Post: #26

(03-20-2013 03:55 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  I am not saying your wrong.

My comment about showin up drunk was not a joke.

I know it wasn't. That's a legit move. I've been out to scripp clubs with some older VP's that have families and shit but never a MD. It's funny to see how the older guys get such a kick out of a night out like that. They have their hall pass from wifey and are itching for that pay-for-play.

Post: #27

McKinsey employees get INSANE vacation time. ABSOLUTELY INSANE AMOUNTS. And I am talking about employees in the country the OP is from. If your down with the long hours and then being rewarded with big vacay payouts I'd say do it.

Post: #28

(03-20-2013 04:02 PM)presidentcarter Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 03:55 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  I am not saying your wrong.

My comment about showin up drunk was not a joke.

I know it wasn't. That's a legit move. I've been out to scripp clubs with some older VP's that have families and shit but never a MD. It's funny to see how the older guys get such a kick out of a night out like that. They have their hall pass from wifey and are itching for that pay-for-play.

Why hang out with VPs?

Go with the md get him to love you. Now slack off a bit. Get the guy above you to hate your guts. Turn in perfect work to your MD don't give the associate the document. Now he doesn't know why the associate is bitching your work is perfect, then the associate freaks out because you didn't let him turn it. Now he is looking like a useless guy. Say you're going to quit now. Oh whoops they realize then can just promote you.

Why wait the 2-3 years to get promoted? Fuck that jump the layer.

Do you see what I did there?

Real work game

Post: #29

What are the benefits? Do you get anything but the salary?

Post: #30

Thanks for all the replies guys. This forum is an invaluable source.

(03-20-2013 02:18 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  If Vicious or anyone here spent as much time slaving away for themselves as they'd slave away at a job, they would eventually start a really successful business. Then every hour of work would be equity in your own business.

For all it's virtues Sweden is not the best place to run your own business when being employed has such titanic benefits over being self-employed.

I have been thinking about something smaller with a passive income on the side. In order to allow me to work part-time on my main job. But until I catch a break in the green card lottery the ROI on having my own business is not worth it.

(03-20-2013 04:56 PM)little wing Wrote:  What are the benefits? Do you get anything but the salary?

The network, the experiences, power...
A metric fuckton of frequent flyer and hotel loyality program points. But if you're making bank stuff that doesn't really matter since you can just buy any upgrades you'd want.

(03-20-2013 04:06 PM)gandt Wrote:  McKinsey employees get INSANE vacation time. ABSOLUTELY INSANE AMOUNTS. And I am talking about employees in the country the OP is from. If your down with the long hours and then being rewarded with big vacay payouts I'd say do it.

This is true in theory, but no one at McKinsey ever has the time to take out their vacation time. In the end most people exchange wads of it for monentary compensation.

---

I'm going to meet them and hear their offer at least. I unfortunately don't think I have the stamina to grind until 40 but it's not in me to give up without trying.

Watch this space...

Post: #31

(03-20-2013 05:14 PM)Vicious Wrote:  Thanks for all the replies guys. This forum is an invaluable source.

(03-20-2013 02:18 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  If Vicious or anyone here spent as much time slaving away for themselves as they'd slave away at a job, they would eventually start a really successful business. Then every hour of work would be equity in your own business.

For all it's virtues Sweden is not the best place to run your own business when being employed has such titanic benefits over being self-employed.

I have been thinking about something smaller with a passive income on the side. In order to allow me to work part-time on my main job. But until I catch a break in the green card lottery the ROI on having my own business is not worth it.

(03-20-2013 04:06 PM)gandt Wrote:  McKinsey employees get INSANE vacation time. ABSOLUTELY INSANE AMOUNTS. And I am talking about employees in the country the OP is from. If your down with the long hours and then being rewarded with big vacay payouts I'd say do it.

This is true in theory, but no one at McKinsey ever has the time to take out their vacation time. In the end most people exchange wads of it for monentary compensation.

---

I'm going to meet them and hear their offer at least. I unfortunately don't think I have the stamina to grind until 40 but it's not in me to give up without trying.

Watch this space...

I don't know the culture well, but
you could always try to tell them you want the job, but you will be TAKING YOUR VACATION TIME and you need it in writing.

Say your best performance depends on it, and you don't want to offer less than your best.

Also, what are you SAVING now ( 401k) -- you should be maxing it out with 80k. HOw much can you save/sheleter at the new job?

A 40k increase might mean you are doubling your saving rate, if you can hold out 30 months, you can ditch out with savings equal to 5 years of your current job or the like.

It's not how much you make but how much you save.

Also headhunters are total lying pricks for the most part. You can't count on anything the guy tells you. He may be really distorting what's going on.

Post: #32

I used to work at a consulting firm that shared a building with McKinsey -the only other company in the building. It's a brand name consulting firm that recruits heavily from the Ivies here in the US. Many kids coming out of the Ivies get lured into consulting for the big check and are able to hack the long hours while they're young and impressionable. However, I'm not sure how an office in Sweden would compare with one in the States.

Assuming it's similar to the office culture here, at 35 you really don't want to be grinding it out in the rat race. You should be on autopilot at that stage in your career IMO. It doesn't even sound like you want to become partner so you probably won't be able to stomach the grind.

I would do as Westcoast said and get an offer in writing to present to your current employer to get them to make a counteroffer.

But to offer more specific advice I'd need more details about the position and probably other info you may not want to share publicly. PM me if you want.

Post: #33

Like a lot of others said here, an opportunity to work at McKinsey is much like an opportunity to attend Harvard. I'd strongly consider the opportunity if it becomes an actual offer. Aspire to make partner and work that angle as long as you can do it sanely. Once you exit out of the firm with a few years of partner-level money you can probably straight up retire out of the corporate world. At that point you can probably use capital to live out your dreams and maybe start your own business somewhere (like a beachside bar or restaurant or something else lol).

Otherwise as others stated, use this as leverage at your current firm.

Post: #34

Take the impression you have of McKinsey and list the pros and cons. Now take away half the pros and you have an accurate picture. I'm a consultant and trust me, we are full of shit, especially when we're recruiting. McKinsey are the best bullshitters among us. They're not any better than BCG or Bain, but they've done a damn good job at making people perceive them as somehow better, cooler or more prestigious.

I'm still glad I took a consulting job, but it's only about half as great as I thought it would be. In the long-term, I plan to start my own business. WestCoast had the best advice.

Post: #35

(03-20-2013 05:20 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 05:14 PM)Vicious Wrote:  Thanks for all the replies guys. This forum is an invaluable source.

(03-20-2013 02:18 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  If Vicious or anyone here spent as much time slaving away for themselves as they'd slave away at a job, they would eventually start a really successful business. Then every hour of work would be equity in your own business.

For all it's virtues Sweden is not the best place to run your own business when being employed has such titanic benefits over being self-employed.

I have been thinking about something smaller with a passive income on the side. In order to allow me to work part-time on my main job. But until I catch a break in the green card lottery the ROI on having my own business is not worth it.

(03-20-2013 04:06 PM)gandt Wrote:  McKinsey employees get INSANE vacation time. ABSOLUTELY INSANE AMOUNTS. And I am talking about employees in the country the OP is from. If your down with the long hours and then being rewarded with big vacay payouts I'd say do it.

This is true in theory, but no one at McKinsey ever has the time to take out their vacation time. In the end most people exchange wads of it for monentary compensation.

---

I'm going to meet them and hear their offer at least. I unfortunately don't think I have the stamina to grind until 40 but it's not in me to give up without trying.

Watch this space...

I don't know the culture well, but
you could always try to tell them you want the job, but you will be TAKING YOUR VACATION TIME and you need it in writing.

Say your best performance depends on it, and you don't want to offer less than your best.

Also, what are you SAVING now ( 401k) -- you should be maxing it out with 80k. HOw much can you save/sheleter at the new job?

A 40k increase might mean you are doubling your saving rate, if you can hold out 30 months, you can ditch out with savings equal to 5 years of your current job or the like.

It's not how much you make but how much you save.

Also headhunters are total lying pricks for the most part. You can't count on anything the guy tells you. He may be really distorting what's going on.

He is in Sweden. No 401ks, different tax rules.

Post: #36

Read this thread with interest.

At first I Was like 'whoa McKinsey'

That lasted about 5 minutes.

Fuck all that shit. Keep the nice agreeable gig and enjoy all the different areas of life.

Post: #37

Look at it like this. It isn't really 4-5 years of your life, because odds are you'll be pushed or burn out of any MBB consulting job in 1.5. For that, you'll probably learn more and rub up against the right people more than any single other gig you take. Worth it? Up to you. I'd go in with your exact exit option in mind - and there's a 90%+ chance it ain't further up the McK ladder.

Post: #38

I know people in McKinsey and the other firms. I also interviewed there before but didn't have enough work experience for the role at the time.

Here's my impression. The people are very smart, some smarter than they think they are but on average pretty smart. Then you can break it down to people who are tools that take themselves too fucking serious and people who are actually legit cool. Frankly, the people is probably the best part of the job and frankly the only thing that really appealed to me.

The problem is the culture and client is everything mentality. You will work for X days on a project. It's going to not be enough to finish, and you will have to work late and weekends without billing that time. When I met with the partner he said he normally worked a 11-12 hour day and that's better than the 15-16 hour he used to do when he was grinding up the ladder. It never really gets that much better on hours. Unless you make partner, you will not make that much money. I would have had to take a pay cut to go to McKinsey actually.

And while everyone thinks about how great traveling is, that shit wears on you really fucking fast. I'm in a decent but not great consulting firm right now and I fucking hate working outside of London. I couldn't imagine having to fly cross-country every day. I work with consultants at my current client right now that do that and they fucking hate that. At least McKinsey from what I heard pays for the weekend so you can stay in your country without flying back if you want to but you're probably too busy/exhausted to enjoy it.

That said, you will have great opportunities after leaving the firm and you can probably network the shit out of that. McKinsey is like gold on your resume but I sometimes think it gets overrated on that part. The thing is, you would have decent opportunities if you worked at any decent company. Back at the F500 internet firm I worked for, half the people there were former consultants but only like half of them had worked at a known consulting firm. The fact headhunters are trying to place you in Mckinsey shows how unnecessary it is for your overall career. But to be fair, the head of Europe was a former Mckinsey partner. Within the corporate world, a top consulting firm will really help you but it's not the be all end all.

If I were in your shoes in the mid-30's, I'm 30, I would be have a hard time choosing to take it or not. I've debated about applying again to those firms but I've never really pushed too hard to go for them again. My current gig pays way too much for how little I work, it's actually been a good base for me to get my start up going with my friend. Working for yourself is so much more rewarding than working for the man doing shit work. That's the thing about prestigious companies, if it wasn't prestigious you wouldn't do the shitty work otherwise. I don't miss doing endless powerpoint and excel models back at my F500 internet firm. I know people in other internet known firms that could get me a role there but I just freeze when I think about doing that shit work again.

But first, get the offer before you make any life choices here.

Post: #39

You definitely should go to the mckinsey recruitment process.
With that said I met a chick that worked in Mckinsey Poland. She wanted to rent a woman to conceive her child, so that she wouldn´t have to stop working.
Anyway if you have an oportunity to work there do it, for at least 1 year. Just for the line in your resumé and some know how and lingo.
I have my own office, and a lot of time the question I get asked from new clients is: "what´s your background?" In my opinion Mckinsey is a good background.
I´ve made the recruitment process to Mckinsey when I finished university and failed. The tests are hard. Nowadays it would be really hard for me to work in a closed environment with someone giving me orders. Maybe one year just to extract more know how.

Post: #40

If you're being considered by firms like McKinsey you clearly have some valuable skills that you could shop around to either smaller firms or companies that are not in consulting but need consultants. In other words, with your skills and at this stage in your life, I think it's much better to be a big fish in a small pond rather than a small fish in a big one.

One of my best friends from college works as a management consultant at Genentech (biotech firm in Cali) after honing his skills at a full service consulting firm. Genentech gives him $365/day spending allowance just on food! He only eats at michelin star restos when he travels for work. They send him to cities like Paris, Zurich, Bern, Sao Paulo, Lima, and Istanbul. Not a bad a life!

So, even if you do take the offer, think outside of just the partner track being the main opportunity. Even with just two years in at McKinsey, that brand name experience will make you more marketable for different opportunities, even those outside of consulting.

Post: #41

(03-20-2013 11:35 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 11:14 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

(03-20-2013 10:43 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  You are only giving us one part of the equation.

What is the alternative?

Making 80k in a real cushy job (40h/week) currently which would likely be at 100k at 40. 6 weeks of paid vacation. I have some additional sources of income but nothing that really adds a significant percentage.

Both of the scenarios J r pose appeal to me, might add that I desire an heir at some point.

YMG gave a possibility that is amazingly simple yet might be the best option.

What does this new gig pay for 80h per week?

What will the new gig pay at age 40?

We need a Mangoes to Mangoes comparison.

We will discuss almost anything here to the bitter end.

We still don't even know the income comparison to even start thinking about which is a better option.

Post: #42

@OP- forget this mckinsey job. Sounds like the "prestigious lawyer jobs"- work 90hrs/week get 100k dollar salary. Really your just treading water. Better work 40 hrs/week for 50k and side-hustle. W/the 90hrs work-week, your health, life, sex will decline.

Westcoast has the best advice. This is a leverage opportunity. Sidenote, Westcoast IRL is pretty humble, fairly quiet. So don't have the exact attitude he is portraying on the forum.

Just be firm and polite- "Listen boss, I have this offer from McKinsey. They really want me to go there. I like working here, but they are tempting me w/a salary bump and the "McKinsey prestige bump". I would like to stay. What can WE do about this?"

Play both sides. Win. Squeeze this lemon for all the juice you can.

Post: #43

There is no offer, so there is not much to talk about at this point. McKinsey interviews are no joke, it's not like "what was your greatest challenge in the last five years."

Post: #44

Use the perception that you are a wanted man from the top company in Consulting no brainer man.

Example again: "hey I got a job from Citadel, what can we do about this? At slightly smaller hedge fund?"

People want prestige where your goal is you want more responsibility. That creates trust = even more responsibility. What's more impressive? A 21 year old VP at say booze Hamilton or a 21 year old junior McKinsey consultant. The answer is be VP and you know it.

The dumbasses IRL follow the plan, leverage bro.

Obsession with prestige is obsession with people's perception of you

Post: #45

(03-21-2013 11:00 AM)Menace Wrote:  There is no offer, so there is not much to talk about at this point. McKinsey interviews are no joke, it's not like "what was your greatest challenge in the last five years."

I agree. I'm not going to overthink this anymore until I have the actual offer in writing.

I'm going to wait until tomorrow to contact them.

Post: #46

I interviewed with McK, first was the PST exam, it was HARD.
After that a case interview, I had studied so I could pass it.
The night before the final case interview we had a little cocktail to know the other "competitors", most of the people there were nerds, overachievers, etc:

"3.9 GPA from a STEM degree from a good university, in my part time I climb mountains and build houses for the poor children" Dafuq!

Final case interview I rocked one, I blew up the other one and the fit with the partner was not that good.

They rejected me and I can't apply in 2 years.

Post: #47

This is for McKinsey Operations (Lean) so it's going to be all about the case interviews.

Post: #48

Think long and hard about how much of your enthusiasm stem from the fact, that they headhunted you. Not saying you necessarily are, but it is easy to get flattered by the fact that people actively wants and seeks out you. The more value we have assigned to the seeker, the more we tend to try and live up to their expectations.

Don't go living someone else's dream.

Just a thought - good luck with your decision.

Post: #49

I'd exercise some caution if you get around to asking your current employer for a counter offer. Some employers will make the counter offer to keep from losing you short term but immediately start looking for your replacement and you'll be gone in 6 months. Instead I wouldn't even mention the McKinsey offer and just state why you deserve a promotion/raise/whatever. If they give it to you great. If they don't give your notice and walk. There's an implicit threat in asking for a promotion and good employers will recognize it without making you show your full hand.

Post: #50

(03-21-2013 04:40 PM)Ensam Wrote:  I'd exercise some caution if you get around to asking your current employer for a counter offer. Some employers will make the counter offer to keep from losing you short term but immediately start looking for your replacement and you'll be gone in 6 months. Instead I wouldn't even mention the McKinsey offer and just state why you deserve a promotion/raise/whatever. If they give it to you great. If they don't give your notice and walk. There's an implicit threat in asking for a promotion and good employers will recognize it without making you show your full hand.

You are saying he sucks at his job.

If they are going to fuck you over like that they didn't like you in the first place.

He doesn't have to ask for anything, you want them to want you.

1. They say okay bye! = good you made the right move by leaving
2. They say "holy shit no wait hold on how can we fix this"
3. Your situation, at least you got paid more for a while, because situation 1 would have occurred without the pay raise, would fire you long term