Post: #1

So lately, I have been able to get girls out on dates, but my hit rate isn't as good as I'd like it to be on these dates. I can't seem to escalate properly using both physical and conversational escalation, plus I'd like to hear about how some of you guys build comfort and keep the attraction pot going at the same time, so as to build a strong connection and then smash. I will admit, my sexual frame isn't as strong as I'd like it to be in the beginning since these are couchsurfing and social circle sort of hookups/meetups. I've got two coming up this week, one a coffee date (I know) and one a night date.

I've read the First Date bang thread and I've applied the techniques that I could (seating, venue picking) but I have a long way to go. My achilles heel is conversation - what kind of topics do you guys bring up? This is kind of a weak spot of mine. I'd like some help with emotionally stimulating conversation topics. Also, kino - if you haven't kissed before, how soon into the date? Kino escalation before the kiss?

If there's anything else you'd like to talk about I'm all ears.

Post: #2

What is your date plan now and we can critique it?

Post: #3

Go to the bar.

Talk Quatsch. Start touching/kinoing her after you get the drink. If you end up talking about food, poke her softly a bit higher in the hips and say something like "yup, chocolate/currywurst/kebab/icecream/randomfood". Do the minus "XXX points" when she says something you dont like.

Neil skywalker started a great thread with a lot of great questions.
Here: /thread-12422....hlight=bed

Post: #4

I always position myself sitting next to a girl rather than across the table from her. Far easier to get in for a kiss.

Post: #5

The best way for you to learn how to date women is to stop thinking of it like a science project.

Quote:I can't seem to escalate properly using both physical and conversational escalation, plus I'd like to hear about how some of you guys build comfort and keep the attraction pot going at the same time, so as to build a strong connection and then smash. I will admit, my sexual frame isn't as strong...

You sound like a robot, chicks pick up on this stuff.

Your homework: The next 3 dates you go on...relax, drink, talk like a human being, enjoy yourself. Don't worry if it goes well or not, learn and improve. The problem might be your approach is too artificial.

Post: #6

(05-13-2013 12:37 PM)augen sehen Wrote:  So lately, I have been able to get girls out on dates, but my hit rate isn't as good as I'd like it to be on these dates. I can't seem to escalate properly using both physical and conversational escalation, plus I'd like to hear about how some of you guys build comfort and keep the attraction pot going at the same time, so as to build a strong connection and then smash. I will admit, my sexual frame isn't as strong as I'd like it to be in the beginning since these are couchsurfing and social circle sort of hookups/meetups. I've got two coming up this week, one a coffee date (I know) and one a night date.

I can come up with all kinds of gambits, tactics, tricks, convo topics, roleplays...but I'm guessing you're running into the situation where you're with a chick but
- lot of dead air
- the chick is not helping you fill in the gaps

If you find that movies, museums/art installations, dinner, ice cream, "drinks" is forcing you to have awkward conversations - you need to put the source of stimulus external to you and the chick.

So you have to pick dates that have you do something physical beside sit and talk or stand and talk.
- bowl, darts, pool, ski ball, air hockey, foosball, ping pong
- putt putt golf, go-kart driving
- festivals, walking around, people watching
- amusement park
- indoor rock climbing?

^all of these allow you to put your hands on a chick just by doing the event. If it's the sort of thing where you need to cooperate in order to do the thing - that's a good test of what happens later on.

If it's the sort of thing where you compete, GAMBLE, but you set the stakes! (never money, always "personal service")

These should give you enough fodder to
- talk
- to throw some kino into the mix
- throw a little emotional drama into the mix

the more you do this, the more you realize what your sweet spot is in terms of generating convo and kino.


After the hype event -> alcohol to "cool down" -> kino/convo -> "Back to the Hotel" © N2DEEP

WIA

Post: #7

Thanks WestIndianArchie for your post. It helps a lot.

(05-13-2013 12:45 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  What is your date plan now and we can critique it?

Sure. My date plan is to pick out a bar/cafe near my place, and set a time. I usually meet the girl at the subway stop and walk with her to the place.

I have been burned by not having sufficient comfort and I've heard a venue change helps with that, so I've been incorporating that as well. My problem here is that I don't have a longterm place yet and not enough dates, so I have to look up things close to where I currently am in order to find something good to go on a date to. Its a fresh effort every time.

Also, when a venue isn't so good then I want to be able to bounce somewhere else, but sometimes I just end up rooted there.

(05-13-2013 06:22 PM)Gmac Wrote:  The best way for you to learn how to date women is to stop thinking of it like a science project.

Your homework: The next 3 dates you go on...relax, drink, talk like a human being, enjoy yourself. Don't worry if it goes well or not, learn and improve. The problem might be your approach is too artificial.

Let me tell you about an unsuccessful date I had recently.

I messaged this girl on couchsurfing and she was very interested, telling me we'd get along famously and all that. I picked a place close to her place, and it was a decent enough bar, but no sofas so we sat on separate chairs. After the initial hug I didn't have any more kino apart from incidental hand touching. We talked about a bunch of things during the date. I had two G&T's, she had hot glühwein (Wtf?).

Then about two drinks later she said she has to go and I was alarmed since I hadn't done any touching at all, so I felt the date was a lost cause. At the corner where we parted ways, I asked to use her restroom as a long shot, and she said "No, sorry" and I felt like an idiot because I didn't have enough conviction behind my words. No further contact after that.

This is why I think the way I'm dating is the problem. Girls seem to be down, but once I get them out, they lose interest.

Post: #8

in that chill/mundane place like bar/cafe next to her place you gotta be the shiny object aka the main attraction. it requires more from you like decent conversation skills, leading frame, creativity, social stamina, self amusement, etc.

whereas on activity based dates [WIA mentioned] you can do much less and keep the girl in fun mode/emotional state which helps escalating.

pick your niche

Post: #9

(05-13-2013 12:37 PM)augen sehen Wrote:  My achilles heel is conversation

Eye contact. Sit next to her. If you are sitting across a table, pull out your Iphone and tell her to come around to look at pictures.

You might want to prepare a couple conversational games/routines, like Marry-Fuck-Kill, or The Cube. This will at least give you a little traction or a fall-back plan.

Post: #10

Your ideas about conversation and locations are ok, if a bit robotic, but your kino needs help. If it is that hard for you to occasionally gently touch her forearm while walking along with her, or back, shoulder or hand while sitting with her, it's obvious that your touch needs practice. It needs to come naturally. I know it's hard to become a "warm and touchy" (but not suffocating or too aggressive) person, but it seems like your main problem.

Furthermore, I don't see the bathroom move working if you haven't even kissed yet. There was no intimacy at all established.

Post: #11

Ok, so I get that the activity based date idea is better. Is that more of a daytime date though, as opposed to a nighttime one?

It feels like getting her out to play mini golf or shoot pool is going to need a different approach to getting her back home than getting her out to drinks at a local bar so I'd like some explanation of how you'd get her back to your place.

If the date is in the daytime, what do you guys think about a picnic at a local park with frisbee (some other things to do on a picnic?), followed by wine and sandwiches, then hit up a bar on the way home and then invite her in? Do you think that's a good plan? How would I escalate touching in a park? The problem is, in Germany these days it isn't sunny so often so I'd need a second/third option in case its too cold or it rains.

Post: #12

(05-14-2013 08:00 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  Your ideas about conversation and locations are ok, if a bit robotic, but your kino needs help. If it is that hard for you to occasionally gently touch her forearm while walking along with her, or back, shoulder or hand while sitting with her, it's obvious that your touch needs practice.

I want to address this... I can and have escalated very quickly, when I feel that the girl is very into me. However, sometimes I get nervous and unsure of whether my advances will be welcome or how to take things forward. How do I get over this?

Post: #13

(05-14-2013 08:23 AM)augen sehen Wrote:  

(05-14-2013 08:00 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  Your ideas about conversation and locations are ok, if a bit robotic, but your kino needs help. If it is that hard for you to occasionally gently touch her forearm while walking along with her, or back, shoulder or hand while sitting with her, it's obvious that your touch needs practice.

I want to address this... I can and have escalated very quickly, when I feel that the girl is very into me. However, sometimes I get nervous and unsure of whether my advances will be welcome or how to take things forward. How do I get over this?

I'm still perfecting this as well but I can think back to the times where things didn't go well and it was always due to lack of kino. I still sometimes discount how important it is and yet it always bites me in the ass when I don't do it.

Last night I went to a local brewery walking distance from my place to just have a beer and watch the basketball game. The bar was half empty and about 30 mins in a girl sits next to me and starts looking at the menu. I offhandedly mention "the sliders are great here". We begin chatting from there, nothing deep or serious but as we talk I keep tapping her upper arm . Long story short, one of her friends joins her and the three of us talk. I keep up the consistent kino and after her friend leaves I escalate to putting my arm around her and rubbing her back.

She had an early morning today so I walk her to her car and get a heavy makeout. We've been texting this morning and are working on plans to go on a "real" date where I have every intention of sealing the deal.

Sometimes seating arrangements and logistics will cock block you but it's your job to ALWAYS find a way to kino right from the start. Without it, you're dead.

Post: #14

(05-14-2013 06:44 AM)augen sehen Wrote:  Thanks WestIndianArchie for your post. It helps a lot.

(05-13-2013 12:45 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  What is your date plan now and we can critique it?

Sure. My date plan is to pick out a bar/cafe near my place, and set a time. I usually meet the girl at the subway stop and walk with her to the place.

I have been burned by not having sufficient comfort and I've heard a venue change helps with that, so I've been incorporating that as well. My problem here is that I don't have a longterm place yet and not enough dates, so I have to look up things close to where I currently am in order to find something good to go on a date to. Its a fresh effort every time.

Also, when a venue isn't so good then I want to be able to bounce somewhere else, but sometimes I just end up rooted there.

Try something a little more fun.

Use this as a guide and mold it to your scene: Three Point First Date Swoop Move

Meet up later at night and get some alcohol flowing.

Post: #15

You gotta get 4 drinks in her before you start any kino. 2 drinks. 2 shots.

Post: #16

Someone mentioned showing pictures in your phone. I like that.
I recently started taking pictures with girls I meet at bars. Flipping though an album like that helps with motivation and it makes me look good.

Post: #17

(05-14-2013 08:21 AM)augen sehen Wrote:  Ok, so I get that the activity based date idea is better. Is that more of a daytime date though, as opposed to a nighttime one?

yes it's daytime. however inside rock climbing is not outside thing so can be whenever.

(05-14-2013 08:21 AM)augen sehen Wrote:  It feels like getting her out to play mini golf or shoot pool is going to need a different approach to getting her back home than getting her out to drinks at a local bar so I'd like some explanation of how you'd get her back to your place.

i see no big difference. you play mini golf and go to her place to have drinks watch movies etc. you go to a bar for a drink to the bar and same thing.

as a side note, don't try to move from the date straight to her bed in one big move. baby step it. don't worry about bedroom. just try get to the next phase. situations change along with your relationship with that girl. with more time the girl will be more familiar with you and more receptive.

so for example... when you end your mini golf offer shopping. don't even explain much even if she asks, just say "let's make the best of this day". when you get there browse around for things you need to make some simple meal. say "hey i know this cool recipe help me out" and pick ingredients together. then get out of mall and go to buy wine saying "i know this one place i like buying there" and go there. then say "ok we got all we need, i'll teach you something cool if you help me" and go to her place to cook. starting cooking together. fool around in the kitchen. tell her to put on some cool music she has. order her around to chop this wash that. have fun with it. in the meantime when your meal is getting ready go ball dance. etc. same with the bar situation. go to the bar. go to play pool. go to have a bite. go buy beer and chill at some little hill watching stars. then "it's getting cold let's get warm at your place". etc.

baby stepping. with every little move you get closer to finish line. she's more likely to go with you to the next location than straight to her bed. with time together she gets more comfortable with you and with more mini locations you create illusion of connection.

(05-14-2013 08:21 AM)augen sehen Wrote:  How would I escalate touching in a park?

beside natural playful touches here and there, what's the point in physically escalating in the park? she will get aroused just for a moment and then poof! gone. play with how much she gets. send mixed signals. confuse her. provide contrasting emotions. keep her guessing "where is it going? does he like me? i think so.. i hope i won't say anything stupid.. but he's talking shit all the time.. i wonder why he didn't kiss me when he clearly could.. maybe he's fucking with me.. but he just told me i'm cute.. damn why do i even care it's just some guy.. i feel so comfortable with him.. that neck kiss was nice.. ".

(05-14-2013 08:23 AM)augen sehen Wrote:  However, sometimes I get nervous and unsure of whether my advances will be welcome or how to take things forward. How do I get over this?

just get her comfortable in your space. do things like holding hands, putting arms around her, fake dancing, sit her on your lap, etc. when you do some touching don't linger. for example.. hold hands for few moments say "ahh your hand are sweating haha are you stressed?" and release them saying like you're pushing her away. keep that rhythm, in & out, push & pull. don't do this tacky makeouts on public bench like dorky teenagers. leave sexual touching/kissing for the bedroom where you can continue it to the very end. you want to keep it light in public then amp it up in private place a bit with some light kisses keep slowly heating her up until she's really hot and wet and then you pull the real trigger.

Post: #18

(05-14-2013 06:44 AM)augen sehen Wrote:  Thanks WestIndianArchie for your post. It helps a lot.

(05-13-2013 12:45 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  What is your date plan now and we can critique it?

Sure. My date plan is to pick out a bar/cafe near my place, and set a time. I usually meet the girl at the subway stop and walk with her to the place.

I have been burned by not having sufficient comfort and I've heard a venue change helps with that, so I've been incorporating that as well. My problem here is that I don't have a longterm place yet and not enough dates, so I have to look up things close to where I currently am in order to find something good to go on a date to. Its a fresh effort every time.

Also, when a venue isn't so good then I want to be able to bounce somewhere else, but sometimes I just end up rooted there.

(05-13-2013 06:22 PM)Gmac Wrote:  The best way for you to learn how to date women is to stop thinking of it like a science project.

Your homework: The next 3 dates you go on...relax, drink, talk like a human being, enjoy yourself. Don't worry if it goes well or not, learn and improve. The problem might be your approach is too artificial.

Let me tell you about an unsuccessful date I had recently.

I messaged this girl on couchsurfing and she was very interested, telling me we'd get along famously and all that. I picked a place close to her place, and it was a decent enough bar, but no sofas so we sat on separate chairs. After the initial hug I didn't have any more kino apart from incidental hand touching. We talked about a bunch of things during the date. I had two G&T's, she had hot glühwein (Wtf?).

Then about two drinks later she said she has to go and I was alarmed since I hadn't done any touching at all, so I felt the date was a lost cause. At the corner where we parted ways, I asked to use her restroom as a long shot, and she said "No, sorry" and I felt like an idiot because I didn't have enough conviction behind my words. No further contact after that.

This is why I think the way I'm dating is the problem. Girls seem to be down, but once I get them out, they lose interest.

Couchsurfing might be the problem here.
did you meet this girl before? since "CS is not a dating site bullshit" she might have felt you where pushing for a date instead of intercultural exchange (lol)

Post: #19

(05-13-2013 12:37 PM)augen sehen Wrote:  My achilles heel is conversation - what kind of topics do you guys bring up? This is kind of a weak spot of mine. I'd like some help with emotionally stimulating conversation topics.

Get her talking about opinions, what she likes and dislikes.

"Do you like wearing a lot of jewelry or just a couple of small things? I can see you're not wearing any rings, but you have that neck chain..."

Every topic you hit, you can talk about your own opinion. This is where you seamlessly DHV.

"Yeah, I got this neck chain when I was in ... because my style is mostly ..."

Tell her what you actually think, actually feel and why. Don't just agree with anything she says in some vain attempt to enhance the "connection". Sometimes she'll tell you something and you'll respond "I'm the opposite...". That's OK.

"What do you think about that guy's facial hair? Gay? Or sexy?". There are a million things to talk about, you'll never run out of ideas. Keep it light.

Sometimes you can repeat back in your own words what she said. "Oh, so you like ... but you don't think much of ...?".

To use the example of you drinking G&T and her having Gluhwein. You can ask her if she would always get that, or did she just feel like a change today. You can ask if she feels some kind of nostalgia for winter things like Xmas when she drinks it. You can ask if it was summer right now and we were sitting under a shade umbrella on the patio, what would she drink? Then you could ask if she also drinks beer. Then has she tried those cherry beers they make in Belgium? etc etc.

All this time you are talking about your experiences and telling stories from your life as you go.

Since you're concentrating on her a lot, she will probably feel like she's qualifying to you since she's explaining what she likes and why she does things. You are not trying to be the entertainment and impress her. All you have to do is listen, talk about yourself and occasionally tease her about stuff, sometimes agree.

Since it's Couchsurfing, you can also go with
- Can you show me (the best clubs in town for hip hop music /or whatever)?
- I would like to take you to check out (this great party my friends put on once per year /or whatever, must be something that will be new and fun for her).

Today's heartiste is on topic:

Quote:Reading this study, you may be inclined to conclude that women just like to talk about themselves a lot, and love it when men leverage that female vanity to progress the courtship toward sex. Yes! A lot of romantic “connection” that women feel is so magical and fateful is just the man coolly sitting back and letting the woman yap a little, while he nods occasionally or touches her forearm for synchronicity.

Man: *silent*

Woman: “He understood me so well!”

Post: #20

(05-14-2013 08:21 AM)augen sehen Wrote:  It feels like getting her out to play mini golf or shoot pool is going to need a different approach to getting her back home than getting her out to drinks at a local bar so I'd like some explanation of how you'd get her back to your place.

If the date is in the daytime, what do you guys think about a picnic at a local park with frisbee (some other things to do on a picnic?), followed by wine and sandwiches, then hit up a bar on the way home and then invite her in? Do you think that's a good plan? How would I escalate touching in a park? The problem is, in Germany these days it isn't sunny so often so I'd need a second/third option in case its too cold or it rains.

*breaks out '02 game manual*
*blows off dust*

There are tons of ways to do this, i'll explain a typical old school game way.

The Set Up

At your house/flat/apartment/mom's basement
- put all your shoes by the front door
- turn off all the clocks, including your DVR/Cable Box.
- it doesn't hurt to bake some bread, cookies, or something that smells good that afternoon.
- it doesn't hurt to have a fold out bed/futon as your couch
- it doesn't hurt to have a 1 bedroom with your bed as the couch
- condoms need to be close at hand (even if you don't use em)
- have some candles, incense, or wine with CLEAN glasses at your spot. Or whatever the equivalent is in your scene. (coke, weed, beer, bibles opened to the proper verse)
- your place has to be clean - most importantly your BATHROOM HAS TO BE SPARKLING. In the Game version of Karate Kid, Mr. Miyagi has Daniel-San clean the toilet, tub, sink, and floors. And then build a pyramid of toilet paper.

So she comes to your hood on public transportation.
Meet her @ the train station. Hug immediately and break the touch barrier. You're starting kino early, and it escalates throughout the date.

Optional step
- You can "forget" something at your flat. I need to bring my passport, come with me. Go to your flat, make her come inside, shoes off/no shoes on the carpet...then immediately get your thing and bounce to fun date.

^she's been to your spot. She's crossed the threshold. You've immediately bounced afterwards. The next time she comes to your place, later tonight, it won't be like crossing some weird threshold. (this may be overkill in some cases, but if you mess with young chicks, you've got to put out fires before they start)

Stage 1 - The Fun Date
Go do fun date.
During fun date
- put your hands on her
- tease her
- get her to talk
- get her something to drink
- maybe get her something to nibble on

During this fun date, you're seeding the conversation with what happens next.

Traditionally, you talk about your awesome stamp collection or new puppy or cool art collection, photos from your trip to brazil - and this stuff is at your house. You OVERSELL it.

Stage 2 - The bounce

The bounce location - the venue change - is part of your modus operandi. And it is also as close as possible to your sex location. So when fun date is over, you've already got plan. You go to bounce location. Possibly alcohol related, fun, but not too fun.

This is where you slow the date down a bit, build your rapport. Kino should be easy at this point, because you're showing her how to shoot pool, or helping her put, or trading ice cream cones... You dial back the cocky and funny/bragging/demonstrations of high value - whatever you did at the front end of the date to break her out of her shell - you ease back.

Ideally the convo is flowing naturally at this point. You're continuing to seed the thing you have back at your flat.

Before you leave this venue, DO A BLADDER CHECK. I think someone here almost got the lay, but he took one of them long ass, I been drinking like a fish, pisses when they got back to the sex locale. When he came out, the vibe changed, and he lost the lay.

You're in the final stages, but you need to make sure that there are no snags

Stage 3 - End Game

Now a traditional date would have you back at the train station to see her off, end with a romantic kiss, send her off with butterflies. Hollywood stuff.

You do that nowadays, and she texts her girl that you were beta, and she gets her regular guy to come by and fuck her.

The San Fernando valley move, the Chatsworth Shuffle...is to bring her back to your spot under the "false" pretense of seeing your vietnamese potbelly pig.

A real chick knows what's up. You're giving her plausible deniability. This way things can just happen. She's not responsible for sleeping with a strange guy after a 2 glasses of wine and a game of 8 ball.

Now if you get through the door. Shoes off. Cause in your spot, you can't wear shoes on the rug/carpet..cold concrete floor...lulz.

If the kino worked, the sexual escalation worked, and you held out on the first kiss - now it should be ON.

If she's still a little skittish, glass of wine, turn on the television or some music, seat on the couch, and show her the prop, but continue with the kino, convo, and escalation.

Then you close the deal. If you don't know what to do @ this point, log on to RVF and someone will walk you through it.

.....
This is basically the same process with an afternoon/Day time date, but you may need to hit more of the "sweep you off your feet/whirlwind" type game to go the distance. You need to keep a girl on tilt long enough to get to a time frame when sex regularly happens (i.e, the sun is down, and after you bust a nut, it's not 9:30 pm)

Now the one thing i've left out, is what to do with her sidekick, her electronic chastity belt, the smartphone. Either you lay down the law early wrt to smart phones during the "fun" part of the date, or you have some kind of tech solution @ your crib

*builds Faraday cage*

In any event, this is the frame work with a few tweaks here and there to remove her mental obstacles to sex on the first date.

As players, we have to believe that if a chick says okay to a date, she's tacitly saying okay to sex with you...at some point. Game on a date is establishing that she was right to hang out with you, but also for you to negotiate when the sex is going to happen. (as opposed to when she wants it to happen)

WIA

Post: #21

Thank you so much WIA. I think the problem I'm seeing is because of a lack of a sexual frame (since the dates are from Coochsurfing or some other "social" meetup) and because I'm getting lazy with the dates.

However, I've done some "activity" dates earlier as well, namely hiking. I found it hard to escalate sexually when we're getting tired and sweaty and walking through the trails. I guess some activity dates work better and hiking is not one of them?

One thing hiking and coffee shop/bar dates have in common is a lot of conversation. Maybe that's why they both aren't working for me. I have gotten makeouts from both but not really been able to go all the way.

Post: #22

(05-15-2013 12:45 PM)augen sehen Wrote:  Thank you so much WIA. I think the problem I'm seeing is because of a lack of a sexual frame (since the dates are from Coochsurfing or some other "social" meetup) and because I'm getting lazy with the dates.

However, I've done some "activity" dates earlier as well, namely hiking. I found it hard to escalate sexually when we're getting tired and sweaty and walking through the trails. I guess some activity dates work better and hiking is not one of them?

One thing hiking and coffee shop/bar dates have in common is a lot of conversation. Maybe that's why they both aren't working for me. I have gotten makeouts from both but not really been able to go all the way.

Forget all that pickup lingo you learned... frame, approaches, "escalating sexually", kino, etc. You need to master the art of conversation before you can start smashing on dates. My guess is you are so focused on trying to practice all of the "game tactics" you've learned from books, blogs, and forums that it comes across as awkward in the real world. Girls may not be comfortable enough with you, but that doesn't mean your "sexual frame" was weak or you didn't "escalate" or "build enough attraction" the right way.

Go out and have a good time, that was the point of the exercise. If you think of yourself as some "PUA in training" you aren't going to get the results you are looking for.

Stick to drink dates for a while, it will allow you to loosen up a bit - also, activity dates may get you a friend, but it probably isn't going to get you laid. Do you have cool stories to tell? Ever live or visit anywhere interesting? Piquing a girl's interest is the first step to getting into her pants, but before you can do that you have to woo her with your tongue.

Post: #23

(05-15-2013 01:34 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-14-2013 08:21 AM)augen sehen Wrote:  It feels like getting her out to play mini golf or shoot pool is going to need a different approach to getting her back home than getting her out to drinks at a local bar so I'd like some explanation of how you'd get her back to your place.

If the date is in the daytime, what do you guys think about a picnic at a local park with frisbee (some other things to do on a picnic?), followed by wine and sandwiches, then hit up a bar on the way home and then invite her in? Do you think that's a good plan? How would I escalate touching in a park? The problem is, in Germany these days it isn't sunny so often so I'd need a second/third option in case its too cold or it rains.

*breaks out '02 game manual*
*blows off dust*

There are tons of ways to do this, i'll explain a typical old school game way.

The Set Up

At your house/flat/apartment/mom's basement
- put all your shoes by the front door
- turn off all the clocks, including your DVR/Cable Box.
- it doesn't hurt to bake some bread, cookies, or something that smells good that afternoon.
- it doesn't hurt to have a fold out bed/futon as your couch
- it doesn't hurt to have a 1 bedroom with your bed as the couch
- condoms need to be close at hand (even if you don't use em)
- have some candles, incense, or wine with CLEAN glasses at your spot. Or whatever the equivalent is in your scene. (coke, weed, beer, bibles opened to the proper verse)
- your place has to be clean - most importantly your BATHROOM HAS TO BE SPARKLING. In the Game version of Karate Kid, Mr. Miyagi has Daniel-San clean the toilet, tub, sink, and floors. And then build a pyramid of toilet paper.

So she comes to your hood on public transportation.
Meet her @ the train station. Hug immediately and break the touch barrier. You're starting kino early, and it escalates throughout the date.

Optional step
- You can "forget" something at your flat. I need to bring my passport, come with me. Go to your flat, make her come inside, shoes off/no shoes on the carpet...then immediately get your thing and bounce to fun date.

^she's been to your spot. She's crossed the threshold. You've immediately bounced afterwards. The next time she comes to your place, later tonight, it won't be like crossing some weird threshold. (this may be overkill in some cases, but if you mess with young chicks, you've got to put out fires before they start)

Stage 1 - The Fun Date
Go do fun date.
During fun date
- put your hands on her
- tease her
- get her to talk
- get her something to drink
- maybe get her something to nibble on

During this fun date, you're seeding the conversation with what happens next.

Traditionally, you talk about your awesome stamp collection or new puppy or cool art collection, photos from your trip to brazil - and this stuff is at your house. You OVERSELL it.

Stage 2 - The bounce

The bounce location - the venue change - is part of your modus operandi. And it is also as close as possible to your sex location. So when fun date is over, you've already got plan. You go to bounce location. Possibly alcohol related, fun, but not too fun.

This is where you slow the date down a bit, build your rapport. Kino should be easy at this point, because you're showing her how to shoot pool, or helping her put, or trading ice cream cones... You dial back the cocky and funny/bragging/demonstrations of high value - whatever you did at the front end of the date to break her out of her shell - you ease back.

Ideally the convo is flowing naturally at this point. You're continuing to seed the thing you have back at your flat.

Before you leave this venue, DO A BLADDER CHECK. I think someone here almost got the lay, but he took one of them long ass, I been drinking like a fish, pisses when they got back to the sex locale. When he came out, the vibe changed, and he lost the lay.

You're in the final stages, but you need to make sure that there are no snags

Stage 3 - End Game

Now a traditional date would have you back at the train station to see her off, end with a romantic kiss, send her off with butterflies. Hollywood stuff.

You do that nowadays, and she texts her girl that you were beta, and she gets her regular guy to come by and fuck her.

The San Fernando valley move, the Chatsworth Shuffle...is to bring her back to your spot under the "false" pretense of seeing your vietnamese potbelly pig.

A real chick knows what's up. You're giving her plausible deniability. This way things can just happen. She's not responsible for sleeping with a strange guy after a 2 glasses of wine and a game of 8 ball.

Now if you get through the door. Shoes off. Cause in your spot, you can't wear shoes on the rug/carpet..cold concrete floor...lulz.

If the kino worked, the sexual escalation worked, and you held out on the first kiss - now it should be ON.

If she's still a little skittish, glass of wine, turn on the television or some music, seat on the couch, and show her the prop, but continue with the kino, convo, and escalation.

Then you close the deal. If you don't know what to do @ this point, log on to RVF and someone will walk you through it.

.....
This is basically the same process with an afternoon/Day time date, but you may need to hit more of the "sweep you off your feet/whirlwind" type game to go the distance. You need to keep a girl on tilt long enough to get to a time frame when sex regularly happens (i.e, the sun is down, and after you bust a nut, it's not 9:30 pm)

Now the one thing i've left out, is what to do with her sidekick, her electronic chastity belt, the smartphone. Either you lay down the law early wrt to smart phones during the "fun" part of the date, or you have some kind of tech solution @ your crib

*builds Faraday cage*

In any event, this is the frame work with a few tweaks here and there to remove her mental obstacles to sex on the first date.

As players, we have to believe that if a chick says okay to a date, she's tacitly saying okay to sex with you...at some point. Game on a date is establishing that she was right to hang out with you, but also for you to negotiate when the sex is going to happen. (as opposed to when she wants it to happen)

WIA

So in my case I would be good for stages 1 and 2.
Stage 3 fucks me up because I live with my parents.
I can use a car for this, though I don't really understand how to escalate in this situation.

Post: #24

Quote:However, sometimes I get nervous and unsure of whether my advances will be welcome or how to take things forward. How do I get over this?

I think the only reasonable compromise in such a situation is to make small advances and, if you notice that she has pulled back from them, just go back to the lower, less threatening stage and start again. Certainly better than making no advances at all, because then your nervousness will consume you.

It differs from girl to girl (slightly), but I think this "ladder" is a good guide overall: http://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/the-...16552.html . If it helps you visualize how far you can go if you're not sure of her attraction, you should always be doing Incidental I and II things listed there. They're all safe and innocent, yet still work to connect you.

Post: #25

Thanks. I've read the escalation ladder before and even sent it to my friend to use for a date, but reading through it for real I realized I was basically trying to go from incidental Class I kino (accidental touching) directly to kissing. I was so afraid of being rejected during Class II kino that I was just trying to skip it. No wonder.