Post: #26

(05-19-2013 04:21 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  Most of my friends say the same time: the fun really begins in the 3rd and 4th year. This is why most people drop out of engineering, they can't stick with the bad shit to get to the good shit. Ironic, since it's quite similar to most things the vast majority of people do (can't stick with working out or eating good to enjoy the benefits later)

Very true.

(05-19-2013 04:21 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  - Top schools for players: If I had to choose: Arizona State, UC Santa Barbara, UCLA. All three have respected electrical engineering departments (and I imagine engineering colleges in general) + super hot chicks from what I know.

- Top schools in general: MIT, Berkeley, CalTech, UIUC, GTech, Purdue, UMich, Stanford (the top engineering schools in the country), Ivy Leagues (usually not considered for their engineering, but Cornell, Princeton, UPenn are investing heavily + mad connections).

- Top schools cost-wise: whatever the best state school is for engineering for you. That could be Purdue, UMich, UIUC which is great reputation wise as well, or it could be Iowa State University.

All very good schools. But this is by no means a comprehensive list. There's tons of great engineering schools in the US and abroad. Many state schools have strong eng'r programs too, and are great value for the money.

(05-19-2013 04:21 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  - Final word of caution: be open-minded about careers. Very few engineers I know stick with their job. The reason: they're not good engineers and they hate it (they also hated doing engineering in school). However these kids do end up going into finance, consulting, law, other random shit, etc. I hear med schools love engineers, especially electrical engineers as they have knowledge of electrical circuits (fun fact: the heart and brain can both be simulated as an electrical circuit, the brain is a bit more complex, but kids in some intro circuit lab courses learn how to simulate the output of a heart).

Good advice, like you said many engineers end up succeeding in other fields. But in truth a majority of the engineers I graduated with did stick with their field, probably around 60%.

Post: #27

Consulting/Freelance and Location Independant Work for Engineers

Very high $ potential here. Hourly rates for private engineering consultants in my field are typically over $70/hr, and can easily go over $200 for guys with solid experience.

But the work isn't guaranteed. If you're gonna work on your own and not for an employer, you need to be in a position where you can afford to go a few months without work and not go under.

I know of two good methods to get consistent work:

1) Have a broad base of customers with smaller contracts. Start networking early! Always be pushing for work, even small contracts, to get your foot in the door. You need to think like a salesman as much as an engineer - always be increasing the scope of the work. They want a set of CAD design drawings? Ask them if they want as-mades as well. They want a computer program debugged? Pitch them on a potential improvement to the program. They want some surveying done? Tell them you'll plot the coordinates on GIS for them.

2) The other way to go is to do most of your work for one large company that always has lots of work. Say BP for MechE's, Bayer for ChemE's, GE for Electrical guys, etc. Get tied in with their senior management, and they'll keep feeding you work consistently. I know one guy who made a career off of this. He worked for GM for years, then quit to do consulting. They feed him several contracts a year and he makes bank. Has a house in California, another in Colorado, and vacations across Europe for two months every year. He goes where the work is - may spend a month on a project in Holland, four months in Boston, half a year in Qatar. Pretty cool lifestyle.

Be pushy and always be on the lookout for potential customers. Remember, giving a quote isn't enough, you need to follow up and get a signed contract.

Do good enough work and eventually you may start getting no-bid contracts. That's the key - your reputation is everything - make sure your work is quality all the time. Which is also why I wouldn't encourage most new graduates to try and work on their own immediately. There's no shortcuts in engineering. You need to put in the time and learn from people with more experience than you, and build contacts in your industry. Then you can go your own way if you so choose.

I've also done freelance work for companies I used to work for full time. This type of work isn't published in monster.com, you need to go out and get it. Talk to former coworkers and bosses, suppliers, customers, whoever. Some of these freelance projects I did on-site, like construction supervision, and others I was able to do on a computer halfway around the world, like reviewing specifications and procedures.

If you interview with a company for a full time job and it looks like they're not certain about hiring, pitch them on a short term project as a consultant. I once got a very lucrative 2 month project this way.

This is very important: When you're starting out, always try to bill Time and Material, as opposed to Lump Sum. Why?
a) its easier for them to pitch it to upper management because the costs seem low,
b) the hours always end up more than they expected, meaning your pay is higher (especially if you're getting extra for OT/weekends),
c) this lowers your risk, as you won't lose out if you underestimated the hours.

And always get a signed contract up front. You can download standard freelance contracts online and use them as a template. On my first freelance project I was nearly screwed out of 5 grand because I didn't insist on getting a contract.

Traveling Sales - another good job for guys that love to travel is Sales Engineer. You're basically a salesman with a technical background, for products that require a good knowledge base to sell. These guys may travel 90% of the time, and sometimes to pretty cool locations. I knew a guy selling specialized equipment for propane gas who'd been to over 100 countries. But remember that all that traveling for work can be pretty tiring after a while. Just make sure you get frequent flyer points!

Work Abroad - Some jobs will send you abroad for a period of time, or hire you directly to come overseas. For guys interested in Petroleum Engineering, there's a good chance you'll get oversea offers. But remember, you have to go where the oil is - this may well be the United Arab Emirates or some other less desirable place in the Middle East.

Africa also imports a lot of engineers, often on a 6 - 12 month project basis for construction and infrastructure works.

And if you work for a large multinational company, you can often request a temporary transfer to one of their overseas locations. The conditions are often very good for overseas transfers - they'll usually pay for your apartment, moving costs, and a good salary with stipend.

Post: #28

(05-19-2013 08:47 AM)Chunnel Wrote:  This is not true. I was an environmental engineering graduate, had no problem getting a job after graduation, same with all my peers who graduated with me. (mostly chicks which is true)

The water/waste water industry is beginning to experience a flux in retirements making environmental engineers more desirable. Not to mention the enormous opportunity abroad as more countries continue to develop their maiden infrastructure systems. Water is becoming liquid gold making engineers who know how to handle, clean , and recycle it that much more lucrative.

Chunnel, I apologize then. I only spoke as I remembered reading a RVF member post how he went to UIUC for Civil/Environmental Engineering and couldn't get a job. Cyclone on this thread: /thread-23780.html.

Also, I do remember civil engineers at my school having a bit of a trouble getting jobs a few years ago as the economy slowed down (as construction came to a halt). Perhaps things have changed in the meantime.

Post: #29

(05-19-2013 09:17 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 08:47 AM)Chunnel Wrote:  This is not true. I was an environmental engineering graduate, had no problem getting a job after graduation, same with all my peers who graduated with me. (mostly chicks which is true)

The water/waste water industry is beginning to experience a flux in retirements making environmental engineers more desirable. Not to mention the enormous opportunity abroad as more countries continue to develop their maiden infrastructure systems. Water is becoming liquid gold making engineers who know how to handle, clean , and recycle it that much more lucrative.

Chunnel, I apologize then. I only spoke as I remembered reading a RVF member post how he went to UIUC for Civil/Environmental Engineering and couldn't get a job. Cyclone on this thread: /thread-23780.html.

Also, I do remember civil engineers at my school having a bit of a trouble getting jobs a few years ago as the economy slowed down (as construction came to a halt). Perhaps things have changed in the meantime.

I also know a lot of civil engineers who struggled finding jobs, most just went back to grad school or got a masters in construction management.
Civil engineering demand does seem to roll with the construction market. One would think that with the state of the nation's infrastructure the demand would continuously stay high.

The beauty of environmental engineering is that focusing on water, you are always dealing with a necessity that in some regions is transformed into a scarce commodity. If there is one thing that the world will always need it will be water, hell Egypt and Ethiopia are reading to stock arms for it. Plus the major gives you the ability to branch out into other disciplines such as renewable energies, hydroelectricity.

I think another important thing to remember is to take as many courses as possible involve writing. Technical writing is an aspect of lab work, but I feel my writing really improved by getting torn to pieces in my humanities classes. Being able to bridge the gap between the "engineering nerd's" idea and selling it to "joe public" can put you in a class above even the most brilliant of your classmates.

Post: #30

(05-19-2013 10:33 AM)Chunnel Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 09:17 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 08:47 AM)Chunnel Wrote:  This is not true. I was an environmental engineering graduate, had no problem getting a job after graduation, same with all my peers who graduated with me. (mostly chicks which is true)

The water/waste water industry is beginning to experience a flux in retirements making environmental engineers more desirable. Not to mention the enormous opportunity abroad as more countries continue to develop their maiden infrastructure systems. Water is becoming liquid gold making engineers who know how to handle, clean , and recycle it that much more lucrative.

Chunnel, I apologize then. I only spoke as I remembered reading a RVF member post how he went to UIUC for Civil/Environmental Engineering and couldn't get a job. Cyclone on this thread: /thread-23780.html.

Also, I do remember civil engineers at my school having a bit of a trouble getting jobs a few years ago as the economy slowed down (as construction came to a halt). Perhaps things have changed in the meantime.

I also know a lot of civil engineers who struggled finding jobs, most just went back to grad school or got a masters in construction management.
Civil engineering demand does seem to roll with the construction market. One would think that with the state of the nation's infrastructure the demand would continuously stay high.

The beauty of environmental engineering is that focusing on water, you are always dealing with a necessity that in some regions is transformed into a scarce commodity. If there is one thing that the world will always need it will be water, hell Egypt and Ethiopia are reading to stock arms for it. Plus the major gives you the ability to branch out into other disciplines such as renewable energies, hydroelectricity.

I think another important thing to remember is to take as many courses as possible involve writing. Technical writing is an aspect of lab work, but I feel my writing really improved by getting torn to pieces in my humanities classes. Being able to bridge the gap between the "engineering nerd's" idea and selling it to "joe public" can put you in a class above even the most brilliant of your classmates.

Also, remember that the environmental field can get you jobs in the oil field (HES inspectors) and many other jobs in other areas, YMG had a good thread on this.

Nice thread.

Post: #31

Good info here, Sabra.

It's my experience that university engineers who aren't afraid to be in the field have very little issues in regards to finding constant, well compensated employment.

Being in the field/on-site, you're exposed to cost, contracts, supervision, everything. This makes you insanely marketable. You get to travel more. You're paid uplift and more overtime hours. You get to work outside. Womenz dig it.

I feel that engineering has a bad rep; anti-social desk jockey nerds playing in a 3d model. If you're not afraid of the field, combined with an engineering education = gold.

Also, with so much concern over "what kind of engineer" etc etc...again, this applies more towards to the desk jockeys. When you're on site, you may be a civil background but you're running leak tests on piping, setting all sorts of mech equipment, LOTO on electrical work, etc. You do it all.

My two cents.

Post: #32

Great thread sabra. Do you have any advice for people looking to get an engineering degree/ get on a competitive course in England?

Post: #33

(05-19-2013 03:31 PM)sammybiker Wrote:  Good info here, Sabra.

It's my experience that university engineers who aren't afraid to be in the field have very little issues in regards to finding constant, well compensated employment.

Being in the field/on-site, you're exposed to cost, contracts, supervision, everything. This makes you insanely marketable. You get to travel more. You're paid uplift and more overtime hours. You get to work outside. Womenz dig it.

I feel that engineering has a bad rep; anti-social desk jockey nerds playing in a 3d model. If you're not afraid of the field, combined with an engineering education = gold.

Also, with so much concern over "what kind of engineer" etc etc...again, this applies more towards to the desk jockeys. When you're on site, you may be a civil background but you're running leak tests on piping, setting all sorts of mech equipment, LOTO on electrical work, etc. You do it all.

My two cents.

Great post sammybiker. It sounds like we have pretty similar career paths - I also love getting out in the field, and I've got a lot of experience with leak testing and lock out tag out procedures.

I like what you said about having to know many different fields. Especially if you want to be running projects, you need to know enough about everything to make sure the contractors aren't screwing you over. I'm a mechE guy, but at certain points in my career I had to learn about concrete foundations (civil), elements and materials (materials/chemical), programming (computer), just to get a project done.

Post: #34

Great post Sabra, never really thought about consulting. Might be a really good idea indeed. +1 from me man, great info.

Post: #35

(05-19-2013 04:16 PM)Cyr Wrote:  Great thread sabra. Do you have any advice for people looking to get an engineering degree/ get on a competitive course in England?

What's up Cyr. I actually know a few British engineers, really solid guys.

One of them mentioned to me that you can take 'general engineering' classes in British universities. You spend up to two years studying the basic courses that are relevant to many engineering disciplines, like math, physics, basic electronics and chemistry. That gives you a taste of everything, before you choose to focus on a specific field.

That sounds like a great option for a guy who's undecided when he first enters school. Even if you choose after a year to move to a different field, you'll have gotten a bunch of pre-reqs out of the way.

Other than that I don't have too much specific information about England. Most of the information on this thread will be pertinent regardless of your location.

Post: #36

shameless plug for engineering...numbers don't lie:
http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/25/news/eco...index.html

Quote: Seven of the top 10 highest-paid college degrees are in engineering, according to a report out Thursday from the National Association of Colleges and Employers.

Petroleum engineering majors are the highest paid, with starting salaries averaging $93,500, according to the association. That's at least $20,000 more than the average salary for computer engineers, who are the second-highest paid group on the list.

Other highly-paid engineering degrees are in the fields of chemical, aerospace, mechanical, electrical/electronic, communications and technology, with starting pay ranging from $62,200 to $67,600 per year.

"Engineering majors are consistently among the highest paid because the demand for them is so great," said association executive director Marilyn Mackes, in a press release.

Post: #37

We talked about this in the McKinsey thread.

Knocked out on the actual hours worked, engineering jobs are some of the highest paying on the market.

The field allows for plenty of time for some kind of side hustle passive income gig.

Post: #38

Thanks for the info!

Do Petroleum Engineers make the most on the list Ghenghis Khan posted because they are more likely to work in undesirable locations?

Could someone with a Chemical, Electrical, or Mechanical Engineering make just as much if they chose to work in those places?

I'm thinking about going back to school for an Engineering degree at some point in the next couple years. I already have a bachelor's in something else unrelated, so I'm hoping I can knock it out in 2-3 years of hard work.

Post: #39

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05...tml?cmpid=

Don't worry guys, the govt has our backs

Post: #40

Here in America engineering degrees can be easy to come by. For instance...Univ of Mich has several engineering programs where you can get your BSE and MSE in 5 years. An advanced program you could say. If you are accepted of course.

Post: #41

Another good field aligned with petroleum engineering is corrosion engineering. Payscale is less (Link) but the opportunities are abundant (mainly because metal is ALWAYS and WILL ALWAYS corrode)

I knew nothing about corrosion control/mitigation until I started working, but learned tons (and retained it all) which seems impossible to do with coursework. Mechanical and electrical engineers will have a headstart towards corrosion engineering, but even me as an environmental was able to pick up on concepts quickly.

Post: #42

delete

Post: #43

I took the calculated risk of getting my Masters in Env Engineering 10 years back after a Bachelors in Mechanical Engineering. In the next few months, I will be throwing it all away to go to business school in Texas to focus on energy. My ideal post MBA job would be in business development for a renewable energy company such as GE wind energy or at a Oil and gas firm such as Chevron Venture Capital focusing on Clean energy.
I will say this, I have been bored to tears working for pure civil engineering firms as there is really not a whole lot of room to grow. I see no reason to sit for the PE exam, it's a huge waste of time and resources. It tests for nothing new but engineering concepts designed back in the 70s and 80s. If I were to do it all again, I would pick petroleum engineering. It is way more lucrative than any other engineering field I know. I have heard it is some crazy hours in the field but highly rewarding. Here are the numbers from Glassdoor. You could land at a job that pays around 90K and no other engineering discipline comes close.
http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Chevron-...E13524.htm

Post: #44

***Peeks into the room***

What about us "software engineers"? Y'know, computer science is in the engineering college of some schools and in the math departments of others.

Me?....B.S. in Applied Mathematics, M.S. Systems Engineering

Of course, P.E. licenses are not important for SoftE as we have to continuously stay on top of the latest technologies.

As for getting chicks......

Got a few during freshman/sophomore years...nothing too impressive with the numbers BUT being a senior Math/Computer Science student sure made "business" pick up as far as the chicks.

Post: #45

(05-19-2013 08:47 AM)Chunnel Wrote:  

(05-19-2013 04:57 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  - Also, thread carefully. Not all engineering majors are created equally. The more girls an engineering major has, the easier it is generally and should be avoided. There's a reason why environmental engineering has so many girls and why the job opportunities aren't fantastic.

This is not true. I was an environmental engineering graduate, had no problem getting a job after graduation, same with all my peers who graduated with me. (mostly chicks which is true)

The water/waste water industry is beginning to experience a flux in retirements making environmental engineers more desirable. Not to mention the enormous opportunity abroad as more countries continue to develop their maiden infrastructure systems. Water is becoming liquid gold making engineers who know how to handle, clean , and recycle it that much more lucrative.

As an Env. Engineer, I have to agree. Env engg is a niche field. You will have no problem getting a job in the US. It's a realtively stable field. However, it did not have the best looking women. You need to be able to get through difficult chemistry classes tied in with water resources. The talent in engineering was always in Transporation or Industrial engineering. Both these programs had less quantitaive classes and hence had more hotter women. Infact my school had a transportation class assignment on Counting cars, as in stand at a highway and document the types of 4 wheelers passing that intersection in an hour. Also, when it comes to taking the PE exam most of my office mates chose transportation in their afternoon section because it was so easy to pass instead of the hardcore majors such as Structural, geotech and water resources

Post: #46

(05-20-2013 08:28 PM)StarcraftGG Wrote:  In my first 2 years of engineering school, I took calculus, advanced calculus, even more advanced vector calculus, linear algebra, advanced linear algebra, differential equations, and probability. I compared these courses to the year 3 and 4 courses offered to the math majors in the city university, and realized that after completing sophomore year in engineering, I was fully prepared to take all the finals of the math majors from this city university, and walk out with a degree.

The same applies for physics - http://www.ccny.cuny.edu/registrar/uploa...hysics.pdf
I took all the math requirements and the physics requirements - thermodynamics, optics, quantum physics, physics lab, electricity and magnetism - in my freshman and sophomore years. It was so insane I did the equivalent of TWO 4 year degrees in both math and physics in my first 2 years, without majoring in either.

Props to you for taking (and liking vector calculus). I was an applied (actually computational) math major and I HATE vectors....never liked them. As far as my math courses for my B.S.:

Calculus I, II, III (normal Calc sequence)
Linear Algebra
Differential Equations
Advanced Calculus (truly was an Analysis-light course, avoided the Rudin book)

Since my emphasis was more computational, the rest of the math courses were:

Discrete Math I (Combinatorics)
Discrete Math II (Graph Theory)
Numerical Analysis
Optimization & Linear Programming
Computational Linear Algebra
Computational Complexity

Then for Plan-B/Backup Plan purposes, I took 85% of my school's computer science program using all of my elective credits.

Post: #47

On average the chemical and petroleum engineers I know make the most money but the top paid guys are very good EEs, 200-300k/year after bonuses.

Post: #48

I highly recommend engineering if you're very bright. I went to a really good state school and partied my ass off. Never went to the library, went to 30% of my classes, and missed lots of hw. The beauty however is that with a sub 3.0 gpa I still got exactly the job I wanted.

If your gpa is decent from a respected school, you'll do fine. I could have had a much higher gpa and studied constantly like others but college is your time to have fun IMO.

Dont underestimate how much harder engineering is though, this why being bright is necessary. I reckon its probably impossible to finish at the top of your class without putting in the effort all the other nerds are unless you're truely Einstein brillant, but luckily decent grades are just fine. If youre bright you dont need to rat race to the top, just coast along drunk, and study hard for those tests.

Post: #49

(05-20-2013 09:12 PM)Ensam Wrote:  On average the chemical and petroleum engineers I know make the most money but the top paid guys are very good EEs, 200-300k/year after bonuses.

Ensam, which fields do these EEs go into? Also, is that 200-300k/year with a Masters or PhD? I'm just curious, since that sounds like a really interesting job opportunity.

Post: #50

Great Thread.

In which countries would you say engineering is held in highest regard? I've heard that in Italy it is a very high-status profession. Any other countries? Maybe most of continental Europe. The UK seems to love Accountants more for some reason.

Personal Question:
If someone has developed a relatively simple product which kind of engineer would be best to take a basic prototype and and create a more streamlined and production ready prototype together with plans?