Post: #1

Say you're out on a first date at a bar with a girl (because Roosh said no coffee dates). Typically you'll find that you have a choice to sit:

a. At the bar
b. Across from her at a table of two (preferably a small table)
c. Next to her at a table or booth.
d. Wasted, on the pot, with your pants down as she licks your b...never mind.

Opinions/stories/rants are welcome. I understand I might have to try out a few different things to find what works best for me.

I just wanted to take a minute and thank everyone of you for all the good advice so far. I've learnt a lot here.

Post: #2

Imo, on the first date it doesn't matter.

If you don't know her at all, sitting directly next to her at a table might be a little pretentious, just because she likely wants to get comfortable with you first. But then again, depends on her and it depends on you. If you know her a little, then sitting next to her can be good. Sometimes, women even expect it.

The bar is good because of the side-to-side kino you can work.. But then your not looking at each other as much...its not as intimate...

A good middle ground is sitting perpendicular to her, if the table allows it. I often do this...

Post: #3

Hey Stein,

I always try to sit at bars wherever I go, no matter what girl I'm with. I always eat at them at restaurants. You get the recognition factor from the bartender every time you go back, you don't have to wait for tables, and best of all you get your drinks quicker.

If you have to sit at a table at a restaurant, and it so happens to have some type of scenic view, make sure the girl is positioned to see it the best. Be careful with sunset spots though, your girl could be sitting there staring into the sun and get a headache, which will make her not want to have sex with you.

Here's the thing though:

This "where do I sit" thought process might over complicate things. The girl is gonna pick up on your over-thinking and maybe take it as weakness.

Remember, as much as you're there to swoop this girl, you're also there to enjoy a meal.

Keep it simple.

Aloha!

Post: #4

its personal matter of style, and the kinda place you are at. Actually scratch that. I tend to be whatever seat is closer. Its not a huge thing at all. Really, you shouldnt be that conscious of yourself that you worry about where you sit. Just do what is natural to do for you. Make your own style. Girls pick up on hesitation and doubt like a doberman picks up a scent. Dont worry about it at all man. Sometimes i even leave an empty seat at the bar between us and talk over it. Its just what fits the moment.

Dont psycoanalyize every single aspect of the game. You will be worse off for it. Trust me, ive been there, done that, and it just leads to a frustrating night, and if you get rejected you will spend hours chewing over every possible flaw and feel like crap.

Post: #5

I usually sit next to my girl regardless of where we eat, but I've never thought about eating at the bar. I like your style Kona.

Post: #6

It can all work, but in order of preference...

1. Perpendicular at a small table (or similarly seated at a round table)
2. At the bar
3. Across from her at a small table

Across from her has the worst opportunities to ramp up kino, but some still can be done, like grabbing her wrists or hands, etc, so it's not a total loss, especially if it's a small table in a bar...

Post: #7

I think the more important question here is....

Do you know how to use "eye contact" to increase attraction? or does "eye contact" make you uncomfortable?

Don't stare at her, and make her the center of attention. Don't look at her "too serious". Keep your eye contact playful and flirty. Be distracted by other things around the room. Don't ever look down in a submissive way. Don't move your eyes around in a quick, unsure, weird way. Be aware of how much eye contact she is giving you. Once you get comfortable with all of this. It doesn't matter where you sit.

Your eyes say alot about you. This is a big part of "Body Language".

Post: #8

(06-09-2010 05:33 AM)Kona Wrote:  Hey Stein,

I always try to sit at bars wherever I go, no matter what girl I'm with. I always eat at them at restaurants. You get the recognition factor from the bartender every time you go back, you don't have to wait for tables, and best of all you get your drinks quicker.

If you have to sit at a table at a restaurant, and it so happens to have some type of scenic view, make sure the girl is positioned to see it the best. Be careful with sunset spots though, your girl could be sitting there staring into the sun and get a headache, which will make her not want to have sex with you.

Here's the thing though:

This "where do I sit" thought process might over complicate things. The girl is gonna pick up on your over-thinking and maybe take it as weakness.

Remember, as much as you're there to swoop this girl, you're also there to enjoy a meal.

Keep it simple.

Aloha!

Straight out of The G Manifesto Playbook.

I was going to say the exact same thing.

This: "You get the recognition factor from the bartender every time you go back, you don't have to wait for tables, and best of all you get your drinks quicker." Is right on target.

Post: #9

Giovonny, Kona - You've reminded me that it's not 'what' you do, it's 'how' you carry yourself and how you frame the interaction. Very intuitive and very accurate. I'm going to focus on having a good time, and being more playful. And that bit about sharpening my eye-contact game is so money, I can't wait to try it.

Willy, G, feo and Alpha - thanks for all the tactical input. Time to return and experiment.

Post: #10

(06-09-2010 03:48 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(06-09-2010 05:33 AM)Kona Wrote:  Hey Stein,

I always try to sit at bars wherever I go, no matter what girl I'm with. I always eat at them at restaurants. You get the recognition factor from the bartender every time you go back, you don't have to wait for tables, and best of all you get your drinks quicker.

If you have to sit at a table at a restaurant, and it so happens to have some type of scenic view, make sure the girl is positioned to see it the best. Be careful with sunset spots though, your girl could be sitting there staring into the sun and get a headache, which will make her not want to have sex with you.

Here's the thing though:

This "where do I sit" thought process might over complicate things. The girl is gonna pick up on your over-thinking and maybe take it as weakness.

Remember, as much as you're there to swoop this girl, you're also there to enjoy a meal.

Keep it simple.

Aloha!

Straight out of The G Manifesto Playbook.

I was going to say the exact same thing.

This: "You get the recognition factor from the bartender every time you go back, you don't have to wait for tables, and best of all you get your drinks quicker." Is right on target.

Alot of Game stuff is rooted in the "The G Manifesto Playbook". It all goes back to the "PUA's vs G's" debate.
PUA's are really just copying the tendencies and body language of "Naturals". I think I even heard Mystery admit that. What Kona did is something that gentlemen have been doing for years. Taking a girl to a bar where the bartender is your friend and you guys sit at the bar. It just makes so much sense. There is something sexy and powerful about it. You get status points, style points, bad boy points, and social circle points. And this`happens OVER DRINKS. See why its a great move. I think Kona just does stuff like this naturally. And Of course The G Manifesto has always preached "Locking Down" multiple spots. Even mentioning the value of being a good tipper etc. To me this seems more natural then the way Mystery and those guys talk about "social proof" etc. Instead of trying to fool people into thinking you are an Alpha, better to actaully be an Alpha. I do think its possible with a few years of hard work. You might not be a real Alpha but you will be more of one then 90% of the other men out there, and that alone will get you plenty of ass. I do respect real PUA's because they have a strong understanding of how womens minds and bodies work, at least in terms of dating/mating.

Post: #11

(06-09-2010 09:21 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(06-09-2010 03:48 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(06-09-2010 05:33 AM)Kona Wrote:  Hey Stein,

I always try to sit at bars wherever I go, no matter what girl I'm with. I always eat at them at restaurants. You get the recognition factor from the bartender every time you go back, you don't have to wait for tables, and best of all you get your drinks quicker.

If you have to sit at a table at a restaurant, and it so happens to have some type of scenic view, make sure the girl is positioned to see it the best. Be careful with sunset spots though, your girl could be sitting there staring into the sun and get a headache, which will make her not want to have sex with you.

Here's the thing though:

This "where do I sit" thought process might over complicate things. The girl is gonna pick up on your over-thinking and maybe take it as weakness.

Remember, as much as you're there to swoop this girl, you're also there to enjoy a meal.

Keep it simple.

Aloha!

Straight out of The G Manifesto Playbook.

I was going to say the exact same thing.

This: "You get the recognition factor from the bartender every time you go back, you don't have to wait for tables, and best of all you get your drinks quicker." Is right on target.

Alot of Game stuff is rooted in the "The G Manifesto Playbook". It all goes back to the "PUA's vs G's" debate.
PUA's are really just copying the tendencies and body language of "Naturals". I think I even heard Mystery admit that. What Kona did is something that gentlemen have been doing for years. Taking a girl to a bar where the bartender is your friend and you guys sit at the bar. It just makes so much sense. There is something sexy and powerful about it. You get status points, style points, bad boy points, and social circle points. And this`happens OVER DRINKS. See why its a great move. I think Kona just does stuff like this naturally. And Of course The G Manifesto has always preached "Locking Down" multiple spots. Even mentioning the value of being a good tipper etc. To me this seems more natural then the way Mystery and those guys talk about "social proof" etc. Instead of trying to fool people into thinking you are an Alpha, better to actaully be an Alpha. I do think its possible with a few years of hard work. You might not be a real Alpha but you will be more of one then 90% of the other men out there, and that alone will get you plenty of ass. I do respect real PUA's because they have a strong understanding of how womens minds and bodies work, at least in terms of dating/mating.

There seems to be a debate whether or not a man, can "become alpha", versus the argument made by some that you are a "natural alpha" or you're not. It seems that you feel that a guy can go from being a beta to alpha through "a years of hard work," what I wonder is what that entails, (doing a shit ton of approaches, not giving a fuck, inner game, never showing weakness to women, etc.)?

Post: #12

(06-09-2010 11:45 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  There seems to be a debate whether or not a man, can "become alpha", versus the argument made by some that you are a "natural alpha" or you're not. It seems that you feel that a guy can go from being a beta to alpha through "a years of hard work," what I wonder is what that entails, (doing a shit ton of approaches, not giving a fuck, inner game, never showing weakness to women, etc.)?

In short, learning not to care.

Including not giving a second thought to where you sit, unless by request.

Alphas don't care about what she thinks, they just do what they feel, and without hesitation.

Post: #13

I do think its possible to become an "Alpha".

First of all, there is probably no such thing as a real "Alpha" (in humans). Monkeys have Alphas i guess but its just the biggest, strongest, toughest monkey. For humans that doesn't really work. I have met some huge bodybuilder guys who were not very good with women. Its not enough to be big and strong. You also have to be comfortable in your own skin and have good social skills. On the other hand, I know some 5'10 170 pound dudes who would probably be considered "Alphas". Its just a stupid word we use to describe guys who seem strong and effective with girls.

How do you become an "Alpha"? Well, the best way is to grow up around older "Alphas". If you were not that lucky, then you should start studying "Alphas". I think most men have it in them to become Alpha but they hold themselves back because of fear and not being honest with themselves. You have to face all your fears head on and defeat them. Clean out all the "skeletons in your closet". This is your "inner game". Once you are comfortable in your own skin, you can start building social and conversational skills. Thats the beginning.

I think the single best thing you can do to become "Alpha" is to FIGHT. Find a local boxing or mma gym and get in the ring. It will be hard at first, but if you get in the ring and fight for your life, you are on your way to Alpha. Its just like the monkeys, if you want the girls and the power, you gotta prove that you are a dominant male. How do you become a dominant male? Practice your fighting skills. After about a year or 2, you will know that you can physically handle 90% of the other men out there. Combine that with at least 3 or 4 approaches a day. You will be an "Alpha" in less then 2 years.

Thats how I would do it.

Post: #14

If you have to start at a bar - simple. Get a booth, sit across her, build rapport, go to the washroom, and then just come back and sit next to her.

I always go for booths, always easy to start getting to 1st/2nd/3rd base.

No need to overthink at all

Post: #15

I like to touch, so I sit next to unless its like a nice formal dinner... my friend was running a speed dating even and asked me to come because she didnt have enough guys.... I made every girl sit next to me (guys were on benches and girls sat in chairs across), some fought it but I won every time. 17 out of 18 girls said yes(thats just cuz ima pimp, even if average looking) the one that didnt was the bull dyke man hater type, not sure why she was there. Anyway its like Hydro says, I wanted them to sit next to me, so I told them to, and I didnt take no for an answer.

You wanna know what else? I was in Latvia, Bs'ing with this chick, she goes and sits down, I tell her to scoot over, she says no and pats the seat next to her, there was about a foot between her and the armrest so I fucking sat on her left leg with my other cheek in the open space, my buddy watching was laughing his ass off. She damn well scooted over then after a startled WTF just happened second she was laughing too, ya know what.... I dominated her from that point, no more tests nada. Do what you want.(within reason of course)

Post: #16

Giovanny,

"Instead of trying to fool people into thinking you are an Alpha, better to actaully be an Alpha."

Yeah, this has always been my approach.

Post: #17

(06-09-2010 11:45 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

(06-09-2010 09:21 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(06-09-2010 03:48 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(06-09-2010 05:33 AM)Kona Wrote:  Hey Stein,

I always try to sit at bars wherever I go, no matter what girl I'm with. I always eat at them at restaurants. You get the recognition factor from the bartender every time you go back, you don't have to wait for tables, and best of all you get your drinks quicker.

If you have to sit at a table at a restaurant, and it so happens to have some type of scenic view, make sure the girl is positioned to see it the best. Be careful with sunset spots though, your girl could be sitting there staring into the sun and get a headache, which will make her not want to have sex with you.

Here's the thing though:

This "where do I sit" thought process might over complicate things. The girl is gonna pick up on your over-thinking and maybe take it as weakness.

Remember, as much as you're there to swoop this girl, you're also there to enjoy a meal.

Keep it simple.

Aloha!

Straight out of The G Manifesto Playbook.

I was going to say the exact same thing.

This: "You get the recognition factor from the bartender every time you go back, you don't have to wait for tables, and best of all you get your drinks quicker." Is right on target.

Alot of Game stuff is rooted in the "The G Manifesto Playbook". It all goes back to the "PUA's vs G's" debate.
PUA's are really just copying the tendencies and body language of "Naturals". I think I even heard Mystery admit that. What Kona did is something that gentlemen have been doing for years. Taking a girl to a bar where the bartender is your friend and you guys sit at the bar. It just makes so much sense. There is something sexy and powerful about it. You get status points, style points, bad boy points, and social circle points. And this`happens OVER DRINKS. See why its a great move. I think Kona just does stuff like this naturally. And Of course The G Manifesto has always preached "Locking Down" multiple spots. Even mentioning the value of being a good tipper etc. To me this seems more natural then the way Mystery and those guys talk about "social proof" etc. Instead of trying to fool people into thinking you are an Alpha, better to actaully be an Alpha. I do think its possible with a few years of hard work. You might not be a real Alpha but you will be more of one then 90% of the other men out there, and that alone will get you plenty of ass. I do respect real PUA's because they have a strong understanding of how womens minds and bodies work, at least in terms of dating/mating.

There seems to be a debate whether or not a man, can "become alpha", versus the argument made by some that you are a "natural alpha" or you're not. It seems that you feel that a guy can go from being a beta to alpha through "a years of hard work," what I wonder is what that entails, (doing a shit ton of approaches, not giving a fuck, inner game, never showing weakness to women, etc.)?

There is no doubt that you can learn to become an alpha, but it is not easy.

Personally I have seen several old friends transform, and I like to think that I have done it myself (though I have always been kind of an ignorant dick).

Like somebody else mentioned, it is about pushing yourself to the edge.

In reality, who's alpha, who's not, is about self confidence and having a strong sense of reality.

If you don't have it, you will need reference experiences that allow you to become confident and congruent with your new self image.

Travelling on your own in a third world country, approaching and banging tons of girls will speed up the process incredibly.

You can notice the difference by paying close attention to yourself: what surroundings are you comfortable in, and in which are you not?

Being alpha is basically about being comfortable all the time.

Post: #18

"The G Manifesto has always preached "Locking Down" multiple spots."

"In reality, who's alpha, who's not, is about self confidence and having a strong sense of reality. "

"Traveling on your own in a third world country, approaching and banging tons of girls will speed up the process incredibly. "

The one thing I would add is hang out with other Alphas and compete with them.

I have always ran with real competitive crews. The dissing and bragging with 100X what I have seen other crews do. Sometimes it was downright brutal if you were slipping.

Giovanny said "The G Manifesto has always preached "Locking Down" multiple spots." and it reminded me of when I would roll with my friends and we would always brag in a joking manner of who had the spots more "On Lock". Like who got better treatment at clubs and restaurants etc (and when we went, who would step up and make it happen). Who would swoop flyer girls, who was more fly at the track or Las Vegas, or who was caking up heavier.

That type of comp really rachets up your G'ness.

Post: #19

(06-10-2010 03:20 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I think the single best thing you can do to become "Alpha" is to FIGHT. Find a local boxing or mma gym and get in the ring. It will be hard at first, but if you get in the ring and fight for your life, you are on your way to Alpha. Its just like the monkeys, if you want the girls and the power, you gotta prove that you are a dominant male. How do you become a dominant male? Practice your fighting skills. After about a year or 2, you will know that you can physically handle 90% of the other men out there. Combine that with at least 3 or 4 approaches a day. You will be an "Alpha" in less then 2 years.

I have to agree with this.

Although it is possible to be a natural alpha without fighting, if your not a natural, then fighting is probably the surest route to being a top-dog alpha. But yeah, you got to put in a lot of time and training. And get a lot of experience either in the ring or on the mat.

In terms of directly teaching you to be alpha, wrestling and fighting will give you a lot of self confidence, and dissipate a lot of fear, around other alphas anyway...

Also, lets put it this way: no matter how much you try to act like an alpha, a guy who is a fighter or wrestler is going to out-alpha you every single time. Just because he is never-ever going to be scared or intimidated by you, but unless you aren't very smart, you will be scared of him if he chooses to flex his skills a bit.

Of course you can play the cool 'who cares' vibe around them, especially if they are social retards that like to start fights, but a 'cool' fighter or wrestler will always out-alpha most other men if push comes to shove. Wrestling and boxing tends to cool guys out a bit, not all, but most... and so its rare to get a total dickhead wrestler or fighter... So you get a 'cool' guy who can usually also kick some ass, and doesn't have much fear of other alphas...thats alpha...

Post: #20

I don't know if I agree man. I have a buddy who fights MMA. This guy is on top of his technique, you put him in the ring with anyone and he will own. But as soon as he is out of the gym, ie: everywhere else in the world, he becomes average insecure stuttering non-alpha. When he does land a girl it's because she specifically look for that type of guy. I guess if you find a way to transfer that comfort of being in your element to everyday life it would work, but that's what it takes to land any type of girl regardless.

Post: #21

thats rare IMO feo, guys run a circle often, they are little insecure boys, start to learn to fight, want to show off get in fights etc.... then they actually get good. The most dangerous people I dont know in my life are the calmest people I know. I am talking from MMA guys to mr "i dont exist and get air dropped into fucked up countries to handle shit". The best is a delta force friend of mine, he is fucking nuts, he would grab dumbells, put on a ruck sack and go run 2 miles in the middle of a blizzard in shorts and a t-shirt for some exercise before lunch. Yet, calm with an awesome sense of humor. People like that have a natural alpha state to them. Like Hydro said, you cant out alpha shit like that.

Competence breeds confidence. Thats why I dont believe in the theory of THE alpha male, I believe in dominant males, especially after working with TONS of dominant guys, there isnt always ONE alpha, there are quite a few. Many of my friends are sooooo "alpha" that they come across like assholes, but they arent really, they are just used to living in their own reality.

Post: #22

"Also, lets put it this way: no matter how much you try to act like an alpha, a guy who is a fighter or wrestler is going to out-alpha you every single time."

I am a huge advocate of martial arts and I have been boxing since I was a young cub. There are still many ways to out-alpha a good fighter.

Some examples?

Mastery of your domain, money, humor, good looks, life experience, Game.

Post: #23

"I am a huge advocate of martial arts and I have been boxing since I was a young cub. There are still many ways to out-alpha a good fighter.

Some examples?

Mastery of your domain, money, humor, good looks, life experience, Game."


So true, I think especially humor and a quick wit are the most essential alpha skills.

And if you are reading this and think 'oh shit', don't worry, betas can still get girls, and still do quite often.

Being alpha is more essential in situations where you have direct competition and are out of your natural environment. Then it is like having a turbo switch you can flick on.

Post: #24

(06-18-2010 06:20 AM)beebopaloo Wrote:  "I am a huge advocate of martial arts and I have been boxing since I was a young cub. There are still many ways to out-alpha a good fighter.

Some examples?

Mastery of your domain, money, humor, good looks, life experience, Game."


So true, I think especially humor and a quick wit are the most essential alpha skills.

For sure, Humor and quick wit are much better skills to have then Ju Jitsu or wrestling. Fighting is just one form of confidence training. But we all know, The tongue is the most powerful weapon.

Post: #25

(06-08-2010 11:55 PM)stein Wrote:  Say you're out on a first date at a bar with a girl (because Roosh said no coffee dates). Typically you'll find that you have a choice to sit:

a. At the bar
b. Across from her at a table of two (preferably a small table)
c. Next to her at a table or booth.
d. Wasted, on the pot, with your pants down as she licks your b...never mind.

Opinions/stories/rants are welcome. I understand I might have to try out a few different things to find what works best for me.

I just wanted to take a minute and thank everyone of you for all the good advice so far. I've learnt a lot here.

I'm a big believer in venue changes on dates. I usually start out someplace where I can sit across from her at a small table or next to her at a bar. Once we're both loosened up and comfortable I suggest going for a glass of wine around the corner (to someplace quieter with booths.) I just sit next to her, no questions asked. Sitting beside a girl at a booth feels really intimate and is a great way to escalate.