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Donfitz007 · 09-14-2018 05:23 PM

hey have any of you guys met a stalker? like the type that'll show up at your house? how do i deal with those type of women?

redbeard · 09-15-2018 08:49 AM

Are you guys still texting girls? I'm increasingly getting more and more girls that want to chat exclusively on Instagram. I'm not sure if this is a cultural shift, or bad game on my part.

Bucephalus · 09-16-2018 04:39 AM

Apologies all for the warning level: Roosh helped me edit my very first forum post which had some personal demographic information in need of change and that was the cost.

When it rains, it pours.

It starts a fortnight ago on Saturday. Girl A texts me to say she will visit from overseas in 2 days and will I see her? She is holidaying for 7 days and the purpose of her visit is… to see me apparently. I am in two minds – this is a girl I sought help for in my first forum post - an LTR that ended with sentiments running high. With the good advice of forum members, I had ended it and put her on the no-contact list. Feeling confident I no longer held strong sentiments, and with her HB8 booty calling me from such an impressive intercontinental distance, I decide to see her. Meet her a block from my apartment, say hi, take her upstairs and we are banging 15 minutes later. I have a business trip to Big City 1 and she decides to join me. I bang her senseless every night bar one (when I stay with a mate in Big City 1) until she leaves on Thursday. Friday night I am so exhausted I sleep 12h.

The next day is a Saturday and friends are visiting from Big City 2. I meet them for coffee with a tinder date joining us. I have chatted to this girl on the phone in Spanish (she is Colombian) but her English is not up to speed to join in with our witty repartee, so she goes shopping with her friend and we meet up again for lunch. She is a little disappointing in person. Afterward, I open a day-game set HB7.5 Hong Kong girl and take her number. We remain in contact during the week – with a possible first date happening later today (now 8 days later). The Saturday night is a write-off in terms of girls, as I have organised a dinner for my visiting friends who are staying at my place.

The following day (Sunday) I meet a new tinder date, Girl B, a block from my place and take her to a nearby local. After 2.5h we are banging at my place. She is 29, HB5.5 (7 body, 4 face) and is shy – tells me she is a virgin. Pfff, c'mon we met on tinder. But it turns out to be true. The "banging" is more of a coaching lesson and she is a keen learner (and is keen for more practice). I find her jewellery left in my bedroom the next day and place it away before regular plate, girl C (a flight attendant from Singapore), comes to stay with me for a few days.

On the second evening of girl C's visit I happen to be in the gym with just one other person there – she is an HB7.5, also a flight attendant, this time from China and with a different airline. I open, #-close, then bounce her back to my apartment (girl C is out). We have only known each other for 30minutes and she is understandably anxious. I walk her to her nearby hotel and we get a selfie and I take her number. I'm not confident this was solid; we had the briefest of text exchanges before she departed the following day, and the conversation never went very deep. We'll see if I hear from her on her next visit.

On the third day of girl C's visit (again, daily banging), girl D spots us. Girl D is a previous tinder close who was in rotation up until a week ago, when she was quite rude in her communication with me making me think she was no longer interested (I invited her to my dinner party and she was very iffy about it all). She works close to where I live and sees me park and get out of the car with girl C. She waves and yells to get my attention from the other side of the car park. I usher girl C into my apartment building. Girl C: "I think that woman was trying to get your attention"; Me: "yeh she works near by building, I run into her and make small talk from time to time. Weird for her to call out like that. But I'm sure she's okay". Girl D sends a series of long and passive-aggressive hamster texts.

After Girl C has left for overseas, I have a free Friday evening to prepare for a trip to Big City 3 early the next day. I am heading therefor a half-day conference as well as catch up with a good mate and fellow forum member. When I am done it is late (930pm) and my bed is empty. I ring girl D who is free. I explain my position: That I thought she was no longer interested, and I qualify her. I explain that I would like to see her, but of course what happens next depends on what she wants too. She wants to see me. I pick her up, drive her home and not long after we are banging. She stays the night and the next morning we talk about Chinese politics (she is from China) – she had never seen the Winnie-the-poo / Xi Ji Ping meme and it cracks her up - literally doubled over with laughter. She decides to post it to WeChat, brave girl. I drop her home. When I get home I realise Girl C (the flight attendant) had left a cute love letter on my fridge before she head to the airport. I'm pretty confident Girl D did not see it…

That same morning my flight to Big City 3 has been cancelled by the airline and a later flight means missing most of the conference so I scrap the whole trip and get my tickets refunded. Now I have a Saturday night with no plans. I pipeline some tinder matches but the pickings are slim. I go out drinking with the boys. After some preliminary beers, Wing and I walk towards the classiest bar in town. On the way I get two phone calls from different tinder pipelines. One is from Big City 3, who I was planning to catch up with on my now-cancelled visit – a petite 26 yo pharmacist with some amazing nude pics on her profile (very keen). We hadn't spoken yet so I run some connection building (with my good buddy Wing laughing at me in the background). The other call is from a local tinder girl who is getting drunk at a house party and invites me along. Her drunk friends are actually the ones doing the calling using her phone and requesting we bring more booze. Wing and I decide it is not really our scene. We head to the bar.

At the bar I open a 2-set of HB8s, both are long-legged stunners; one Australian, one Czech. It hooks well and I get them laughing and after 1.5h of us bantering in set I get the details of my target before the girls go home. Wing and I head to the next bar and whilst he goes off to the bathroom I open an HB7.5 (Girl D) at the bar. It hooks well and when Wing returns I am locked in with her (girl E) at the bar. Wing takes off and I meet and befriend Girl E's friends who are mainly couples. All of us head to the next bar, with Girl E and I taking a detour to look at a nearby local sight. She is an Aussie chick originally from the country but now with hippie tendencies and a very cool job… a redhead and very cute indeed. We join her friends at the next bar and I isolate her; she tells me I make her nervous; I take the time to do some extra comfort game by demonstrating vulnerability and she melts. Take her home and bang her with no resistance; she has an amazing body, some of the firmest, shapeliest C-cups of all time. I could run my hands over her for an infinity; after 1 then 2h or so she gets sore so we call it a day. Put her in a cab home, taking her number before I do. We text today and line up a meet when she next visits from interstate.

My current logistical set up is the best I've ever had – an apartment with facilities and a view within walking distance to a lot of D2 venues, d-game and bars. It has been a hugely fun distraction from applying myself to a dedicated LTR search and clearly I've fallen off the bandwagon. Have an overseas trip lined up for next weekend and possibly another one with some forum members in November….

The temptation for casual sex is ever strong and spinning plates in this manner is the biggest obstacle in finding, even seeking, a serious LTR.

Maybe just a few more months…

Roswell87 · 09-16-2018 03:21 PM

Dm a girl on insta 2 months back, ask her out like 3 times within that time span with no success of a first date. I text her today about her fitness and body goals to see if I can get a last attempt date out of her. I told her about a park, I jog at weekly and she caught the hook from there on. In her word, she wanted a jogging partner so badly so maybe she wants me to become her partner. I plan to jog with her at the park this Friday. I am trying finding a way to get the first date bang or escalate as much as possible. I am driving my mom car to the park. My plan is jog and exercise with her first, when finished doing our exercises then make an excuse to lead her back to my car for a cool off or a water drinking session and escalate from there in the car. I will definitely park my car in a private or secluded location to lower her ASD. Can’t bring her home because I live with my mom. Will very much appreciate it if anyone can give me some opinions on this idea of mine.

arafat scarf · 09-16-2018 06:08 PM

Here to vent and possibly get some brutal feedback/criticism from the forum.

I've been seeing a Mexican girl for the last 7 months. We've agreed to exclusivity (though not b/f,g/f) and during our time together she has been incredibly attentive, nurturing and doting. She doesn't nag, and she's not materialistic. Things are good inside and outside the bedroom, and I've been very happy with this one up to now. She treats her family well, she treats me well and makes me feel like a man. I've kept my game tight with her and I haven't been needy, desperate, or weak.

But, there's a problem.

She's been traveling alone on a trip to Europe for the last few weeks, and this week she's going to stay at a male friend's apartment for 7 days in Paris. I don't know the exact nature of their past relationship, but I know he doesn't have a girlfriend now. She also mentioned previously time that this friend likes to party.

The thing is, she hasn't tried to hide anything about staying with this guy. The trip was planned many months ago and she had told me that she was intending to stay with him when we first started seeing each other. There's nothing underhanded or particularly sneaky happening below the surface.

Yet it still doesn't feel right and last Thursday I told her that I didn't like the situation, that she was crossing a line, and that I would have expected that she was going to change plans given how things are going between us. I didn't lose my cool, but I told her sternly.

She insisted the guy's only a friend, that nothing will happen because that's not what she wants, that she only wants to be with me. She also mentioned that she would have already cheated already on the trip if something was going to happen, that she's had opportunities. She then offered to not stay with him and find a hostel; that as a couple we need to 'treat each other's hearts well'. But I said to go ahead and stay with him and that things will be stronger between us if she comes back and we're together again.

Of course, I don't really believe that. I said it because I didn't want to restrict her. And I don't... I want her to make good decisions on her own, at least as far as major matters like this are concerned.

I know how these girls are and my expectations are pretty low. Yet I'm still disappointed with the outcome of this one. I'm upset with the situation, upset with her judgment, and upset with myself for letting it come to this point. But getting upset doesn't change anything, and I feel the best thing to do is to start phasing her out. Aside from this incident, she's been great and this has been really the only thing wrong she's done.

She'll be tough to lose, but I just don't see a way back.

If I permit the situation, there's no way I can respect myself for letting my girl crash at another dude's house for a week. If I don't permit the situation and strongly communicate that her behavior is unacceptable, the dynamic shifts to me as the possessive one putting restrictions on her and I'm made to look like a simp. And then no matter the case, I won't be able respect her for thinking that it's alright to sleep over at another guy 'friend's' house for a week when we're together.

Live and learn.

packagehandler · 09-16-2018 06:32 PM

(09-13-2018 03:27 PM)Mikestar Wrote: So I have a small dilemma. Me and this girl have been talking nearly every day since Mexico, she has been saying she cannot wait to see me as she is coming to Europe (in a week). I told her today to buy the ticket to fly to see me in 2 weeks for a week. She said where can I get lodging nearby, I told her wtf you’re staying at mine, she said I would need to pay you, I don’t want to distrupt you. I told her don’t be silly and she was like okay I’ll stay with you.

She’s rich for Mexican standards but a ticket costs £100 return. She hasn’t replied to my last message for a while but I have a feeling she’s not going to buy the tickets to see me even though we’ve been planning this, she says she will definitely see me in December instead.

What should I do? Keep pushing her to buy the tickets? I don’t even mind buying them for her if money is a problem for her. Or is she trying not to see me, I don’t know what this girl wants to do. I wanna see her and bang her brains out again for 7 days, I want her to fly to me like we agreed.

Are you and Mikestar banging the same chick?
[Image: lBYwEDm.gif?noredirect]

Mikestar · 09-17-2018 01:32 AM

The timings don’t add up but can you imagine Big Grin

there seems to be something in the air about Mexican chicks

Anyway, yesterday I just arrived in Italy. At the bus station to the airport a hot brunette tapped me on the shoulder and asked is this the bus station, I said yeah. It turns out the bus station moved so we missed the last bus, so i took her and one other dude and took an Uber, the chick started crying saying I’m not gonna make it, and then “my boyfriend just broke up with me” and I got a shit eating grin on my face. Her flight was not my flight which was a damn shame because she was travelling all alone to spain and was looking for some instant dick. She was mixed Colombian and Chilean, nice.

I arrived in Italy and god damn am I surprised, chicks looking good with amazing fashion, every girl showing their legs and wearing heels with their hair done up. I got eyefucked a lot too. It’s a notoriously hard country but let’s see what I can do in these 4 months.

Bucephalus · 09-17-2018 03:34 AM

Hey Arafat Scarf

Not a fun situation.
What future did you have in mind with this girl? (In my mind exclusivity is a gf/bf equivalent)
And how old are you? (And her)

If you are looking to play the field, this is really water off the duck’s back.

If you were considering escalating commitment levels (again, you guys were already doing exclusivity) then hopefully you have sought LTR red flags. Being close to family and respectful to you is good (and her answer in wanting to “respect each other’s hearts”) is good also. But not sufficient. She could, for example, have a highly promiscuous past. She could be gaming you or she could be behaving authentically - her past actions and relationships are most helpful here (do a forum search for LTR red flags).

Finally, don’t feel guilty or anxious about “restricting” her behaviors. Whether you decide to pursue something more serious or just keep her as plate, if her actions are going to fundamentally change your view of her or the relationship in a way you dislike then call it. Personally I would assert my displeasure. She can choose to respect that or not. Don’t expect her to mind read.

Interesting. Dream Medicine & I were chatting about a similar situation the other day. It could well be that solo trips (guy or girl, pre-booked or not) might be the captive bolt for maintaining trust in an LTR.

Solo travelers experience the cultural climate of casual sex... on steroids. No wonder it is easy for trust in the LTR to be undermined.

Noir · 09-17-2018 04:27 AM

Had some free time last week so did some NLP hypnosis. The type where you go in and out of consciousness for 60 minutes.

Placebo or not, the confidence is real. Won a standup competition on Saturday. Went out to celebrate with another mate before being joined by a few others.

Venue 1

Sit next to a group of models outside, minding my own business. Some rapper comes and we become friends over a smoke.

I turn to this Afrikaans 8 who is obviously staring at me. Open her and start immediately flirting. She's cute but I am ready to go to the next venue and exchange numbers.

Venue 2

Hit the dancefloor.
Girl on an elevated platform puts her arms around me and leans in for the kiss.
Another girl comes grinding on me. Both are 7s but nothing spectacular. See another girl I know with her boyfriend who is ecstatic to see me. Keep the pleasantries at minimum.

Third girl approaches me now, this time from behind and smacks my arse and comes in to dance. My mate takes on her friend. Go outside for a smoke. Come back and go to the VIP and ask these girls if they mind us chilling there for 5 minutes.
No problem.

It's still early (12) so let's hit the next place.

Venue 3

Queuing to get in. Amsterdam girl is flirting with bouncer. Tell her to back off, he's mine. She turns to me and shit tests me (don't remember) but I smashed it and she grabs my face and tells me "you're so cute, let's meet inside".

Go in, start flirting with this German girl. She is there with her boyfriend, tells me I am really hot and would go home with me if she was single. I tell her to slow down and find me a girl instead. She finds me some random girl on the dancefloor and literally brings her to me. I am not interested though. Music is kicking off.

Dance with some black girl. "You're so cute but I think you're too young for me". She's 28. I tell her she is right. It works. Make out a bit.

I go to the front, by the DJ and speakers. Indian girl, who has made out with 3 guys already, comes and grabs my dick. Literally. Tries to pull in to me. I dodge and choke her against the wall and tell her that she doesn't know what she's getting herself in to. I am not interested, fucking slut. I grab her pussy as I do this and let her know that she can't spend 5 minutes in my world.

This was the wrong thing to do because she ended up following me the whole night and somewhat cockblocking me.

I left, with no girl and honestly, I didn't care. It was amusing to see women throw themselves all over. If anything it's unbecoming. Shoulda pulled the first absolute stunner from venue 1 but it was still early.

Placebo or not, this NLP shit always makes women literally open me, come up to me or at least perimeter.

Multiple "you're cute/hot", 1 ass grab and 1 dick grab. No cold approaches, nothing, just having some drinks with my boys.

The day response is even better albeit not as direct.

[email protected] · 09-17-2018 08:43 AM

(09-16-2018 06:08 PM)arafat scarf Wrote: Here to vent and possibly get some brutal feedback/criticism from the forum.

I've been seeing a Mexican girl for the last 7 months. We've agreed to exclusivity (though not b/f,g/f) and during our time together she has been incredibly attentive, nurturing and doting. She doesn't nag, and she's not materialistic. Things are good inside and outside the bedroom, and I've been very happy with this one up to now. She treats her family well, she treats me well and makes me feel like a man. I've kept my game tight with her and I haven't been needy, desperate, or weak.

But, there's a problem.

She's been traveling alone on a trip to Europe for the last few weeks, and this week she's going to stay at a male friend's apartment for 7 days in Paris. I don't know the exact nature of their past relationship, but I know he doesn't have a girlfriend now. She also mentioned previously time that this friend likes to party.

The thing is, she hasn't tried to hide anything about staying with this guy. The trip was planned many months ago and she had told me that she was intending to stay with him when we first started seeing each other. There's nothing underhanded or particularly sneaky happening below the surface.

Yet it still doesn't feel right and last Thursday I told her that I didn't like the situation, that she was crossing a line, and that I would have expected that she was going to change plans given how things are going between us. I didn't lose my cool, but I told her sternly.

She insisted the guy's only a friend, that nothing will happen because that's not what she wants, that she only wants to be with me. She also mentioned that she would have already cheated already on the trip if something was going to happen, that she's had opportunities. She then offered to not stay with him and find a hostel; that as a couple we need to 'treat each other's hearts well'. But I said to go ahead and stay with him and that things will be stronger between us if she comes back and we're together again.

Of course, I don't really believe that. I said it because I didn't want to restrict her. And I don't... I want her to make good decisions on her own, at least as far as major matters like this are concerned.

I know how these girls are and my expectations are pretty low. Yet I'm still disappointed with the outcome of this one. I'm upset with the situation, upset with her judgment, and upset with myself for letting it come to this point. But getting upset doesn't change anything, and I feel the best thing to do is to start phasing her out. Aside from this incident, she's been great and this has been really the only thing wrong she's done.

She'll be tough to lose, but I just don't see a way back.

If I permit the situation, there's no way I can respect myself for letting my girl crash at another dude's house for a week. If I don't permit the situation and strongly communicate that her behavior is unacceptable, the dynamic shifts to me as the possessive one putting restrictions on her and I'm made to look like a simp. And then no matter the case, I won't be able respect her for thinking that it's alright to sleep over at another guy 'friend's' house for a week when we're together.

Live and learn.

Tough situation, but remember these Rules:

1) Always Trust Your Gut. Something seems 'off' about this, so trust that instinct.

2) "She's not your girl; it's just your turn" and maybe your turn is up.

Look, you voiced your opinion on the matter. She offered to stay somewhere else, but it sounds like that might have just been her bluffing. If she goes ahead and stays with the guy, then you have your answer.

3) You Are The Prize. Are you going to allow yourself to be disrespected?

arafat scarf · 09-17-2018 09:52 AM

(09-17-2018 03:34 AM)Phineas Wrote: Hey Arafat Scarf

Not a fun situation.
What future did you have in mind with this girl? (In my mind exclusivity is a gf/bf equivalent)
And how old are you? (And her)

If you are looking to play the field, this is really water off the duck’s back.

If you were considering escalating commitment levels (again, you guys were already doing exclusivity) then hopefully you have sought LTR red flags. Being close to family and respectful to you is good (and her answer in wanting to “respect each other’s hearts”) is good also. But not sufficient. She could, for example, have a highly promiscuous past. She could be gaming you or she could be behaving authentically - her past actions and relationships are most helpful here (do a forum search for LTR red flags).

Finally, don’t feel guilty or anxious about “restricting” her behaviors. Whether you decide to pursue something more serious or just keep her as plate, if her actions are going to fundamentally change your view of her or the relationship in a way you dislike then call it. Personally I would assert my displeasure. She can choose to respect that or not. Don’t expect her to mind read.

Hey Phineas,

Thanks for the thought out response.

I'm 34 and she's 27 so she should know the score and that this kind of shit should be out of bounds.

Had her pegged as long term girlfriend material for sure. Probably would've considered moving in with her if things kept going along well.

I don't know how promiscuous her past was. I tend not to ask because I never want to know and if I hook a girl, to me it doesn't matter. We slept with each other on the 2nd date so I know she's no white dove.

I've considered the red flags but was willing to roll the dice on this one. It's always a roll of the dice, isn't it?

It's not that I feel guilty about restricting behaviors, it's that I want a quality lover. To me, a quality lover voluntarily and instinctively make the right decision on important things like this. Like I said, I know how these girls are... but if things are going to get more serious I have to see over a period of time that she has the right character and values. I'd give more leeway to a younger girl, but I would have liked to see better judgment in this case: this one's 27.

I prefer to give my lovers a long leash, but in the future, I'll need to find a way to proof against something like this.

She's sweet and sincere and our chemistry was great. But I'll be a better man if I enforce my standard, walk away, and cast a new line.

(09-17-2018 03:34 AM)[email protected] Wrote: Tough situation, but remember these Rules:

1) Always Trust Your Gut. Something seems 'off' about this, so trust that instinct.

2) "She's not your girl; it's just your turn" and maybe your turn is up.

Look, you voiced your opinion on the matter. She offered to stay somewhere else, but it sounds like that might have just been her bluffing. If she goes ahead and stays with the guy, then you have your answer.

3) You Are The Prize. Are you going to allow yourself to be disrespected?

Thanks for the perspective.

My gut tells me I'm numero uno, and that there's a good chance that nothing happens. I'm thinking more like her turn is up. And with the 3rd point you're right, it really comes down to respect -- first the issue of her lack of respect in thinking this situation is acceptable and second preserving my self-respect in not allowing this type of girl to occupy an important place in my life.

I appreciate the advice and comments from you guys so far.

skr11070x · 09-17-2018 11:25 AM

here is my friends exct story
"We talked for a bit on the riverside, and drank some wine
noone other than me was into drinking, so noone became tipsy even.
The other two person from the group were arguing about something small, so we acted like them, overexeggrating their shitty traits, many laughs were had.
Then we went to a bar, not to drink sadly, just to play table footbal and snooker.
I played good AF, I thought the girl how to shoot the ball in table football properly, I placed my had on hers, and made her score goals, she was super happy for that. Than we played snooker, her friend said she liked it, but she was not into it at all, I thought her how to do that properly as well, but because of her unwillingnes I decided that we should go somewhere else.
All the other pubs were closing
so we went back to the riverbank
we sat down, I sat down next to her and we listened to music on Spotify.
at some point we started listening to our own music with the girl, ignoring the other, she showed me what she liked, I showed it to her as well, not much similarity... than talked about other shit, where she wanted to travel, etc…
It was getting cold af, so the girl put on his coat, being the fucktard I am I went out in a t-shirt only
I used this situation as a chance to sit right by her, our thighs touching, so that I wouldn't be cold either.
She saw that I was cold, so she wanted to give me the sweater she had in her bag.
I kindly refused and asked for my manlet friends insted, she laughed, and showed, by touching my stomach how ridiculously short that sweater would be.
I had a really hard time getting into that small AF sweater, but I managed it, than sit down, thighs touching to the girl, and placed my hand around her back
she put her head on my shoulder
than she asked me, if I had any weird requirements towards a future girlfriend, I said no, and asked for her hand, the two of wich i held together in my hands
Than she asked me, if me or my friend was the one, who planned this night.
I said, my friend thouht of this. She said that, the other girl is not really ready for a relationship.
so my frined would be likely not to succeed
Than I asked her, if she is ready for a relationship. She said yes immediatly and than acted all cute and shit.
I asked If she had any plans for the day after tomorrow, cause we could go for a dinner, she said absolutely.
Time was up, the other girl wanted to go home, so we did.
The other girl slept at the ones house I was trying to pick up
I went holding the girls hand, all the way to her door.
Than we had a hug, and she said, she could really sleep in my hands right now
They were about to say goodby, so I took my chance and kissed the girl.
She was into it.
after the first ocassion of making outm, I asked if she wanted to meet the next day as well, she said that, that would be hard, but she would try to, but the dinner was a definite yes.
Than we said goodbye.
I added her on facebook, and the next day in the afternoon I asked what she was up to, and where she would want to go for dinner.
She told me, that she wanted to meet me that day instead.
I agreed.
We met
Talked a little, and she handed me back a little drink, she took accidentally with her the night before.
than she told me that she is sorry for "yesterday", and there is no problem with me, but she didn't want a relationship, and she would like to fix her life first. = BULLSHIT
I was cool and confident last night, but this shit shooked me. Now it is obvious to me, that she was shittesting me, and I failed, because I became speechless and didn’t try to convince her otherwise.
We said goodbye and no word of her since (2days).
"

Trent W. · 09-17-2018 04:38 PM

(09-16-2018 06:08 PM)arafat scarf Wrote: Here to vent and possibly get some brutal feedback/criticism from the forum.

I've been seeing a Mexican girl for the last 7 months. We've agreed to exclusivity (though not b/f,g/f) and during our time together she has been incredibly attentive, nurturing and doting. She doesn't nag, and she's not materialistic. Things are good inside and outside the bedroom, and I've been very happy with this one up to now. She treats her family well, she treats me well and makes me feel like a man. I've kept my game tight with her and I haven't been needy, desperate, or weak.

But, there's a problem.

She's been traveling alone on a trip to Europe for the last few weeks, and this week she's going to stay at a male friend's apartment for 7 days in Paris. I don't know the exact nature of their past relationship, but I know he doesn't have a girlfriend now. She also mentioned previously time that this friend likes to party.

The thing is, she hasn't tried to hide anything about staying with this guy. The trip was planned many months ago and she had told me that she was intending to stay with him when we first started seeing each other. There's nothing underhanded or particularly sneaky happening below the surface.

Yet it still doesn't feel right and last Thursday I told her that I didn't like the situation, that she was crossing a line, and that I would have expected that she was going to change plans given how things are going between us. I didn't lose my cool, but I told her sternly.

She insisted the guy's only a friend, that nothing will happen because that's not what she wants, that she only wants to be with me. She also mentioned that she would have already cheated already on the trip if something was going to happen, that she's had opportunities. She then offered to not stay with him and find a hostel; that as a couple we need to 'treat each other's hearts well'. But I said to go ahead and stay with him and that things will be stronger between us if she comes back and we're together again.

Of course, I don't really believe that. I said it because I didn't want to restrict her. And I don't... I want her to make good decisions on her own, at least as far as major matters like this are concerned.

I know how these girls are and my expectations are pretty low. Yet I'm still disappointed with the outcome of this one. I'm upset with the situation, upset with her judgment, and upset with myself for letting it come to this point. But getting upset doesn't change anything, and I feel the best thing to do is to start phasing her out. Aside from this incident, she's been great and this has been really the only thing wrong she's done.

She'll be tough to lose, but I just don't see a way back.

If I permit the situation, there's no way I can respect myself for letting my girl crash at another dude's house for a week. If I don't permit the situation and strongly communicate that her behavior is unacceptable, the dynamic shifts to me as the possessive one putting restrictions on her and I'm made to look like a simp. And then no matter the case, I won't be able respect her for thinking that it's alright to sleep over at another guy 'friend's' house for a week when we're together.

Live and learn.

Literally the exact same thing happened to a good friend of mine. He got pissed off, she got pissed off, they broke up. She, many months later, tried to get back with him, even admitted that she was doing it out of insecurity, wanting to feel free and such feministic BS.

Anyway, it is a tough tough situation.

On one hand I'm thinking it's like traffic laws: they are there to prevent accidents and ensure smooth traffic but if an accident is about to happen, wouldn't you break the law to avoid it? What I'm saying is focusing on the essence (your good relationship) and not the letter (zero tolerance on such behavior by default) of the law.

On the other, this really opens the door for many similar displays of behavior in the future. If the girl really wants to be with you and you show that you don't like what she's about to do, why would she risk your relationship? Ego?

Anyway, I would say follow your gut and let it play out the way it will.

Noir · 09-18-2018 03:46 AM

@arafat

I am of the belief that if a woman intends on cheating/straying etc. she won't bring anything up but instead, be coy about it. It doesn't seem likely she will stray if she is telling you she will stay with another guy. It's probably honest and indirectly, a shit test on it's own.

By indirectly, I mean, she intends literally just using him for accommodation and your reaction tells her a lot about where you are, mentally. Your response is natural and probably what she wanted (a bit of jealousy) so I wouldn't really worry about it.

At this stage, it's really just damage control and it's a big deal if you make it a big deal.

From a man to a man, I know how jarring and disappointing it is. You feel, a while into the relationship, this kinda shit should be non-negotiable and not even worth bringing up. She should respect boundaries and how you feel. She should KNOW, not to even try this. Unfortunately, it's in the nature of the woman to try her luck, push the boundaries and gain yards here and there.

What's done is done so all you can do is trust her. If she strays, then it's the price you pay to discover what kind of a person she is and that's the best kind of lesson, assuming you don't let it chip away at your ego. Rather now, than later.

Women rarely will cheat, if/when they tell you about other guys and it's usually to push buttons so they can feel in control. If they're coy, evasive and secretive then you should be concerned.

It's similar to if I am out and hitting on a girl and a guy is getting pissy. Then I know he ain't getting laid and is trying to get in her pants. The guy who is calm and collected, smirking while he does his own thing is the guy who is actually fucking her.

Similar concepts.

Just swallow it up, be quiet and see how she behaves. If she is over the top with being lovey-dovey, during or after that week with this guy then your alarm bells should be going off. It means she is feeling pretty shitty for doing something that she is chasing the rapport with you to feel like you are fine with everything.

If she is dismissive and in denial then it's unlikely anything happened.

Of course, this is a general rule of thumb I follow but thought I would contribute another perspective here.

The above is assuming you don't bring it up and you shouldn't really.

Dalaran1991 · 09-18-2018 04:40 AM

(09-16-2018 06:08 PM)arafat scarf Wrote: Here to vent and possibly get some brutal feedback/criticism from the forum.

I've been seeing a Mexican girl for the last 7 months. We've agreed to exclusivity (though not b/f,g/f) and during our time together she has been incredibly attentive, nurturing and doting. She doesn't nag, and she's not materialistic. Things are good inside and outside the bedroom, and I've been very happy with this one up to now. She treats her family well, she treats me well and makes me feel like a man. I've kept my game tight with her and I haven't been needy, desperate, or weak.

But, there's a problem.

She's been traveling alone on a trip to Europe for the last few weeks, and this week she's going to stay at a male friend's apartment for 7 days in Paris. I don't know the exact nature of their past relationship, but I know he doesn't have a girlfriend now. She also mentioned previously time that this friend likes to party.

The thing is, she hasn't tried to hide anything about staying with this guy. The trip was planned many months ago and she had told me that she was intending to stay with him when we first started seeing each other. There's nothing underhanded or particularly sneaky happening below the surface.

Yet it still doesn't feel right and last Thursday I told her that I didn't like the situation, that she was crossing a line, and that I would have expected that she was going to change plans given how things are going between us. I didn't lose my cool, but I told her sternly.

She insisted the guy's only a friend, that nothing will happen because that's not what she wants, that she only wants to be with me. She also mentioned that she would have already cheated already on the trip if something was going to happen, that she's had opportunities. She then offered to not stay with him and find a hostel; that as a couple we need to 'treat each other's hearts well'. But I said to go ahead and stay with him and that things will be stronger between us if she comes back and we're together again.

Of course, I don't really believe that. I said it because I didn't want to restrict her. And I don't... I want her to make good decisions on her own, at least as far as major matters like this are concerned.

I know how these girls are and my expectations are pretty low. Yet I'm still disappointed with the outcome of this one. I'm upset with the situation, upset with her judgment, and upset with myself for letting it come to this point. But getting upset doesn't change anything, and I feel the best thing to do is to start phasing her out. Aside from this incident, she's been great and this has been really the only thing wrong she's done.

She'll be tough to lose, but I just don't see a way back.

If I permit the situation, there's no way I can respect myself for letting my girl crash at another dude's house for a week. If I don't permit the situation and strongly communicate that her behavior is unacceptable, the dynamic shifts to me as the possessive one putting restrictions on her and I'm made to look like a simp. And then no matter the case, I won't be able respect her for thinking that it's alright to sleep over at another guy 'friend's' house for a week when we're together.

Live and learn.

Tough but let this one go. She is not LTR material if she thinks is ok to stay at a male's house without you. You have every rights to enforce your laws in this particular case. If it were you staying at a girl's house for a week how would she feel?

Just go to show how guys really got brainwashed if they think putting the foot down on something like this is "possessive". My girl even asked me if she could go jogging with this guy from her gym class. I told her how would it look from the outside and from my position, and how it would look if I was to go jogging/training with a girl. She realized quickly it wouldn't be right, and dropped it.

Heartiste talked about this situation, it's tough. You can be guaranteed that the girl WILL do something stupid. A lady friend went to a summer job without her boyfriend, and sure enough she kissed a few guys. And this is a very sweet girl with lotta LTR qualities, I always said if I wasn't with my girlfriend I would happily date this one.

If the girl is worth it she will cancel her trip and you'd better offer you two another trip instead. Or she invites you on the trip and makes an effort to accomodate you. Otherwise demote her to a plate.

ksbms · 09-18-2018 05:47 AM

Great insights from the guys.

I partially agree and disagree with Noir.

I agree it's a red flag and a non-starter to verbalise a request like hers but I disagree you should act nonchalantly. Too much liberal bullshit. Especially, she's Mexican and it's a part and parcel of Mexican culture for a man to call the shots.

I think Dalaran1991 has provided fantastically sagacious input as well and I'm pretty much on his side but, well, seems like I (want to?) believe not all is lost. After all, despite the fact women are alike, there's some variance in what people are like, with their upbringing, culture, belief systems and so on. Let's make na assumption a woman is allowed to put forward one major test (but not excute it) every few years. The reason for that is explained towards the bottom of my reply to you.

(09-16-2018 06:08 PM)arafat scarf Wrote: Here to vent and possibly get some brutal feedback/criticism from the forum.

I've been seeing a Mexican girl for the last 7 months. We've agreed to exclusivity (though not b/f,g/f) and during our time together she has been incredibly attentive, nurturing and doting. She doesn't nag, and she's not materialistic. Things are good inside and outside the bedroom, and I've been very happy with this one up to now. She treats her family well, she treats me well and makes me feel like a man. I've kept my game tight with her and I haven't been needy, desperate, or weak.

But, there's a problem.

She's been traveling alone on a trip to Europe for the last few weeks, and this week she's going to stay at a male friend's apartment for 7 days in Paris. I don't know the exact nature of their past relationship, but I know he doesn't have a girlfriend now. She also mentioned previously time that this friend likes to party.

I think I can chime in because it happened to me as well (with more than one girl). Ironically, she was Mexican as well.

(09-16-2018 06:08 PM)arafat scarf Wrote: The thing is, she hasn't tried to hide anything about staying with this guy. The trip was planned many months ago and she had told me that she was intending to stay with him when we first started seeing each other. There's nothing underhanded or particularly sneaky happening below the surface.

That doesn't matter. Remember the First Commandment- never listen to a woman, look at what she does. She may not have an intention but the damn thing about humans is that the opportunity makes a thief. Uniformly, those guys intend to fuck the girl (if they hadn't already). There's a clear reason why she can stay at his for a week. He may not have verbalised (in my case, the girl knew the guy fancied her for years) he has romantic interest in her but trust me - things don't happen for no reason and if she was ugly, she wouldn't have been invited).

He will have full seven days to work his magic. Humans are weak - especially under influence. She'll be ovulating, have a few drinks, a joint, and it will "just happen". She'll have an excuse, regardless if she tells you or not, that "I was drunk, I didn't plan it". Even worse, women cunning as they can be, she may engineer a pretext - you guys will have a call that will end up really sour so she'd have something to blame you on. You won't sleep peacefully that night.

Strangely, a baby that will pop out of her belly will look somewhat French (OK, that's a bit extreme scenario but not impossible and as the Heartiste saying goes, alpha fux, beta bux...) and you should manoeuvre your romantic life so as to have as little doubt as possible.

(09-16-2018 06:08 PM)arafat scarf Wrote: Yet it still doesn't feel right and last Thursday I told her that I didn't like the situation, that she was crossing a line, and that I would have expected that she was going to change plans given how things are going between us. I didn't lose my cool, but I told her sternly.

It doesn't feel right for good reasons - it doesn't feel right in your gut because a man's role for millennia was to protect and guard a female from other males, not to hand her in to them on a silver platter. If she's "yours", she shouldn't be in a position to act favourably upon requests from men who intend fucking her (she's adult, she knows he wants to fuck her.)

The liberalised times fucked up and distorted relationships in respect with what should and shouldn't be allowed. A Saudi woman wouldn't even entertain a thought to verbalise such a decision for fear of ending in a hospital with multiple fractures. A Saudi man, if he were to learn about your tribulations that his woman is about to sleep in another's man house in Paris, would laugh in your face and if she actually dared to say it, she would not be allowed to return. End of story.

(09-16-2018 06:08 PM)arafat scarf Wrote: She insisted the guy's only a friend, that nothing will happen because that's not what she wants, that she only wants to be with me. She also mentioned that she would have already cheated already on the trip if something was going to happen, that she's had opportunities. She then offered to not stay with him and find a hostel; that as a couple we need to 'treat each other's hearts well'. But I said to go ahead and stay with him and that things will be stronger between us if she comes back and we're together again.

Yup, same story, same drivel. How many times we've all heard (I told you - never listen to a woman) we're "the one and only man in her heart", we're "special", we're "true love", just to have her suck another guy's dick weeks or months later and you will never see or hear from her again. They are, for better or wrose, emotionally driven creatures. Read that sentence again. Women are, above all, driven by what they feel like. Never ever give a woman a chance to stray as long as you have someone pointing a loaded Glock 19 to your temple.

What I did with the Mexican, I kept rationally arguing (a mistake - never try to talk a girl rationally out of something) and she would keep pushing my buttons (they all know what they do and they love it, even if denying), at some point I just had enough, and left the table without a word. I think that wasn't the best but better than coyly agreeing with her - it only would establish a precedence that I'm weak and for the pussy willing to jeopardise so much of my wellbeing, including raising someone else's kid (think again - you won't sleep well for a week thinking what is she doing with him and possible ramifications of it). After mulling things over, the girl didn't go down to England to stay with her "long-time male friend", and admitted it wasn't right. However, the damage was done and the dynamics changed between us. A woman who truly is into you (or she says so - though, remember never listen to a woman, this rule applies at all times), wouldn't entertain an idea in the first place. It's a red flag, nonetheless, I'm afraid. Also, consider a fact which tells a lot - does she have more male or female friends (if the former, that's a bad, bad news - consider yourself warned). Throw her out the door, if she stays with him. It takes a man to do that but I'd rather do that than be a pussy. Paradoxically, in my opinion, she won't respect you for letting her do that and, inevitably, sooner or later, she will break up with you. Then again, if it's just sportfucking, you can just as well shrug your shoulders and let her do whatever she pleases to do, but I reply to you on the assumption, if interpreted correctly, that this girl matters to you a lot.

There are three actionable things you can do which, in my opinion, are worth executing:

Option A

Sometimes the best way to defend yourself is to attack. It's not a very masculine tactic but I told you - never rationally reason with a woman. Tell her that what she's planning to do hurts you. You thought she was special, but she would be acting like a god damn whore (she'll get, as Mexican girls do, livid. Oh boy, she'll get livid and vehemently deny she's a whore). Well, it's all semantics. You hope she's not, and she wouldn't act like one. It's up to her if she wants to hurt you or not. If she keeps insisting and goes with the flow and values her "male friend" more than you, she told you that she, in fact, doesn't give damn about you. You saved yourself time and energy investing in a wrong girl.

Option B

She's Mexican. Bring out a part of true Machismo. She understands it to a tee. She's Mexican. Your pride and dick can't allow for that. Put your foot down, draw red line, either my way or the highway. Tell her in no uncertain terms, that if she goes and stays with him, it's over. You truly, if you go with this option, need to think what you say and act congruently. It's a tough option.

Option C

Just book a hotel for her. If you can't, tell her you did (often anyway you can cancel without incurring costs). This may smell a bit providesque but still better thing than just letting her do what she wants. Better yet, if you have time, why not, as Dalaran1991 suggests, join her in Europe for some time, if you can? Her reaction will tell you a lot. You'll know what to do by the way she reacts.

I think, I would go with an option C. If her reaction was dismissive, follow up with option B.

(09-16-2018 06:08 PM)arafat scarf Wrote: Of course, I don't really believe that. I said it because I didn't want to restrict her. And I don't... I want her to make good decisions on her own, at least as far as major matters like this are concerned.

I know how these girls are and my expectations are pretty low. Yet I'm still disappointed with the outcome of this one. I'm upset with the situation, upset with her judgment, and upset with myself for letting it come to this point. But getting upset doesn't change anything, and I feel the best thing to do is to start phasing her out. Aside from this incident, she's been great and this has been really the only thing wrong she's done.

Think of a woman like a kid, whom you need to teach, then it will become so much better - a woman (in a relationship) needs proper boundary. She needs to understand what in your book is allowed or not. As long as the boundaries are reasonable, congruent and consistently enforced, she'll feel safe. She's testing this boundaries big time (which, in a way is good - she's testing your mettle because she's quite likely into you in a serious way but still not sure) and it is up to you to make up your mind - do you want to keep it serious with her or not? Only you know the answer (however, in the ideal world, as mentioned before, she should have never ever entertained the idea, she's not stupid 14 years old and knows the dick is on offer and you know she knows that you know.

(09-16-2018 06:08 PM)arafat scarf Wrote: She'll be tough to lose, but I just don't see a way back.

If I permit the situation, there's no way I can respect myself for letting my girl crash at another dude's house for a week. If I don't permit the situation and strongly communicate that her behavior is unacceptable, the dynamic shifts to me as the possessive one putting restrictions on her and I'm made to look like a simp. And then no matter the case, I won't be able respect her for thinking that it's alright to sleep over at another guy 'friend's' house for a week when we're together.

Live and learn.

You've got, in my opinion, nothing to lose to try out options A, B, and/or C. At least you'll learn something. Phasing things out quietly is not a true man's way. It's a girl's way to go about things passively and indirectly. I believe you should confront the issue (I think you already did but no specific resolution was met) heads on and get a clear answer: yes or no, and nothing in between.

You say that "the dynamic shifts to me as the possessive one putting restrictions on her and I'm made to look like a simp." Precisely. I was accused of being jealous, just like you envision. I tried to spin it around and be nonchalant and that's what I did but, honestly, If I didn't care, would I put the issue on the table? No. Don't make my mistake and be fully congruent. OWN your (reasonable) jealousy (it's a different story to call your girl every 5 minutes every time she goes to get groceries in fear she fucks a cashier and a different to agree with her to stay many nights over at another man's house abroad). Just be proud of it, and if she accuses you, look straight in her eyes, and say calmly that, yes, you're jealous and won't entertain her capricious demands and if she really wants to hurt you, it's up to her but it's over. Be calm, don't raise your voice, don't play into her game, accept the worst resolution - if you're mentally fine with it, you come out stronger, whatever she chooses. I think your intuition is correct and your guts know what to do but all this liberal western feminism occluded your mind.

After the confrontation you'll have soap opera drama and probably a big emotional fit of hers, exploding like fierce fireworks on a New Year's eve. Don't get manipulated and sit it out. I repeat, sit it out. Don't message her, don't call her, don't seek her out. It'll be a turning point. If she persists and decides to stay at his, she's never been your girl and you're saving yourself major headaches down the road. It's hard, but the only way is to end it. However, if she comes to you, agrees with you it was a bad idea and stays on her own then, my friend, she really cares about you and you're in the drivers seat and experience the best sex of your life thereafter...

Until a new big test a few years later comes along like a freewheeling cart full of safety pin released grenades and, as they usually do, in the least expected moment and when you'll be on the down low.* But this time, you'll be ready.

* I sound cynical but the nature, drilled down, over millennia of evolution, into females' primitive brain stem structures that it is necessary to ceaselessly test a males survival and reproductive potential. It's a rare find, a true gem of a female that would help out the browbeaten man but don't expect it until you teach a woman good behaviours.

the.king · 09-18-2018 05:52 AM

(09-16-2018 06:08 PM)arafat scarf Wrote: She's been traveling alone on a trip to Europe for the last few weeks, and this week she's going to stay at a male friend's apartment for 7 days in Paris. I don't know the exact nature of their past relationship, but I know he doesn't have a girlfriend now. She also mentioned previously time that this friend likes to party.

She is probably testing you (combination of testing you + convenience of not having to pay for rent).

Personally I'd give her an ultimatum - you stay with another man for 7 days and we're done.

If you want to save face after already agreeing, let her do it, then break up with her afterwards and let her beg you to take her back.

There is not a single woman on the planet who doesn't get a thought pop up in her head that there's a chance of having sex with a man if they are alone in his bedroom, and its therefore not okay to stay with him (source: there are thousands of 'creepy' men who cannot get a single woman within 1 km radius of their apartments).

ksbms · 09-18-2018 06:30 AM

(09-18-2018 05:52 AM)the.king Wrote:
(09-16-2018 06:08 PM)arafat scarf Wrote: She's been traveling alone on a trip to Europe for the last few weeks, and this week she's going to stay at a male friend's apartment for 7 days in Paris. I don't know the exact nature of their past relationship, but I know he doesn't have a girlfriend now. She also mentioned previously time that this friend likes to party.

She is probably testing you (combination of testing you + convenience of not having to pay for rent).

Personally I'd give her an ultimatum - you stay with another man for 7 days and we're done.

If you want to save face after already agreeing, let her do it, then break up with her afterwards and let her beg you to take her back.

That's a self-defeating proposition. Breaking up with her would even push her faster and harder into another man's arms. Then, taking her back would be even a more disastrous decision.

Noir · 09-18-2018 08:10 AM

@ksbms

Liberal bullshit? Get the fuck out of here.

My point is that it's probably not that big of a deal as arafat thinks and him overreacting makes this worse. Literally, an overreaction makes it worse. He's framed it as if she is intending on cheating. You can decide for yourself, as to whether you think she would or wouldn't.

Most women wouldn't bring him up to begin with, if they intended on fucking him.

The ones who bring them up are wanting attention and to stay on your mind while they are away.

She already made the decision to go and stay with this guy so the mistake/weakness has already been detected by her. My point is to basically remove yourself from the situation which won't change regardless and focus on yourself while observing her behaviour post-act.

She decided to stay with another guy. It's done. You can't come back from that or change her mind. If she strays she strays. If you believe she doesn't and she is worth keeping, then make your own judgment.

My point is that experience dictates that it's less likely that she will fuck him. Is it impossible? NO. Hell, she could have fucked a whole bunch of other guys elsewhere.

Humans are humans. Regardless of whatever alpha-macho micromanaging ultimatum suggestions you are dropping.

You then give the example of Saudis. LOL.

There's gotta be some give and take here. It's simple. Arafat Scarf has already planted the seed that she may intend on cheating. There's no undoing that. Any guy who has felt this, knows it. Deal with your response instead of what she does.

Women come and go but your reactions today will make who you are years down the line and you owe it to yourself.

Any reaction here is weak. The point I initially made, and stand by, is nothing changes at this stage so just chill and observe and make a judgment based off her behaviour which will tell you more than any assumptions/conclusions you jump to.

And I somewhat agree with Dalaran. If it wasn't clear in my OP above, the damage is already done.

Too many women out there to warrant worrying over a girl who is behaving this way, 6 months down the line.

If you really care about yourself then be stoic and suss her out when she is back. Otherwise, go find another woman and make sure such thoughts don't cross her mind.

Option A and B ignore female nature. Every woman will simply dig her heels in and stick to her guns. Pushes her to him. So what's the point, let the shit ride and fuck some other chick then.

Option C, that's desperate AF. You gonna 'reward' the disrespect with doubling down on your pleads to get her to not fuck this guy? That's some simp shit.

If OP was really hot shit, he would have told her to go sit on his dick and to fuck off. Simple. No back and forth.

I don't get why guys are so damn reactive on here and fail to see that this is a massive shit test for YOU.

You're getting a free character test here (FREE INFORMATION ON WHO THE FUCK SHE REALLY IS) and all you cats wanna jump in and micromanage the interaction to assuage your egos and ensure you can get the best possible outcome.

Am I the only one who wants to see what bitches are made of when they think no one is watching?

If she's gonna cheat, she's gonna cheat, might as well be now. You're telling this guy to spend money and to do 23423 steps to perhaps prevent it??

I say let her fucking cheat, don't fuck with the flow. See what's up and then you know if you move the fuck on or not. If she really is a ho and it just took some time for it to come out. You're at this point already.

Like I said, avoiding this is what the perfect scenario would be but you're past that.

There's no best possible outcome, only the outcome that's destined based off your actions last week, last month, last year. Now you bear the fruit of those actions.

HENCE. Chill the fuck out and let the chips fall where they lie. Women are stubborn.

Go fuck some other broad and take your mind off her, if you feel like you need to.

You boys are harping on (ksbms) about what is ideal. Ideal was 3 months ago before she decided to stay at some other guy's place. Wake the fuck up and see what IS and deal within the paradigm of reality. Angel

But that's some liberal shit I suppose, smh.

It doesn't come down to the guy's intentions, it comes down to her moral compass which we all don't know shit about.

I know for a fact that I have tried to fuck every single girl that stayed over at my place and I am sure every other man did the same.

the.king · 09-18-2018 09:34 AM

(09-18-2018 06:30 AM)ksbms Wrote: Breaking up with her would even push her faster and harder into another man's arms. Then, taking her back would be even a more disastrous decision.

I have never seen a better demonstration of higher value in my life than to break up with a woman. There is no better way to communicate to a woman I'm higher value than you than to break up with her (from a position of strength, ie when she does not want to break up with you).

(09-18-2018 06:30 AM)ksbms Wrote: taking her back would be even a more disastrous decision.

Generally speaking yes. In this specific case if done correctly no in my humble opinion.

~~Jefferson~~ · 09-18-2018 10:06 AM

Hey Arafat scarf.

I think your sentiments are noble, 'give them a long leash and let her make her own decision'. However, we both know that opportunity is the mother of deceit.

As Noir rightly said, every guy is likely to hit on a girl who sleeps in his place, and a girl, if in that position is likely to have some fun 'cause girls want to have fun.

But how would you know if that actually happened? What I don't understand is that the girl offered to go to a hostel. Yes, she may have been bluffing but you could have taken her up on it. Maybe it would have made you look weak for a few weeks, but you could have recovered from that. You can't recover from an out an out betrayal, if it were to happen, so why let her stay there? I feel bad for you because you clearly liked this girl a lot. It speaks volume about your deep understanding of rel dynamics that you are intent to keep the upper hand in the relationship, but perhaps this loss could have been avoided.

Dalaran1991 · 09-18-2018 10:46 AM

You can argue this situation back and forth, it doesn't change the fact that we're running damage control on a sunken ship rather than simply fixing a sail.

I agree with Noir that sometimes the girl means well, but since when women's good intention counts for anything? In my story the girl called her boyfriend immediately to tell him that she kissed another guy and she felt bad about it etc. Maybe she didn't mean it, knowing her for a long time. Did she do it? Yes? Does her apologizing makes it better? Fuck no. Should you keep seeing her? That's for you to decide.

Like I said, this is one of the stickiest situations that can arise in a relationship. It signals that the girl already has the wrong mindset, your frame is off, or she's just not that into you.
The lighter version of this is "would you be jealous if I talk to other guys?" asked to me by a girl who was truly madly deeply in love with me. Didn't end well.
The next step from this is "would you be ok if I see other people?"

I say it again, the idea that a girl in a relationship spending a long amount of time alone with another male should not even exist in a girl who is worth keeping.
Are you invested in her emotionally and the idea that she might or might not have cheated on you, and the fact that you might never know, keep you awake at night?
Do you just enjoy her company and want regular pussy without being too attached to her?
If she does cheat on you and beg for forgiveness do you think people deserve second chances?

The answer to those questions determine how much you can let a girl get away with, and how much you can get away with. And from experience I'd say it's not easy to answer.

EDIT: Fuck this, she's going to Paris right? I've involuntarily slept with so many girls who had a boyfriend without me knowing, I was wondering if this is just a thing people do in this city. Let her go for peace of mind.

arafat scarf · 09-18-2018 12:57 PM

Hey guys, there's been some great advice and insight. Glad we've got a good discussion going. This has been a tough situation for me to navigate. Many things for me to consider from all your comments. Long post incoming w/ TL;DR after the bolded part at the bottom.

---

The consensus is that she crossed a line and that this behavior is foul. So how do you express your displeasure and to what extent when a girl crosses that kind of boundary? I'm seeing a general strain of responses.

Do you make a direct disapproving remark and let it ride from there? (Me)

Do you say nothing at all, let things unfold and let her character reveal itself? (Noir)

Do you take the heavy hand with standards and ultimatums and announce that her behavior is totally unacceptable? (Phinaes)

Do you try to discourage the situation in some way? (ksbms)

Or do you just drop her completely? (the.king)

I still don't know.

Overreacting and issuing ultimatums doesn't seem like the best way. It also doesn't jive with the light, fun dynamic I want to create with my lovers. On the other hand, not saying anything seems submissive and passive-agressive. The bitch knows she's poking the bear!

Like I mentioned, The way I decided to handle it since last week was to tell her during one of our video chats that I don't like the situation - that it crosses a line for me. When she offered to find other accomodation, I told her that option wasn't good because I know it'll make her resentful. I said the position she put me in isn't a good one, but that I'd prefer she stay with him and that we'll wait and see: I'll just be optimistic that everything turns out well between us. She tried to explain some more, and I cut her off telling her that no words would convince me that the situation wasn't questionable.

And here we are this week, and the reality is that as I write, my girl is crashing in some other guy's pad.

Since that moment when I expressed my disapproval, I've been sparse in my communications with her. No continuous dialogue, no affection, just tritely positive 'Have fun!' type messages or a photo once every 2-3 days. She'd ask questions about the photos and what I was up to but I've been blowing them off.

Yesterday, the day after her arrival to Paris, I sent her a series of playful messages. First I told her not to eat all the French pastries. Second I told her that she shouldn't spend all her money on Nutella crepes. Then I joked that she shouldn't have too much 'boomboom' with her roomie. Warning her against having too much 'boomboom' even had me laughing about the situation...

We got on a chat later, and she was unnerved and started asking if what I said was a joke. I told her to relax, I was just having a good time and that I wanted to use the word 'boomboom' in a sentence. She got somewhat serious and she insisted that she only wants me, so on and so forth. I told her okay I hear you, no more jokes lets be very serious now. I didn't apologize, but I did concede that if she doesn't like those kinds of jokes I won't make them. I changed the subject to something else playful and kept the chat light and fun. Basically gave her the loose, fun player vibe though inside I felt heavy.

She's staying in her own room and the other dude is across the hall. Like Noir said, if her intentions are bad, she likely wouldn't have mentioned anything about staying with the guy - she would've probably lied before and she would be lying now. My gut instinct has me believing that there's nothing in play here and that she's really just staying with a guy who she's already friend-zoned. Of course, I could be wrong, but this is the situation as it appears to me.

And yeah, I'm sure this guy wants to get it in. And after a night of booze, fun, and charm she might let him. I'm not naive to that reality.

As it stands now, I've been getting more lovey text messages after yesterday's series of events and chat. She messaged me in the middle of the night Paris time that she couldnt sleep and was thinking about me. I chatted a little bit then said I was busy with my project, and told her to get some sleep. I don't want to cut her off. Like I said, I have genuine affection for this one.

But this situation has to be addressed so based on the circumstances and based on your valuable comments and feedback here's what seems best to do :

For now and going forward I'll be distantly positive and playful. Maybe the occasional gesture of affection if I feel like it, but I'm tilting calculating and cold on the inside.

I won't make a scene or bring up the topic.

When we see each other again, I'll mention that I'm meeting a lot of people and I'll get around to talking up the girls. I'll put more emphasis on the girls and talk about the cool/interesting things they do. Then I'll talk at some length of their charming features/details/quirks. This won't be faked...I'm going to be meeting new girls.

At some point in another conversation, I'll bring up the fact that her staying with that guy still doesn't sit right, and that if she likes to do things like stay at guys' houses or if I get a feeling that something in the winds are changing for her then I'll instinctively go back to 'a more natural state of having fun with people who come into our lives'.

I think she'll get the picture.

And if she pulls any kind of suspicious shit again, I'll make good on it and run around on her like a track athlete.

Edited: And thanks for the support and advice guys. A lot of wisdom here.

kaotic · 09-18-2018 03:28 PM

Guys lets pull this back a little.

Some thoughts:

-Girls use guys ALL the time for free shit, free rides, free places to stay - and they don't bang them. Flipside is if the guy has game and money and she's stopping on bye, then yeah, very possible scenario.

-Arafat, you're on the losing end of this relationship (even though it's not official). 7 months isn't "just" and exclusivity type thing, you guys are BF and GF an almost in an LTR at this point.

-Many have joked that a woman in a relationship going solo on a month long trip to Europe is a kiss of death in a relationship.

Quote:She also mentioned that she would have already cheated already on the trip if something was going to happen, that she's had opportunities.

-Pretty ballsy comment on her part - obviously she's been at least approached or had moves made on her. There are situations she's obviously put her relationship at risk.

-Squeezing your grip on her will make her slip through your fingers. Controlling ALWAYS does the opposite of you intend.

-Not giving a shit and being stoic about always has the opposite intentions with girls, as in they'll react emotionally and be worried about what you think (having great frame and game is a great way to put dread game in her head)

-She should be worried about what YOU'RE doing while she's gone, she should calling you, facetiming you, double texting you, and getting pissed you aren't responding ASAP.

-Arafat that boom boom comment was a dumb way to send your displeasure to her, and they you had throttle back and counter it with a dumber excuse to use the word boom boom.

Overall:

All you can do at this point is wait and see - BUT you should be going out and gaming other girls to get your mind of it and get your head right.

You've also already assumed the sale that another guy is fucking her, that's also a kiss of a death in relationship, it means your trust with her is gone. You'll start thinking about her infidelity when she goes other places. It'll eat away at you if you can't control it.

Quote:When we see each other again, I'll mention that I'm meeting a lot of people and I'll get around to talking up the girls. I'll put more emphasis on the girls and talk about the cool/interesting things they do. Then I'll talk at some length of their charming features/details/quirks.

This is dumb, this is petty. More poison that will infect your thought process.

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.

Do, don't say, especially when it comes to gaming or flirting with other girls.

Quote:At some point in another conversation, I'll bring up the fact that her staying with that guy still doesn't sit right, and that if she likes to do things like stay at guys' houses or if I get a feeling that something in the winds are changing for her then I'll instinctively go back to 'a more natural state of having fun with people who come into our lives'.

Once again, dumb, more petty and more poison.

You're acting like a catty female and bring up old shit to use for ammunition in a new argument, that's not what a man does.

You're threatening her that you'll go back to being a player, another ultimatum.

If you're doing to do all of this, don't, just dump her instead and save the energy and drama dude.

arafat scarf · 09-18-2018 04:39 PM

Hey kaotic. I appreciate critical feedback.

Quote:-Pretty ballsy comment on her part - obviously she's been at least approached or had moves made on her. There are situations she's obviously put her relationship at risk.

Yeah, I agree... But I know the reality is that these girls get offers all the time. And it didn't bother me in that context that she acknowledged it. I didn't get the impression that she was rubbing anything in my face. Girl game recognized.

Quote:-Squeezing your grip on her will make her slip through your fingers. Controlling ALWAYS does the opposite of you intend.

-Not giving a shit and being stoic about always has the opposite intentions with girls, as in they'll react emotionally and be worried about what you think (having great frame and game is a great way to put dread game in her head)

-She should be worried about what YOU'RE doing while she's gone, she should calling you, facetiming you, double texting you, and getting pissed you aren't responding ASAP.

You may disagree, but I don't think I've been squeezing the grip all that tightly.

I mentioned once to her last week that I didn't like the situation, she tried to justify, and then I changed the topic and haven't brought it up since. For now, I'm keeping communications distant, infrequent, loose, light, and playful. I write here with a heavier heart, but not to her and I don't intend to lose my frame as the fun, adventurous guy.

Agreed that she should be worried about what I'm doing and I believe she is.

If I send her a message, she sends 2 - 5 enthusiastic ones back. She's a latina, so she shamelessly 'double texts'. I don't question her adoration, I question her judgment and am lamenting a situation where it's difficult to salvage respect.

Quote:-Arafat that boom boom comment was a dumb way to send your displeasure to her, and they you had throttle back and counter it with a dumber excuse to use the word boom boom.

Maybe, but context is key. I was sending some playful messages, and that one was the last one. I truly found the comment amusing, and I laughed after sending it off. I also think the comment trivializes a possible affair -- that for me, what she might do is just 'boomboom'... but I see your perspective for thinking it was a bad idea.

She seemed unnerved by it, she wanted to reassure me that I was the only one, but I told her to relax and ended up teasing her for not being able to take a joke.

Quote:Overall:

All you can do at this point is wait and see - BUT you should be going out and gaming other girls to get your mind of it and get your head right.

You've also already assumed the sale that another guy is fucking her, that's also a kiss of a death in relationship, it means your trust with her is gone. You'll start thinking about her infidelity when she goes other places. It'll eat away at you if you can't control it.

I haven't assumed anything.

In fact, I don't think he's fucking her and I've mentioned that. But there's room for doubt and fertile ground for temptation and that what makes the situation is disrepectful -- which is one of the big issues for me here.

Agreed that I've got to redouble my efforts in getting some live options back.

Attractive girls have dudes orbiting around them generally, and I'm not gonna monitor everything. If she's always messaging, looking to get with me and treats me with adoration, then that's the best I can ask for.

Quote:This is dumb, this is petty. More poison that will infect your thought process.

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.

Do, don't say, especially when it comes to gaming or flirting with other girls.

I see your point, but why not both? If you truly do have other girls entering your life, then I see it fruitful in casually mentioning them and mentioning endearing things that you notice about them in the course of some future conversation. Especially in this case when a girl has stepped out of line.

Quote:Once again, dumb, more petty and more poison.

You're acting like a catty female and bring up old shit to use for ammunition in a new argument, that's not what a man does.

You're threatening her that you'll go back to being a player, another ultimatum.

If you're doing to do all of this, don't, just dump her instead and save the energy and drama dude.

'A man' can respond in a variety of ways: directly, indirectly, or silently. You seem to prefer the silent approach. In this case, I prefer to be indirect. I'd even say that being indirect -- getting your point across without explicitly saying it -- requires more competence. I suppose what matters is what's effective, and that's up for debate.

There seems to be merit in your overall point: that one shouldn't be letting a girl and her questionable behavior give me this amount of consternation.

I also don't see it as catty in suggesting/hinting that if she's not acting right that she risks getting phased out or downgraded. Sub-communicating that I adore her but that her behavior could change the dynamic and that I'll act on other options seems to me like a reasonable way to send a warning. It's not like I plan to say 'hey we need to talk' and start getting serious and heavy with her.

She's seen other girls flirt with me and knows I can make good on it. Even though I plan on maintaining a healthy distance, I'd like to keep her around in some way. I like this one, and for me it's not so simple as NEXT. I might end up taking a major 'L' here, but no matter what happens, I'll take it like a man.

Brutal feedback, good perspective, much appreciated.

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