Post: #126

1.Iceland does not have euro.
2.In Iceland the banks went bankrupt. In Greece the state went bankrupt and bailed out.

Post: #127

Pretty sure Iceland (the state) went bankrupt. I don't have the time now but I'll check it later.

Post: #128

(04-03-2013 07:15 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Pretty sure Iceland (the state) went bankrupt. I don't have the time now but I'll check it later.

I'm sure it was just the banks, but the banks rolled up debts over 10 times iceland's GDP, iceland nationalised the banks and needed to bail them out

Post: #129

Iceland didn't go bankrupt. They would have if they took on the debts of the bank.

Post: #130

Yes, I think they let the banks collapse.English lost a lot of money by this and now they have Icelanders on trial (why they did not bail out their banks).

It is like this:
1.Greece-state bankrupt, banks healthy.State needs to bailed out and then proceeds to haircut of debt a lot of which is carried obligatorily by Greek banks.So the latter need a well to bailed out.
2.Cyprus-state healthy, banks bankrupt.Haircut is enforced on bank deposits and the banks get bailed out by money from ECB and IMF given as loan to Cypriot state (so state is now heavily indebted)
3.Ireland-state healthy, banks bankrupt. The state guarantees the debt of the banks and becomes bankrupt as well.It gives the money it gets from ECB and IMF to banks to bail them out.
4.Portugal I do not know.

So each case is totally different as our friend Dr. Schäuble(aka officer Callahan) has repeatedly told.

Dr. Schäuble talking to Greek politicians (bandits).Do you feel lucky punk?






Dirty Wolfgang killing Cyprus bankers. Do you feel lucky punk?

Post: #131

(04-03-2013 07:15 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Pretty sure Iceland (the state) went bankrupt. I don't have the time now but I'll check it later.

The state went de-facto bankrupt because, following the demise of all of its banks, the value of Iceland Krona temporarily became zero*. That makes sense - if you know 99% of largest institutions from a country will "swindle" your deposits, why would you ever give them any of your currency which has actual backing? So it's not an official bankruptcy like, say, Argentina suddenly declaring that it won't pay its bonds, but still a very real one.

But Iceland is a rather self-sufficient country, despite (or because?) of being so small and isolated, and it easily pulled through the short period that it took for other countries to start accepting its currency again and normal trading resuming, etc. It's not like people were starving in Reykyavik because they couldn't import food or something. There was a temporary distruption at best.

All in all, Iceland does represent a great example of not going for the banks' bullshit and subsidizing their irresponsible behaviour (unlike Ireland, USA, UK, etc), which I applaud. But you must keep in mind that it did it from a position of strength. If Greece or Portugal did that (either a formal or de-facto bankruptcy), the chaos and suffering would be unimaginable. I don't ever want to see that happen.

* = ...on 7 October 2008 the Icelandic Central Bank attempted to peg it at 131 against the euro. This peg was abandoned the next day. The króna later fell to 340 against the euro before trade in the currency was suspended. After a period of tentative, very low-volume international trading in the króna, activity had been expected to pick up again throughout November 2008, albeit still with low liquidity, as Iceland secured an International Monetary Fund loan.

Post: #132

Just because your currency gets trashed that doesn't mean you have gone bankrupt. Yes their currency tanked over night and interest rates went to 20% but the government didn't go under.

Post: #133

(04-04-2013 12:49 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  Just because your currency gets trashed that doesn't mean you have gone bankrupt. Yes their currency tanked over night and interest rates went to 20% but the government didn't go under.

I would qualify any sort of devaluation as a bankruptcy event of some kind.

Post: #134

You might consider a devaluation going bankrupt but investors don't.

Japan has devalued 25% this year. Are they bankrupt ?

Post: #135

(04-04-2013 03:29 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  Are they bankrupt ?

Yes

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-04...their-debt

Post: #136

You are saying that the japanese yen lost 25% this year against the US Dollars ?

Post: #137

We all know they are in serious trouble. But they are not bankrupt. All bond payments are met and interest being paid and all social safety net cheques are all going through. When the stock market corrects a bit you will see people flee to the JPY. Would institutions and billionaire investors flood into Japan if they were bankrupt like you claim ?
   

Is this country insolvent yet ?

Post: #138

(04-04-2013 09:23 PM)Viata Wrote:  You are saying that the japanese yen lost 25% this year against the US Dollars ?

Yes

   

Post: #139

(04-04-2013 03:29 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  You might consider a devaluation going bankrupt but investors don't.

Japan has devalued 25% this year. Are they bankrupt ?

Iceland just froze currency trading when it reached a 25% devaluation because it was obvious that it would have reached close to 100% in the next few days, similar to how stock exchanges shut down trading upon seeing massive price swings. That's why it's a de-facto bankruptcy. It acknowledged the inevitable. The trading in Icelandic krona was frozen for a long time and hadn't resumed in any significant volume for the next few months, until it got outside assistance to give its currency a stable base. If that's not bankruptcy, I don't know what is. Of course, that doesn't mean that Iceland suffered much from it.

Japan, on the other hand, is nowhere near bankrupt. It's possible that the Yen will be devalued further, but extremely unlikely that it will be completely devalued. There is not enough information available to predict that Japan will somehow go bankrupt. Biginjapan provides some indications that it might happen in the distant future, but I don't think it's anywhere near certain.

Post: #140

Did any of you guys pay attention to the Japanese market last night ?

It was wild. I didn't do anything except watch news and the charts last night. BOJ may have over stepped.

Post: #141

(04-05-2013 02:33 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  Did any of you guys pay attention to the Japanese market last night ?

It was wild. I didn't do anything except watch news and the charts last night. BOJ may have over stepped.

Yep, I've been following ZH's coverage. Funny how after you told me that devaluation wasn't a bankruptcy, Japan immediately starts to have massive problems after they devalued their currency.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-05...t-breakers

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-04...visualized

Japan = Next Greece (except no one will bail them out)

Post: #142

(04-05-2013 03:08 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(04-05-2013 02:33 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  Did any of you guys pay attention to the Japanese market last night ?

It was wild. I didn't do anything except watch news and the charts last night. BOJ may have over stepped.

Yep, I've been following ZH's coverage. Funny how after you told me that devaluation wasn't a bankruptcy, Japan immediately starts to have massive problems after they devalued their currency.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-05...t-breakers

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-04...visualized

Japan = Next Greece (except no one will bail them out)

I guess you weren't looking hard enough. Just because bond prices collapsed and then went parabolic doesn't in anyway represent a bankruptcy. Did the government shut down ? Were bills not paid ? Was there a bank holiday ?

The stock market went up last night. Does that sound like a bankrupt country to me

Post: #143

(04-05-2013 04:03 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  

(04-05-2013 03:08 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(04-05-2013 02:33 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  Did any of you guys pay attention to the Japanese market last night ?

It was wild. I didn't do anything except watch news and the charts last night. BOJ may have over stepped.

Yep, I've been following ZH's coverage. Funny how after you told me that devaluation wasn't a bankruptcy, Japan immediately starts to have massive problems after they devalued their currency.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-05...t-breakers

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-04...visualized

Japan = Next Greece (except no one will bail them out)

I guess you weren't looking hard enough. Just because bond prices collapsed and then went parabolic doesn't in anyway represent a bankruptcy. Did the government shut down ? Were bills not paid ? Was there a bank holiday ?

The stock market went up last night. Does that sound like a bankrupt country to me

If someone has 50K in debt but only 10K in their bank, and it's all due by the end of the month, at what point are they considered bankrupt?

The masses think bankruptcy is when the end of the month comes, but economists think bankruptcy as soon as the month starts.

Japan is devaluing their currency because they cannot escape their overbearing debt loads... and it's going to backfire hard. The circuit breakers on the 10 year yields got tripped. I can't wait for Monday.

Post: #144

Look at the chart again. It hit a 10 year low and then went back to where it has been trading all year. Look back a full year and it is trading well within its normal range. What about that chart signals bankruptcy ? Japan has devalued 25% and it is not bankrupt or insolvent.

People going bankrupt is a lot different than countries going bankrupt. Nearly every country would be bankrupt if they were held to the same standard as the individual.

You know as well as I do that Japan is not bankrupt. The examples of zerohedge are more than likely foreshadowing and I agree Japan is going down hard. But Japan is not bankrupt

Post: #145

Post: #146

(04-05-2013 03:08 PM)Samseau Wrote:  [...]

Japan = Next Greece (except no one will bail them out)

JPN= next p00n paradise ???

Post: #147

Maybe look at a long term chart like old guys like me---who've heard predictions of doom every year for 30 years--do?

It was even lower 15 years ago. Maybe the sky is falling, but it fell lower before and Jap chicks still kept making that great squealing fuck sound they do.

Who cares how much a new toyota costs compared to that?

You youngsters need to keep your priorities straight.

You cannot compete with the Three Trolls of the Rooshpocalypse.

Post: #148

Quote:It was even lower 15 years ago. Maybe the sky is falling, but it fell lower before and Jap chicks still kept making that great squealing fuck sound they do.

Post: #149

All gold wasn't seized in the thirties. It was required by law to turn it in, yes, and a very very small amount of people were arrested for not doing so (they declared publicly they were refusing) but most people did not turn their gold in, and the authorities never got to it.

Bottom line, be careful out there people. Stay safe, stay prosperous, and don't trust the gov't.

Post: #150

Do you think it is profitable for the bankers to have a panic hyper-inflation as a result ?