Post: #176

(05-29-2013 07:30 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  Really? You're really worried every time you board a plane, train, or bus? Maybe your main concern should be getting into a wreck, because I can promise you that WAAAYYYY more people die every year in wrecks than terrorist attacks in the us. You know how many people in the US have died in terrorist attacks since 911? I don't remember the stat and I'm on my phone so I'm not gonna look it up, but pretty sure the number is below 100. How about a war on obesity? You know how many people die of obesity each year?! If you are really worried about a terrorist attack on your plane you're straight up paranoid.

Missed the point entirely.

Those type of terrorist attacks should be unacceptable. You sound like a terrorism apologist.

Post: #177

(05-29-2013 07:21 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 07:05 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  My question to you guys go think Muslims are extremist terrorists and the worst shit in the world, what percent of Muslims do you think are actually extremists? I think 5% would be a very liberal estimate. I work with mad Muslims and I can't think of one that's an asshole.

I'm not sitting here trying to say I think the Muslim religion is great, because I don't think any religion is. I just think so many people are ignorant about what it really is. Most Muslims don't want to murder Christians. If I was native to an area where the roles were reversed I would defend Christianity as well.

Problem is a small % percentage can cause a lot of havoc. See WTC bombers, 9/11 hijackers, Boston bombers, etc. I don't want to have to worry about getting bombed every time I go to a sporting event or board a plane, bus, train, etc. That type of shit should be unacceptable, and Muslim extremists (and any Muslims who support that kind of shit) need to be called out.

InternationPlayboy, you are right that the majority of Muslims are probably people that don't care for terrorism and the extremism. But Texas Prophet is right as well in that most global terrorist acts are committed by Muslims. What's the saying, "Not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims." Don't get me wrong, all religions have their crazies and have indulged in violent acts. The reason that Muslims get a lot of attention and dislike is that on a global scale there is only one religion that has committed and is continuously trying to commit acts of terror in multiple countries.

Just in the past few years, there have been Muslim terrorist attacks in the USA, UK, Russia, India, China and this isn't even counting the countless civil wars and attacks that Muslims are involved in the Middle East.

We have been very lucky in Canada to avoid an attack so far. We have had close brushes and just last month two Muslim men were arrested while plotting to blow up a few passenger trains. We also have a group of 18 Muslim men about 4-5 years ago in Toronto who were planning to blow up buildings in downtown Toronto.

Post: #178

I understand that terrorism isn't acceptable ad you're missing the point. Terrorism is horrible. I'm not saying anything about terrorism being ok. I'm saying nothing about being a Muslim is wrong. Way more people are killed from drunk driving than terrorist attacks, yet you aren't sitting there condemning drunk drivers.

Post: #179

(05-29-2013 07:37 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  I understand that terrorism isn't acceptable ad you're missing the point. I'm not saying anything about terrorism being ok. I'm saying nothing about being a Muslim is wrong. Way more people are killed from drunk driving than terrorist attacks, yet you aren't sitting there condemning drunk drivers.

Drunk drivers don't kill people to send a message.

Again, missed the point.

Post: #180

Dude, neither do almost all Muslims! That's the point! Most Muslims aren't out killing people

Post: #181

If you are saying Islam is a bad religion because of a small group of schmucks and should be eliminated, then by that logic, Christianity should have been eliminated back during the crusades.

Post: #182

(05-29-2013 07:42 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  Dude, neither do almost all Muslims! That's the point! Most Muslims aren't out killing people

You are purposefully being obtuse. I don't see the point in trying to convince you that I am only talking about Muslim extremists and their supports, not all Muslims. You are the one conflating the two. The acts of terrorism Muslim extremists commit are designed not just to kill but also to intimidate.

If you want to be an apologist for that or are too PC to see the truth, then that is on you.

Post: #183

Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I'm not saying anything about terrorism is ok. Those assholes deserve the harshest punishments. We both agree that terrorism and extremists aren't ok. No reason to be condescending. Alls I'm saying is terrorism in the Muslim community is the exception, not the rule.

Post: #184

The problem, InternationalPlayboy, is that it only takes a few to cause serious civil war.

Take, for example, the Woolwich execution or Boston Bombings. First you have a few fanatics that terrorize the non-Muslims. This then incites hated against ALL Muslims, including the peaceful ones. People then react by burning down Mosques, attacking Muslims, etc. Then peaceful Muslims are thrown into conflict whether they like it or not.

And the violent Muslims, although minorities amongst the Islamic population, will continue their violence until they succeed in generating as much hatred from the non-Islamic population as possible. Their goal is to generate hatred, and we will continue to see Islamic riots, beheadings, and bombings, until the local population hates Islam with all of their might.

At this point, the "peaceful" Muslims will have no choice but to fight back and defend themselves, and then they will be in the same group as "violent" Muslims. Thus there is no significant difference between "violent" and "peaceful" Muslims - they are both on the same team, and the violent Muslims will make sure the peaceful ones remember that.

Post: #185

I also think 5% is too high.

Muslims can be the most hospitable people in the world. They will take you in, feed you, make you feel like family. The vast majority are great people. I have many Muslim friends.

However, it's the Doctrine I have a problem with. The Boston bombers and the London beheaders were doing exactly what their holy books instructed them to do. There are many verses regarding slaying the infidels and slitting throats. Muhammed himself (who they are supposed to emulate) did these very same things, HUNDREDS OF TIMES.

The peaceful Muslims living next door are moderate in the sense that they choose not to carry out the Koran literally. I just wish they would speak out MORE and condemn these atrocities when they happen. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Post: #186

Post: #187

The issue is that Muslims have to believe that the Koran is the literal word of God. Christians for the most part evolved beyond thinking that the Bible is the literal word of God and pretty much take it metaphorically. The ones who don't, we call fundamentalists. By this definition, Islam requires Muslims to be fundamentalists. The Koran is the word of God and Muhammed is the most perfect man who ever lived and is an example to mankind, throughout the ages. Most of my Muslim friends, even the secular ones, CANNOT view Mohammed as a political and skilled warrior who acted as his times dictated, and raped and pillaged his way through the Middle East, spreading his religion. I've had friendships break up when I bought up example of Mohammed's pillaging and invasion of tribes that did him no harm, of requiring 20% of booty of the tribes his armies conquered, his appropriation of his son's beautiful wife and ascribing it to the will of God, of marrying a 6 year old girl, of ordering the killing of a female poet who created witty poems mocking him while she was nursing her babe, etc, etc...If Mohammed was the perfect man who is an example to the world and needs to be emulated across all ages and times, well, all his nefarious, murderous deeds are rationalized as correct and necessary.

It is a political and imperialistic relgion that was spread through the sword and trade and does seek domination over other religions. Even among the more enlightened members of my Muslim friends, they are unable to out and out denounce the various terror acts that have been occuring lately. There are always attempt to deflect, evade and deny, e.g. "911 was an inside job", "those Chechen boys were set up", "Hitler was a Christian, wasn't he?", "those Jews control everything". One of my most secular Muslim friend, a well educated Pakistani, admitted that even though he agreed with most of what I said he would NEVER voice these opinions in a roomful of ordinary, devout Muslims as eally the "righteous" Muslims tend to be the religious nuts and the "moderate" Muslims defer to their Islamic righteousness.

Muslims have a persecution complex, which is rich when considering how they persecute other groups in their lands, and have a strong sense of the "ummah" worldwide Muslim community. Of course, this solidarity is only expressed to outsiders. They hate one another otherwise.
Whenever I bring up the persection of the Copts in Egypt, or the Bahai in Iran or the Ahmadis in Pakistan, each one of my Muslim friends dismisses it with a shrug - they are OK with persecution as long as it's Muslims doing the persecuting. Woe betide if it's the other way around however! Can't wear burkas? Persecution!!!

I hope this constant global scrutiny of Islam will eventually force Muslims to clean up their house. Unlikely but one can hope.

Post: #188

What percentage of rapes do Muslim men commit in Europe by country?

Post: #189

(05-30-2013 01:52 AM)ghostdog Wrote:  What percentage of rapes do Muslim men commit in Europe by country?

By rapes, I assume you mean towards non-Muslims, since Muslimahs are expected to be available to their husbands 24/7 and they can only prove rape if they have 4 witnesses (as their religion dictates). Plus, many of these Muslim female rape victims will not want to come forward since they are so dependent on their husbands and most do not work.

As far as prison population, for ALL crimes, the rates are far out of proportion in all countries. For example, in Belgium they make up 45% of the jail population, even though they are only 4-5% of the general population. They have special requests, such as halal food (and no pork), frequently will not obey the female guards, require prayer mats and use of communal areas, etc. Also, there is chance of more radicalization while they are incarcerated, especially since many feel unfairly treated, since they are forced to follow another country's legal system, instead of their own Shariah.

Post: #190

(05-29-2013 08:43 PM)AFspecOps Wrote:  However, it's the Doctrine I have a problem with. The Boston bombers and the London beheaders were doing exactly what their holy books instructed them to do. There are many verses regarding slaying the infidels and slitting throats. Muhammed himself (who they are supposed to emulate) did these very same things, HUNDREDS OF TIMES.

The peaceful Muslims living next door are moderate in the sense that they choose not to carry out the Koran literally. I just wish they would speak out MORE and condemn these atrocities when they happen. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Spot on.

And Vronsky's whole post was the best post I've seen on the subject, so I'm not going to quote it all. However, I will give him a:



I too have had a friendship break apart because my questioning became too much for my Muslim friend to handle, and I couldn't take seeing him partake both in Taqiyya and Dawah in my presence.

Taqiyya is basically lying when it helps protect the religion and/or a Muslim from a non-believer. Dawah is spreading Islam (proselytizing). Often it felt as though he only hung out with me to try and convert me. And he was what many would call a moderate. He didn't drink, but he was a massive football fan etc.

Post: #191

(05-30-2013 03:05 AM)AFspecOps Wrote:  

(05-30-2013 01:52 AM)ghostdog Wrote:  What percentage of rapes do Muslim men commit in Europe by country?

By rapes, I assume you mean towards non-Muslims, since Muslimahs are expected to be available to their husbands 24/7 and they can only prove rape if they have 4 witnesses (as their religion dictates). Plus, many of these Muslim female rape victims will not want to come forward since they are so dependent on their husbands and most do not work.

As far as prison population, for ALL crimes, the rates are far out of proportion in all countries. For example, in Belgium they make up 45% of the jail population, even though they are only 4-5% of the general population. They have special requests, such as halal food (and no pork), frequently will not obey the female guards, require prayer mats and use of communal areas, etc. Also, there is chance of more radicalization while they are incarcerated, especially since many feel unfairly treated, since they are forced to follow another country's legal system, instead of their own Shariah.

hmm.. statistics only say how many rapes are committed by immigrants, so you have to look at countries of origin, their religions and estimate the odds of them being Muslim.

Post: #192

(05-30-2013 06:31 AM)ghostdog Wrote:  

(05-30-2013 03:05 AM)AFspecOps Wrote:  

(05-30-2013 01:52 AM)ghostdog Wrote:  What percentage of rapes do Muslim men commit in Europe by country?

By rapes, I assume you mean towards non-Muslims, since Muslimahs are expected to be available to their husbands 24/7 and they can only prove rape if they have 4 witnesses (as their religion dictates). Plus, many of these Muslim female rape victims will not want to come forward since they are so dependent on their husbands and most do not work.

As far as prison population, for ALL crimes, the rates are far out of proportion in all countries. For example, in Belgium they make up 45% of the jail population, even though they are only 4-5% of the general population. They have special requests, such as halal food (and no pork), frequently will not obey the female guards, require prayer mats and use of communal areas, etc. Also, there is chance of more radicalization while they are incarcerated, especially since many feel unfairly treated, since they are forced to follow another country's legal system, instead of their own Shariah.

hmm.. statistics only say how many rapes are committed by immigrants, so you have to look at countries of origin, their religions and estimate the odds of them being Muslim.

Not to mention the liberal police state ignores rapes committed by immigrants

Post: #193

I fucking love Pat Condell. If he's not bashing religion, he's bashing progressives. If he's not bashing one of them, he's bashing both of them at the same time:

Post: #194

Islam is supposed to be religion of peace, but the Jihadists and some devout muslims are giving it a bad name! Devout muslims want the whole world to be muslims, they don't want anybody to have the freedom of choice, they just want everybody to lead an Islamic lifestyle.

Now let's talk about Jihad. Jihad means "struggle/war against unbelievers". Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization and they've never given the infidels a chance, they blew up the world trade center and did lots of other terrible things. I'm certain Islam doesn't condone killing non-believers, when it's a war both party participate, but when you blow up WTC, how is the other party participating in that war? The problem lies with the New age Islamists/ Jihadists, who believe that by getting rid of infidels they will make it to heaven and get 70 hot whores ,live happily forever, without ever needing to work.

Saudi Arabia's Padshah (King) Abdullah is a big-time hypocrite. In Saudi, you can't screw women other than your own wife, and if you do you get punished. It's even worse when the chick gets caught after having pre-marital sex, she gets stoned to death. On the other hand the damn Padshah, he gets to enjoy his own harem of "Eastern European" and other exotic women.

Post: #195

(05-30-2013 03:22 PM)AlbertoDelMuerto Wrote:  Saudi Arabia's Padshah (King) Abdullah is a big-time hypocrite. In Saudi, you can't screw women other than your own wife, and if you do you get punished. On the other hand the damn Padshah, he gets to enjoy his own harem of "Eastern European" and other exotic women.

Not sure about that. Is this the king that is now being kept alive on machines?

Post: #196

No! Abdullah is healthy as fuck, he is 88 and has 34 children

Post: #197

Quote:Europe’s job crisis a smouldering fuse

A convent near my house in Rome runs a soup kitchen and I have casually watched its transformation over the years. The lineups are getting longer, the faces younger and more Italian. A few years ago, the customers of the good sisters seemed mostly out-of-work immigrants. No longer. The European jobs crisis is an equal-opportunity work killer.


As the jobless numbers rise, talk of a “lost generation” is no exaggeration. All the programs designed to create jobs as austerity grinds through economy after economy have backfired; their general uselessness has only been highlighted by the strong job growth in Canada and the United States. European labour deregulation, for example, was designed to make it easier to hire and fire. Instead, firing has utterly dominated the employers’ agendas.

In the euro zone, talk of the immediate collapse of the euro has stopped. In its place is talk of the dangers of rising unemployment and its ability to strangle economic recoveries and breed social unrest and political extremism.

“[German Chancellor Angela] Merkel and [Finance Minister Wolfgang] Schaeuble know very well that the future of the euro is not just decided in Brussels or Berlin but on the streets of Madrid, Athens and so on,” ING economist Carsten Brzeski said in a report last month. “High youth unemployment combined with hatred for Germany can turn into populism and nationalism quite quickly and, in the extreme case, lead to an end of the currency union.”

In response, European leaders are launching a war against unemployment, or say they are. Some of them hope the June 28-29 European Union summit will become the front line for the war. Dream on. At the summit, you can expect the usual blathering about labour reform, retraining funds and project bonds aimed at financing bridges and roads. Most of the proposals and initiatives will be unimaginative, inadequate or ignored. What is really needed is a program to get banks lending to small and medium-sized businesses again and the ability to start companies as cheaply and quickly as it is in Canada, the United States and Britain.

The 17-country euro zone is turning into an unemployment torture chamber. The jobless rate in the region rose to 12.2 per cent in April, the highest since such records began in 1995. That’s up from 12.1 per cent in March. The jobless rate in Spain and Greece is about 27 per cent and France has joined the double-digit club, with unemployment at 10.4 per cent.

The youth numbers are more shocking. Nearly one in four 16- to 24-year-olds is out of work; the youth jobless rate in Spain and Greece is an astonishing 60 per cent, in Italy about 40 per cent. “Youth joblessness at these levels risks permanently entrenched unemployment, lowering the rate of sustainable growth in the future,” economist Tom Rogers, an adviser to Ernst & Young, said in a jobs note in late May.

The figures may be exaggerated somewhat. Official Eurostat figures exclude students from the work force, which makes the percentage of workers who are unemployed look bigger than it actually it. Some of those listed as unemployed may be pulling in a few euros in the black, or untaxed, economy, which is vast in countries such as Italy. Still, there is no doubt that European unemployment has reached brutal dimensions. What’s worse, it’s still going up.

The International Monetary Fund, the European Commission and national governments have consistently underestimated the euro zone’s job-shredding ability. When it became painfully apparent about a year-and-a-half ago that job destruction, not debt accumulation, was the biggest threat to political stability and economic revival, politicians duly went into hypocrite mode, promising growth initiatives while doing little about it.

French President François Hollande is a case in point. “Hollande had no sooner declared war on youth unemployment than he was dismissing European Commission calls for necessary reforms in France,” Niall Ferguson and Pierpaolo Barbieri wrote this week The New York Times. “These included lowering employers’ social security contributions, reversing last year’s hike in the minimum wage and reforming the unemployment benefit system ‘to ensure adequate incentives to work.’”

Meanwhile, the one area with the greatest potential to stimulate job creation – bank lending to businesses – is apparently going nowhere fast. Many banks remain under-capitalized. The touted European banking union would see the creation of a bank resolution fund, bank recapitalization formulas and common deposit insurance. The upshot is a lending split between northern and southern Europe that is crippling employers in the south, who are paying, relatively speaking, monstrous rates for bank loans. Perfectly good businesses are dying because they can’t get credit, not because their products are duds.

Europe has to make it easier to start businesses if job creation is to pick up momentum. Note that Britain’s unemployment rate is 7.8 per cent. How can that be? Britain has a plowman’s lunch of problems – gaping budget deficits, rising debt, high inflation, a housing shortage, de-industrialization. But what it also has is flexible labour laws and the ability to start a company at minimal cost with minimal paperwork. The same exercise in, say, Italy, can take years and dozens of permits in what is effectively a bureaucratic shake-down racket.

So when European leaders talk about the new war on unemployment, don’t take them seriously. The most effective solutions are the ones being ignored or played down. Unemployment will keep rising. Then the unemployed in the worst-hit countries will take to the streets.

In the past many of the young Europeans would come to Canada or America for work. But in the globalized world of 2013, they'll have to compete with Indians, Chinese, Nigerians, Brazilians, Ghanians, Lebanese.

The whole demographic change in Europe conversation will become moot since Southern Europe will simply stagnate its way into irrelevance. Northern Europe will stay afloat and developed, but the whole continent will no longer have the global influence it once had. The world will continually look to Asia (sans Japan), and the Americas for ideas and opportunities.

Young Europeans best bet is to look at Latin America where they still seem to accept European immigration without too much hassle.

Post: #198

[quote='DjembaDjemba' pid='465523' dateline='1370797022']

Quote:[size=large][b]
Young Europeans best bet is to look at Latin America where they still seem to accept European immigration without too much hassle.

And that is what is happening right now. Link

Is is not the same levels of the late XIV, early XX Century, but there is a surge of Europeans migrating to South and Central America right now.

Post: #199

This thread makes me laugh. Everything that is said about Muslims right now is no different from what Americans said about Catholics in the 19th and early 20th century.

"They'll outbreed us! Because of that bible verse about going forth and multiplying!"

"They'll force the authority of the Vatican onto our democracy!"

"They're incompatible with our culture!"

"They're lazy scum who are polluting the streets with their beggary and criminal ways"

"They'll steal our women with their swarthy Roman ways!"

Hell, the second Ku Klux Klan gained its millions strong strength by bashing the Catholics as hard as they did the Negros. Even in 1960 whatever, fucking JFK had to publicly apologize and grovel for being a Catholic.

Y'know what happened? Their kids and grand-kids assimilated into the culture, the birth rates dropped due to economic realities, and the Catholics are now respected members of the community.

Those who repeat history are doomed to repeat it they say. How many more ethnic fascist movements do we need?

Post: #200

Your analogy is bad.

The analogy between Catholics and Prostatants is akin to Sunni and Shia Muslims.

Christianity is to Islam as to what Democracy is to Fascism.