Post: #1

Okay so this probably sounds like a total newbie question, and I know a lot of it is relative to the girl, situation, etc., but do you guys normally go for sex on the first date if everything is going well, (i.e. physical attraction, kino, kissing, etc.)? I am kind of kicking myself for not "striking when the iron was hot", and now I feel like what was once a great "prospect" is slowly slipping into nothing.

I had a date with a girl that is "best friends" with another girl that I messed around with, I had no idea that she was attracted to me, but I heard from the grapevine that she was "sweating my nuts" and I manned up got her number from her friend. I hit her up and we had a great first date out at a nice tequila lounge, good flirtatious convo, strong kino, lot's of making out. Well to make a long story short we had a long heated make out session, when I was dropping her off at her place, but for some reason I had my head up my ass and didn't ask if I could come up to "check out her place." She was definitely into me, and I think I could have smashed it that night in retrospect, but at the time I thought that the "cat was in the bag", and that by trying to hit it that night, she might think "all I care about is sex", blah, blah and that it might be better to play it cool and wait for a second date.

The second date I took her out for a nice dinner, I thought everything was going real well, from what I heard she was still "high" on me from the first date. Perhaps I should have suggested that we go straight to my place after dinner, but I took her to a close by bar, where we had a drink, and once again good kino and making out. At some point after we finished our drinks she started to look at her phone and said that she needed to get going, she drove me to my car and we had another long heated make out session with neck/ear kissing/sucking/licking, ass/breast feeling, etc. This time I proposed we go to my place, but in retrospect I was probably too passive and not alpha enough, she seemed like she wanted to, but insisted that she had to get up early to go to summer school (which is partially true, but 10 am is not that "early"). I thought if I kept pushing, I'd come off as too needy/desperate, but maybe I should have tried to push through her resistance.

Since then I have seen her one time, and that was a few days later at the bar in a mixed set of friends, she was totally ignoring me, giving me the cold shoulder, basically making me work for her attention. She was with the friend that I prev. messed around with and got her number from, this "friend" girl was being a total "mother hen", dictating the coversation, being a total bitch to me, constantly trying to shut me out, etc. I should have just said fuck it and gone to holler at other honeys, but continued trying to "work game on my girl". I wasn't stoked on how the night went, and waited about 5 days to text the girl again, and this time she waited all day to get back to me and basically said that "tonight won't work, but maybe this weekend."

So basically, not to totally bitch and rant to you guys, but I'm totally confused on how things went from hot to cold so quickly, I guess such is the nature of women. I have been trying to go through my mind and try and remember if I fumbled and said or did something wrong, but aside from not escalating more sexually, I thought everything went really well. I was reading on "The Rookie's" blog, that Roosh told him that the 3 date principal for getting the lay, has now moved to 2 dates. I think if I had banged her that first night, I'd be in a completely different situation, but I'm still having a hard time figuring out what women actually want.

If everything is flowing well, do you guys always push for sex on the first date, or wait? My train of thought was she'd be even more hot for me after the first date, which would have made the second date a guaruntee, but apparently not. I'm pissed at myself, because this girl is a super cute 8 out of 10, and in this town pickings are slim. Final thought, Roosh is so on point with his "9 immutable law of pick-up", I was totally over-valuing this girl and asking a bunch of questions and advice from friends about her, even though she didn't know that, in the end "the game matrix" got the best of me. Now I am trying to figure out if I should keep trying with her, I wish things were more simple or "real" and I could just ask her where she is at and how she feels, but I know enough that, that would be a totally weesh move. At this point I guess I'm just going to try and forget about her, and if she hits me up to chill, try to make one last attempt to get the notch, and if it doesn't work then fuck it.

Post: #2

I didn't read the whole thing yet, but to answer the question, YES.

EDIT: Read the whole thing now... yeah, you definitely should've went up to her place after the first date. You probably didn't even have to say anything silly like "let me come up and check out your place" should have just got up out of the car and went with her.

Next time you're with her, try hard to get that notch. It's better to be too aggressive than too passive, and you're being too passive.

Post: #3

Yea dude, just get it out of the way right away. I have been in situations where a girl would be all over me on the first date then on the second date she would invite her friends and etc.

If she says no then that's what date two and three are for.

Post: #4

Thanks for the feedback guys, yeah I am seeing how I messed up what was likely a sure thing on my first date, live and learn I suppose, it just sucks that girls are so damn fickle! I'm trying to get over my beta ways, this time I just had my head up my ass, but still have a lot of lessons to learn with the womens, at least I am not being such a pussy like I used to, when I would often get so nervous with such bad anxiety and would end up not even initiating kino or kissing. BTW, Willy Wonka, I check out your blog from time to time, good shit bro.

Post: #5

For sure, go for the bang ASAP. I find it to be too easy with American girls since being back in the states. I basically feel like if I make out with a girl I'm going to fuck her either that night or the next time we hang out, and it usually happens. It's so much easier than South America. Once the bang is out of the way it makes things easier and much more chill. In the situation where the girl was blowing you off, I feel she was just trying to make you jelous, in that situation you have to take over and make sure you aren't getting blown off. Be lively and engage the conversation.

Post: #6

(06-04-2010 08:10 PM)Willy Wonka Wrote:  I didn't read the whole thing yet, but to answer the question, YES.

EDIT: Read the whole thing now... yeah, you definitely should've went up to her place after the first date. You probably didn't even have to say anything silly like "let me come up and check out your place" should have just got up out of the car and went with her.

Next time you're with her, try hard to get that notch. It's better to be too aggressive than too passive, and you're being too passive.

haha I used to ask where I should park my car, or here is a good safe spot for me to park right? they wont tow it... etc.... girls know the deal. Many ways to skin the kitty.

Also there could be a million scenarios going on, she doesnt want her friend to know how much she likes you so she is acting aloof, blah blah blah dont let it get into your head or you will MAKE it weird the next time you go out. Treat like you did the first two times, its obviously worked.

Post: #7

You gotta "read the situation". What does she want to do? Does she try try invite herself into your place or does she try to end the date. If they wanna bang, they will usually drop hints like...

"do you have a nice view from your balcony"
"wanna hang out or something"
"i got that weed/food that you like"

Usually, there will be solid eye contact and some touching.

Sometimes they pretend that they don't wanna come in or they need a little extra encouragement. Even if she says "no" the first time, escalate the touching a little/run your fingers through her hair, and suggest it again. (unless she is obviously trying to get going)

When they drop hints, they EXPECT YOU TO NOTICE and make a move, but its gotta be smooth, don't be too obvious. Don't mention anything sexual. Word it differently, They know what your talking about.

"i got that movie/cd/dvd that you wanted to borrow"
"you're welcome to come up have a smoke/drink/water"
"i gotta make some sauce for tommorrow if u wanna help"

If she says things like...

"i'm tired, i gotta work early tommorrow", etc. Then you know you're probably not getting laid.

Post: #8

if it is LTR material i prob wouldnt do it on the first night.

if not hell yea.

Post: #9

OGNorCal707,

I'm wondering what's happened with this girl?

Maybe you made a few mistakes, but the way I read this, she was an easy save.

Did you work it out?

Aloha!

Post: #10

No one gives a shit about your problems, faggot.

Post: #11

(06-08-2010 04:33 PM)toddn Wrote:  No one gives a shit about your problems, faggot.

I admit, I might have to steal this line.

Post: #12

I always drop hints like mentioned above, most of the time they dont go for it right away, but if nothing else it gives a second date hook ready and waiting.

Those who dont try dont get laid, unless you are crazy hot.

Post: #13

If I like her, than hell no.

I don't even want to know if thats an option on the first date, because it will exclude her from being a serious relationship option for me from then on.

If I don't see her as a relationship possibility, then hell yes.

(06-04-2010 03:22 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  At some point after we finished our drinks she started to look at her phone and said that she needed to get going, she drove me to my car and we had another long heated make out session with neck/ear kissing/sucking/licking, ass/breast feeling, etc. This time I proposed we go to my place, but in retrospect I was probably too passive and not alpha enough, she seemed like she wanted to, but insisted that she had to get up early to go to summer school (which is partially true, but 10 am is not that "early"). I thought if I kept pushing, I'd come off as too needy/desperate, but maybe I should have tried to push through her resistance.

Since then I have seen her one time, and that was a few days later at the bar in a mixed set of friends, she was totally ignoring me, giving me the cold shoulder, basically making me work for her attention. She was with the friend that I prev. messed around with and got her number from, this "friend" girl was being a total "mother hen", dictating the coversation, being a total bitch to me, constantly trying to shut me out, etc. I should have just said fuck it and gone to holler at other honeys, but continued trying to "work game on my girl". I wasn't stoked on how the night went, and waited about 5 days to text the girl again, and this time she waited all day to get back to me and basically said that "tonight won't work, but maybe this weekend."

"The Rookie's" blog, that Roosh told him that the 3 date principal for getting the lay, has now moved to 2 dates. I think if I had banged her that first night, I'd be in a completely different situation, but I'm still having a hard time figuring out what women actually want.

But you also have to feel her out. If she just wants to ball, you have to key in on that and make it happen. A "relationship track" mindset can and will hurt you if this is the case, and you would be right about not being alpha enough. For instance, if your making out with her in the car, and she already made a comment about "getting going" you have one of two options, imo. First, you can cut off the makeout session, say you have to go, and go. This is non-needy, and may keep her wondering about you. Two: you can tell her to come up with you to your place. If she's in fuck me mode, she usually doesn't want to be asked. Of course, she will reject you if you read her desire wrong, but you will less likely get rejected if she wants to because she doesn't feel like she has the "act like a respectable lady" choice to reject you. Your telling her to come somewhere with you, and if she has any desire, its now easier to follow your lead than to go against the flow.

Like I've said previously in other posts, , guys have to get out of the habit of asking girls questions and giving them choice. Its a huge mistake, imo, with game and your interpersonal dynamic with them in general. Tell them what your doing, where your going, etc... Dont do it in an obnoxious way, because thats not the point. If you do it obnoxiously, you will get more resistance. Do it in a matter of fact, nice, but firm-ish way..This way she feels weird if she rejects your command, and is more likely for her to second guess herself if she has any feelings about going against your directive. They want to follow..its natural. If she gives you a hard tme about what you tell her, then talk about it and ask her what she wants. Simple. If not, just lead... but remember, be cool no matter what. Your not leading in a dickish way, but in a way that just assumes that your the leader and the decision maker.

This was your biggest mistake, imo, other than possibly misreading her. Without knowing the situation in-person, its tough to definitely say why she went cold on you. But you obviously did something wrong in her mind. If she's conservative/relationship minded you moved to fast. If she's "fuck me" minded, you weren't alpha enough (possibly - although its tough to know).

Post: #14

(06-08-2010 10:30 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  But you also have to feel her out. If she just wants to ball, you have to key in on that and make it happen. A "relationship track" mindset can and will hurt you if this is the case, and you would be right about not being alpha enough. For instance, if your making out with her in the car, and she already made a comment about "getting going" you have one of two options, imo. First, you can cut off the makeout session, say you have to go, and go. This is non-needy, and may keep her wondering about you. Two: you can tell her to come up with you to your place. If she's in fuck me mode, she usually doesn't want to be asked. Of course, she will reject you if you read her desire wrong, but you will less likely get rejected if she wants to because she doesn't feel like she has the "act like a respectable lady" choice to reject you. Your telling her to come somewhere with you, and if she has any desire, its now easier to follow your lead than to go against the flow.

Like I've said previously in other posts, , guys have to get out of the habit of asking girls questions and giving them choice. Its a huge mistake, imo, with game and your interpersonal dynamic with them in general. Tell them what your doing, where your going, etc... Dont do it in an obnoxious way, because thats not the point. If you do it obnoxiously, you will get more resistance. Do it in a matter of fact, nice, but firm way..This way she feels weird if she rejects your command, and is more likely for her to second guess herself if she has any feelings about going against your directive. They want to follow..its natural. If she gives you a hard tme about what you tell her, then talk about it and ask her what she wants. If not, just lead...

This is deep. This is Social Psychology and a knowledge of Persuasion. Thats really all Game is. Getting people to do what you want them to do. These tactics are specifically designed to get women to follow a "leader". I think they are "hard wired" to follow a strong man. Use Nature/Science/Evolution to your advantage.

Post: #15

Don't go hard on yourself, bro... I have also made many mistakes like that when I was young, as we have all.
Many times I've had girls that I "almost" banged, even girls that slept in my bed and I didn't bang them. Now I know better, but if you are a young'un such things happen.

The important thing is to learn your lesson - always go for the close. As in sales, always be closing. You have to try. Even if you are of the opinion that girls who put out on the first night are not suitable for LTR, at least you'll know. And if you don't bang her, some other dude will.

As others mentioned, sounds like this may be salvageable... do share.

Post: #16

(06-08-2010 10:30 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  Like I've said previously in other posts, , guys have to get out of the habit of asking girls questions and giving them choice. Its a huge mistake, imo, with game and your interpersonal dynamic with them in general. Tell them what your doing, where your going, etc... Dont do it in an obnoxious way, because thats not the point. If you do it obnoxiously, you will get more resistance. Do it in a matter of fact, nice, but firm-ish way..This way she feels weird if she rejects your command, and is more likely for her to second guess herself if she has any feelings about going against your directive. They want to follow..its natural. If she gives you a hard tme about what you tell her, then talk about it and ask her what she wants. Simple. If not, just lead... but remember, be cool no matter what. Your not leading in a dickish way, but in a way that just assumes that your the leader and the decision maker.

That's good advice right there. I need to do a better job at that. How do you do this when setting up dates and shit... just hit her up, call or text and be like, "Let's do this and this Thursday and such and such time." As opposed to "Do you wanna... ?" Also... how bout saying "We should..." as in "we should go do this on Friday, etc, etc."??

Post: #17

K-man Wrote:The important thing is to learn your lesson - always go for the close. As in sales, always be closing. You have to try. Even if you are of the opinion that girls who put out on the first night are not suitable for LTR, at least you'll know. And if you don't bang her, some other dude will.

Really dude? You think you should always go for the bang on the first date? How many successful LTR's have you seen come out of a same-night-lay or a first-date-bang?

Post: #18

(06-26-2010 08:47 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Really dude? You think you should always go for the bang on the first date? How many successful LTR's have you seen come out of a same-night-lay or a first-date-bang?

Well, some of us already have a successful LTR, and we do not need another one. Therefore it doesn't make sense to waste time on dating.

Post: #19

(06-26-2010 08:47 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Really dude? You think you should always go for the bang on the first date? How many successful LTR's have you seen come out of a same-night-lay or a first-date-bang?

The burden of proving that she is LTR material is on her - your job is to go for the lay, and she can refuse if she wants to be a good girl. That doesn't stop you from going on several more dates with her afterwards, if you feel like waiting.

Post: #20

(06-08-2010 10:30 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  If I like her, than hell no.

I don't even want to know if thats an option on the first date, because it will exclude her from being a serious relationship option for me from then on.

If I don't see her as a relationship possibility, then hell yes.

Why would one's attitude or mode of operation be different if you're interested in a girl for a relationship versus just a random fuck? It's that exact way of thinking that makes the ones you really like slip away. When you view a girl as relationship material, you think and act differently (i.e., you care more), and thus revert back to your AFC tendencies. If anything, the girl you really want is the one you should treat the worst - not in a mean way, but just not giving her any sort of special attention/treatment whatsoever. I know because I've fallen into this trap many times before. Not anymore. Definitely still go for the lay, regardless of how you feel about her.

A friend of mine was in a relationship for over 3 years with a girl he banged on the first night. While they're no longer together, rest assured it didn't end because they fucked on the first night.

Post: #21

100% in agreement with K-man.

You're not going to close a lot of quality girls if you pass on sex when they were ready to give it.

Samseau: how many "successful LTRs" have you had by taking it slow?

Post: #22

(06-29-2010 12:43 AM)Roosh Wrote:  Samseau: how many "successful LTRs" have you had by taking it slow?

Never had a successful LTR from taking it fast; one (3 months) from taking it slow (she was a little prissy virgin whore). I waste through girls like chips and crackers.

But of the most successful LTRs I have observed, all came from two people taking it rather slowly.

Post: #23

Go for the bang. Girls have rejected me for many reasons, but never for being aggressive, despite several girls telling me I'm the most aggressive guy they've been with. If she wants you, she won't lose it because you start clawing her.

(06-08-2010 10:30 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  If I like her, than hell no.

I don't even want to know if thats an option on the first date, because it will exclude her from being a serious relationship option for me from then on.

If I don't see her as a relationship possibility, then hell yes.

I see this mentality a lot, among guys and girls. It's extremely flawed. What a girl does on one night with you does not make or break her value as a girlfriend. A whore that fucks you on the eighth date is still a whore.

Quote:Really dude? You think you should always go for the bang on the first date? How many successful LTR's have you seen come out of a same-night-lay or a first-date-bang?

My most serious relationship was with a girl I banged on the first date, though I was her third or fourth lay. But, you have to make her feel like she made the right choice fucking you, and didn't make a huge whore of herself. I fucked another girl on a first date who I liked, and definitely wanted to see again, but she never talked to me again. Get them to sleep over, talk to them immediately after the sex, etc. If you want to date them, sex early is fine, but continue to go on dates with them, instead of having them meet you in your bedroom every time (ah, college, farewell).

Girls have this idea that one night stands aren't so bad, but putting out on the first date is the sluttiest thing a girl can do, so she may feel extremely vulnerable after banging you.

Post: #24

(07-10-2010 08:03 PM)basilransom Wrote:  Go for the bang. Girls have rejected me for many reasons, but never for being aggressive, despite several girls telling me I'm the most aggressive guy they've been with. If she wants you, she won't lose it because you start clawing her.

(06-08-2010 10:30 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  If I like her, than hell no.

I don't even want to know if thats an option on the first date, because it will exclude her from being a serious relationship option for me from then on.

If I don't see her as a relationship possibility, then hell yes.

I see this mentality a lot, among guys and girls. It's extremely flawed. What a girl does on one night with you does not make or break her value as a girlfriend. A whore that fucks you on the eighth date is still a whore.

Quote:Really dude? You think you should always go for the bang on the first date? How many successful LTR's have you seen come out of a same-night-lay or a first-date-bang?

My most serious relationship was with a girl I banged on the first date, though I was her third or fourth lay. But, you have to make her feel like she made the right choice fucking you, and didn't make a huge whore of herself. I fucked another girl on a first date who I liked, and definitely wanted to see again, but she never talked to me again. Get them to sleep over, talk to them immediately after the sex, etc. If you want to date them, sex early is fine, but continue to go on dates with them, instead of having them meet you in your bedroom every time (ah, college, farewell).

Girls have this idea that one night stands aren't so bad, but putting out on the first date is the sluttiest thing a girl can do, so she may feel extremely vulnerable after banging you.

OP,the universal rule is if you don't ask you don't get. Despite the Samantha of SATC role-playing women internalise from TV,you're still expected to step up to the plate and ask for the pussy-of course not in so many words. First night,second night or third night it doesn't matter,but since pussy is really nice and I hate to waste time I personally ask on the first night.

Post: #25

Yes....all she can say is "no".