Hexagonal barrel cross section? Look at this idea.

(10-12-2017 10:00 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  You can own 20 mm Vulcan chambered anti material rifles, but you cannot own AK47. That logic...

??? Vulcan is a destructive device. To get it you have to pay the tax stamp, get license and permission from ATF, undergo a background check, then assuming the state you live in didn't ban the destructive device, you can pay the $50K or whatever it costs and get it. Then you have to put up with ATF checks on the regular whenever they want to see if everything is still kosher.
Their checks are usually done at midnight with many angry men pushing rifle barrels into your face demanding you open your gun safe.

Yes, pardon, I meant 20 mm round originally used in Vulcan rotary cannons. There are rifles that use it, for example Anzio.

(10-12-2017 08:16 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  Can somebody in short explain why the Americans cannot easily obtain automatic weapons? From all the videos I got apparently false conclusion that you can just like that shoot full auto weapons.

There are a few ways a US citizen can get their hands on an automatic firearm. Here is the deal with machine guns:

You can buy them whole, but to get them transferred you need to register them, and this requires paying the tax, submitting a form 4 to the ATF, waiting 6 months for a response, and paying a lot of money because automatic sell for huge bucks. Talking the price of a new car or full size pickup.

Another way is to purchase a registered drop in auto sear for your compatible firearm. This is the same deal - you need to fill out form 4 yadda yadda yadda. They are also very expensive see above.

Keep in mind these weapons and parts need to be pre-ban (1986).

This are the legal ways to do it.

(10-12-2017 10:11 AM)MOVSM Wrote:  Then you have to put up with ATF checks on the regular whenever they want to see if everything is still kosher.
Their checks are usually done at midnight with many angry men pushing rifle barrels into your face demanding you open your gun safe.

Citation please?

Can't find now, but there was an article in shotgun news about a guy who bought a 50cal kit, and his neighbors seeked ATF on him.

It seems that with Trump they got better. Here is what the people are saying:

http://m14forum.com/m14/84240-trw-receiv...post564259

http://www.tacticalforums.com/ubb/Forum2...00175.html

https://www.rt.com/usa/atf-raided-farm-fpsrussia-035/

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbullet...post670347

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavli...s-n1810321

MOVSM, you definitely know more on the subject than I do, and have more practical experience than I.

That being said, most of these links seem fairly reasonable and discuss either regular inspection of FFL licensees (who agreed to increased scrutiny as part of the license applications), potential illegal possession or creation of selective fire weapons, or cases where legal violations (either of gun laws or violence, such as in connection to a suspected murder and ensuing related investigation) were suspected to occur.

What these articles above show is a skepticism against regulation and oversight, I see nothing about common firearms owners, and certainly nothing about black ops teams assaulting lawful citizens' homes under dead of night.

IANAL. I am not a lawyer.

(10-11-2017 12:47 PM)lex the impaler Wrote:  What sort of hearing protection do y'all use at the range. I use ear plugs coupled with cheap muffs. I'm thinking of upgrading to quality ear muffs.

Wear the cheap foam squishy ones on the outdoor range, but you need to wear the thick over the ear hearing protection for indoor ranges. The reason being is your ears can be damaged from repeated long term exposure to the reverberations from gunfire. This ain't bullshit. Those little bones and crystals in the inner ear take a serious pounding on a busy range. I'm at the point that I'm starting to double up whenever I'm on a indoor range and there's more than one person shooting at a time. I'll put in the soft foam ones, then I'll put on the big solid headphones.

^Seconded. If you are firing next to someone with an AR or some powerful rounds (big gun powder loads), it'll make you jump every time. I bought some good ears from Bass Pro that have done a good job. About $35 each.

Out door shooting is a lot more easy on the ears. Plus, it's fun as hell peppering metal targets. The sound it makes when a bullet hits them is bliss.

After I got my weapon licence I did buy a Glock 19 gen 3 today. Austria made. Was a special offer with some extra items.

   

Now there is just one slot left for a Pistol or a semi Auto.

Which one of you did this

^scared that pussy, that's for sure

How does the kitten operate it?

point and click

Back in here again.looking for a shotgun due to me getting ny own place.gonna see what cabelas has on the used rack tomorrow.

Gun show is also coming up.if i could manage how to get to that i could probably find something at a decent price.

@shotgunuppercuts

Can never go wrong with a Remington 870 Express Tactical. Inexpensive, simple, and reliable. Mossberg is another decent choice for home defense.

I recommend buck shot load and a cylinder choke. Heavy duty enough to kill or seriously maim someone if you hit them, but still has a decent spread at close range so you can hit a target half awake and in the dark.

Another good option is the mossberg 500 series tactical edition with a built in rail of attaching a laser/light for nighttime encounters. It also has an extended tube for extra rounds.

Just went and looked at some yesterday.

Is a stoeger pump actipn worth a damn?

(12-07-2017 08:58 AM)ShotgunUppercuts Wrote:  Just went and looked at some yesterday.

Is a stoeger pump actipn worth a damn?

Sure, why not. I would get a classic, Rem 870 or Mossberg 500, but Stoeger isn't bad.

I'll caveat this post by saying I believe that a carbine length rifle (or SBR) is superior to the shotgun for any conceivable defensive scenario.

This is also assuming you have a handgun already, which should be the #1 firearm purchase.

I would look for an older model, at least 10 years old. The reason being is two-fold. One is that in 2007 Remington was acquired by a gun holding company called Freedom Group which is in turn owned by Cerberus Capital Management. Since that time, the QC has taken a definitive nose dive with a renewed focus on a lower end market segment that trickled down (or up?) into their main lines of the 700 and 870 models. This time period also corresponds to the "Obama years" where the entire US gun industry was assholes and elbows trying to manufacture as many guns and as much ammo as possible. This is not isolated to Remington, but is a more widespread issue in the sector but Remington and other Freedom Group Co's (Marlin, Bushmaster, DPMS) are some of the most egregious examples.

TL;DR - cost cutting and production numbers have taken priority over quality.

The Stoeger is a fine weapon, maybe a bit rougher around the edges than a vintage 870 but perfectly serviceable. I believe they are Turkish made.

Other choices:
-Mossberg 500 series
-Winchester 1300 or SXP series
-Benelli Nova series

As for ammo I am a fan of Federal's #1 buck loading with their Flight Control wad (sku LE1321B). Not only is it superior from a terminal ballistics perspective it is extremely tight grouping.

From Box O' Truth #56 Federal #1 Buckshot

Quote:“Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 15 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 15 pellets is .964 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 20 percent more potentially effective wound trauma.

In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker’s body.”

(12-07-2017 01:24 PM)Adonis Wrote:  I'll caveat this post by saying I believe that a carbine length rifle (or SBR) is superior to the shotgun for any conceivable defensive scenario.

Short Barrelled rifle (SBR) is NOT a carbine length rifle. SBRs are controlled by NFA and you have to get permission from ATF to get one, while carbines are not.

Sigh. 2A is going to be right next to military service to vote when I rebuild after the collapse. Damned cuck nation.

^^^ I'm aware of the differences, either are better than a shotgun for HD.

Shotguns only win out on intimidation factor, which is not something to underestimate if your likely target audience is comprised of moronic drug addicts you'd rather not go to court for shooting.

(10-18-2017 01:47 PM)vinman Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 12:47 PM)lex the impaler Wrote:  What sort of hearing protection do y'all use at the range. I use ear plugs coupled with cheap muffs. I'm thinking of upgrading to quality ear muffs.

The reason being is your ears can be damaged from repeated long term exposure to the reverberations from gunfire. This ain't bullshit. Those little bones and crystals in the inner ear take a serious pounding on a busy range. I'm at the point that I'm starting to double up whenever I'm on a indoor range and there's more than one person shooting at a time. I'll put in the soft foam ones, then I'll put on the big solid headphones.

Really?
Shoot rarely on indoor ranges.
But, I don't think that firing a 22lr need a protection for shooting outdoor; you go in front of a loud concert and get more hear damage than that.
The 9mm, imo, isn't that loud, especially with standard 124 grs and subsonic ammo, shoot a few times outdoor without ear plugs to get the "true feeling", with no "iiiii" and a little bit attenuated hearing for at max 10 seconds. Will shoot shortly indoor, in a free-lone shooting range to experience the bang. BUT, I almost ever use at least ear plugs, otherwise.
The rifle is another thing, seen people shooting the Stgw. 57, 2-3 meters away, God this thing is almost as loud as shooting a 50 bmg!

One thing people very often underestimate is the eyes protection, very important -- especially shooting on indoor ranges; got a few times very hot cases extracted impacting directly on my eyes, but thankfully got glasses which where unfortunately scratched afterwards. So, I do recommend to use at least cheap labor/laboratory plastic glasses.
The thing is that you cannot predict were cases are gonna land on semi-autos.

Bonus: