Post: #26

And do not OP, read and digest the post above. ^

"If you're not setting a personal record every time you hit the gym, you're doing something wrong. Think about it: when you workout you're creating a stimulus that makes you body think fuck, I need to grow or next time this lion or whatever the massive weight I'm pushing away is going to kill me"

What is this? Oh I know, its a copied and pasted mantra that has been thrown around all too often.

Broz or whatever his name is does something similar but it revolves around 4 moves, Front, back squats, clean and jerk and snatch. This is 6 days a week, maybe twice a day and is only used for those who are competing and have been doing it for a while.

You will not make gains doing max/failure stuff. You burn yourself out easily.

Post: #27

Thanks for the advice guys, looks like I'll be tearing it up in the weight room and dinner table



Swole life.

Post: #28

(05-07-2013 06:27 PM)Power_Ranger Wrote:  And do not OP, read and digest the post above. ^

"If you're not setting a personal record every time you hit the gym, you're doing something wrong. Think about it: when you workout you're creating a stimulus that makes you body think fuck, I need to grow or next time this lion or whatever the massive weight I'm pushing away is going to kill me"

What is this? Oh I know, its a copied and pasted mantra that has been thrown around all too often.

Broz or whatever his name is does something similar but it revolves around 4 moves, Front, back squats, clean and jerk and snatch. This is 6 days a week, maybe twice a day and is only used for those who are competing and have been doing it for a while.

You will not make gains doing max/failure stuff. You burn yourself out easily.

The only way you can make gains is through pushing yourself to your limits. If you're not providing a stimulus that your body has to respond and adapt to then your body has no need to grow, it's as simple as that.

The workout you mentioned is ridiculously stupid and not what I'm recommending at all. Besides the fact that the 4 moves you mentioned are skill-based moves which have a high risk of injury if performed incorrectly, my own workout is a total of 4 sets every 6 days.

Of course you'll burn out easily if you work out 12x a week.

Post: #29

my goal is to beat my log book every time, whether that is more reps or more weight. and i do shoot for failure on most lifts, i.e. push as hard as I can until I can't.

that isn't unreasonable.

it has to be done with sanity though, i'm talking about adding 5 lbs or 1 or 2 reps each time, not big risky jumps.

also, not til failure on squats or deads or any of the oly moves.

Post: #30

You shouldn't be going to failure, you should be gradually increasing your reps/weight. This is how poor form and injuries happen.

5 lbs increases is a lot when your talking about a bicep exercise.

So much garbage in this thread, I really feel bad for someone actually following advice on RVF on bodybuilding.

Quote:Front squats

Why do these? I can tell you why, they're awesome for your ego and abs/core/legs.

Well your 1/3 here. Front squats are the squat that has your torso almost completely upright so in reality there is almost no core/abs work. Exercises like deadlifts and lower back squats work the core/abs because you have to use those muscles as stabilizers to keep your back straight.

Quote:I see no need to have protein powders if you're eating right. Food>shakes unless you are stuck for time.

Explain to me how I am going to reach 200g protein if you can only eat 2500 calories a day.

Quote:Dont use straps

So if I want to lift 450 lbs off the floor I should be dependent on my wrist strength? Whats stronger, your back or your wrists? DL's arent a wrist isolation exercise.

Quote:Straps are dangerous because they override your bodys natural defence to prevent injury.

Wtf is this garbage? Stupid comment based on nothing.

Quote:In terms of training, all you really need is the Big 3 (Leg Press, Bench Press and Chinups)

Deads, squats, military press, bench, dips are way closer to the big 3 than leg press and chinups.

Quote:You also only have to do 1 set for each exercise (but to absolute failure). Think "If I had a gun to my head could I push it any further?". Even when you're pushing and the weight isn't moving, hold it up there for 10 more seconds. Remember: every rep is a warm-up for the rep where it absolutely burns (which is when the adaptive response of growth will occur).

Stupidity. The burn has nothing to do with muscle growth. This is a recipe for injury right here. Adaptive response of growth will occur? Do you even know what your talking about?

Post: #31

(05-08-2013 06:15 AM)Valentine Wrote:  The only way you can make gains is through pushing yourself to your limits. If you're not providing a stimulus that your body has to respond and adapt to then your body has no need to grow, it's as simple as that.

The workout you mentioned is ridiculously stupid and not what I'm recommending at all. Besides the fact that the 4 moves you mentioned are skill-based moves which have a high risk of injury if performed incorrectly, my own workout is a total of 4 sets every 6 days.

Of course you'll burn out easily if you work out 12x a week.

The only way you make gains is through constistant exercise that is never the same on any given day. My upper body days are never the same, neither are my leg days.

Going to failure and going for max efforts do not mix. One is a style BB'ers use and the other is the upper-most strength training for your body.

Neither sit well with each other.

The workout I mentioned is the elite workout that broz sends his people through. Two of the moves are skill based but he doesn't take on newbies but its a perfect example of going for maximal strength.

The guys he trains are beasts after a while and never do this failure training a lot of people speak of.

Strength training is best overall in the long run.

Post: #32

(05-08-2013 11:47 AM)Power_Ranger Wrote:  The only way you make gains is through constistant exercise that is never the same on any given day. My upper body days are never the same, neither are my leg days.

Wrong. There are several ways to make gains, there is not "only one way". The best way to make gains is to stick to a proper split and gradually increase the weight lifted. Switching everything up all the time is going to do nothing for making your muscles bigger. You are supposed to stick to a split for a MINIMUM of 6 weeks and if you are making gains you like then stick to it. If its not working to your expectations then tweak your split and try it again for another 6 weeks. Muscle does not grow instantly, you need to watch your progress (or lack there of) over time and judge whether its working or not.

How can you progressively lift more weight if every body part workout is different each time?

Post: #33

(05-08-2013 11:45 AM)Jaylow Wrote:  Well your 1/3 here. Front squats are the squat that has your torso almost completely upright so in reality there is almost no core/abs work. Exercises like deadlifts and lower back squats work the core/abs because you have to use those muscles as stabilizers to keep your back straight.

I got this off the BB'ers in my gym who use the machine smith for front squats. I told them to front squat hold the 140kg I was doing at that moment. They couldn't even do that.

Almost no core/ab work, are you serious? I already feel this post of mine will be like hitting a wall. Typical ignorance.

Quote:Explain to me how I am going to reach 200g protein if you can only eat 2500 calories a day.

I used to have protein powder, its only good for those trying to stay within a certain weight range.

Eggs, milk, peanut butter, tuna/fish, Nuts. None of them are main meals and I get enough protein in my diet.

Quote:So if I want to lift 450 lbs off the floor I should be dependent on my wrist strength? Whats stronger, your back or your wrists? DL's arent a wrist isolation exercise.

wtf is this garbage? Stupid comment based on nothing.

Way to not udnerstand the deadlift, or grip exercises in general.

I see you're a fan of rounded back syndrome or the lazy mixed-grip deadlift, which is just as bad.

If you cannot lift a weight without compromising your backs shape, your body is weak in certain areas. Straps are easymode grip and bypass the regimental strength gains you get in your hands and arms which will allow your back to grow stronger.

I can Dl 235 at the moment, double overhand. It took me 3 years to build it but my back is straight except at the very top but that is because I am tall.

I can tell you're a BB guy.

Post: #34

I think that a lot of you guys are going for a non existent quick fix. Like jaylow said you don't need to do something different every time, you just need to settle in for the long haul. I've been lifting weights since I was 14 and have never used protein powder (my dad who's an ex bodybuilder said that it won't help much if you're already eating a very high protein diet) and over the two and a half years I've been lifting weights, I've gone from lanky to very big for a 16 year old (16.5 inch arms, lean enough to have a six pack etc.). So don't worry too much about 'bro science' like straps override your bodies defence mechanism? And just be prepared to workout hard for three or four years before you look like a fitness model (assuming you don't juice of course).

Post: #35

Anecdotally, when I upped my clean carbs and fats my lifts went up (fast). This is plateau buster for me. Of course I eat fairly healthy, so its not like I am pigging on pizza and cookies.

Yesterday postworkout, I had 6 eggs cooked in a large dollop of coconut oil, rice, black beans, 8 oz of salmon. Then a blended protein shake of 1 cup of 2% milk, 30g of protein powder, almonds, strawberries and blueberries- basically a 24oz fruit smoothie. Eat all of this and tell me you won't bulk. Theres almost 100 grams of protein here in this meal alone. Probably about 50g of fat. Another 60-70 g of carbs. Delicious.

As for this bickering, there seems to be 1 true thing. Either lift heavier weights, lift the weights more time, decrease the resting times, or static holds. Thats basically all exercise. I personally switch it up all the time- based on whats working/or how I "feel". Only goal-try to move all my core lifts (squat, deadlift, bench, press, chinups/pullups, and rows) up.

Post: #36

(05-08-2013 11:56 AM)Power_Ranger Wrote:  I got this off the BB'ers in my gym who use the machine smith for front squats. I told them to front squat hold the 140kg I was doing at that moment. They couldn't even do that.

Almost no core/ab work, are you serious? I already feel this post of mine will be like hitting a wall. Typical ignorance.

Where did I mention smith squats? Front squats have been touted as this amazing core workout when every single squat you can do works the core more. You were wrong and are bringing other things into a discussion that have nothing to do with anything.

Quote:I used to have protein powder, its only good for those trying to stay within a certain weight range.

Eggs, milk, peanut butter, tuna/fish, Nuts. None of them are main meals and I get enough protein in my diet.

Stay within a certain weight range? How does protein effect your weight? Explain to me how I am going to hit 200g protein a day when a person can only eat 2500 calories using those foods you listed. You dodged the comment.

Quote:Way to not udnerstand the deadlift, or grip exercises in general.

I see you're a fan of rounded back syndrome or the lazy mixed-grip deadlift, which is just as bad.

If you cannot lift a weight without compromising your backs shape, your body is weak in certain areas. Straps are easymode grip and bypass the regimental strength gains you get in your hands and arms which will allow your back to grow stronger.

Mixed grip is as bad as using straps? Straps cause back rounding? Working your hands and arms allows your back to grow stronger?
I feel bad for anyone taking advice from you.

Straps are easymode grip and thats the point. Why would you do a heavy compound and be held back by your wrist strength? Do isolation wrist exercises for wrists, do heavy deadlifts for legs/core/back.

Post: #37

Jaylow he used kg earlier in the paragraph so >500lb is good for 3 years.

To all the guys giving advice here what are your numbers or show us a pic of your physique. Too many guys around here are giving specific advice and they either aren't strong or don't look good

Post: #38

Valentine, your advice is full retard.

The Big 3 does not include the leg press or chin-ups in any conceivable way.

The Big 3, if you want to build a solid foundation, are the squat, deadlift and a press (military and bench).

The link 'explaining' why the back squat is bad, says: "Reason 1: All the dip shit meat heads do it."

All the gym losers that wanna be cool do chin-ups (or curls) and leg press. All weight lifters squat.

Are you trolling or just stupid?

Post: #39

jaylow:

I eat about 250-300 grams of protein per day

here is the normal breakdown:

250 x 4 = 1000 kcal protein
200 x 4 = 800 kcal carb
50 x 9 = 450 kcal fat

2250 kcal total per day

See how easy that was?

today for example I've eaten:

Oats/whey/banana
brown rice / chicken
brown rice / chicken
brown rice / chicken

and will eat salmon / broc for dinner

easy

I'm not posting any pics of myself up here but i will tell you that my stats are 6'4 255 18.8% BF measured weekly by BodyMetrix Personal Scanner ( http://www.intelametrix.com/update/ )

I DL about 470 right now
Squat 350
Bench 270

bench is low but I've never really worked on it til now

I can do weighted pull ups at my bodyweight + 35 lbs
Power clean 240
Power snatch 180
Clean and Jerk 250
snatch 190

These are all respectable numbers, nothing crazy, but pretty good for a recreational guy

Increasing reps/weight and training to failure are not mutually exclusive

If you have a spotter on the bench and you are trying to increase reps, why not go to failure? If the weight is something you can move 8-10 times you're not going to get injured as if you were trying to 1RM with failure.

I dont understand what is so hard to understand about that.

I always work my snatches and clean and jerks up to the point where I miss - is that failure?

No failure lifting on squat and dl

I do a combination of powerlifting, oly lifting and yes body building exercises -

I used to think that was stupid, body building, but you know what? What is stupid is judging other people's personal goals against your own. I've grown out of that.

So yes, after I do weighted pull ups, up right rows, deadlifts and whatnot, I'll do a few sets of curls til burnout. I call them my body building burnout lifts and I always end my sessions with them.

as it relates to straps - i've never used them and yes at points my grip strength was the limiting factor but I worked through it and all is well now. the limiting factor is my first pull off the ground. but i work on that all the time. I expect to hit 500 in a few weeks.

a five lb increase on a bicep movement is a lot, but if you are adding 5 lbs after hitting 10-12 reps per set, all it will do is reduce your reps back to 3-5 and you start over from there. its not unhealthy.

anyway, so much dumb ass shit in this thread from people that probably don't even lift for real. i know i'm in the gym 5 days a week and have been for a while, making changes to my body, eating the right food, setting PR's consistently, dropping fat and adding muscle and I'm 6'4".

And that is what OP wanted to know - how do tall guys add size.

Post: #40

(05-07-2013 04:29 PM)Power_Ranger Wrote:  - Bench press
- Incline bench press
- Overhead standing press
- Overhead bench press
- Standing one arm DB press/push press

I've added two pulley machines to my workout on chest/arm days.

My leg days comprise of the following.

- Front squats
- Back squats
- Deadlifts (on wednesdays)

Curious - why don't you do pullups/chinups?

Post: #41

(05-08-2013 02:20 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  jaylow:

I eat about 250-300 grams of protein per day

here is the normal breakdown:

250 x 4 = 1000 kcal protein
200 x 4 = 800 kcal carb
50 x 9 = 450 kcal fat

2250 kcal total per day

See how easy that was?

today for example I've eaten:

Oats/whey/banana
brown rice / chicken
brown rice / chicken
brown rice / chicken

and will eat salmon / broc for dinner

Good post. Only problem is that I cant eat chicken 20 times a week, I would get bored of it and probably throw up around the 6th or so chicken session let alone having this as a long term strategy. I also eat around .6 - .75g per lbs of body weight in fat because hitting your fat macro has so many complexion/health/mental health benefits which makes it impossible to hit 200g protein a day without whey protein.

A bulking 200 lbs male should be having bare minimum 80g fat a day. Your fat intake is very low which is why you can get away with so much protein. If you are trying to make muscle (which we are talking about) you need to be in a calorie surplus which means bulking not cutting. So you need to increase your fat even further than the bare minimum requirement of .40g of fat per pound you have.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread...=121703981

2. Fats: Generally speaking, although the body can get away with short periods of very low fat, in the long run your body NEEDS fat to maintain health, satiety, and sanity. Additionally - any form of high intensity training will benefit from a 'fat buffer' in your diet - which controls free radical damage & inflammation. General guides:
Average or low bodyfat: [between 0.40 - 1g total weight/ pounds]

Post: #42

(05-08-2013 04:06 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  

(05-08-2013 02:20 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  jaylow:

I eat about 250-300 grams of protein per day

here is the normal breakdown:

250 x 4 = 1000 kcal protein
200 x 4 = 800 kcal carb
50 x 9 = 450 kcal fat

2250 kcal total per day

See how easy that was?

today for example I've eaten:

Oats/whey/banana
brown rice / chicken
brown rice / chicken
brown rice / chicken

and will eat salmon / broc for dinner

Good post. Only problem is that I cant eat chicken 20 times a week, I would get bored of it and probably throw up around the 6th or so chicken session let alone having this as a long term strategy. I also eat around .6 - .75g per lbs of body weight in fat because hitting your fat macro has so many complexion/health/mental health benefits which makes it impossible to hit 200g protein a day without whey protein.

A bulking 200 lbs male should be having bare minimum 80g fat a day. Your fat intake is very low which is why you can get away with so much protein. If you are trying to make muscle (which we are talking about) you need to be in a calorie surplus which means bulking not cutting. So you need to increase your fat even further than the bare minimum requirement of .40g of fat per pound you have.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread...=121703981

2. Fats: Generally speaking, although the body can get away with short periods of very low fat, in the long run your body NEEDS fat to maintain health, satiety, and sanity. Additionally - any form of high intensity training will benefit from a 'fat buffer' in your diet - which controls free radical damage & inflammation. General guides:
Average or low bodyfat: [between 0.40 - 1g total weight/ pounds]

admittedly, the one area i tend to go over is in fats. in fact, I just had two TBSP of PB when I got home. I just can't resist. Nevertheless, I'll still be around 2500 kcal even with hitting the 80 grams of fat.

with respect to eating chicken all the time, I try to mix it up:

shrimp/crab
cod
flounder
ground turkey
occasional red meat
salmon

but i do end up coming back to chicken more often than not. it is the best $ value for protein and when done right it really is easy to eat. put salsa on it, hot sauce, plain with salt, it works for me.

I've been at this long enough now that I dont care anymore about eating beyond getting my macros in.

I have tupperwares filled with 50 g protein and 50 g cho in my fridge (7 oz chicken and 65 grams brown rice (uncooked)) just waiting for me to eat. bags filled with frozen cod, salmon, and flounder in the freezer.

its a fucking job and i treat it as such.

Post: #43

I figured I might as well weigh in on some of the crazy things floating around on this thread.

1) Front squats are awesome and definitely work your core. High bar and low bar squats are also awesome and work your core if you do them right. You really can't go wrong with any of these lifts. If your main focus is core strength from squats all these exercises pale to the zercher squat and one shoulder barbell squat. Those 2 moves are kind of advanced though so I would stay away from them until you are stronger.

2)If you want to gain weight eat more food more often. It's that simple. Everybody always harps on macros and micros and over analyzing diet. When you are a beginner you should only be focused on eating more and then clean up your diet after you have gained some weight.

3)I laughed at the "Big 3" list of leg presses. If you follow power lifting school of thought the big three are low bar squat, bench, and sumo deadlift. If you follow bill starr's big three program (which was my first program) the lifts are high bar squat, bench, and power clean. The truth is there are tons of other big three lists out there but they all follow the basic rule of being free weight barbell lifts. the template for every decent big three list is a squat, a press, and a pull from the floor.

4) Stay away from smith machines. They are evil.

5) There are tons of good beginner programs out there. My favorites that I recommend are starting strength, stronglifts 5x5, Bill Starr's beginner programs, or Dan John's rapid accent Program. Links posted below.

6) This is my beginners program I made and everyone who has used this has had good results. I gave this its own number because I don't think my name is worth of the company above in number 5.

Workouts A and B alternate for 3 non-consecutive days per week. Each workout add 5 pounds to each lift except the Deadlift (you add 10 pounds to that). Start really light

Workout A
Deadlift 5x5
Standing Overhead Press 5x5
Dips 5 sets max reps
Chipups 5 sets max reps

Workout B
Squat 5x5
Bench 5x5
Pushups 5 sets max reps
Pullups 5 sets max reps


http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/T...r_Programs

http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-b...g-program/

http://oldschooltrainer.com/bill-starrs-5-x-5-training/ use the “Big 3″ Program or the Beginner 5×5

http://www.davedraper.com/fusionbb/showt...tid/14547/

Post: #44

Quote:A bulking 200 lbs male should be having bare minimum 80g fat a day.

Indeed, but the whole game changes when you're on exogenous hormones. I've seen guys go as low as 40 grams of fat a day and they're sex drive is still as strong.

Post: #45

If you're tall (especially 6'2 and over) you should think twice about using Powerlifting moves to get big otherwise you will end up with severe back injuries, or shouldercuff injuries...as the twins say, you dont want to snap some shit up cuz trust me, it will affect you for the long term.

Substitute the Benchpress with the Incline Press
Substitute the backsquat with the Front Squat (try it with straps and a 5lb plate under your heels if you are not flexible), otherwise use the leg press ( a good tip, the single leg press is a great exercise, it was the main one used by the Australian cycling team)
Substitute the Deadlift with Rackpulls and leg curls
substitute the barbell row with T-bar rows on a chest rest.

it's for your safety, trust me.
that's my honest opinion.

Post: #46

Everyone is different. Lots of good advice here. Whichever you feel is the right way to go then try it. If it doesn't work then move on.

Post: #47

(05-07-2013 04:54 PM)Valentine Wrote:  More info on High Intensity Training here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rNm4kSl3Og

More info on why (back) squats are terrible for your body: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF7FJsDrpWY

Hey Valentine,

Maybe you can give me some advice.

My situation:

I'm between 28 - 32, classic skinny ectomorph, 1.8m tall. Did various kinds of sports in the past but could never stick to weight training cause the routines the gym trainers gave me lasted too long and bored me (1 hour+).

But now I've been working a HIT programme for about 2 months with a trainer on a special HIT workout machine. I train twice a week since I seem to be recovering well in between training sessions. Although I don't know exactly how much I've been pulling / pushing / lifting according to my trainer I've been improving consistently. (I don't want to know the numbers as I'd rather focus on doing my best and pushing until failure.)

Everything seems to be going great except I'm not gaining weight at all. I literally weigh the same as I did before I started but I'm a lot stronger. My thighs and arms feel a little bigger but the scales say I'm the same.

My trainer says that there's going to be a limit to how I'm going to look because of my body type. While I don't have delusions of being a body-builder I was hoping I could at least get to some kind of bruce-lee, surfer body type I think it's been described as lean fit.

I must be eating enough other wise I wouldn't be getting stronger all the time, right? (I eat Paleo style btw?)

Or is it just too soon to worry about that? We've just started splitting the routines into a whole body and lower workout and in a couple of weeks we'll expand to 3 different workouts, whole body, upper and lower.

Is my dream of becoming lean / fit on HIT + Paleo unrealistic as an ectomorph or is it too soon to be worrying about it?

Post: #48

^^^

You complain about being skinny and wonder why? You're doing exactly what people who want to cut weight would do.

You're not willing to put in the work and you're already placing limits on yourself. You'll never reach your goal that way.

Post: #49

In what sense? I am doing exactly what my trainer is telling me to do and i'm getting stronger.

Post: #50

(05-09-2013 11:01 AM)WesternCancer Wrote:  ^^^

You complain about being skinny and wonder why? You're doing exactly what people who want to cut weight would do.

You're not willing to put in the work and you're already placing limits on yourself. You'll never reach your goal that way.

(05-09-2013 01:07 PM)IntrovertSuccess Wrote:  In what sense? I am doing exactly what my trainer is telling me to do and i'm getting stronger.

The wit of Mark Rippetoe
You guys that worry about eating clean are actually merely bodybuilders looking for justification for your obsession with abs. You cannot get big and strong on 3000 kcal/day. And you cannot eat 7000/day and eat perfectly "clean".

And folks, for weight-gaining purposes, "eating clean" is not a useful concept. Big Macs are.

The link about barbell squatting being bad is Fucking Retarded and the poster should be shat on.

More funny quotes about squatting

When asked to "explain how deep squats won't screw up your femur/hips," so the person posting could explain it to his friend who believes that deep squats are harmful:

"Just because some jackass asserts a thing does not mean that it is worthy of refutation. If the same guy tells you that every space shuttle launch perturbs the Earth's orbit, and that the cumulative effects are just about to start the process of the loss of the atmosphere into space, thus creating a vacuum that will destroy all life on the planet in approximately 36 hours, would you deem this necessary to refute? How much time would you spend explaining to him why this cannot happen? Would not your time be spent better doing other things? And if you devise a concise explanation, why would you assume he would understand?"


"Yes, if you squat wrong it fucks things up. If you squat correctly, those same fucked-up things will unfuck themselves."


Anyone who says that full squats are "bad for the knees" has, with that statement, demonstrated conclusively that they are not entitled to an opinion about the matter. People who know nothing about a topic, especially a very technical one that requires specific training, knowledge, and experience, are not due an opinion about that topic and are better served by being quiet when it is asked about or discussed. For example, when brain surgery, or string theory, or the NFL draft, or women's dress sizes, or white wine is being discussed, I remain quiet, odd though that may seem. But seldom is this the case when orthopedic surgeons, athletic trainers, physical therapists, or nurses are asked about full squats.


The full squat is a perfectly natural position for the leg to occupy. That's why there's a joint in the middle of it, and why humans have been occupying this position, both unloaded and loaded, for millions of years. Much longer, in fact, than quasi-intellectual morons have been telling us that it's "bad" for the knees.