Post: #1

Well-educated Couples Have Long Had Better Marriages

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-...-better-ma

The "open secret" that will be the focus of continuing blogs.
Published on May 27, 2012 by Dr. Shauna H. Springer in The Joint (Ad)Ventures of Well-Educated Couples
In my previous blog, I made the assertion that you do not have a “50/50 shot” at a successful marriage. For any given reader, the odds could vary dramatically, depending on a number of factors I will continue to describe in upcoming blogs. What I do know is that compared to the population at large, more well-educated individuals have much lower rates of divorce and appear to have more satisfying marriages. As I mentioned previously, in my modern day sample (2008) of over 600 well-educated women, only 6% had divorced and nearly all rated their marriages as highly satisfying.

This is not only true today—well-educated couples in generations past have also enjoyed better marriages. The parents of those in my sample are also very well-educated—65% percent of the fathers and 50% of the mothers have an advanced degree of some type (e.g. M.D., Ph.D., J.D., or Master’s level degree). In this well-educated set of parents, 80% of marriages are still intact. By their children’s estimation, the clear majority (75%) of these marriages are generally quite satisfying—fewer than 25% of their children view their parents’ marriages are either “a little dissatisfied (16.6%) or “very dissatisfied” (7.8%).

These results replicate the findings of the world's longest continuous study of physical and mental health, a study launched in 1937 that has followed 237 students at Harvard University through health, disease, and death. The lead researcher, Dr. George Vaillant, recruited only students judged by the Harvard College dean as “promising adults” with “no mental or physical health problems.” In tracking the marriages in the sample*, he measured marital satisfaction with these four specific questions:

1. Solutions to disagreements generally come: 1=easily, 2=moderately hard, 3=always difficult, 4=we go without a solution.

2. How stable do you think your marriage is? 1=quite stable, 2=some minor weaknesses, 3=moderate weaknesses, 4=major weaknesses, 5=not stable

3. Sexual adjustment is, on the whole: 1=very satisfying, 2=satisfying, 3=at times not as good as wished, 4=rather poor.

4. Separation or divorce has been considered: 1=never, 2=only casually, 3=seriously.

The scores on these items were summed to provide the global measure of marital satisfaction. The score of someone who is blissfully happy in his or her marriage and feels that the marriage is absolutely perfect would have a score of 4 (1+1+1+1). To really understand the results of the Vaillant and Vaillant study, it's helpful to translate these numbers into meaningful statements. Someone with a perfect score would essentially be saying, “We solve disagreements easily, our marriage is quite stable, our sex life is very satisfying, and we've never considered divorce, ever” (I wonder, would anyone other than a honeymooning newlywed ever score a 4?).

On the other end of the scale, the score of someone who is miserably unhappy with his or her marriage could be as high as 16 (4+5+4+3). In other words, someone with the highest score on this scale would essentially be saying, “Our disagreements go unresolved, our marriage is not stable, our sex life is disappointing, and we have seriously considered divorce.”

The average ratings of the quality of marriage for husbands and wives in this sample over the first 15 years of marriage were 5 and 6, respectively. After 31 years of marriage, the average ratings for husbands and wives were 6 and 7, respectively.

Here is an example of how we could translate these scores based on the meaning of the items. A score of 5 could hypothetically be translated as saying, “Solutions to disagreements are generally easy to come by, we have never considered divorce, our marriage is quite stable, and our sexual relationship is satisfying.” A score of 6 could hypothetically mean “Solutions to disagreements are moderately hard to come by, but our sex life is satisfying, our marriage is quite stable, and we've never considered divorce.” A score of 7 could hypothetically mean “Solutions are not always easy to come by. Sometimes, negotiating is even moderately hard, so I'd say that our marriage has some minor weaknesses, but our sex life is still satisfying and we never think of divorce.” In other words, both husbands and wives in Vaillant’s sample rated their marriages as near perfect to begin with and still near perfect after 31 years of marriage!

Isn’t it interesting that researchers have long known that well-educated people have much better marriages, yet this doesn’t often come up in discussions about the divorce rate? It seems to be a kind of “open secret.” I wonder whether some hesitate to explore this phenomenon because it doesn’t sound politically correct to point it out? Perhaps it’s more comfortable to reference the statistic that 50% of marriages end in divorce and to talk in generalities about the qualities of good marriages? Ultimately, shying away from discussing this truth serves no one well. The goal of many of my future blogs will be to analyze and describe the reasons for such different outcomes in marriage…stay posted for more!



* Vaillant, C.O., and Vaillant, G.E. (1993). “Is the U-curve of Marital Satisfaction an Illusion? A 40-year study of Marriage.” Journal of Marriage and the Family, 55, p. 236.

Post: #2

This is quite possibly the worst advice that you could give a young man.

Women that have completed higher education are more likely to be devotees of feminism as well as careerists, and we know that the odds of a happy marriage to those harpies are slim.

Moreover, girls that consider themselves dumb or uneducated will be more likely to focus on making themselves attractive to a man in other ways -- acting more feminine, staying attractive, being good in the sack, etc. Women that consider themselves educated won't waste their valuable time cooking you a meal or shopping for lingerie -- after all, their witty repartee is more than enough to keep you happy, rite? If that still hasn't persuaded you, an uneducated woman is also more likely to sign a prenup.

Well-educated couples probably stay married longer because the man has more to lose and the woman recognizes that her options are nowhere near as good as "Sex and the City" would lead her to believe.

Post: #3

(03-17-2013 07:50 PM)not_dead_yet Wrote:  This is quite possibly the worst advice that you could give a young man.

Women that have completed higher education are more likely to be devotees of feminism as well as careerists, and we know that the odds of a happy marriage to those harpies are slim.

We do? Where is your data?

Post: #4

With rare exception the most attractive women are not getting the advanced degrees. The women typically earning the advanced degrees are usually fat and or homely looking who know they need a good job down the line because they will have trouble finding a man to pay the bills. So attractive women can get by on their looks knowing they can find a man to pay their bills. Also if we can assume the advanced degreed women are not attractive it is less likely for them to stray from marriage since they would have less options in the sexual marketplace.

Post: #5

I don't think education is a good filter if you are looking for a wife since there are dangers throughout the scale. Most obnoxious, opinionated self-described feminists that I have met are not overly educated - generally a BA from a mediocre school in a soft subject. Above them you have the untouchable feminist academics, a thankfully tiny group (in the 100s?). Below them lower class skanks, with bad manners, coarse language and a loud, slutty demeanor.

I think the general rule is to avoid the lower class, which is full of dysfunctional behavior and in my experience not as feminine or malleable as working class, middle class, etc. Middle class and professional class girls also seem more likely to treat marriage as a relationship centered around having kids, which seems like a better long term basis for a relationship. A bad personality seems to be more strongly correlated with fatness and ugliness than education (despite the media telling us those fuglies have a heart of gold).

But most importantly - DON'T GET MARRIED.

Post: #6

(03-17-2013 08:32 PM)bacon Wrote:  With rare exception the most attractive women are not getting the advanced degrees. The women typically earning the advanced degrees are usually fat and or homely looking who know they need a good job down the line because they will have trouble finding a man to pay the bills. So attractive women can get by on their looks knowing they can find a man to pay their bills. Also if we can assume the advanced degreed women are not attractive it is less likely for them to stray from marriage since they would have less options in the sexual marketplace.

Work is for men and ugly women who could'nt land themselves a husband/slave.

Post: #7

Good thread.

Doesn't surprise me. The educated middle class are becoming a separate race.

Low divorce rate, fiscally stable, etc

For a marriage in 2013 you want a woman that can bring in £ and educate your kids

If you are busy with work even more need for a smart woman that cab educate them

Post: #8

Women with higher education tend to be more ambitious career wise, otherwise why pursue the degree? They will want jobs that ostensibly challenge them, and will not be able to devote as much attention to you or the home as someone who just worked a simple 9-5 or part time. Their job/career might require them (and thus you) to move to another city. This post is another attempt to categorize and segregate "good girls" from "dumb sluts." These are not exlcusive categories. There are no good girls. Every "good girl" is also a dumb slut if the right dick comes along. Incidentally, I was married to someone who had advanced degrees just like I did, but I don't think she read this study.

Post: #9

All are sluts, I just think the smart ones are more fun

Post: #10

Interesting that a few years ago there were a series of Manuals written by a high school teacher who became a writer and life coach. His name was John T. Malloy and his books were Dress for Success, Dress for Success for Women and Live for Success. Rather than being based on some Gay fashionista's fashion opinions - JT Malloy teaching high school realized that in the schools that required a dress code the students performed better than in the typical public schools where the latest kicks, wheels and being kool were more important than academic achievement.

Malloy went on to apply research principles to the adult workplace and developed tests that would prove out various human situations and the impact that your mode of attire had on them.

For example Charcoal Grey and conservative Navy Blue with subtle pin striped suits tested as more reliable than Chocolate Brown suits as the former were subconscious upper class colors and brown was working class - sort of like a package delivery man.

One classic test was the Over coat test in NYC Grand Central Station - he had men of various ethinicites were a dark Blue or Black Rain/Overcoat and then change with the exact same business suit shirt and tie and shoes to a Classic Burberry Khaki style Rain/Overcoat. Their mission was simply to approach people men and women and say pardon me I forgot my wallet at my office and I need to borrow train and taxi fare to get home - if you could assist me I would be glad to send you a check for reimbursement.

More than the majority were rejected as high as 70%+/- in the dark Rain/Overcoat and yet in the Khaki Burberry style Rain OverCoat - people were not only forking over the money - many said you know I have done the same thing - no need to pay me back - just pay it forward and would hand over several $20s and even a $50 and a $100.

Intrigued by these startling results Malloy did a deep dive and discovered that it came down to an image of class level - dark Rain coats were associated with lower working class clerks - enlisted men if you will and Khaki were associated with Upper Class - the Officer Corps which ironically is where the original Burberry Khaki Rain-Over-"Trench" Coat originated from in World War I and to this day is still subconsciously associated with Upper Class and Officer Corps members.

Molly in live for success went on to survey wealthy self made men in the professionals and in business especially self made business owners who were worth well over $1 Million dollars at the time - and he was surprised to find that a statistically valid majority wound up taking a certain professional class of women as wives.

What were this class of wives - none other than Teachers - yeah I know the source of some of our leading feministas today - but none the less teachers were dedicated towards kids in general and theirs in particular - inculcated a love of learning and work ethic into their kids that would insure their kids would eventually be college educated and able to take over their legacy businesses and that the teachers were able to be home when the kids were home and be available for interesting family vacations during the year and travel during the summer - often to places conducive for both cultural and business networking reasons.

The logic remains valid to this day - just need to know how to screen out the radical feminists from the NEA bunch.

Post: #11

(03-19-2013 01:54 PM)Deepdiver Wrote:  Interesting that a few years ago there were a series of Manuals written by a high school teacher who became a writer and life coach. His name was John T. Malloy and his books were Dress for Success, Dress for Success for Women and Live for Success.

Why Men Marry Some Women and Not Others: The Fascinating Research That Can Land You the Husband of Your Dreams [Mass Market Paperback]

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Marry-Some-Wom...467&sr=1-3

Amazon Reviews are Hamster Gold Mine

308 of 345 people found the following review helpful
1.0 out of 5 stars Don't bother if you are a woman over 35 June 30, 2004
By Patricia E. Powers
Format:Hardcover
I bought this book because I thought that I would learn some special insight into why I was still a single woman over 40. I don't recommend this book if you are older. The author states the obvious: 1) Men want younger women 2) If you are an over 40 woman, who is single, you better be attractive and thin more so than your younger counterparts. 3) You should marry unattractive men who get passed over by other women. 4) You should join an athelic group of some sort, go out on Singles outings etc..etc... Nothing new here to me. I have done all of the things the author suggests and I am still single going on four years. I am thin- if I get any thinner my doctor will get ticked, attractive, take care of myself and participate in many sporting activities.
Anyhow-there is no special formula here, maybe I should write a book and tell women the following:
1) Date divorced men - they are easier to get along with -
2) Stay away from players and guys who have NEVER settled down or who have a history of breaking women's hearts.
3) Love yourself enough to take care of yourself on the inside and out.

No brainers here ladies...I am done reading these dating books. Finding the love of your life is either meant to be ie, luck or it is not.

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Marry-Some-Wom...ewpoints=0

Post: #12

http://www.businessinsider.com/grant-stu...ppy-2013-4

BI article on the Grant Study.

Guys with warm relationships with their mom make $87,000 a year more than those with uncaring mothers.

Post: #13

(03-17-2013 08:11 PM)j r Wrote:  

(03-17-2013 07:50 PM)not_dead_yet Wrote:  This is quite possibly the worst advice that you could give a young man.

Women that have completed higher education are more likely to be devotees of feminism as well as careerists, and we know that the odds of a happy marriage to those harpies are slim.

We do? Where is your data?

exactly. when i look around at all the power couples i live near, they are all fucking married. I was the outcast because I got divorced. all the women are lawyers, doctors, architects, whatever, and their husbands lobbyists, contractors, and more.

and they are all married.

its the lower class that i see at my job that are divorced and single parents

Post: #14

Don't wife any sluts.

Post: #15

The OPs stats are flawed. You have to look at cultural/ethnic variances. I can bet my last dollar Asian-America s dominate the educated high end working class in those statistics and culturally the are complete opposites of typical marriages in America. Education is a mouse trap because the schools are full indoctrinated womyns whom have no perception on how to make a traditional family work. If you want a good bride go find a hot modest women from Kentucky that just wants to raise your kids, or go abroad. Slim pickings here at home, don't let the loaded data fool you.

Post: #16

(03-19-2013 03:07 PM)calihunter Wrote:  Why Men Marry Some Women and Not Others: The Fascinating Research That Can Land You the Husband of Your Dreams [Mass Market Paperback]

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Marry-Some-Wom...467&sr=1-3

Amazon Reviews are Hamster Gold Mine

Here's one...

Quote:Catering to the Man?, July 28, 2006
By Melanie Simms "Melanie Simms" (Liverpool, Pennsylvania)

I found this book a bit old-fashioned. I just turned 40, was married once, and have been in the dating scene for 5 yrs now-- still single with no long-term (more than a year) dating companion. However I'm discouraged that if one of the only ways a single over 40 woman has a chance of finding a mate is being THIN, then I probably dont want to get married ANYWAY. (I'm still attractive, but on the plumper side- 5'10, 219) I want to find a book, instead that focuses on how to help "older" women find love by loving themselves and focusing on their INNER beauty. Look at all those gorgeous BBW's and BBW dating sites out there. The movement is growing because so many more Americans are having problems. There are men who will love you for who you are-- if not, then someone needs to work on re-socializing them in the early stages to assure better partnerships for everyone in the future. Sorry, but after 40, we women start to fade a bit...its GREAT to stay as healthy as possible, but this book is unrealstic.

Post: #17

Quote:I'm still attractive, but on the plumper side- 5'10, 219

Post: #18

Some interesting and/or funny points from the book:

The Six Basic Guidelines For Women To Get Married

1. Insist on it.
2. If you find yourself in a dead-end relationship, move on.
3. Love yourself first.
4. Commit yourself to the idea of getting married
5. Keep in shape, watch your weight, and take care of your appearance
6. Time is running out—use time wisely in your search for the marrying man

To maximize your chances of marrying, only date the marrying kind:

1. Avoid stringers, men who string along women but never commit. To filter them out, insist that he commit after six months. Then stick to it, no matter what excuses he gives.
2. Consider unpolished jewels, men who are just as nice, intelligent, hard-working, and successful, but lack looks, height, or social skills.
3. Avoid men who see marriage as a financial arrangement in which women have the most to gain.

First impressions are important

1. Men are attracted by the physical, but marry character.
2. Dressing appropriately sends the message, “I am wife material.” Men marry women they perceive as “situational virgins” who move easily in their world.
3. If you want to marry a man who is more attractive than you, go for a very good-looking man because he will actually place less emphasis on looks. Women see their own looks as a gift of nature equal to or superior to brains and talent. In contrast, 67% of very good-looking men think of their looks as a minor asset, and say they would rather be smart, rich, or talented.

What kind of women get married?

1. Women with unrealistic expectations often remain single.
2. Self-confident men are attracted to accomplished, self-assured, and talented women.
3. Being slender attracts more men, therefore increasing your chances to marry
4. Women who put effort into looking their best are more likely to marry than those who don’t
5. However, men find women who are active and don’t spend all of their time primping more attractive
6. Women who have active social lives are more likely to marry.

Proposal Stage

Most men propose after going out with a woman for 18 months. If at the end of 22 months, a man has not proposed, the chances that he will start to diminish. For 3.5 years, the chances diminish gradually. After that, it plunges. After 7 years, your chances are virtually zero.

Speaking of Marriage

1. Men who discuss marriage are more likely to propose
2. If you want to discuss marriage, you’re going to have to bring the subject up, because many men never will
3. 73% of marrying women said that they put pressure on their man to propose
4. If a woman is convinced that marriage is essential to her happiness, she is more likely to marry.
5. Men don’t get subtle hints—a woman has to discuss marriage directly and, to make sure he gets the point, ask follow-up questions.
6.. Men rarely respond positively when challenged. Over 50% of men say that when presented with a choice, “Marry me or get lost,” they chose to get lost.
Over 50% of men say that when a woman walks out, they let her go.
Instead, come back to the subject later. Send the message, “I love you, but I need marriage.” Don’t let them off the hook. “How could you do this to me? You hurt me.” “The reason I’m so hurt is that I love you.”