Post: #1

http://itsybitsysteps.com/14-year-old-ch...n-shoebox/

The "alleged" killer:



The story is horrific and she deserves to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law; however, the comments on the article are interesting and awful. Let's step through some of them.

“She's 14 - she needs help - probably felt very alone and totally frightened by her situation. Killing the baby was horrible of course - but putting her in prison for life or some major length like that isn't going to do anyone any good.”

Except the baby boy she murdered.

“Planned Parenthood is a life saver. WOMEN NEED THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE..so sittuations this HORRIFIC dont happen. If abortion was illegal this would be happeneing much more often. SAD..so sad”

Great logic. Abortion is legal, generally. States cannot restrict any abortion in the first trimester. If this woman is arguing for legal 3rd trimester abortion, she should check up the Kermit Gosnell trial. While I am ambivalent about 1st trimester abortion, I am 100% against late term abortion.

“What's sad is our teens have no real knowledge of sex and pregnancy and birth now a days with all this abstinence only training. I feel for this little girl and for the poor infant that lost its life in such a horrific manner. She is obviously mentally disturbed, to try and flush the baby and then to suffocate it, its just crazy. I hope she gets the help she need while in prison.”

Already, women are building her defense – you think they would do the same for a man? And this BS about how only teens know about sex and pregnancy is from abstinence-only education is, frankly, ignorant. Teen girls know damn well what they are doing. This woman apparently thinks if girls are told about what pregnancy is, they wouldn’t do what? Have sex? Get pregnant?

This comment quoted above spawned a long comment section. Here is another gem in the thread:

“In a society where there is so much information and resources available, why are so many so ignorant and end up pregnant? The media,video games,etc pushes sex and the young girls and women respond. No one wants to really take a look at this and make change due freedom of speech, and ratings. Dolls are sexier, self-esteem is lower,there are teen mom shows glamorizing it, music/shows promotes sex and demeans women, young girls are self medicating in order to perform.”

First point, is sex is certainly pushed by the media. Feminists have long fought to be sluts with social approval – although, there is criticism of the sexualization of women in the media. However, this is another implicitly blank-slatist argument. Women are responding to alphas and sexy men running the show. Eliminating media influence can't stop the programming of human sexuality.

Second, this woman wants to alter the 1st amendment so that the media won’t be able to sexualize women they way they do – think that will apply to men? I made an argument once in school in a paper that if feminists want to ban pornography, they will have to ban romance novels and all that garbage, as well – for gender equality. It did not go over well, but the point here is that women want the beauty “standards” lowered, while they jack up the bar for men – novelized in Fifty Shades of Grey.

The mother of all hamsterbations in the comments is this:

“I hope the mother can wake up and realize she wasn't at fault”

I don’t need to tell you this is bullshit. She fucked up. Either women have agency or they do not. If they don’t, then no more voting, property owning or anything. If they do (which they do), then they have to be held responsible for their actions. Now, it seems this young lady was in a tough spot – according to her perception, so she could be dead-wrong – but she killed her son. A new-born baby, born into this world scared and confused, got drowned in a toilet by her own mother. Nothing, in my mind, can be so horrific, disgusting and downright awful. You murder your children – burn in Hell.

Telling this woman she wasn’t at fault won’t help her, it will hurt her. She needs to come to terms with the fact she killed her son. She obviously felt guilty, as she hid her pregnancy and hid the body. So, she clearly feels guilty, but what comes next is important for her psychology. A psychologically healthy person will admit what they did was wrong, and work to come to terms with what they did. Sometimes people in this sort of situation, when they get out of prison, they will dedicate their lives to some caused related to childbirth or adoption.

“Great job standing up to a religious bully with class, Ebony. You are an inspiration. More power to women to make your own decisions about your bodies.”

A live child is not a decision about your body. Period.

Post: #2

Just a few things here:

(05-02-2013 02:09 AM)2Wycked Wrote:  The mother of all hamsterbations in the comments is this:

“I hope the mother can wake up and realize she wasn't at fault”

I don’t need to tell you this is bullshit. She fucked up. Either women have agency or they do not. If they don’t, then no more voting, property owning or anything. If they do (which they do), then they have to be held responsible for their actions. Now, it seems this young lady was in a tough spot – according to her perception, so she could be dead-wrong – but she killed her son. A new-born baby, born into this world scared and confused, got drowned in a toilet by her own mother. Nothing, in my mind, can be so horrific, disgusting and downright awful. You murder your children – burn in Hell.

Telling this woman she wasn’t at fault won’t help her, it will hurt her. She needs to come to terms with the fact she killed her son.

I caught this comment in the link, and I think you may have misread Ebony here. The full statement:

Quote:I hope the mother can wake up and realize she wasn't at fault but her daughter could have survived this had she been able to talk with her about it.

I think she is referring to the mother of the 14 year old, not the mother of the murdered child (who is the 14 year old). I don't think she's saying that the 14 year old wasnt at fault, at least not in that particular comment. She is saying that her mother wasn't at fault.

Quote:“Great job standing up to a religious bully with class, Ebony. You are an inspiration. More power to women to make your own decisions about your bodies.”

A live child is not a decision about your body. Period.

I only got to the entrance of this debate, but I'm not sure they were saying that either. That lady Rebecca responded to Ebony and moved the discussion into the realm of abortion by claiming that it was illegal/wrong/etc. Ebony and some other women seemed to be responding to that claim. I think here Ebony is being congratualted for defending the idea of abortion, not the murder itself. I don't see too many of the commenters in that thread openly disputing the notion that the murder of the live child somehow qualifies as a "decision about your body". They seem to be separating these things.

Quote:“Planned Parenthood is a life saver. WOMEN NEED THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE..so sittuations this HORRIFIC dont happen. If abortion was illegal this would be happeneing much more often. SAD..so sad”

Great logic. Abortion is legal, generally. States cannot restrict any abortion in the first trimester. If this woman is arguing for legal 3rd trimester abortion, she should check up the Kermit Gosnell trial. While I am ambivalent about 1st trimester abortion, I am 100% against late term abortion.

I got the impression that she wasn't arguing for late-term abortion, but that instead she was arguing against a hypothetical scenario in which abortion were made illegal. There are plenty of political groups calling for this to happen, and I think that is who she is trying to respond to. She is attempting to use this case as substantiation for the upholding of Roe v. Wade and abortion rights in general well into the future.

Granted, abortion is legal and this murder did still happen even with the right to choose, so perhaps her argument overstates the case a bit.

Other than that, I think your critiques are on point.

Post: #3

The problem with a lot of soft ass people is they can't comprehend how someone can just kill or attack someone for no reason. Some people are just fucked in the head and can't be helped. It's like they need a loved one beat with a hammer to figure that out. They always have to make up an excuse for someone fucking up.

"He was angry at society being an outcast. He didn't mean to stab those kitties in their eyes. Why weren't his parents around to hug him and stop him?". "She was a confused 14 yr old. Where was her dad? Prison wont help her. She needs to be talked to and comforted to realize that she's loved and can drop off her kid at a child donation box in the principal's office next time this happens. I blame the schools for not having that box". "Society needs to recognize that child molesters have a piece of their brain loose. You're not helping them by letting them get raped in prison. Let's rehabilitate them and let them be around first graders when they get out so they see how beautiful kids are and wont make the same mistake. It's a mental disorder that needs to be treated, leave them alone".

Post: #4

I have started to hate ppl like these so much, so, I'm not even saddened by news like this.
Fewer idiots like these in the votebank, the better.

Post: #5

Quote:I think she is referring to the mother of the 14 year old, not the mother of the murdered child (who is the 14 year old). I don't think she's saying that the 14 year old wasnt at fault, at least not in that particular comment. She is saying that her mother wasn't at fault.

Ouch, you are right. I took that comment out of context - seriously. I think I need a break from reading feminist websites - that sort of explaining away of female actions seems so standard for feminist sites. Next time, I shouldn't write a post with a bottle of Jack in front of me. Regardless, that's on me.

And you are right about nobody explicitly defending the woman's choice. I thought they did that implicitly by attacking "abstinence-only" education, attacking pro-life advocates and bringing up beauty standards. I got the sense everybody was uncomfortable with what she did - at the very least. However, commenters came to the thread with comments explaining away what happened - she has to be mentally ill, etc. While the pro-lifers didn't help at all, I got the sense some commenters did not want to hold her liable for what she did.

I just got the sense they did not want to hold her liable for what she did. I don't think they approved, but they didn't want to condemn her for it. Some fire and brimstone rhetoric from pro-lifers does not help at all. It may just be a situation where some people are just uncomfortable with holding a woman (young teen) to an adult standard. Maybe they are uncomfortable with holding women accountable. Regardless, I think they sympathized with women too much to be able to understand what she did was wrong.

Post: #6

(05-02-2013 03:18 AM)2Wycked Wrote:  seriously. I think I need a break from reading feminist websites

Why are you reading feminist websites?
So your hatred for feminists can increase even more?

What's the point of that?

WIA

Post: #7

fucking sickening.

Post: #8

(05-02-2013 03:34 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-02-2013 03:18 AM)2Wycked Wrote:  seriously. I think I need a break from reading feminist websites

Why are you reading feminist websites?
So your hatred for feminists can increase even more?

What's the point of that?

WIA

Post: #9

(05-02-2013 03:34 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-02-2013 03:18 AM)2Wycked Wrote:  seriously. I think I need a break from reading feminist websites

Why are you reading feminist websites?
So your hatred for feminists can increase even more?

What's the point of that?

WIA

Frankly, I do it because I have always told myself I will always read counter-arguments to whatever I believe. It has helped me immensely in my career, as I am the much better arguer. Refuting feminist talking-points not only reinforces your handle on the facts, but helps you develop arguments.

However, you are right there is a psychological price. Feminism is an ideology based on anger. It shows up so often when reading their screeds - they want you to be as pissed off as they are. If you read too much of their shit, it will hurt you.

It can be tough to deal with the psychological baggage that feminism brings. You spend too much time in the feminist blogosphere, you can get infected with it - at least, their knee-jerk anger. It is tough dealing with an ideological adversary that has serious psychological issues, but once you learn to effectively handle it, you are good. I have some work to get there.