Post: #51

(04-15-2013 10:39 AM)ManAbout Wrote:  I don't know about dementia, but many old age illnesses and problems later in life are also caused by diet.

While shaving 5 to 10 years off might seem like a reasonable trade off for muscles, who is to say it couldn't be 20 years or more? The risk of cancer and other diseases increases significantly in your 40s and beyond.

I'll tell you what, buddy.

I got labs done relatively recently.

I'll compare my labs to yours and other "meat haters."

I eat POUNDS of meat a week. Red meat, whole chickens, pork chops, pulled pork, smoked brisket, bacon, carnitas, and whatever good stuff is in the whole foods hot bar.

My labs are sterling. All my levels are in the top 10%. Low blood pressure, low lipids, low LDL, high LDL, magnificent HDL:LDL ratio, low insulin levels, low fasting blood glucose.

You come train with me, train like an animal, don't eat cupcakes or gay girl food (that often), and you can eat all of the fucking meat and eggs you want.

Post: #52

Anyone have stats on professional athletes and cancer that could be diet related?

Post: #53

(04-15-2013 04:42 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(04-15-2013 10:39 AM)ManAbout Wrote:  I don't know about dementia, but many old age illnesses and problems later in life are also caused by diet.

While shaving 5 to 10 years off might seem like a reasonable trade off for muscles, who is to say it couldn't be 20 years or more? The risk of cancer and other diseases increases significantly in your 40s and beyond.

I'll tell you what, buddy.

I got labs done relatively recently.

I'll compare my labs to yours and other "meat haters."

I eat POUNDS of meat a week. Red meat, whole chickens, pork chops, pulled pork, smoked brisket, bacon, carnitas, and whatever good stuff is in the whole foods hot bar.

My labs are sterling. All my levels are in the top 10%. Low blood pressure, low lipids, low LDL, high LDL, magnificent HDL:LDL ratio, low insulin levels, low fasting blood glucose.

You come train with me, train like an animal, don't eat cupcakes or gay girl food (that often), and you can eat all of the fucking meat and eggs you want.

Anecdotal evidence...is not exactly really convincing. You might be able to do fine on tons of meat, other people might not. And it does seem that on average eating meat does more harm than not.

Post: #54

(04-15-2013 04:30 PM)Sherman Wrote:  My arguments:

1. It's healthy

Read the book "Deep Nutrition: Why Your Genes Need Traditional Food".

http://www.amazon.com/Deep-Nutrition-You...0615228380

This book discusses findings from the new field of epigenetics to show how a traditional diet, including meat, has influenced the proper expression and functioning of our genes. In brief - we are structurally healthy today because our ancestors developed a quit advanced culinary technology( including meat) that made future generations with strong and healthy bodies. To put it another way, you don't have bad teeth, narrow jaws, deteriorating knee joints, and all of the other thousands of imperfections that make life miserable because your ancestors ate meat.

All authentic cuisines of the world include foods from the following four categories: Meat on the Bone, Organ meats, Fermented and sprouted foods, Fresh, uncooked ingredients.

2. No need to change because of pseudo science driven by political/ideological/spiritual agendas

Much of the push and advocacy of veganism/vegetarianism is coming from ideologically motivated groups who are distorting data and making things up in order to frighten people from eating meat. One common distortion of data is to cite studies showing meat harmful, but not mentioning that the "meat" used in all these studies included processed meat(like hotdogs) which contains nitrates. Nitrates are already know to be harmful to humans, so these studies tell you nothing about the health benefits of unadulterated red meat. Also, there is the book "China Study" which was in fact, not the original China study, but a highly biased interpretation. The list goes on and on. Beware of those trying to frighten you out of a healthy diet due to ulterior motives.

A good book to read on this topic is "The Vegtarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability"

http://www.amazon.com/The-Vegetarian-Myt...arian+myth

3. Veganism is dangerous

Dozens of vegan couples have been tried in courts of law and sent to prison for criminally deprieving their children of necessary nutrition.

French vegan couple whose baby died face prison
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...iency.html

http://drbenkim.com/articles-cdvegandiet.html


4. Fight vegetarian fascism - eat meat

The Dalits (untouchables) of India have suffered some of the most viscious discrimination known to man at the hands of vegetarians. The Dalits, who do the most menial dangerous labor, eat meat because they need the energy and nutrition to do all the dirty work.

Protest of Ban on Beef Festival in Campus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2xT71IpYUk

http://kafila.org/2012/05/02/resisting-c...tacharjee/

1. It's not healthy. Check out PlantPositive on YouTube.

Define authentic cuisine. As vegetarianism has been around for millenia in India, I guarantee you a portion of Indians have sustained themselves on authentic cuisine. Is it healthy? I'm not convinced it's really that great nutritionally, but then again an authentic cuisine does not imply healthy diet anyway. So this entire point about authentic cuisine is moot.

2. Pseudo-science? You quoted one book. There's tons of studies showing the harmful effects of meat, and not just the nitrates, but other compounds such as IGF-1 are inherently in meat and harmful. You can check out nutritionfacts.org to see all the crap that's in meat.

3. Honestly, all that shows is that:
- A lot of vegans/vegetarians stop eating meat for ethical reasons, without putting in the research and changes required to have a healthy vegan diet.
- Considering the child obesity rate and how no parent has been charged for fattening their kids beyond disgust only shows what society really holds valuable: showing that anything that goes against the norm should be punished.

4. So how exactly does us eating meat in the West help Dalits in India?

Post: #55

Quote:So What Is The Best Argument For Eating Meat?

Seems to work pretty well for this guy.

Sure he doesn't have the "Arnie Look", but he is pretty agile and quick.

And sure he is not that "tall", but I am sure he gets girls.

Right?

Post: #56

India is an entire country of vegetarians. How's that working out of them.

Is this vegetarian thread a clever Indian Race Troll angle?

Those meat studies are bogus, by the way.

They look at people like my dad. He'll have a cheese burger on top of those buns that come 8 to a pack and are made with artificial, bleached flower. He'll have some Ruffles potato chips and some cake for dessert.

Then the geeks blame the meat.

I just had 12 ounces of pork chops with a huge kale, quinoa, and blueberry salad.

Feeling great.

Post: #57

Here is just one article from the Mayo clinic casting doubt on the idea that red meat increases heart disease.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/red-meat/MY01329

The bottom line is that the research is not conclusive by a long shot. The studies use adulterated red meat, with substances such as nitrates and hormones added. There is no "ton of evidence" against red meat. Also, meat has high quality protein, and studies show that there is a difference in level of protein quality. Don't eat meat at your own risk. People are probably better off finding ways to reduce salt in their diets, as the standard America contains two or three times the recommended minimum level.

One danger of interpreting these studies is the tunnel vision of trying to apply the analytical model to a living organism. The body is a living organism requiring a balance of thousands of processes. Excluding a nutrient because of a study is fool hardy. As an example - a nutritionist will advocate that people spend more time in the sun to generate Vitamin D whereas a skin doctor advocates staying out of the sun to avoid skin cancer. Each doctor is narrowly focused on one part of the organism and can't see the big picture. In contrast, the cultures of the world have created great culinary traditions that should be respected. They should really be viewed as advanced technology in their sophistication. They have found the foods that make us healthy and have strengthened the bodies of future generations. The cooks see the big picture whereas the researchers are narrowly focused on one part not seeing the effects on the other part. France, the symbol of culinary perfection, has relatively low coronary heart disease and one of the highest longevity rates in the world.

Post: #58

(04-15-2013 10:39 AM)ManAbout Wrote:  While shaving 5 to 10 years off might seem like a reasonable trade off for muscles, who is to say it couldn't be 20 years or more?

One runner in the Boston Marathon was a 78 year-old!!

Post: #59

(04-16-2013 11:41 AM)JayMillz Wrote:  

(04-15-2013 10:39 AM)ManAbout Wrote:  While shaving 5 to 10 years off might seem like a reasonable trade off for muscles, who is to say it couldn't be 20 years or more?

One runner in the Boston Marathon was a 78 year-old!!

Warren Buffet is 82 and eats steak, and ice cream sundaes.

If you wanna be a vegetarian, good for you.

But you're not going to scare anyone else into doing that nonsense.

Post: #60

(04-16-2013 12:18 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Warren Buffet is 82 and eats steak, and ice cream sundaes.

If you wanna be a vegetarian, good for you.

But you're not going to scare anyone else into doing that nonsense.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/16...87940.html

The Associated Press 09/15/12

Warren Buffett says he's done with radiation treatments for cancer, and the Oracle of Omaha seems eager to move on.

The billionaire investor and chairman and CEO of investment firm Berkshire Hathaway Inc. broke the news Friday while speaking to a group of executives from newspapers he owns. "It's a great day for me. Today I had my 44th and last day of radiation," he said, according to the Berkshire-owned Omaha World-Herald.

Post: #61

(04-16-2013 12:18 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(04-16-2013 11:41 AM)JayMillz Wrote:  

(04-15-2013 10:39 AM)ManAbout Wrote:  While shaving 5 to 10 years off might seem like a reasonable trade off for muscles, who is to say it couldn't be 20 years or more?

One runner in the Boston Marathon was a 78 year-old!!

Warren Buffet is 82 and eats steak, and ice cream sundaes.

If you wanna be a vegetarian, good for you.

But you're not going to scare anyone else into doing that nonsense.

This Chinese dude lived to 268 years eating herbs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Ching-Yuen

Post: #62

(04-14-2013 05:50 AM)JayMillz Wrote:  ...

I don't like chimpanzees. They're some evil bastards!

You will definitely not like baboons then. The more domesticated ones, like in very high traffic nature reserves will steal your shit and wreck the inside of your car if you turn your back for a second.

In more wild areas they can be worse. Heard from a friend who was hiking in a ravine. Baboon troop didn't like them being there. Mother F****s started chucking rocks at them from the higher elevations.

You don't feel so bad when learning that they are a favourite meal of leopards.

Post: #63

(04-16-2013 12:32 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  

(04-16-2013 12:18 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Warren Buffet is 82 and eats steak, and ice cream sundaes.

If you wanna be a vegetarian, good for you.

But you're not going to scare anyone else into doing that nonsense.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/16...87940.html

The Associated Press 09/15/12

Warren Buffett says he's done with radiation treatments for cancer, and the Oracle of Omaha seems eager to move on.

The billionaire investor and chairman and CEO of investment firm Berkshire Hathaway Inc. broke the news Friday while speaking to a group of executives from newspapers he owns. "It's a great day for me. Today I had my 44th and last day of radiation," he said, according to the Berkshire-owned Omaha World-Herald.

"Afterward he flew women from around the world to help his celebrate. They took his private jet.

"Since he ate meat his whole life, he had manly aggression and drive and could afford such luxuries, doctors said.

"Meanwhile, JayMillz and other vegetarians were caught in a dispute over a $40 bar tab. One guy lost his wallet, another guy stepped out what seemed like an hour ago to "feed the parking meter," and the other vegetarian didn't have $40 in his debit card.

"The bar owner told onlookers, 'I kept telling those young men to start eating meat. Puts hair on the chest. Instead they talk about Tai-Bo and never have any money!'

Post: #64

(04-16-2013 02:21 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  "Meanwhile, JayMillz and other vegetarians

LOL, I actually eat meat or fish 4 or 5 times a week, but I also juice a lot of vegetables and eat a lot of salads.

Post: #65

(04-16-2013 02:27 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  I actually eat meat or fish 4 or 5 times a week, but I also juice a lot of vegetables and eat a lot of salads.

I love that fucking diet plan!!!

I just need to stay away from the fucking cookies!

Post: #66

Post: #67

I respect anyone who is a vegan for religious and cultural traditional regions.

I laugh derisively at any vegan that tries to tell me it's the optimal healthy diet for all humans.

Here's the deal - many vegans convert after eating meat along with all sorts of junk food for years, they become fat and sick. They go vegan, and in addition to avoiding meat and animal products, they're also avoiding most processed foods made with crap vegetable oils and refined flours. They lose weight and feel fantastic for a while.

This makes them believe they've discovered the perfect diet.

What they don't realize, is that when you go vegan from a former Standard American Diet, you essentially go into caloric deficit and your body begins to burn off your stored fat. For a short period, you become a fat burning machine...and you feel fantastic.

But eventually you hit a point where all your accessible fat is burned off.

If you stick with strict veganism, you will start to also burn off your muscle tissue and develop nutritional deficiencies in all the nutrients you can only get from animal based fat and protein. You will no longer feel as good as you did when you first went vegan...but because you get invested in that initial euphoria of burning off all that stored fat, thinking you've found dietary perfection, you stick with veganism, and get even more strict, trying to recapture that initial feeling.

Off the top of my head, the following are vitamins and nutrients that are either only found in animal foods or are far more bio-available in meat and fat than comparable plant sources:

Vitamin B12
Choline
Lutein
Conjugated Linoleic Acid
Stearic Acid
Omega 3 fatty acids - DHA & EPA
Iron
Vitamins K-2, D-3 & A
Methionine, Gelatin & Collagen (best obtained from bone broths)
Glucosamine & Condroitin (best obtained from boiled crustacean shells, i.e. seafood soup stock)

Also, while CAFO Feedlot meat and fat is far inferior to the wild, free range, natural animal foods, they still supply many of these vitamins and nutrients listed above, just in much smaller amounts...but that's still better than not getting any of those essential nutrients at all, as it happens with long term, strict vegans.

I've never seen a true, long term vegans (10+ years) that looked healthy. "Vegetarians" will often claim the mantle of superior dietary morality and look the perfect picture of health....but probe further, and you'll find they eat dairy, butter, or fish, or eggs (lacto-ovo vegetarians or pescatarians). i.e. they don't eat junk food, they don't "eat meat," but they still get plenty of all those essential nutrients from the dairy, eggs and/or fish, as well as plenty of vegetables and fruits.

But long term vegans?

Most look like emaciated concentration camp survivors, or saggy weaklings.

Post: #68

(04-14-2013 04:25 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  I'd rather go through my 30s and 40s jacked than live an extra 5-10 years.

These folks are in their 70s.

Post: #69

(05-22-2013 10:31 AM)JayMillz Wrote:  

(04-14-2013 04:25 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  I'd rather go through my 30s and 40s jacked than live an extra 5-10 years.

These folks are in their 70s.

Blacks really can age well. I've never seen a older white (without botox) that looked even 20 years younger. Once you hit 70, the wrinkles are too pronounced.

Post: #70

http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/b...ther-dies/

Baby Breastfed By Vegan Mother Dies

by Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist on March 30, 2011

An 11 month old baby exclusively breastfed by a vegan mother has died and the parents are charged with neglect after an autopsy indicated the baby suffered from deficiencies in vitamin B12 and Vitamin A – both known to be critical to a child’s development.

Vegans have long been advised to take B12 supplements as long term veganism runs the huge risk of serious B12 deficiency as well as other nutrients only found in animal foods such as true Vitamin A. Beta carotene is not true vitamin A nor does it easily convert to adequate amounts of Vitamin A in the body.

While I’m not sure I favor charging the parents in this tragedy as it smacks of Big Brother far too much for my comfort level, it does communicate a clear message to other vegans: abstinence from all animal foods is a danger to one’s health and most particularly, your baby!

It also sends a clear message that what a breastfeeding Mother eats definitely DOES affect the quality of her breastmilk. Many breastfeeding advocates insist that breastmilk will include all a baby needs despite what the Mother eats, but clearly this is not the case.

Traditional cultures took great care to ensure that pregnant and breastfeeding mothers consumed ample amounts of animal foods rich in vitamins A, D, E, K and of course B12. These foods included grassfed butter, pastured eggs, liver, seafood, and fish eggs. Notice that none – NOT ONE of these traditionally sacred foods is plant based!

If you are pregnant and breastfeeding and would like to learn what foods will maximally support the health of your baby while nursing, please check this link for the complete listing of traditionally sacred foods for optimal fetal and baby development. These foods will also ensure the preservation of your own health during pregnancy and lactation which can easily deplete a Mother’s nutritional stores leaving her vulnerable to exhaustion.

*Update: The vegan parents whose baby died as described in this article were convicted by a French court to 5 years in prison due to the imbalanced vegan diet the mother ate which led to nutrient poor breastmilk and a failure to thrive child who eventually fell ill from severe nutrient deficiency and died without the parents ever seeking proper medical attention.

For more information on how a vegan diet devastates the health of children, read about how a 12 year old vegan was diagnosed with the degenerating bones of an 80 year old. Dr. Faisal Ahmed MD, a pediatrician treating the child, said that the dangers of forcing children to follow a strict vegan diet need to be publicized.

Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist, author of Get Your Fats Straight

Post: #71

(05-22-2013 03:01 PM)Wreckingball Wrote:  http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/b...ther-dies/

Baby Breastfed By Vegan Mother Dies

by Sarah, The Healthy Home Economist on March 30, 2011

Tragic story

Post: #72

Processed meats seem to be...... no bueno
http://institutefornaturalhealing.com/20...nsumption/

UPDATED – 5/22/2013 – The World Cancer Research Fund (WCRF) has completed a detailed review of more than 7,000 clinical studies covering links between diet and cancer.1 Bottom line: Processed meats are too dangerous for human consumption. Consumers should stop buying and eating all processed meat products for the rest of their lives.

Processed meats include bacon, sausage, hot dogs, sandwich meat, packaged ham, pepperoni, salami and virtually all red meat used in frozen prepared meals. They are usually manufactured with a carcinogenic ingredient known as sodium nitrite.2 This is used as a color fixer by meat companies to turn packaged meats a bright red color so they look fresh. Unfortunately, sodium nitrite also results in the formation of cancer-causing nitrosamines in the human body. And this leads to a sharp increase in cancer risk for those who eat them.

Post: #73

(04-15-2013 10:42 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  India is an entire country of vegetarians. How's that working out of them.

Mongols were partly able to conquer many predominately vegetarian cultures b/c they consumed tons of meat and milk, allowing them to become larger/stronger and recover faster, giving them a nice advantage in combat.

Post: #74

The World Cancer Research Fund (WCRF) has completed a detailed review of more than 7,000 clinical studies covering links between diet and cancer.1 Bottom line: Processed meats are too dangerous for human consumption. Consumers should stop buying and eating all processed meat products for the rest of their lives.

Meh.

Dig into the research like I have and this is what you really find: the studies are always and I mean ALWAYS epidemiological... and the data is gathered from Food Questionnaire surveys.

It has questions like this:

How many times in the past year did you eat any processed meat products?

a) Once a week
b) Once a month
c) 5-6 times a week
d) Every single day
e) Never

They take these bullshit surveys (can you remember how many times you ate processed meat in the past year?), than they look at the person's medical end and then proclaim it was the processed meat as the culprit.

Correlation does not equal causation.

What this kind of study DOES tell us, is this: we've been inundated with "processed meat is bad for you" propaganda for the past 20+ years.

The kind of person that eats processed meat on a daily basis, is also the kind of person that is not health conscious at all, eats all kinds of fast food, junk food and desserts, and probably doesn't exercise much either, and also likely to have a few substance abuse problems as well. i.e. The health oblivious and apathetic types of people.

On the other hand, the kind of person that would say "never eats processed meat" is the exact opposite type of person. One who watches everything they eat, exercises regularly, etc.

In either case, without specific scientific proof gathered from double-blind studies, there is NO STUDIES THAT CONCLUSIVELY PROVE processed meats cause any kind of health problems. I.e., there is no study in existence in which subjects were fed processed meats and observed carefully and monitored to prove anything.

Finally...

...if you do a track down of the sponsors of this sort of research, and who donates funds to organizations like the WCRF, you'll find out the biggest ones are the giant agricultural corporations who WANT people to walk into a grocery store and get fooled by all the health claims of their processed food products.

Phrases put on processed food packaging like "Fat Free," "low-fat" "lite" "animal product free" "vegetarian" "cholesterol free" etc. This way, they can sell you their grains, vegetable and seed oil laden, corn syrup sweetened crap while fooling you into thinking you're eating healthy! Afterall, you're not eating red meat, or processed meat, or saturated fat!

Don't be that sucker.

Oh, and here's one of the worst ones I see all the time in grocery stores:

"Eggs from Chickens exclusively raised on Vegetarian Feed"

That's funny. Anyone who raises chickens at home surely knows that chickens are OMNIVORES, and that they eat grass, bugs, and even small rodents and small birds if they can catch 'em. Oh, and they also sun bathe as well.

But you see, the kind of lies and deceptions the agricultural corporations use to make you buy nutritionally inferior food and think it's actually healthier? lol

Your typical eggs from the big brands like Lucerne, Meadow Gold, etc., come from Factory farmed chickens kept in battery cages with their beaks seared off, raised exclusively on soy-based feed. They never leave the cages, they never breathe fresh air, they never see the sunlight, and they ONLY eat the soy-based "egg producer" feed. Oh, it's vegetarian alright.

In short, there are large, multinational corporations (Like Monsanto, Cargill et al) that generate billions of dollars of profits farming and selling all their grain based feed products to processed food manufacturers.

They want you and I to be so brainwashed and afraid of red meat, saturated fat, dairy, and yes, processed meat, so that we are more likely to buy and consume their products...afterall, they're 'vegetarian' and 'fat free' and 'low in cholesterol!'

Oh, and one last thing.

Sodium Nitrates and Nitrites are another big misdirection. You have more nitrates found in vegetables like celery, beets and other plant foods, than in even your most preserved meats like bacon and ham.

That's what makes them such potent vasodilators...all the nitrates.

Nitrates are GOOD FOR YOU.

Post: #75

TL;DR -

I eat bacon. Nearly every day.

I also work out regularly, and eat all sorts of fruits and vegetables. I also juice (thanks FitJuice!) almost daily as well. I also eat eggs, cheese and other "fatty" foods.

I 'aint worried about getting no cancer from my bacon consumption.