Post: #51

(08-06-2010 09:12 AM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  No, Its because hes on HGH . Look up Frank Zane, see how amazing he looks at 60 + or Serge Nubret. These guys have better body's then 20 year olds.

Systematic review: the safety and efficacy of growth hormone in the healthy elderly

CONCLUSIONS: The literature published on randomized, controlled trials evaluating GH therapy in the healthy elderly is limited but suggests that it is associated with small changes in body composition and increased rates of adverse events. On the basis of this evidence, GH cannot be recommended as an antiaging therapy.

Post: #52

But I still firmly believe money is better option.
Anyone can, with very minor effort, convert money into pussy - including very high-quality pussy, fivesomes and so on. Even if you are fat, ugly and completely anti-social.

Converting pussy to money is pretty much impossible for most of the people unless you're very lucky into hooking up and marry a rich woman (this is one-time conversion, and competition is high), or into organized crime.

Post: #53

(08-06-2010 04:09 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(08-06-2010 09:12 AM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  No, Its because hes on HGH . Look up Frank Zane, see how amazing he looks at 60 + or Serge Nubret. These guys have better body's then 20 year olds.

Systematic review: the safety and efficacy of growth hormone in the healthy elderly

CONCLUSIONS: The literature published on randomized, controlled trials evaluating GH therapy in the healthy elderly is limited but suggests that it is associated with small changes in body composition and increased rates of adverse events. On the basis of this evidence, GH cannot be recommended as an antiaging therapy.

Head over to elite fitness , and ask the 40 + year old guys on HGH , on how it affects their skin & muscle gain.

HGH + Test + primo = amazing lean muscle. Don't matter if your 20 or 60 .

Shit, heres a link talking about Stallone and HGH at 60 +

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabol...14067.html

Post: #54

(08-06-2010 10:08 PM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  Head over to elite fitness , and ask the 40 + year old guys on HGH , on how it affects their skin & muscle gain.

Testimonials have pretty much no value in medical tests. Consider the easy scenario: drug A kills 8 out of 10 people, but the rest two it turns into super young and hot. If you ask one of those who survived (you can't meet a dead one in a gym, right?), they'll tell you the drug does miracles - while the real chance for you to get the same result is only 20% (and a chance for a worse result is 80%). This is the reason why double blind studies exist, and if the study says no effects were found, I don't care what some individuals say.

Quote:Shit, heres a link talking about Stallone and HGH at 60 +
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabol...14067.html

Got it. Some unknown dude assumes (with no proof) that Stallone takes HGH. What is your point?

Think about it. There is a lot of rich people in US. I mean really rich, like Buffet. Why don't they all look like Stallone if it was as easy as taking some prescription drug, which is not that expensive at all?

Post: #55

(08-07-2010 02:39 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(08-06-2010 10:08 PM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  Head over to elite fitness , and ask the 40 + year old guys on HGH , on how it affects their skin & muscle gain.

Testimonials have pretty much no value in medical tests. Consider the easy scenario: drug A kills 8 out of 10 people, but the rest two it turns into super young and hot. If you ask one of those who survived (you can't meet a dead one in a gym, right?), they'll tell you the drug does miracles - while the real chance for you to get the same result is only 20% (and a chance for a worse result is 80%). This is the reason why double blind studies exist, and if the study says no effects were found, I don't care what some individuals say.

Quote:Shit, heres a link talking about Stallone and HGH at 60 +
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabol...14067.html

Got it. Some unknown dude assumes (with no proof) that Stallone takes HGH. What is your point?

Think about it. There is a lot of rich people in US. I mean really rich, like Buffet. Why don't they all look like Stallone if it was as easy as taking some prescription drug, which is not that expensive at all?

lulz, you serious ? Stallone got caught with HGH a couple years ago. And for you medical tests, I could show you 1000`s of bodybuilder who take HGH , who look superior to anyone in there age bracket.


And you comparing Buffet to a bodybuilder, Get the fuck out. HGH isnt a magic pill, you actually have to lift some weights .


Stallone was officially charged with illegally importing performance and image enhancing drugs in a Sydney courtroom. The 60-year-old action star was caught at Sydney Airport with several vials of a steroid known as hGH (human growth hormone) during a random baggage check. Customs officials claim they found a total of 48 vials of the steroid after they raided Stallone’s Sydney hotel room, limousine and private jet. Stallone will be required to enter a plea on April 24. If found guilty, he faces a maximum fine of $22,000 American.

Post: #56

(08-08-2010 12:42 AM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  lulz, you serious ? Stallone got caught with HGH a couple years ago. And for you medical tests, I could show you 1000`s of bodybuilder who take HGH , who look superior to anyone in there age bracket.

You still don't see it. In both cases you mentioned (Stallone and 1000 bodybuilders) it is not clear whether it was HGH which made difference in how they look for their age, or it was other factors. It also completely ignores those who were on HGH and did not get the results they wanted, or got sick and died because of that - as those people would very unlikely join elitefitness to tell their story.

This is why control group is important - because you get a group of similar people who follow the same routine. Half of them take HGH, and another half takes placebo. None of them knows who takes HGH or placebo. Then the results are compared, and if the HGH group showed results which are statistically significant, and did not have major issues, then the study would say that HGH showed the improvement and can be recommended. Unfortunately it was not the case.

Quote:And you comparing Buffet to a bodybuilder, Get the fuck out. HGH isnt a magic pill, you actually have to lift some weights .

Are you sure you're still talking about anti-aging and not building muscles? Remember, this was the original point we discussed (looking 40 while being over 60). Maybe just spending 8 hours a day in a spa under supervision of personal trainers, strictly controlling your food intake and sleep is all what really matters? Or maybe it is just genetics? I personally know quite a few 40yo which can easily pretend to be 25yo, and I'm pretty sure they do not take HGH - none of them even goes to gym.

Quote:Stallone was officially charged with illegally importing performance and image enhancing drugs in a Sydney courtroom. The 60-year-old action star was caught at Sydney Airport with several vials of a steroid known as hGH (human growth hormone) during a random baggage check.

I don't even know what to say. See, I linked a medical study which was done by Stanford University - a well-respected medical research body. The study says that "GH cannot be recommended as an antiaging therapy". You so far posted a few hearsays, some testimonials and quite irrelevant news article. Do you have any study which would show positive effect of HGH on anti-aging?

Post: #57

(08-08-2010 07:10 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(08-08-2010 12:42 AM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  lulz, you serious ? Stallone got caught with HGH a couple years ago. And for you medical tests, I could show you 1000`s of bodybuilder who take HGH , who look superior to anyone in there age bracket.

You still don't see it. In both cases you mentioned (Stallone and 1000 bodybuilders) it is not clear whether it was HGH which made difference in how they look for their age, or it was other factors. It also completely ignores those who were on HGH and did not get the results they wanted, or got sick and died because of that - as those people would very unlikely join elitefitness to tell their story.

This is why control group is important - because you get a group of similar people who follow the same routine. Half of them take HGH, and another half takes placebo. None of them knows who takes HGH or placebo. Then the results are compared, and if the HGH group showed results which are statistically significant, and did not have major issues, then the study would say that HGH showed the improvement and can be recommended. Unfortunately it was not the case.

Quote:And you comparing Buffet to a bodybuilder, Get the fuck out. HGH isnt a magic pill, you actually have to lift some weights .

Are you sure you're still talking about anti-aging and not building muscles? Remember, this was the original point we discussed (looking 40 while being over 60). Maybe just spending 8 hours a day in a spa under supervision of personal trainers, strictly controlling your food intake and sleep is all what really matters? Or maybe it is just genetics? I personally know quite a few 40yo which can easily pretend to be 25yo, and I'm pretty sure they do not take HGH - none of them even goes to gym.

Quote:Stallone was officially charged with illegally importing performance and image enhancing drugs in a Sydney courtroom. The 60-year-old action star was caught at Sydney Airport with several vials of a steroid known as hGH (human growth hormone) during a random baggage check.

I don't even know what to say. See, I linked a medical study which was done by Stanford University - a well-respected medical research body. The study says that "GH cannot be recommended as an antiaging therapy". You so far posted a few hearsays, some testimonials and quite irrelevant news article. Do you have any study which would show positive effect of HGH on anti-aging?

Im talking about looking like a Greek god at 60 years old. And HGH + test is the best thing anyone over 40 can do.


And these test are bullshit. Try 10 IUs of HG a day and say they dont see results in losing fat, gaining muscle and having healthier better skin.

Post: #58

(08-09-2010 01:07 AM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  Im talking about looking like a Greek god at 60 years old. And HGH + test is the best thing anyone over 40 can do.

So far all you offered in supporting your theory was speculation and testimonials. However the medical study done by a reputable university does not agree with this statement.

Quote:And these test are bullshit. Try 10 IUs of HG a day and say they dont see results in losing fat, gaining muscle and having healthier better skin.

Why do you think I will? And how much your opinion worth (no pun intended), are you a doctor or researcher?

Post: #59

(08-09-2010 04:41 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(08-09-2010 01:07 AM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  Im talking about looking like a Greek god at 60 years old. And HGH + test is the best thing anyone over 40 can do.

So far all you offered in supporting your theory was speculation and testimonials. However the medical study done by a reputable university does not agree with this statement.

Quote:And these test are bullshit. Try 10 IUs of HG a day and say they dont see results in losing fat, gaining muscle and having healthier better skin.

Why do you think I will? And how much your opinion worth (no pun intended), are you a doctor or researcher?

Are you serious ? That is a normal dosage for a bodybuilder to build muscle . Take 10 Ius for 4 months then cruise on 4 to 6 for another 3 - 4 months .

Sarms S 4 are research chemicals but guess what, Bodybuilders and pro athletes are abusing them , because they work . Lets seer what your studys say about them ?

Tren is made for cows, not humans but its the most advance muscle building compound ever. Lets see what the study's say about this drug ?

EQ is made for Horses but guess what we stick that in our asses too , Because it works. Lets see your studys testing on humans.



Show me a study where the test subjects are injecting huge amounts of HGH and what results they make. Because I can show 1000s of bodybuilders who do and what they look like .


Stallone was caught with 48 vials of GH , 10 Ius is the most common dosage per vial.

Thats 48 days worth for him.





^^^ it sure looks like GH is working for a man in his 60s producing barley any natural test or HG .



Let me guess , you think this guy got that way from being natural too .

Post: #60

(08-09-2010 09:49 PM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  Are you serious ? That is a normal dosage for a bodybuilder to build muscle . Take 10 Ius for 4 months then cruise on 4 to 6 for another 3 - 4 months.

We were not talking about building muscles, we were talking about looking 40 when you're over 60. See post #46 I replied to. It has nothing to do with bodybuilding, which has much more limited applicability than just looking healthy. I work out in gym three times a week, but if I looked like a guy on your bottom photo, I'd kill myself.

Quote:Show me a study where the test subjects are injecting huge amounts of HGH and what results they make.

Regarding anti-aging, the study is here - I posted a link above.

Post: #61

(08-10-2010 03:14 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(08-09-2010 09:49 PM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  Are you serious ? That is a normal dosage for a bodybuilder to build muscle . Take 10 Ius for 4 months then cruise on 4 to 6 for another 3 - 4 months.

We were not talking about building muscles, we were talking about looking 40 when you're over 60. See post #46 I replied to. It has nothing to do with bodybuilding, which has much more limited applicability than just looking healthy. I work out in gym three times a week, but if I looked like a guy on your bottom photo, I'd kill myself.

Quote:Show me a study where the test subjects are injecting huge amounts of HGH and what results they make.

Regarding anti-aging, the study is here - I posted a link above.

Hmm , for me having a body of a 20 year old and fucking like a rabbit is considered anti aging at 60 years old.




This man is in his 70's , he looks superior to most 20 year olds . You look like this in your 60's / 70's , your be fucking girls half your age.



Serge at 60 putting the average man to shame.



If these pics arn't considered anti aging then I dont know what is.

Post: #62

Chaps

One of you is saying that to look young you need to exercise and use weights, and if you want to increase the benefit of that consider drugs that boost performance once you are a bit older. I agree with this and the evidence is so overwhelming you need to get your advice out of fucking People magazine to think otherwise. This is not about "building muscle". This is about balanced exercise. As a man, a little bit of cardio before you do some wobble board core work is not going to cut it. You need to labor. Weights = labor for people who lead sedentary lifestyles.

One of you is saying that using the drugs wont work because you need to exercise with it. The drugs dont keep you young and are not anti aging. Therefore the drugs = shit. This is what we call a "retarded point of view", which is what one gets when they read People magazine too often.

Mark my words, in 20 years time, HGH therapy is going to be common practice for everyone from granny to powerlifting grandpa.

Post: #63

Not to perpetuate the extreme derailment of this thread, but what are the side effects of HGH therapy?

Do your nuts shrink?

Are you at a higher risk for cancer, testicular and otherwise?

What are the long term side effects?

What makes it different, from both a positive and negative perspective, from other steroids?

Specifically, I would be looking for anything that would indicate that its not as dangerous, as dangerous, or more dangerous for your health than other steroids.

Post: #64

(08-10-2010 09:55 PM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  Hmm , for me having a body of a 20 year old and fucking like a rabbit is considered anti aging at 60 years old.

None of the pictures you posted have a body of 20 year old.

Quote:This man is in his 70's , he looks superior to most 20 year olds.

Wow. Look on his face. Even a longtime hardcore heroine addict will not have such a face when he is 20. Look in his hair. Look in his skin. How can you even compare those? Something tells me you haven't seen a real 20 year old for quite a while, or you only compare the muscle size and completely ignore everything else

Quote:If these pics arn't considered anti aging then I dont know what is.

Do a simple test - show those pics to a few girls and ask them how old they think those guys are. If any of them tells you they look 20, I'll buy you a beer.

Post: #65

(08-11-2010 11:03 AM)Whoremonger Wrote:  One of you is saying that using the drugs wont work because you need to exercise with it. The drugs dont keep you young and are not anti aging. Therefore the drugs = shit. This is what we call a "retarded point of view", which is what one gets when they read People magazine too often.

Your interpretation of our conversation was very amusing to read. Somehow you even managed to miss the study - if you actually clicked on a link, you'd see it goes to PubMed, not People magazine - as well as the fact that we were comparing the university study with some hearsay and pictures. But you already got your opinion, so facts are irrelevant.

Post: #66

(08-11-2010 12:53 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  Not to perpetuate the extreme derailment of this thread, but what are the side effects of HGH therapy?

Unfortunately there was not a single long-term study of side effects of HGH therapy on healthy adults. The only long-term studies I am familiar with are studies which treat patients with GH deficit (like this 10-year study), and they are not applicable for those who do not have it. I also read about a study done in UK on HIV-positive patients, but it's hard to guess how relevant is it to the majority because AIDS is often accompanied by "muscle evaporating".

Mortality studies so far had mixed results. A study done on mice showed prolonged life expectancy. However with clinically ill adults high doses of growth hormone are associated with increased morbidity and mortality.

The study I posted earlier lists some side effects. However because of the group focus on anti-aging and composition (mostly older people) some of your concerns, like nuts shrinkage, were not addressed.

Post: #67

(08-11-2010 03:38 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  some of your concerns, like nuts shrinkage, were not addressed.

Thanks for addressing my questions.

Yeah, I assumed the answer to the above quoted concern would likely be sourced from what you've heard.

Post: #68

(08-11-2010 02:49 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(08-10-2010 09:55 PM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  Hmm , for me having a body of a 20 year old and fucking like a rabbit is considered anti aging at 60 years old.

None of the pictures you posted have a body of 20 year old.

Quote:This man is in his 70's , he looks superior to most 20 year olds.

Wow. Look on his face. Even a longtime hardcore heroine addict will not have such a face when he is 20. Look in his hair. Look in his skin. How can you even compare those? Something tells me you haven't seen a real 20 year old for quite a while, or you only compare the muscle size and completely ignore everything else

Quote:If these pics arn't considered anti aging then I dont know what is.

Do a simple test - show those pics to a few girls and ask them how old they think those guys are. If any of them tells you they look 20, I'll buy you a beer.

Serge has been with more woman then anyone on this pick up board . European Movie Star , one of the greatest bodybuilders ever. So what are you trying to prove by show a couple of pics to your friends ? Lets see some of your pics and compare them to serge since you seem so upset by them.

Post: #69

(08-11-2010 12:53 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  Not to perpetuate the extreme derailment of this thread, but what are the side effects of HGH therapy?

Do your nuts shrink?

Are you at a higher risk for cancer, testicular and otherwise?

What are the long term side effects?

What makes it different, from both a positive and negative perspective, from other steroids?

Specifically, I would be looking for anything that would indicate that its not as dangerous, as dangerous, or more dangerous for your health than other steroids.

Large amounts can cause increase a risk in cancer / GH gut. Go to a HRT doctor and see if you produce low amounts and they will prescribe you some.

If your in your 20's , you should already be producing 2 Iu's daily. And most people ( young bodybuilders) consider it a waste of money unless your doing Bodybuilding shows or you tested for low amounts or want to run a expensive fat loss cycle.


If you want a safe steroid cycle, look into primo and Anavar both are the safest steroids with little to no side effects . Serge and Arnold are Primo lovers. Personally I can inject 640 mg of test prop a week with no side effects , some people will get , gyno or acne , bloated from this amount . You dont how your bodys gona react till you inject yourself.

gyno, acne ,and being bloated can be controlled by taking a AI but this also takes away some muscle gains.

If your nuts shrink , you can inject HCG or HMG to bring them back

And if you want to cycle make sure you have your PCT on hand before you do your first injection . ( this brings back your natty test )

Post: #70

(08-11-2010 08:33 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  Yeah, I assumed the answer to the above quoted concern would likely be sourced from what you've heard.

Not in a study I know about. Of course there is a chance I missed a study, but I consider it very unlikely as this area is of my particular interest, and there was quite limited amount of studies (if you compare to AIDS or herpes, for example - I don't think there is a single person who read all of them as there is a lot of such studies). Also long-term effect studies are very expensive to do - just imagine how large should be the initial group so after all dropouts there would be still meaningful number of people - even one year study is considered long, and in this case it would make sense to have at least 2-5 years. Only the government could possibly afford such study, but I don't think there would be any interest as they're busy with more important stuff like HIV vaccines.

Post: #71

(08-12-2010 08:26 AM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  Serge has been with more woman then anyone on this pick up board.

I'm really impressed of your knowledge. Please enlighten us, how do you know that? Did he provide you with his fuck logbook (as well as everyone on this pick up board)? Or this is your yet another speculation?

Quote:So what are you trying to prove by show a couple of pics to your friends?

That he does not look twenty.

Quote:Lets see some of your pics and compare them to serge since you seem so upset by them.

It takes extreme efforts to get me upset by someone, especially one I've never met. You are overestimating your ability. Get real, and address real questions, like the medical study I posted. So far you only replied with pictures, which makes the impression that you really have nothing to say.

PS. I'm really impressed with the number of semi-naked male pictures you have

Post: #72

(08-13-2010 04:07 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(08-12-2010 08:26 AM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  Serge has been with more woman then anyone on this pick up board.

I'm really impressed of your knowledge. Please enlighten us, how do you know that? Did he provide you with his fuck logbook (as well as everyone on this pick up board)? Or this is your yet another speculation?

Quote:So what are you trying to prove by show a couple of pics to your friends?

That he does not look twenty.

Quote:Lets see some of your pics and compare them to serge since you seem so upset by them.

It takes extreme efforts to get me upset by someone, especially one I've never met. You are overestimating your ability. Get real, and address real questions, like the medical study I posted. So far you only replied with pictures, which makes the impression that you really have nothing to say.

PS. I'm really impressed with the number of semi-naked male pictures you have

Why so upset ? Serge has said he has been with many woman. Movie star , pro bodybuilder. Was paid to travel to world and was the focus everywhere he went. You really gonna say he hasn't ?

Also you seem really that insecure about seeing pictures of the greatest body builders of the world. Maybe if you follow there ways , you might actually see some results in the gym .

Post: #73

(08-13-2010 03:55 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(08-11-2010 08:33 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  Yeah, I assumed the answer to the above quoted concern would likely be sourced from what you've heard.

Not in a study I know about. Of course there is a chance I missed a study, but I consider it very unlikely as this area is of my particular interest, and there was quite limited amount of studies (if you compare to AIDS or herpes, for example - I don't think there is a single person who read all of them as there is a lot of such studies). Also long-term effect studies are very expensive to do - just imagine how large should be the initial group so after all dropouts there would be still meaningful number of people - even one year study is considered long, and in this case it would make sense to have at least 2-5 years. Only the government could possibly afford such study, but I don't think there would be any interest as they're busy with more important stuff like HIV vaccines.

You do realize , they prescribe HGH for HIV patients.

And they been studying steroids since the 1950's , so why the fuck wouldn't they be studying HGH .

Post: #74

HGH may be infamous for its illegal use and doping scandals with athletes, but one just cannot ignore the emerging benefits of this wonder drug. A recent study has found that it can help treat troublesome complications from the AIDS virus, but with potentially risky side effects.

HIV patients often develop fat deposits and high levels of cholesterol, triglycerides and blood sugar due to HIV drugs and faulty immune system. These put them at risk for heart problems. Low-dose injections of human growth hormone reduced fat deposits around internal abdominal organs by about 10 percent. The hormone shots lowered blood pressure and levels of blood fats called triglycerides. But they also resulted in elevated blood sugar levels. However, the only approved use of HGH is for muscle wasting in AIDS patients and conditions that impair growth.

The study results show that human growth hormone could be useful for HIV patients with abdominal fat accumulations and normal blood sugar levels, although it’s “not a panacea,” said study co-author Dr. Steven Grinspoon of Massachusetts General Hospital.

The study appears in Wednesday’s Journal of the American Medical Association and was among reports prepared for presentation Sunday at the International AIDS Conference in Mexico City.

The study involved 55 patients with the AIDS virus who also had low levels of naturally occurring human growth hormone, a condition that is relatively common among HIV patients with abnormal fat deposits. Half gave themselves daily hormone shots, the other got dummy medicine for 18 months.

In earlier research, Grinspoon and colleagues used high doses to successfully treat abnormal HIV-related fat problems but the risks including tissue swelling outweighed the benefits.

Post: #75

HGH is use for muscle wasting and impaired growth ..


Looks like your wrong again .First you said Stallone doesn't do HGH , but every one knew he was busted with large amounts. Now you say they have better things to research like HIV Vaccines. HGH is considered a miracle drug in the aids world .

Did you know Lionel Messi has to take HGH ? At the age of 11, he was diagnosed with a growth hormone deficiency.[19] Primera División club River Plate showed interest in Messi's progress, but did not have enough money to pay for treatment for his condition as it cost $900 a month.


Hmm , I wonder what he thinks of HGH . Keep on making excuses about how HGH doesn't work. Doesn't build muscle, doesn't help with skin or with fat lose .