Post: #26

I like the logic of not going for numbers, specifically for night game.

But how about daygame? If I depend on girls asking me for numbers when I approach them during the day, I might get a number every 100 approaches.

Post: #27

(05-12-2013 03:42 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  I like the logic of not going for numbers, specifically for night game.

But how about daygame? If I depend on girls asking me for numbers when I approach them during the day, I might get a number every 100 approaches.

I'm no day game expert, but I'd say for day game if possible insta-date and push the interaction as far as possible but 9/10 times you're probably going to need to get the number and set things up for a later time.

I like Nomad's post and feel where he's coming from, an issue that a lot of us have are flakey numbers that don't come through. I like the idea of non-attachment with no emotional/mental investment, but it can get under a guys' skin sometimes when dealing with so much flaking.

It is really important to push the interaction as far as possible when doing night game, try to get the SNL and if you can't get them home, then settle for the number. Also pulling and banging them same night will really decrease the chances of them flaking the next time you hit them up.

The greater the connection and attraction you develop the greater the chances she'll be down to get together. In the past I would go for the number every time, but now I see that with some girls it's just a waste of time, because they might give me their number, but her interest level isn't high enough and it's more than likely she'll flake.

Also if the connection and attraction level isn't high enough also goes both ways, a lot of time I get a number from a girl who's a 6 that I'd be down to fuck that night when I'm drunk at the bar, but 2-3 days later when I think of following Roosh's text message model, I've already lost interest in them and don't really feel a strong enough desire to pursue, and thus never hit them up.

Now the goal is get as far as I can with a woman I'm interested in and fuck her that same night, if I can't do that, and I've made a solid connection and developed a good mutual attraction, then I will get her number if I feel she is interested enough in me, and I'm interested enough in her.

Also to touch on emotional investment, I've come along way and often times I genuinely don't care if she replies to me or not, but there are other times where I meet a fine chick that I am stoked on, and when she doesn't reply on some level I get a little bit let down, which brings my vibe down. It's lame, I know, but hey that's me being honest, life can be full of disappointments.

Post: #28

Here is my thinking why numbers don't work so good here in the US. The girls are, in general, very flaky BECAUSE us guys allow them to be. Not the guys on this forum but the other 99% of the guys out there. She may have given out her number to 10 guys that night and even if she flakes on ALL of them she will still have 8 of them kissing her ass. If instead, she lost 8 of those guys the moment she flaked she would change but that's not going to happen anything soon.

Think about it, what do women need from us these days? Unless they are interested in starting a family and looking for some daddy support not much. If they have a decent job they can pretty much take care of themselves financially. They get all the validation they need from posting some dumb pic on facebook. The get all the attention they need from the 99% of guys out there blowing up their text message and WhatsApp account. They can walk out there any night or day of the week and find 10 decent looking guys that will bang them. We are essentially giving away the milk for free so why should they buy the cow. Hell, why should they even behave in a reasonable manner. There is absolutely no penalty if a girl flakes on anyone so they just do whatever they feel like whenever they feel like it. Even if we deleted her phone number and never call her again, she still has 99 other idiots who will or she can just roll out any night of the week and pick up 10 more. And while sex can get them more emotionally involved it doesn't work as good as it used to. These days I feel that I am the one being used for sex. The girls get to call the shots on when and how they want to have sex. We are just standing around waiting to service them. Even when we roll out that is basically what we are doing for a SNL: looking for a girl that wants to have sex that night. (Look at what happened to Roosh when he came back and got his SNL. That's basically how I feel after most of my SNL here in the US.)

With that said, I haven't delete ALL of my numbers. There are some girls that are Ok, that do respond in a reasonable manner, that are not flaky BUT they are the exception by far - the 1%. The bottom line is, American girls today are flaky simply because we (us men) allow them to be. Worse, we allow them to be not only flaky but also unreasonable. Without any penalty for acting in a certain manner why would they or anyone do so. And I can promise you this is not going to get any better soon, it will only get worse.

Post: #29

(05-12-2013 10:49 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Here is my thinking why numbers don't work so good here in the US. The girls are, in general, very flaky BECAUSE us guys allow them to be. Not the guys on this forum but the other 99% of the guys out there. She may have given out her number to 10 guys that night and even if she flakes on ALL of them she will still have 8 of them kissing her ass. If instead, she lost 8 of those guys the moment she flaked she would change but that's not going to happen anything soon.

Think about it, what do women need from us these days? Unless they are interested in starting a family and looking for some daddy support not much. If they have a decent job they can pretty much take care of themselves financially. They get all the validation they need from posting some dumb pic on facebook. The get all the attention they need from the 99% of guys out there blowing up their text message and WhatsApp account. They can walk out there any night or day of the week and find 10 decent looking guys that will bang them. We are essentially giving away the milk for free so why should they buy the cow. Hell, why should they even behave in a reasonable manner. There is absolutely no penalty if a girl flakes on anyone so they just do whatever they feel like whenever they feel like it. Even if we deleted her phone number and never call her again, she still has 99 other idiots who will or she can just roll out any night of the week and pick up 10 more. And while sex can get them more emotionally involved it doesn't work as good as it used to. These days I feel that I am the one being used for sex. The girls get to call the shots on when and how they want to have sex. We are just standing around waiting to service them. Even when we roll out that is basically what we are doing for a SNL: looking for a girl that wants to have sex that night. (Look at what happened to Roosh when he came back and got his SNL. That's basically how I feel after most of my SNL here in the US.)

With that said, I haven't delete ALL of my numbers. There are some girls that are Ok, that do respond in a reasonable manner, that are not flaky BUT they are the exception by far - the 1%. The bottom line is, American girls today are flaky simply because we (us men) allow them to be. Worse, we allow them to be not only flaky but also unreasonable. Without any penalty for acting in a certain manner why would they or anyone do so. And I can promise you this is not going to get any better soon, it will only get worse.

The reality for a good looking American woman:

Post: #30

Not going for numbers is going to leave you frustrated. If you dont go home with someone that night you're screwed you've got no prospects.

Most quality girls I've gotten with took a few nights sometimes weeks. i tried the no number thing it was stupid but you'll figure that out.

Post: #31

Is getting a girl's number beta?

Post: #32

Nomad, you've got the wrong attitude about numbers. You don't get her number so you can call her again. You get her number in case you feel like it's worth going after again. You get her number because you were on the fence and wanted to see how you felt about her later.

I've gotten several numbers from girls I had very little interest in, girls whom I merely had a dance with and invited to drinks but they declined and offered their number. I could have called, and possibly scored a date, but after waiting a few days I decided I wasn't interested.

I don't delete numbers because I never record them. The only times I put names in my phone is if she writes it in herself. I don't care who they are or what I did with them. I never text, I only call (if I call), and I never setup a "date" for them. I only invite them to accompany with things I'd like to do for myself.

Post: #33

Patricia's Smartphone!

Post: #34

Never delete anything. Back up all the dummy numbers to a file and save it somewhere.

What do you get from deleting? Just a temporary mental fix.

No reason to delete anything if there's even a 1% chance of it going anywhere.

Post: #35

(05-12-2013 03:08 PM)All or Nothing Wrote:  

(05-12-2013 01:39 AM)soup Wrote:  The hottest girl I banged last year was sleeper number.

With these sleeper numbers, how do you hit them up later on?

Did she contact you out of the blue?

Actually, I kept her number around for a while, and she didn't seem interested or said she had a boy friend at the time. Eventually, I deleted he number.

Then she texted me out of the blue several months later, and I somehow remembered her number and guessed who it was. We had only met once.

Goes to show that there are times when the rules breakdown.

We met up and hit it like a hot knife through butter.

Post: #36

I am not saying don't get numbers. I am saying get numbers that have a higher probability of amounting to something and stop wasting your time on other 95%. I am in marketing. There is not a single marketing plan out there that does not involve a target market and heavy screening. Before I got caught up with "gaming" I had a much more selective and targeted approach. I screened women heavily and because I did I got much better results from the ones I did ended up interacting with.

Hey, if a shot gun approach works for someone by all means go for it. But given the amount of work involved vs the return (ROI) it's not the game I want to play. I already knew that only a very small number of girls I meet will actually amount to anything and I usually have a good idea of who these girls are from the very beginning.

It's ironic but after all these years I am actually having to relearn or unlearn things I already knew...

Post: #37

I like this attitude, but I think it would be more useful if modified slightly: make your goal to game girls so well that they give you their number instead of you having to ask for it.

If a girl voluntarily gives you her number, that's obviously a much bigger IOI than her giving it to you after you ask for it.

Easiest way to do this is probably by warming girls up well then withdrawing yourself when you can tell they're starting to bite, then re-appearing again awhile later after you let her sweat awhile to wonder if you'd come back.

I occasionally get girls who offer their number before I ask, but I've never thought of making that a standard play until I saw this thread. Might give it a try.

Post: #38

(05-13-2013 12:28 AM)soup Wrote:  

(05-12-2013 03:08 PM)All or Nothing Wrote:  

(05-12-2013 01:39 AM)soup Wrote:  The hottest girl I banged last year was sleeper number.

With these sleeper numbers, how do you hit them up later on?

Did she contact you out of the blue?

Actually, I kept her number around for a while, and she didn't seem interested or said she had a boy friend at the time. Eventually, I deleted he number.

Then she texted me out of the blue several months later, and I somehow remembered her number and guessed who it was. We had only met once.

Goes to show that there are times when the rules breakdown.

We met up and hit it like a hot knife through butter.

This is not a rule it's an exception and there are always exceptions. This also happened to me before but neither of us where sitting around waiting for it or expecting it to happen and none of us would turn it down if it did.

Post: #39

(05-13-2013 12:38 AM)scorpion Wrote:  I like this attitude, but I think it would be more useful if modified slightly: make your goal to game girls so well that they give you their number instead of you having to ask for it.

If a girl voluntarily gives you her number, that's obviously a much bigger IOI than her giving it to you after you ask for it.

Easiest way to do this is probably by warming girls up well then withdrawing yourself when you can tell they're starting to bite, then re-appearing again awhile later after you let her sweat awhile to wonder if you'd come back.

I occasionally get girls who offer their number before I ask, but I've never thought of making that a standard play until I saw this thread. Might give it a try.

Regardless of the reason, if a girl offers me her number I am not going to turn it down. I am not saying to be stupid. I am saying to be more careful about who you focus your time and energy on. I see a lot of guys go out there and waste a whole fucking night on girls that I knew within a short-time wasn't going anywhere. Now, my attitude is, if I don't get a good vibe within 15 mins, move on. I also take into account logistics. If they girl is in a big group - much more difficult. Basically, I am narrowing my target market to specific types of girls in specific situations. For example, I will rarely go after a girl in a 3-set or more now. She would have to be sending out some mad vibes.

Let me give a specific example. The last night I went out the hottest girls I met were two Swiss girls. But neither of them were drinking. Neither of them were talking about having fun or trying to have a good time. They were having fun by looking at the people walking by and laughing at them. They were both studying law. They were leaving for Key West the next morning. What was the probability I could get a SNL or even just a fun time from these girl that night? My estimation, less than 20%. And then what was I going to do with their number since they were heading to Key West the next day? I just let it go, moved on, even though I am pretty sure I could have gotten their number I just never bothered to even ask. I didn't even ask them their names. A lot of guys would have been more than happy to just talk to these girls all night and then be delighted to be able to add them to their facebook. Giving them the free validation they are looking for.

Post: #40

(05-12-2013 10:49 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Think about it, what do women need from us these days? Unless they are interested in starting a family and looking for some daddy support not much. If they have a decent job they can pretty much take care of themselves financially. They get all the validation they need from posting some dumb pic on facebook. The get all the attention they need from the 99% of guys out there blowing up their text message and WhatsApp account. They can walk out there any night or day of the week and find 10 decent looking guys that will bang them. We are essentially giving away the milk for free so why should they buy the cow. Hell, why should they even behave in a reasonable manner.

What women want from men (security and resources) is guaranteed by society to all women.

What men want from women (sex), men have to work for it.

Men have given up their end of the bargain upfront without condition, now they wonder what went wrong.

Post: #41

(05-13-2013 12:56 AM)Dillon Wrote:  

(05-12-2013 10:49 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Think about it, what do women need from us these days? Unless they are interested in starting a family and looking for some daddy support not much. If they have a decent job they can pretty much take care of themselves financially. They get all the validation they need from posting some dumb pic on facebook. The get all the attention they need from the 99% of guys out there blowing up their text message and WhatsApp account. They can walk out there any night or day of the week and find 10 decent looking guys that will bang them. We are essentially giving away the milk for free so why should they buy the cow. Hell, why should they even behave in a reasonable manner.

What women want from men (security and resources) is guaranteed by society to all women.

What men want from women (sex), men have to work for it.

Men have given up their end of the bargain upfront without condition, now they wonder what went wrong.

You've got it - bingo!

Post: #42

Its like if a law was passed that every single guy must get laid say twice a week by a random woman. ie getting laid was guaranteed by the government.

Would we still call women? Take them on dates? Even think about sex? or would we take them for granted and flake and mistreat/disrespect them?

This is exactly whats going on with women. They don't need men. Men have to jump bigger hoops, be more entertaining, take more shit, keep calling, because the bar has been raised so much since the basic needs are met for free.

Post: #43

Exactly and for those of us who believe that Game can completely compensate for this is delusional - we are talking about market forces here.

Post: #44

(05-13-2013 12:28 AM)soup Wrote:  Actually, I kept her number around for a while, and she didn't seem interested or said she had a boy friend at the time. Eventually, I deleted he number.

Then she texted me out of the blue several months later, and I somehow remembered her number and guessed who it was. We had only met once.

Goes to show that there are times when the rules breakdown.

We met up and hit it like a hot knife through butter.

Sounds like a great night.

You can doubt yourself as a player, but you made a strong impact on this chick that she hit you up months later.

(05-13-2013 12:59 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

(05-13-2013 12:56 AM)Dillon Wrote:  

(05-12-2013 10:49 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Think about it, what do women need from us these days? Unless they are interested in starting a family and looking for some daddy support not much. If they have a decent job they can pretty much take care of themselves financially. They get all the validation they need from posting some dumb pic on facebook. The get all the attention they need from the 99% of guys out there blowing up their text message and WhatsApp account. They can walk out there any night or day of the week and find 10 decent looking guys that will bang them. We are essentially giving away the milk for free so why should they buy the cow. Hell, why should they even behave in a reasonable manner.

What women want from men (security and resources) is guaranteed by society to all women.

What men want from women (sex), men have to work for it.

Men have given up their end of the bargain upfront without condition, now they wonder what went wrong.

You've got it - bingo!

So this thread is a complex way for you to complain about how women have it easier in terms of getting laid?

I bet you would be a lot happier if you stopped thinking about the way things are and how you wish they would be, and start doing what you want to do.

Post: #45

(05-12-2013 11:12 AM)Moma Wrote:  Now Kansas might be a different kettle of fish..

Not all that different.. sounds a bit better, but numbers are not all that valuable here. Daygame numbers pan out alright, nightgame tend to suck. Occasionally I get a good girl on nightgame, but lately I've been working solely daygame for phone numbers.

Kansas, you have to be able to put up with religion. Oftentimes some pretty hardcore religion.

Post: #46

@All or Nothing Look around you, how many of your male friends are happy? I bet there's a bunch of them just having the time of their lives. You think by banging women you are actually accomplishes something. You think you can fuck them into submission. Trust me, I have it much better than most men, I can leave this country, but when I look around at my friends and family and look at their relationships with women - I want to weep. As men, we barely have any dignity or self-respect anymore and someone does not take your dignity and self-respect, you have to give it up to them.

Post: #47

@Plutoman It doesn't matter whether it's night or day. The same rules applies for me. Doctor Love said it this way: unless a woman interest level in you is greater than 50% don't even bother getting her number. Your job is not to get numbers, it's to find the women with the 50+% interest level in you. And it's HER interest level you have to be looking at, not yours.

Post: #48

Yeah, I was just responding to the Kansas thing, as I'm in, you know, Kansas.

Sometimes, however, it's difficult to know whether a girl is at the +50% level, or not. Other times girls may seem to be over that, but then never reply. Or they seem to be below it, but then are really into you (rarer though).

The main aspect is that you cannot move forward at all without a number when an interaction is closed. I'll take a 1% chance on a girl who seems only a bit interested. I'll have a 20% chance on another girl, or a 50% on another, but those 1%'s add up and since you've already talked to the girl, might as well. I don't take an ego hit from the 1%'s that fail. I'll take an ego hit on the girls that ARE really into me, and then never reply.

Post: #49

Pluto, I was just using Kansas as a random example in comparison to Miami. Nomad's experience is primarily derived from Miami which is a big city. Miami has a lot of millionaires and is a very materialistic city so with all these factors, a lizard's head will get inflated. Experiences of others who live in other cities will be substantially different. I just like to remind people that this is not how ALL Americans act. Miami is a small subset of the United States which is a county of about 330 million people. To say lizards are flaky has a lot of grounds but I certainly it won't be at the rate of some of the cities that are being used as a template to make these claims.

We adjust our approach based on the cities we are in. In Miami, I have had to go hard and I am turning it notch by notch as we go out as per Nomad's observation and suggestion.

My strengths in intellectual convo are useless here. What I have to do is fall back on my original gorilla tactics and go hard like Z-bo in the paint. That's what works in Miami. This is not the city where intellectuals flock to live.

It's akin to going to Colombia and getting upset because everyone is speaking Spanish. Unfortunately, when in Rome, do as the Romans do, even if we don't necessarily like lasagna.

P.S. I even stopped wearing blazers and trousers cos it wasn't doing a damn thing. I am now wearing cheap t-shirts and jeans and just going in like a FOB from the islands. It's much more fun for me.

Post: #50

@Plutoman Regardless of where you are at what you are looking for are universal IOIs (Indicators Of Interest), for example:

If you move into a girls intimate space (less than 1 ft) and she doesn't move back that's a good IOI.
If you touch a girl in an intimate manner, legs, lower back, waist, and she doesn't tense up or move away that's a good IOI.
If she ask you your name that's a good IOI.

You get the picture. Mystery said you need at least 3 IOI and I would agree with that. But even with good IOIs it doesn't mean
she won't flake. For example, she could very well like you and find you attractive but also have a boyfriend. Once the night is
over and she has to face that reality the next day she flakes. You can't completely remove flaking, I am just trying to reduce it.

It all comes down to ROI: return on investment. If your time and energy is not worth much then you can invest more of it for
little return. My time and energy is very expensive right now, I can't afford to waste it. For example, my minimum billable
hourly rate is $100. If I spend 4 hrs on a girl with nothing in return that's $400! I can't go out 4 nights a week so when I do
go out I have to make that time count!