Post: #101

Interesting link, showing how other countries including Spain, NZ and the UK have been considering using 'depositor recapitalisation' schemes.

Pretty scary stuff.

http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/03/plunde...king-game/

Post: #102

Bitcoins it is lol

Post: #103

Laiki bank made two terrible mistakes

1) Tried to expand very fast and make a lot of profit very quickly but failed

2) Loaned money to people who weren't supposed to be allowed to get loans. Again they thought they were going to make fast profits but fucked it up.

Post: #104

Let God sort them out.

Post: #105

Schauble has undertaken the duty to penetrate and destroy all balloon economies.We talk about ruthless German efficiency.He will not stop till all the balloons deflate and Germany can undertake the restructure.Italy is left as a dessert with Berlusconi as the last swallowed sweet.

Post: #106

(03-21-2013 07:08 PM)Partizan Wrote:  http://www.eutimes.net/2013/03/russian-l...banks-now/

Statement from the Russian MFA sent to its embassies around the world urging all Russian nationals and businesses to divest themselves from Western banking institutions.

Read the entire article and it is really quite self serving on the Kremlin's part as the reason for all of this offshore Russian wealth is the fact that the Russians remember the giant ruble devaluation scalping they all got in 1998 and they basically do not trust the Kremlin to keep their paws off of anyone's accounts who are not one of the Kremlin's marionettes on a string.

Cases in point Yukos-Mikhail Khdorokovsky and Hermitage-Magnitsky the former still rotting in prison and the latter who died in a grim remote Russian prison from beatings and medical neglect. Reminiscent of KGB tactics and rich Russians only too familiar with how ruthless and lethal it can be to get on the wrong side of the Kremlin political elites and merely politically connecteds.

Ancient Proverb:
The tiger to catch the wolf pretends to be a sheep... bascially Medvedev is claiming the sky is falling! Why Putin decided not to bail out all the Russian Gray Money in Cyprus with the Kremlins reported $537 Billion trade surplus 40% held in Euros from all the Oil and NatGaz EU buys from RU.

Why - this is Putin's perfect pretext to use irrational fear of mass western bank seizures to leverage as much of the offshore RU Money possible be repatriated to the Russian Federation where he can suggest projects for the Oiligarchs to fund just like Sochi Olympic Venues and the next FIFA venues in Russia. Of course the smart Russians keep their emergency FU money in Switzerland gold, London GBP and NYC USD as they all know if they challenge United Russia party elites they will be the next to get the Yukos & Hermitage treatment...

A Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) “urgent bulletin” being sent to Embassies around the world today is advising both Russian citizens and companies to begin divesting their assets from Western banking and financial institutions “immediately” as Kremlin fears grow that both the European Union and United States are preparing for the largest theft of private wealth in modern history.

According to this “urgent bulletin,” this warning is being made at the behest of Prime Minister Medvedev who earlier today warned against the Western banking systems actions against EU Member Cyprus by stating:
“All possible mistakes that could be made have been made by them, the measure that was proposed is of a confiscation nature, and unprecedented in its character. I can’t compare it with anything but … decisions made by Soviet authorities … when they didn’t think much about the savings of their population. But we are living in the 21st century, under market economic conditions. Everybody has been insisting that ownership rights should be respected.”

Medvedev’s statements echo those of President Putin who, likewise, warned about the EU’s unprecedented private asset grab in Cyprus calling it “unjust, unprofessional, and dangerous.”

In our 17 March report “Europe Recoils In Shock After Bankster Raid, US Warned Is Next” we noted how Russian entities have €23-31 billion ($30-$40) in cross-border loans to Cypriot companies tied to Moscow, and €9 billion ($12 billion) on deposit with Cypriot banks [as compared to the €127 billion ($166 billion) being kept in similar circumstances by 60 of the United States largest corporations in offshore accounts to avoid paying American taxes] which are in danger of being confiscated by EU banksters.

The last statement is particularly bogus for two reasons - these American Multinationals derive over 51% of their revenues offshore and employ a huge number of European locals who basically run the European divisions and all the major European companies have massive operations in the USA - PLUS if one reads about the NYT exposes on how Apple and all major techs use "Double Irish with Dutch sandwiches" to shelter and reduce US and EU tax exposures what they will discover is that the majority of the offshore entity assets actually sit in - yes - USA banks held by the foreign affiliate entities of the US Multinationals in Apples case in holding corps with Apple type names Baldwin and Braeburn. Google it.

Point is Kremlin has decided to use this crisis to rattle their Oiligarchs and grey marketeers chains especially all the hot Russian money swirling around Cyprus.

The article goes on completely oblivious to the fact that the USA is Monetarily Sovereign and can never run out of Money and Can pay any bills any time and pay off all debts whenever it may wish by transferring electronic dollars into any debt holders bank accounts (T Bills and US bonds).

So the following is just fear mongering:

Even worse may be what is in store for the Americans, who on 31 January lost an unlimited US government guarantee that was granted on over $1.5 trillion of their bank deposits during the 2008 financial crisis to assure skittish customers that their cash was safe.

According to Kremlin sources, though, President Obama’s sudden visit to Israel this week, the first he has made since being elected in 2008, was to personally warn top Israelis of his regimes “plan” to begin confiscating his citizen’s bank deposits too.

Interesting to note is that the Obama regimes “master plan” to steal their citizen’s wealth that is no longer protected was detailed by the global management consulting giant, and the world’s leading advisor on business strategy, The Boston Consulting Group (BCG) who in their 2011 September report titled Collateral Damage: Back to Mesopotamia? The Threat of Debt Restructuring warned of the US governments plan confiscate up to 30% of not just the Americans people bank accounts, but also of their other wealth.

The highly respected Zero Hedge financial newsletter in commenting on this dire BCG report grimly stated:

“Denial. Denial is safe. Comforting. Religiously and relentlessly abused by politicians who don’t want nor can face reality. A word synonymous with “muddle through.” Ah yes, that “muddle through” which so many C-grade economists and pundits believe is the long-term status quo for the US and the world just because it worked for Japan for the past three decades, or, said otherwise, “just because.”

Then the punch line:

The facts which state that the only way to resolve the massive debt load is through a global coordinated debt restructuring (which would, among other things, push all global banks into bankruptcy) which, when all is said and done, will have to be funded by the world’s financial asset holders: the middle-and upper-class, which, if BCS is right, have a ~30% one-time tax on all their assets to look forward to as the great mean reversion finally arrives and the world is set back on a viable path.

Which again ignores MMT and the realities of modern electronic money systems all in the name of FUD fear uncertainty and doubt.

I suspect you will see massive outflows of cash from the PIIGS as well as Cyprus and the EE EU members as a result of this. Who wins London, Zurich, Geneva, Singapore and even NYC and Miami both banks and real estate holdings to park cash in hard assets.

Now I see why the Russian Oiligarch's I met in Moscow were holding so much wealth in London GBP, some in NYC USD and large hard gold bullion deposits in private Swiss Bank account vaults.

I remember one Russian telling me in Moscow March 2010 "The Euro is SHIT!" sort of surprised me really but was rather well explained why here:

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2011/...oland.html

Post: #107

The latest: http://news.yahoo.com/cyprus-risks-euro-...iness.html

Finance Minister Michael Sarris, fresh from a failed trip to win funds from Moscow, said a bank deposit levy was back "on the table".

Party officials told Reuters that discussions were centred on a levy on depositors holding over 100,000 euros. One official said the tax could be limited to big savers at the island's biggest lender, Bank of Cyprus, at 20 percent.

Post: #108

   

Post: #109

Will the Fed and Wall Street "Cyprus" your USA bank and 401K retirement accounts next?

It happened in Argentina - nationalized all private retirement funds & Cyprus considered it.

Face it the USA is facing a $121 Trillion infunded Debt and Federal State and Local government padded plush pensions liability...

Irony is Cyprus was a wealthy country until ECB strong armed them into buying Greek Debt that went bad - looks like Moscow and ECB and IMF using this as a chance to flush out Russian off shore money the same way Senator Carl Levin, Obama and the IRS attacked the Swiss banks that offered tax advantaged accounts to USA clients.

Our national local state and Federal debts dwarf Cyprus so could it happen here in the USA?

http://sovereign-investor.com/2013/03/19...k-account/

Post: #110

(03-21-2013 04:34 PM)Deepdiver Wrote:  Interesting:

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-tic...51783.html

“At this stage of a recovery normalized interest rates should be around 2-3%,” says Rickards. “Apply that 2-3%…to the entire multi-trillion-dollar deposit base of the United States of America and that’s a $400-billion per year wealth transfer from savers to bankers so they can pay themselves bigger bonuses or make crazy bets.” Over time, Rickards says, that wealth transfer could reach $1 trillion.

This is the way I explain it to people, if I am a working class saver, 1% interest rates will earn my $1 million about $10,000 a year. If I am a business class entrepreneur, 1% interest rates mean I can leverage that $1 million in to just about any business (since 2%,3%,4%, etc returns are pretty easy to get) and make $1 million (or more) a year off of it.

However, if interest rates are 7%, if I am a working class saver my $1 million will earn me about $70,000 a year. But, if I am a business class entrepreneur the opportunities which I can use leverage to make money from have dropped by a lot. I might make more than $70,000 a year off that $1 million, but its going to be a hell of a lot harder.

As for people in this thread complaining about these proposed bank account taxing schemes, consider this:

-In the United States, if your bank fails and you have about the FDIC insured amount in it, you lose all of it. There were plenty of stories about normal people who had money in their accounts very temporarily, for example, selling their homes, and lost it because it just happened to be when their bank failed.

-None of that money is really even in the bank account, savings or checkings, the bank already lent it out to someone else multiple times (fractional reserve lending.)

-Even the safest banks in the US, if 10 or 20% of depositors decided to withdraw their funds, would collapse.

-During a bank run the safest banks balance sheet's have a tendency to benefit because depositors are moving their cash out of banks they aren't sure about. I always bank based on safety first, interest rates second.

Post: #111

The Democrats have been having discussions for years about going after 401ks and IRAs. That's a huge pile of juicy loot they want to get their hands on in order to redistribute it to their constituents in exchange for votes.

Post: #112

Interesting perspective by a respected MMTer:

http://mythfighter.com/2013/03/24/the-de...an-empire/

Post: #113

HOLY DEATH OF THE EURO:

http://news.yahoo.com/bank-cyprus-big-sa...nance.html

Bank of Cyprus big savers to lose up to 60 percent

Would take Christ himself resurrecting on the alter of Saint Peter to fix this fiasco - who in their right minds would hold Euros in any ECB-IMF-World bank influenced European sub-Bank to risk a 60% SEIZURE of their wealth - makes the 75% French Tax and real 68.3% French max Pensioners tax look positively civil by comparison - remember this is money the savers ALREADY paid taxes on!!!

Post: #114

The euro will come stronger out of this.It has all to do with the incompetent elites.We threw them to the dogs(Germans).Germans are like pitbulls they will not stop till they eat the wealth of the elites to the bone.

To understand the current crisis there are scenes from Tarantino movies.One is in Django when the German guy kills the Southerner and then he says:Excuse me I could not resist.''
Generally the Germans play on information and power assymetry and deepen their superiority through bluff.The problem for the South is that you never know when they bluff or not.For example they may have bluffed in the case of greece to throw it out of euro unless it took the austerity measures but they did not bluff in the case of Cyprus.The idiotic Cypriots assumed the Germans were bluffing and they decided to play bluff upon bluff with the trip to Russia.Of course the Germans knew the Russians would not give a penny to Cypriots but they played annoyed and managed to convince their allies to take even more strict measures in this regard.
So the Cypriots got fucked by a series of mistakes.Their incompetency is gross they are even worse than the Greek elites(the latter now accuse the Cypriots of being idiotic,stupid,without any knowledge they came to the negotiations unprepared and did not know what to ask for).Germans make large use of southern incompetence they have smelled the chance.

Post: #115

A 60% haircut on depositors with more than 100k in their accounts. It's shocking stuff really. To say this is beyond the pale is putting it lightly.

Post: #116

Exactly they make this big haircut to send the message to the golden boys:If you dare to guarantee debt on our shoulders you get beheaded.
It is reverse capitalism.Germans put out a clusterfuck situation and keep everyone off balance.

Post: #117

Now many golden boys, bankers and ministers in Cyprus are scared to death expecting the visits of Russian mafia."Noone can steal money from Russian mafia and remain unpunished. We will kill you all, take off your skin alive and kill your family members" are the threats conveyed to them by Russians who got harmed.In London special mafia forces of huge bear looking guys managed to persuade the Cypriot bankers to withdraw billions of euro from their accounts while the negotiations still took place and the banks remained closed.It was the effect of either the oratory of these guys or their Tokarevs pointing the bankers' heads.

As it is now discovered lots of politicians had taken enormous loans by the bankers which were never paid back.Many ministers were former bankers who had bribed to get their positions.
I do not know what will be the best end for these guys.Imprisonment for life or Russian mafia visit.

Post: #118

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-02...nk-robbery

Quote:Ron Paul

The Great Cyprus Bank Robbery

The dramatic recent events in Cyprus have highlighted the fundamental weakness in the European banking system and the extreme fragility of fractional reserve banking. Cypriot banks invested heavily in Greek sovereign debt, and last summer's Greek debt restructuring resulted in losses equivalent to more than 25 percent of Cyprus' GDP. These banks then took their bad investments to the government, demanding a bailout from an already beleaguered Cypriot treasury. The government of Cyprus then turned to the European Union (EU) for a bailout.

The terms insisted upon by the troika (European Commission, European Central Bank, International Monetary Fund) before funding the bailout were nothing short of highway robbery. While bank depositors have traditionally been protected in the event of bankruptcy or liquidation, the troika insisted that all bank depositors pay a tax of between 6.75 and 10 percent of their total deposits to help fund the bailout.

While one can sympathize with EU taxpayers not wanting to fund yet another bailout of a poorly-managed banking system, forcing the Cypriot people to pay for the foolish risks taken by their government and bankers is also criminal. In their desire to punish a “tax haven” catering supposedly to Russian oligarchs, the EU elites ensured that ordinary citizens would suffer just as much as foreign depositors. Imagine the reaction if in September 2008, the US government had financed its $700 billion bank bailout by directly looting American taxpayers' bank accounts!

While the Cypriot parliament rejected that first proposal, they will have no say in the final proposal delivered by the EU and IMF: deposits over 100,000 euros are likely to see losses of at least 40 percent and possibly as much as 80 percent. “Temporary” capital controls that were supposed to last for days will now last at least a month and might remain in effect for years.

Especially affected have been the elderly, who were unable to use ATMs or to transfer money electronically. Despite the fact that ATMs severely limited the size of withdrawals during the two week-long bank closure, reports indicated that account holders who had access to Cypriot bank branches in London and Athens were able to withdraw most of their funds, leading to speculation that there would be no money available when banks finally opened up again. In other words, the supposed Russian oligarch money may well be already gone.

Remember that under a fractional reserve banking system only a small percentage of deposits is kept on hand for dispersal to depositors. The rest of the money is loaned out. Not only are many of the loans made by these banks going bad, but the reserve requirement in Euro-system countries is only one percent! If just one euro out of every hundred is withdrawn from banks, the bank reserves would be completely exhausted and the whole system would collapse. Is it any wonder, then, that the EU fears a major bank run and has shipped billions of euros to Cyprus?

The elites in the EU and IMF failed to learn their lesson from the popular backlash to these tax proposals, and have openly talked about using Cyprus as a template for future bank bailouts. This raises the prospect of raids on bank accounts, pension funds, and any investments the government can get its hands on. In other words, no one's money is safe in any financial institution in Europe. Bank runs are now a certainty in future crises, as the people realize that they do not really own the money in their accounts. How long before bureaucrat and banker try that here?

Unfortunately, all of this is the predictable result of a fiat paper money system combined with fractional reserve banking. When governments and banks collude to monopolize the monetary system so that they can create money out of thin air, the result is a business cycle that wreaks havoc on the economy. Pyramiding more and more loans on top of a tiny base of money will create an economic house of cards just waiting to collapse. The situation in Cyprus should be both a lesson and a warning to the United States. We need to end the Federal Reserve, stay away from propping up the euro, and return to a sound monetary system.

Post: #119

Maybe a stupid question, but is there anything preventing people just using gold, silver and other precious metal coins as a means of exchange? I know there are some limits on buying gold coins. I once inquired about buying some Krugerrands and was told that I could only buy one 1oz coin without further checks. But my impression wasn't that this was some sort of conspiracy, rather that it was in order to prevent money laundering.

I know with gold the denominations might be a bit big. I think the smallest Krugerrand you can get is 1/4 oz. So around $400 currently. But for smaller exchanges silver could be used.

Not saying this could replace currencies, but for people in countries where government theft from bank accounts is a possibility this may be an idea.

Post: #120

(04-02-2013 01:23 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  Maybe a stupid question, but is there anything preventing people just using gold, silver and other precious metal coins as a means of exchange? I know there are some limits on buying gold coins. I once inquired about buying some Krugerrands and was told that I could only buy one 1oz coin without further checks. But my impression wasn't that this was some sort of conspiracy, rather that it was in order to prevent money laundering.

I know with gold the denominations might be a bit big. I think the smallest Krugerrand you can get is 1/4 oz. So around $400 currently. But for smaller exchanges silver could be used.

Not saying this could replace currencies, but for people in countries where government theft from bank accounts is a possibility this may be an idea.

Nothing stops people from using it. Problem is 1% of the worlds population owns precious metals.

Post: #121

Saying the facts as they actually are, the bad investments made by the bankers, are being covered up now by confiscating 40 % - 80 % of population's savings

Post: #122

Just found this article which is interesting as it's written by an Argentinian economist who compares their 2001 crisis with Cyprus now. And it was put on the Russian media:

http://rt.com/op-edge/cyprus-economics-eu-trap-224/

Post: #123

At if staggering billions of billions dollars debt levels that US has, it is a wonder actually that the usd is still worth so much...

Post: #124

The bankers' advantage has been that they could guarantee risky portfolio management on taxpayer's money through fear of collateral damage.They could mingle mafia and legit operations and have state guarantees.Now the chair is withdrawn from their feet and they remain hanged especially the ones who made the mistake to open too much to risky lending.
It is what we call the nasty German trick the trap situation(the more you are tempted the more the repercussions).(The Germans let you lend deliberately big sums so they can burn you later with ease.Fear takes place.Who fears more?He is the one to lose.).

Post: #125

I wonder if bailouts are a good idea



http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-31...d-solution