out. the girls I see out there are usually either large masculine looking black girls, which I am not attracted to, or single mothers in their 30's with stretch marks and shitty tattoos. sometimes there are girls who are closer to my age, but they are often overweight. the nights when there are a few attractive girls, they are often in a huge group of girls, the stereotypical ones you guys have probably seen a million times, where it is either a birthday or bachelorette party, and there is anywhere from 4-10 girls, sometimes even more. those big groups typically are out to receive a night of free drinks and validation. also most of the girls around are still unattractive, and there are a lot more guys than girls, so they get approached constantly. they develop a megabitch attitude, and when I do approach them, it is not uncommon for them to insult me outright before I even finish my opening line. even if I don't get blown out on the spot, I rarely get more than a few seconds in without being cockblocked. there are sometimes two-sets of attractive girls, and these seem like they'd be the most DTF. I do better with them usually than anyone else, but the problem is I can never isolate them, and I don't have a wingman to help out.

with day game, the main problem I always run into is they always have boyfriends. I did almost 100 approaches on campus over the last year, and almost all the attractive girls I approached had boyfriends. the few girls that I was doing okay with, they were pretty awkward. several of them later told me that they were virgins, and a couple of them were super religious and saving it for marriage. most of them were just super flakey, and I simply was never able to set up the date.

in any case, out of all the numbers I get, only about half respond, and most of those stop responding after only a few texts. I've also tried calling a few times, but I have never had a girl answer a phone call. I'm not sure if maybe that's something I should experiment with more or not, because I got used to texting for so many years and it was working so well, until I started doing cold approach. another thing I might be able to change is my venue selection, but a lot of the bars in the city are basically just like the ones here; little dive bars with low selection, low turnover, and everyone knows each other because they go to the same school. there is a neighboring town with some decent bars from what I've heard that I might check out. other than that I don't know what else to try. you guys are saying I am not getting enough numbers, so I guess I could try to close more. usually at the bar or club I either try to keep escalating and connecting, or I move on to a different set. I usually won't keep going, let alone go for the number, if the set seems indifferent to me and is not giving me a good interaction. I guess I could try to push through more, but I always thought it was better to try to find a girl who will at least make out, since they are probably more DTF. what are your guys' thoughts on that? as far as day game goes, unless the girl was just super bitchy and icy towards me I always tried to close, which is when they would usually say they had a boyfriend. I can't think of any other venue I could day game that would have better selection than my college campus.

I have read bang, and I have read most of day bang. I guess I could focus more on day game, but part of the problem with that is with school I'm always busy during the day. I literally may not have any free time until Friday evening or the weekend, some weeks, and even then it is limited.

also I just wanted to say, I appreciate all the responses so far.

Post: #12

I don't understand how 300 approaches only leads to 20 number, yet you somehow convince 15 girls from class to sleep with you. Just do whatever you are doing with the girls from class when you are out at night.

Post: #13

You are getting good results from social circle and online. Your results from cold approaching are not very good.

So, if you want sex, focus on social circle and online.

Cold approaching is a completely different animal, especially during the day.

I would look at cold approaching more as a fun, social hobby. You can't rely on it to get laid, you can only play around with it for experimental reasons.

Do it when you feel like doing it, but don't worry too much about it.

Day game, night game, social circle, online, etc. They are all potential sources of pussy. If you are getting results from 1 or 2 of these, stick with them. If you are curious about the other methods, practice them when you have time and inspiration.

Cold approaching is the hardest way to game, don't expect the same results that you would get from social circle or online. Cold approaching has a low success rate.

Just keep improving yourself in ALL areas. Cold approaching is only one way of doing this. There are many other ways.

I'm happy to answer any specific questions you have about cold approaching or day game..

Post: #14

Do what works, stop what does not. Sometimes guys can't bang random girls in bars. If you're banging girls from meeting them online, why stop?

Post: #15

Zoidberg I still consider myself a newbie although I am a few years into the red pill.

I am good at house parties and online and use those to keep my motivation and confidence high to work on my other parts of game including money which you are smart to focus on at this point in your life.

I have always been terrible at bars and clubs, but recently have worked my way to scoring dates and bangs from them. I just started to tap into day game. I really need to move to a place I am happier in to get better logistics, demographics, and chances for a satisfying social circle.

I agree with the veteran posters as a fellow newbie that this strategy is wise to keep your bread and butter going and put as much effort that gives you satisfaction into your other parts of game.

Post: #16

Keep going at it! Trial and error my friend, what works for me might not work for you.

Post: #17

If you keep your stats, I am sure you will be surprised at your result too.
It's not hard to talk to 10 girls at a bar. let's say he went out 30 times and he got numbers 20 times out of 30. I don't think that's bad.

I think we can learn a lot more when there are guys like this who's like one of us and stay honest.

(05-31-2013 03:42 PM)Gator_McKlusky Wrote:  I don't understand how 300 approaches only leads to 20 number, yet you somehow convince 15 girls from class to sleep with you. Just do whatever you are doing with the girls from class when you are out at night.

Post: #18

(05-30-2013 08:10 PM)DrZoidberg Wrote:  my main question is, do you guys think there is a realistic chance that I will be able to do any better if I keep trying?

have you tried different strategies and stuff or have you been doing the same thing over and over again?

quick little examples..

- since you don't like clubs chaos try going out later in the night. for instance, when parties start at 10pm and end at 3-4am try to hit the clubs after midnight. maybe at 1am. girls drunk. party is peaking. hit it up for an hour screening hard. pick the most receptive girl. instead of stealing her or isolating stick to her and leave together at the end of the night and crash at her place. try it for a week and see what happens.

- for another week go out even later stay on the street around clubs and try to swoop girls leaving clubs or traveling between them.

- for another week try slow strategy. more like comfort based. go out early. do 5 legit approaches. screen for logistics/bf/etc. pick the best prospect and stick with her and join her group. vibe together. win her friends. and pull when they leave.

- try to befriend some girls. and go out with them as friends that can introduce you or put you on.

stuff like that. view is as a challenge. 1 week challenge. i see no other option. going out again and again doing the same shit doesn't really makes the difference beside getting comfortable with social pressure. which is a good thing. but getting girls requires something more than being immune to social feedback.

this forum is vault of game knowledge. ask advanced guys for specifics

Post: #19

TL;DR

Sounds like the 80/20 rule.

Put your efforts into what is bringing you success and drop the rest.

Post: #20

Only Travesty444 barely wrote something about what I would advise you:

MOVE TO ANOTHER CITY.

If you cannot move due to academical reasons (I read you are in a pharmacy program), keep on working while you are still there. When you are then able to move you will be unstoppable. Roosh's beginnings were in D.C., and other places are less of a challenge now.

Everytime I go out during the night I get results 0.1%-10% better than the last time, which could be slow but monotonically increasing results.

Read this for motivation:

http://www.rooshv.com/just-keep-going

http://www.rooshv.com/one-night-can-change-everything

and THIS: http://www.getgirlsnotgame.com/let-the-game-be-fun/

Quote:I remember on a Tuesday night, about four months into learning pickup, I went out with my wings to Beauty Bar in Union Square. I wasn’t in the mood to go out at all, but I pushed myself to go out anyway. I told myself it would be a chill night with the guys. As I stepped into the bar and I saw a petite brunette standing about two feet away from me. She was alone and looking bored, so I decided to open her for the sake of doing an approach. Within five minutes, this girl literally DRAGS me out of the bar, and walks me back to her apartment around the block to hook up. In the back of my mind, I had a feeling that this was too good to be true, and that I would actually end up being killed and stuffed in her closet. But I just had to go and see what happens.
If I didn’t go out, or for that matter, if I didn’t take a chance and talk to that girl, then I would’ve went home alone with nothing to be excited about. I will always remember this night until the day I die. It made me feel amazing, and it gave me the belief and the confidence to realize I was guy women desired.

Post: #21

thanks guys, you have all given me some awesome support and advice. I went out Friday and Saturday night. Friday I ended up having to cut short, but Saturday I hit up a new spot, and I'm pretty sure I came closer to getting a ONS than I have ever come before. it's actually pretty embarrassing how I blew it. I was doing a lot of things you guys suggested...I lowered my standards a bit, and I was going more with a "find a set and stick with them" kinda strategy. I had zeroed in on one girl, and was covertly groping all over her all night right in front of her friends. the whole group was from out of town for a wedding, and she was flying back in the morning. she had a hotel room like a block away. she kinda hinted that they were leaving, but definitely didn't tell me to leave or anything like that. when I'm in those situations though, sometimes I get this urge to either push for something, or eject and cut my losses, which is okay at midnight, but at closing time probably not a brilliant tactic. so instead of trying to stick with her, I used this incredibly lame line: "where's the afterparty?" she said there wasn't one, she had to wake up and leave the next day. so I gave her a sloppy makeout (first time going for the kiss too but I knew she wanted it) then asked a second time. I figured she'd get that it was code for sex and invite me back, but she didn't so...I just left. almost any other move at that point would have been better. I should have used roosh's weasel line where you go in to use the bathroom, but then stay and bang them. fuck it though, I learned a lot, and you guys have all given me a ton of things to think about, I literally can't even count all the good tips I got.

I'm probably not going to be so hardcore about game from now on, I think that's part of the reason I got so frustrated and burnt out, because I was forcing myself to do things when I didn't want to. this weekend I pretty much had no choice since the power was out anyway, there was literally nothing else to do. I went out not to "get numbers" or anything lame like that, but just to get a drink and just do whatever felt natural to me, because my power was out and I wanted to kill time. as it turns out, if I go to a bar and get a drink, I will HAVE to talk to someone, my body just won't let me sit there anymore when there are bangable girls around and not talk to them. in my head, I think I've been a slow learner, but the truth is, I have come miles from where I was before. a year ago, I couldn't even walk into a bar by myself. it took me four tries just to walk into one for the first time, and several more to do my first approach, which was hilariously bad. I hope in another year I will be back here to tell you guys a success story and motivate other people like me who have tried very hard to do this and have not had success right away or as much as a lot of the other guys on here. I've been lurking here for a long time and you guys have given me some solid advice more times than I can count. for now though, I'm going to bed, I'm fucking exhausted. thank you, all of you.