Post: #26

Also, to the people saying to be a PA, fuck that ha. You got to be an obedient little bitch for that. Yea, you gotta put in a lot more hours, schooling, etc. to be a doctor but if you have passion for that shit then it's worth it. I was with a doctor the other day and he treated his PA like a sack of shit and the PA just had to stand there and take it. PA school still means you have to make around a 3.5... and to put in all of that work to fucking unchange patients and do the bullshit work?

Pass.

I'd rather work in emergency/internal medicine and put in a set number of shifts per month and still have some free time off. Might not be sustainable for older heads, but it works for me.

Post: #27

You're asking the wrong people. Ask some doctors what they think.

Post: #28

(03-10-2013 11:07 AM)bacon Wrote:  i have to cosign for what capitan ahab wrote above. why wait 8 years plus to start making a good paycheck and even then you still owe hundred of thousands when a much quicker and easier path would be to nurse practitioner. only 2 years of school, much much less debt and a solid income with great job security all while avoiding the paper work and liabilities which ruin many doctors lives today.

ultimately i would make my decision to become a doctor on future lifestyle economics. so if you anticipate big expenses in your future like a trophy wife, giant house in the suburbs and several kids in private school then becoming a doctor is the path you should go. if you dont require that and would prefer to live as a single guy or if you have wife and kids down the line and reprive them of private schools, big house and your wife being unemployed and pampered then a nurse salary should be fine.

PAs and Nurse Practitioners have less of a burden yes but they are also restricted on what they can do. Since they go to school for 2 years they get a very very basic education. For example, they know what antibiotic treats pneumonia but don't get the detailed biochemistry and physiology of why it works. Not to blame them- 2 years isn't long enough to teach everything.

You'll have almost no social life in med school. The prestige is still there but like others have mentioned the money has gone down from before. If money and prestige is all your looking for then its probably not worth the sacrifice.

Post: #29

^I'm in med school now and I feel less pressured than I did in undergrad. I also still go out 2-3x a week. I'm not in the clinical years yet... but some weeks I feel less busier than I did in my undergrad.

Residency is brutal for sure though. No denying that.

Post: #30

I hear hospitalists have 12 hour shifts with 7 days on and 7 days off. Pretty cool.

Post: #31

(03-10-2013 11:31 AM)sheesh Wrote:  Medical school is worth it if you are interested in medicine.

If you want to become an MD for the status, money and women...no. I just know too many MDs in my circle and family who have neither of the aforementioned.

Im deffinitely passionate about medicine. I love studying about human physiology and just science in general. Right now I'm taking a few evolutionary bio and biochem courses and I find them fascinating. I also have always enjoyed/done well in math. I feel as though my options are open Im just leaning towards medicine because I can have a pretty good lifestyle doing something that genuinely intrigues me.

Post: #32

(03-10-2013 06:58 PM)the chef Wrote:  Lol you sound like a typical "grinder"... Aka the undergrad premeds who pull all nighters and have crazy amounts of stress. I was like that too my freshman year.

Not trying to be a dick, but I'm at a top 20 med school now, and graduated from a top undergrad school with a degree in biochem and a minor in public health, but you have to handle your shit and not be a little bitch.

My undergrad semesters I took 15 hours a semester, researched 10 hours a week, and was part of 4 honor societies... Weekend mornings were spent volunteering or working on other side hustles. Now, I didn't get laid every week, but I got laid a whole lot more than the traditional premeds/engineers/CS majors.

It starts 100% with time management during the weekdays. I would take morning classes and work through the time blocks where I wasnt in class, take an hour off four lunch. Study and do homework for another 2-3 hours in the afternoon, go into research lab for a couple more hours, and then spend another hour going over all of my notes/problem sets that I did for the entire day. I also pretty much did schoolwork for about 5 hours on Sunday so my busy days were easier to handle. By the time 7-8pm came around I was completely done with school work; my nights were spent lifting, jogging, playing pickup ball at the rec, smokin pot/hookah'ing... You get the point. And by the time Thursday/Friday/Saturday night came around, I partied just as hard... If not harder than anyone else. Got just as much pussy as some of the kids in easy as shit majors and had a blast.

Apart from time management the other thing that I would emphasize would be focus. When you're working throughout the day, turn off your phone. Stay away from facebook and twitter during the day. Find the most isolated spot on campus and study there. To absolutely kill it in the science classes you need to put deep fucking focus to gain that intuition. 2 hours of intense, deep focus beats 6 hours of bullshit "studying," and if you do this day in and day out with the combination of focusing in class you should be able to easily be in that 3.7~ish sweet spot with a good amount of free time to do whatever the fuck you want at night. If you do all of this I'm sure you could limit the amount of all nighters and painful ass marathon studying sessions that pre-meds think are necessary to succeed.

It's undergrad man... When in life are you going to have the chance to walk up behind some sluts on a frat party dance floor and start caveman grinding on her? Have fun man. Do shit that you wouldn't normally do. Study abroad a semester, dress like a fucking champ, attend guest lectures, get out there and meet people. Being a premed shouldn't limit you whatsoever... Focus on being a well rounded, interesting person... It'll pay off once med school interviews come around.

I agree time management and focus are both very crucial. Those are both the biggest difficulties Ive had in the past. In terms of being a "grinder" thats not totally true. First two years and all throughout high school I was a lazy fuck. I didn't study at all in high school and I only studied the night before every exam in first two years of university. I was pretty much in a paralysis where I would just sit and feel like shit and was always depressed. I felt like a failure and I wanted to study but I just couldn't and the worst part was that I didn't take the initiative to improve myself. Now I'm much more mature and I have a better understanding of all the things that have been preventing me from studying in the past and I'm definitely trying to become an overall stronger person. I've been killing it in my last two semesters and I brought my GPA up quite a bit and Im slowly just trying to improve all of the other aspects of my life too. It just gets crazy from time to time when I look far into the future and the amount of work its gonna take to achieve my goals but I guess I just gotta adapt and learn because life will just continue to get more and more difficult.

Post: #33

(03-10-2013 09:04 PM)Jazzman92 Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 11:31 AM)sheesh Wrote:  Medical school is worth it if you are interested in medicine.

If you want to become an MD for the status, money and women...no. I just know too many MDs in my circle and family who have neither of the aforementioned.

Im deffinitely passionate about medicine. I love studying about human physiology and just science in general. Right now I'm taking a few evolutionary bio and biochem courses and I find them fascinating. I also have always enjoyed/done well in math. I feel as though my options are open Im just leaning towards medicine because I can have a pretty good lifestyle doing something that genuinely intrigues me.

Medicine is all very nice when it's locked up in a textbook, but it feels different when you are covered in blood and shit and you have to delay going home after 32 hours of no sleep because your patient has just complicated.

Also, how comfortable are you in taking split second decisions that will determine whether someone will live and die? And how comfortable will you be knowing that every now and then you made the wrong decision, and that you messed someone up good? (and don't be so foolish as to believe you will not ever make such a mistake - you will be a doctor not a machine, and even machines sometimes mess up) And how comfortable will you be, in today's economic climate, at being sued by chancers who are trying to suck you dry of your money when you did everything by the book? (a number of cases brought against doctors are cases where the doctor did nothing wrong, but people sue anyway in the hopes of some $$$) And how comfortable will you be later on in your career when you realise that what those ivory tower profs in med school didn't tell you is that half the shit you learn in medical school is wrong anyway? (luckily, due to the information overload of medical school, you forget a lot anyway, so the damage that medical school does to your medical skillz is self-limiting. But the guys who do really well in medical school often turn out to be awful doctors, because they actually believe half the nonsense they were taught). How comfortable will you be when you are about to go on vacation but a patient calls you with an emergency and you have to go to hospital on your vacation day because legally and ethically you are bound to not 'abandon' your patient? How comfortable are you with the fact that medicine will metastasize to every aspect of your life and very much become your lifestyle even when you're not in the office?

Being a doctor is not about the knowledge in the textbook, it's about being brave enough to get experience and skillz and learn the craft of medicine, to master it as an art. It's scientifically informed, yes, but it remains an art/craft. There will never be an end to learning and finetuning of your skillz, it is a lifetime's endeavour of achieving expertise, and at its height it is an aesthetic experience, and at its lows it just too awful too describe.

I think the best book to read before going into medical school is MASH (http://www.amazon.com/Mash-Novel-About-T...0688149553) It perfectly depicts the tension between medicine as a craft and medicine as it is taught, and how much of medicine is about ignoring the ivory tower bullshit you are taught in school.

But yeah, it's not worth it. Don't go to medical school. It's a meat grinder with costs that far outweigh any rewards. At the very least, have someone else pay for your studies and don't go into debt for a lifestyle that is ultimately very punishing.

And don't talk about being 'passionate' for medicine until you're covered in shit and blood and have been on your feet for 32 hours straight and have been so busy that you forgot to eat and you almost die on the way home because you fell asleep behind the wheel.

Post: #34

(03-10-2013 12:46 PM)Pete Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 12:36 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 12:10 PM)Pete Wrote:  -Status: I have a friend who just graduated. He's chubby (though he's lost about 30 pounds and is not that chubby now), he's about 5'2''. But he's a doctor now. As soon as he says that, women start getting interested in him. I've seen it.

You are trolling. Pics or it didn't happen.

Why would I troll? I come here and post regularly.

I'm not saying he says he's a doctor and women drop their panties. But I've noticed soon as he says he is one, they get more interested in him.

I'm not going to post pictures of my friends here.

I found a photo of your friend with a representative specimen of the kind of women who find doctors interesting:

Post: #35

(03-11-2013 01:15 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 09:04 PM)Jazzman92 Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 11:31 AM)sheesh Wrote:  Medical school is worth it if you are interested in medicine.

If you want to become an MD for the status, money and women...no. I just know too many MDs in my circle and family who have neither of the aforementioned.

Im deffinitely passionate about medicine. I love studying about human physiology and just science in general. Right now I'm taking a few evolutionary bio and biochem courses and I find them fascinating. I also have always enjoyed/done well in math. I feel as though my options are open Im just leaning towards medicine because I can have a pretty good lifestyle doing something that genuinely intrigues me.

Medicine is all very nice when it's locked up in a textbook, but it feels different when you are covered in blood and shit and you have to delay going home after 32 hours of no sleep because your patient has just complicated.

Also, how comfortable are you in taking split second decisions that will determine whether someone will live and die? And how comfortable will you be knowing that every now and then you made the wrong decision, and that you messed someone up good? (and don't be so foolish as to believe you will not ever make such a mistake - you will be a doctor not a machine, and even machines sometimes mess up) And how comfortable will you be, in today's economic climate, at being sued by chancers who are trying to suck you dry of your money when you did everything by the book? (a number of cases brought against doctors are cases where the doctor did nothing wrong, but people sue anyway in the hopes of some $$$) And how comfortable will you be later on in your career when you realise that what those ivory tower profs in med school didn't tell you is that half the shit you learn in medical school is wrong anyway? (luckily, due to the information overload of medical school, you forget a lot anyway, so the damage that medical school does to your medical skillz is self-limiting. But the guys who do really well in medical school often turn out to be awful doctors, because they actually believe half the nonsense they were taught). How comfortable will you be when you are about to go on vacation but a patient calls you with an emergency and you have to go to hospital on your vacation day because legally and ethically you are bound to not 'abandon' your patient? How comfortable are you with the fact that medicine will metastasize to every aspect of your life and very much become your lifestyle even when you're not in the office?

Being a doctor is not about the knowledge in the textbook, it's about being brave enough to get experience and skillz and learn the craft of medicine, to master it as an art. It's scientifically informed, yes, but it remains an art/craft. There will never be an end to learning and finetuning of your skillz, it is a lifetime's endeavour of achieving expertise, and at its height it is an aesthetic experience, and at its lows it just too awful too describe.

I think the best book to read before going into medical school is MASH (http://www.amazon.com/Mash-Novel-About-T...0688149553) It perfectly depicts the tension between medicine as a craft and medicine as it is taught, and how much of medicine is about ignoring the ivory tower bullshit you are taught in school.

But yeah, it's not worth it. Don't go to medical school. It's a meat grinder with costs that far outweigh any rewards. At the very least, have someone else pay for your studies and don't go into debt for a lifestyle that is ultimately very punishing.

And don't talk about being 'passionate' for medicine until you're covered in shit and blood and have been on your feet for 32 hours straight and have been so busy that you forgot to eat and you almost die on the way home because you fell asleep behind the wheel.

For me blood is not an issue. Ive job shadowed some family friends who are oral surgeons and their work has not bothered me one bit. In terms of the psychological problems associated with the patients life being at your hands, that is something that I'm not sure how I'm going to be able to deal with yet. It is kind of frightening but I like to think that successfully saving lives and the patient's gratitude would balance the emotional suffering of messing up. There are also options which don't have as much responsibility. Im not trying to become a trauma surgeon or anything like that, Im thinking something that could provide a decent lifestyle as well such as radiology.

Its definitely a difficult job, I realize that and I agree that the work hours suck but certain specialties can offer more lenient schedules.

My Dad is a dentist and I've seen what he does for a living. He decides his own schedule, starting and finishing whenever he wants. He works like 5 days a week and makes great money. The education is only 4 years after my bachelors degree so I would only be like 26 when I'm done my education and I would have a very successful practice to immediately walk into after graduating. The only reason Im pursuing medicine is because I don't really like what he does for a living. Ive seen what he does and fixing peoples teeth doesnt interest me personally. In high school I wanted to do orthodontics because of all the hot hygienists that work for you but as I've grown older the job doesnt appeal to me as much (id still wanna bang the hygienists though .) Nothing is ruled out as an option yet. That is why I'm asking you guys because I know my options are open right now but they won't be open forever and I want to look at this from every perspective.

You mentioned some great points though thanks!

Post: #36

(03-09-2013 05:14 PM)Jazzman92 Wrote:  So I'm currently in pre-med at university and I plan on going to medical school in the future. One thing I've found so far is that it's very difficult to manage my time with the excessive amount of work I have from all of my classes.

This will only get worse. Handle it, son.

Quote:Im trying to incorporate physical activity and doing approaches into my lifestyle but with the amount of stress thats comes with the grades necessary to even get into a medical program, it sometimes feels too overwhelming and I'm forced to just focus solely on school.

You can game the girls at your school. In fact, you should absolutely do this.

Quote:Also my priority is to get into a north american school so I could potentially specialize as a surgeon, as I know many foreign trained medical doctors have a tough time getting into surgical programs in north america. Another option I have is to go somewhere abroad like Australia, Ireland or the Caribbean. I may not have as much opportunities of coming back to Canada but at least I would have the peace of mind knowing that by passing my courses I will reach my goal of becoming a medical doctor. The money is great and I know of many specialists who make close to 2 million dollars where i live and my tuition is paid for so that isn't really an issue for me.

I do not think you will make 2 million per year. But please prove me wrong.

Quote:I also have a genuine passion for this career path and human physiology is something I've always enjoyed studying.

This is a legit reason to be an MD.

Quote:Lately however I have been debating whether this shit is even worth it. I'm a 20 years old virgin right now and I do not get any girls.

Doing medicine has nothing to do with this.

Quote:My friends are pretty much all alphas and get laid like crazy and I'm the odd one out of the bunch which can be very discouraging.

Watch what they do and emulate. You can study science, so study their behavior too.

Quote:Ive also gotten really fat over the course of my university life so far after i quit doing mma in high school and started eating shitty food at university.

Get in shape now. When you are in medicine you will see all the fat slobs you have chronic diseases and you will be inspired to not be one of them.

Quote:Based on my current situation what would you guys recommend. Would you even bother with medical school. Its going to take me 11 more years to become a specialist and I would be making lots of money but becoming a neurotic beta in the process doesnt seem worth it to me atm.

You will be a neurotic beta or game crushing alpha - your choice - and this had nothing to do with medicine.

Quote:I am going to be take the next 4 months off and designate that time specifically to personal development but at this point in time i feel lost with no sense of direction and any advice from you guys would be great. Thanks.

Medicine is worth it if you want to be a doctor. There is no other way.

If you want to know how bad it can get and how good too just read "The House of God" by "Samuel Shem." Amazon it and buy it and read if you are serious. It's funny and accurate at the same time even though it's from the 70s.

Do you like the idea of saving peoples lives? Do you mind the blood and spit and puke? It's real shit every day. Real drama. And a lot of paperwork and BS throughout. No one will give a shit about your complaints about not having sex when people are dying left and right in the unit or getting diagnosed with advanced cancer. But everything counts. It makes you numb to a lot and tired but at the same time lifts you up. Just deal with it.

Oh and bang as many RN's as you can in the process. They take orders for a living and are not afraid to get dirty.

About money...you could possibly get rich, you will almost certainly be comfortable, if you are at least competent you will never be poor.

Post: #37

(03-11-2013 02:11 AM)Jazzman92 Wrote:  It is kind of frightening but I like to think that successfully saving lives and the patient's gratitude would balance the emotional suffering of messing up.

Excuse me while I laugh at the idea of a grateful patient...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAAHAAA!

Okay, my lol moment is over.

You are naive to believe in patient gratitude.

The ones you do the most for will be the ones least likely to thank you.

Now dentistry school, there's a good idea. Go for it.

Post: #38

The situation is clear.If you study in the US the medical school is worth it.If you study outside the US it is not worth it.Medicine is heavy it will take your soul.You are going to encounter some serious shit.you had no idea before like double standards applied on your face.It is not meritocratic to say at least and average performance of doctors is never taken into account.
You will need to memorize tons of material and after that you may be considered inadequate for your memorization harmed your social functions.They will always judge you on will on your weakest points.You willl see time split into seconds where every second counts.You will encounter heavy situation where you have to remain cold and arrange things in the middle of a chaos.Even if you remain cold you will be accused for lack of empathy.If you become emotional you will be accused of incompetence.In this field you very often reach your limits physically and mentally and most of the tests and exams are designed for this to see how well you perform under stress and time pressure if your judgement gets harmed due to lack of sleep etc.

Americans have measured everything so they know what your limits are and how much you deviate.You have to beat the system but the system is well designed they have developed it for decades.
To pass these tests you just need an IQ over 115 but tons of effort and memorization.Americans do not like heavy memorizers like Asians etc so have developed all kinds of tricks to block them.They put deliberately questions to test your social intelligence regardless of memorization.They also deduct answers to very difficult questions but you never know which ones so you may have answered better than another student but he gets better grade because you failed in 2-3 easy questions while you got 15 difficult questions which he failed to answer.
They never reveal the way of grading the tests it is totally cryptic so you cannot beat the system in core.You are also forbidden to reveal exam questions or style of questions,relevant material to others.

It has to do with ability of exams to screen for perfect candidate which the authorities secure later with LORs and interviews(in case of wrong exams result).

Post: #39

What do you want your life to be like in 6-10 years?

Do you want to be working you ass off and accumulate a lot of money that you can't enjoy, have a wife that will spend the money that you work hard to get, a couple kids, a nice house, a safe neighborhood?

Do you want to be ripped, be able to get out most of the nights and have a regular supply of hot young pussy, a nice bankroll, travel when you want and have connections in all the major cities on earth?

If you focus your mind on working your ass off at the gym, putting the right knowledge in your brain, your social skills and ways to increase your net worth in 6-10 years you will thank yourself.

You should be thinking about attaining financial freedom, which means that you will not have to take orders from anyone in order to live a fulfilling life.

To be a doctor means that you will have to put tremendous effort for a decade in order to be qualified for a job which requires you to work even harder for the rest of your prime years.

This is RVF, a good chunk of the knowledge you need to enjoy life is here.

The choice is yours, which road will you take?

Post: #40

The answer to this question, like many others, is "it depends".
You seem to have some serious misconceptions about medical school...and even though I frankly think it is a bit silly to be asking for advice on your future career in a profession on a game forum, here goes nothing...
First off, getting into medicine in Canada is extremely difficult. Canadian medical schools - for some odd reason - are extremely competitive, and the combination of grades, MCAT scores, province and GPA plays in heavily with re to where you will be getting in. Many applicants don't get in their first try, or their second, or their third...and end up languishing in research labs as technicians or in physiotherapy/nursing/ other ancillary positions. You need to work very hard in university...and you will need to work much harder in med school itself - which is approximately equivalent to taking 7-8 science courses at a time (with one or two labs).
A possible solution to your dilemma here - you could, rather than taking 4-5 science courses at a time while becoming obese and uni-dimensional - consider taking fewer courses - maybe even 3 science courses and 2 humanities courses at a time. There is no harm in protracting your university career by a year if it means that you can enjoy your life and not spend the next ten years carrying on unhealthy habits that will only become more difficult to eradicate as you get older. Furthermore, the humanities courses will make you a more interesting individual and force you to speak to a different crowd of people. In upper level humanities courses, you may even be obliged to express your opinion in front of peers - which will help during the interview and application process. With fewer science courses, you will have more time to chase women and workout as well. I fully agree with many posters here that these are important years of your life and should be spent enjoying and exploring life rather than committed to a cubicle memorizing the Krebs cycle.
The second solution is to stop whining - and if you have decided to embark upon the 4 year science degree with honours route, then commit to it without complaining about how you don't have time to do other things. It is science; science courses - especially third and fourth year courses with labs are difficult, time consuming - and you should have realized by now what you are getting into.
To temper the above, you should also know that every year, there are hundreds of kids like you taking the prerequisites for medicine, and most of them don't get in. Some of them don't get in despite looking great on paper. I could get into why, but that is another story. You could go to a foreign school - in Ireland, the caribbean or australia - but if you aren't exceptional in these places - it is difficult to return. That being said - many people I know who have been away for medical school have had a blast and wouldn't have switched that experience for the world. As a caveat - these are also people who successfully matched to Canadian residencies after their medical school.

Next - specialists making 2 million dollars...are very few and far between. If you want to do medicine because you want to make even a million dollars - you are going to be sorely disappointed. By and large, the surgical subspecialties where you can make ridiculous sums of money are saturated - and every year there are graduates of 5 year residency programs (after 4 years of medicine) who are doing fellowship upon fellowship in a very competitive, saturated, dog eat dog job market just to obtain a job - and trust me - these aren't jobs that pay even close to a million dollars a year. Most of the provinces are looking to save money in health care - and this means cuts for the most lucrative specialities - such as cardiology and ophthalmology are already occurring. What is more likely is that you will be making a salary in the 200 - 400 range to start with - depending on your residency choices (and which is likely less than what your father currently makes - assuming that he has a successful dentistry practice).
With regards to your next paragraph...is this even worth it? I think yes, many think no.
There is the social value and prestige - and though you might not be the most interesting person in every room you walk into - you will be secure in the knowledge that you are well respected (physicians and teachers top lists for respectable professions), have a stable job (people aren't going to stop getting sick), and are in the top 1% of income earners in most settings.
There is the knowledge that you can and will push your body to its utter limits - physically, emotionally, mentally. I didn't think that it was humanly possible for someone to be working 120 hours in a week and still make sane decisions. It is. Can you go without sleep for 30 something hours and still function? You can and you will.
Some might think that this is insane. It probably is. But, it has made me feel more "alpha" knowing that I am capable of doing things that I would have likely never attempted otherwise - all the while fighting nature tooth and nail and helping people, but I am also afflicted with a pretty fucking sunny disposition.
Needless to say, if you like the intricacy of human physiology, and you actually like the idea of working with people, rather than just making money off of them, then with all due respect to everyone, I can't think of a better profession.
As far as being an NP or PA goes...I can't comment on this. But I will leave you with a simple thought - that the most important determinant of health - for just about any population - is income and social status.
Best of luck.

Post: #41

Some really great comments in this thread.. La familia, el chef, TtR, samsara.

I think the value of posting this question on a game forum is knowing if this profession would be conducive to the lifestyle we value.

Do med students live pretty humble lifestyles? The lack of income and major time commitments med school seem to be big constraints on a guy's game. What about the summers? Can you travel or do you meed to be doing some north american medical work experience?

What are the pros and cons of being a doctor for a single guy? The money would be better but you might feel tied to a certain location or over worked. The prestige factor would get girls interested but maybe for the wrong reasons.. I could imagine them even not slutting it up so they can seem like a good girl for their future Dr. Husband.

I agree this is not the place to determine if medicine is your true calling but knowing the ups and downs of the lifestyle according to people that think similarly will help us evaluate the rewards and sacrifices of the choice.

In my case, I would be mostly studying medicine in my late 20s and early 30s so no risk of feeling like I threw away my youth or didn't fuck enough girls.

Post: #42

Is medical school worth it?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. HEHEHEHEHEHE. HOHOHOHOHOHO.

sorry, i couldn't help myself.

Here is Nemencine's FIVE Easy Steps to help you decide:

step #1. read a book called "HOUSE OF GOD" by Samuel Shem(trust me, you wont be able to put it down until you've finished it.) It is absolutely riveting. That book will sober you up completely. Let me repeat that: that book will bloody sober your arse up completely. That is step #1.

Step #2: Head to medical forums with current and prospective medical students and read and ask questions. Actually, all your questions would have been answered in the archives. Trust me.

Step#3. Find a hospital nearby and talk to fresh med school grads in their residencies. Talk to 4th or 5th year residents too.

Step #4. Do some EMT volunteer work or volunteer work at a local clinic/hospital etc. To give you a taste.

Step #5. Grab a strong bottle of scotch and take a long, long, long walk and let everything marinate and ask yourself this: honestly, do i really want to fucking do this? why the bloody hell do i want this? are there alternatives?

Bro, you have to love the living shite out of the practice of medicine.

My problem is that, while i love pure, raw medical knowledge(actually, i love all scientific knowledge....from geology of Europa(jupiter's moon) to ischemic diffusion in brain pathophysiology....while I like raw medical knowledge....i absolutely hate the practice of medicine. .

Working in a hospital convinced me of that. the practice of medicine is not for me.

Hence, I made my decision not to go to medical school.

.

Post: #43

Go to medical school if you want to become a doctor.

Dont do it for status, money or anything else.

Keep in mind being a doctor can take on a myriad of lifestyles. You could certainly pursue something in keeping with your lifestyle. i..e. become an emerg doctor with a flexible schedule allowing travel time as opposed to a busy surgeon locked down to a practice..

Post: #44

with all due respect, bigxxx....this is my problem with these kinds of advice you are dishing out.

they are either immaterial or not helpful at all. here is a breakdown of why i say that:

(07-31-2013 08:04 PM)bigxxx Wrote:  Go to medical school if you want to become a doctor.

Yeah...sure..duh! But, how do you know that before you are even a doctor?!?! You certainly dont want to finish medical school...internship before reaching that epiphany. Just because you think you want to be a barrister(or a lawyer) doesnt mean you won't hate the living shite out of being a barrister(or a lawyer.) that is why i have step #3 and #4 in my FIVE EASY STEPS METHOD of knowing if you want to be a doctor or not.

(07-31-2013 08:04 PM)bigxxx Wrote:  Dont do it for status, money or anything else.

Oh please! There will always be intangibles. you cannot realistically separate them apart. we are human beings. there are people that want status and money and went into the music industry to get these things and made it big time. now what?! all these little things comes in. It doesnt matter which profession. doctor or rockstar. It all depends on your core as a person. Again, hence my five easy steps in determining if you want to be a doctor.
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(07-31-2013 08:04 PM)bigxxx Wrote:  Keep in mind being a doctor can take on a myriad of lifestyles. You could certainly pursue something in keeping with your lifestyle. i..e. become an emerg doctor with a flexible schedule allowing travel time as opposed to a busy surgeon locked down to a practice..

You know all these because?.....

(a)You are a doctor yourself? how best can you extrapolate your own experience to his?.....
(b)You've seen this with doctors with your very own eyes?
©You live in a country where you know this to be a fact because...you've actively associated with doctors with these lifestyle choices?

if you cannot answer these questions....you are merely wasting the lad's time.

Again, hence my five steps method. If you see the breakdown of my 5 steps:You start with knowledge and questions(step #1 and #2)...you end with practice and exposure to medical field(step #3 and #4).....and then, you contemplate on totality of everything you've learned and EXPERIENCED and do a gut check.

It weed out all these armchair theorecticians...because it plunges you into the weeds of things by outlining for you how you should go about doing the personal research that will lead to your own enlightenment as to whether you want to be a doctor or not.

Only you can know the why, what, where, how, and whom.

Post: #45

@ Nemencine

^I know that a doctor can take on a myriad of lifestyle because I have common sense.

Is it not apparent to you that a neurosurgeon, obstetrician, public health official, researcher, physician with medicines sans frontier's and a coroner have jobs that don't resemble one another despite all being MDs?

To be clear, money and status are great. But you have to enjoy the practise of medicine to make the necessary commitment to get through medical school-residency-boards. If money-status are your PRIMARY motives, there are other avenues.

You may wish to revise your 5 step guide before sending it off for the printing presses:

Step 1: read the book, no one denies training is tough. also depends what you train in; is OP gonna be an orthopaedic surgeon doing 80hr/week or a psychiatry resident doing 9-5? That book would jade the fuck out of someone for no reason

step 2: What good is it to interview prospective medical students? OP is basically one himself. Why not speak to DOCTORS who have been practising for more than 10 years and ask them 'would you do it again'? Those answers would be of value. Ask people who have arrived at their DESTINATION, not while they are going through the journey as it's a tough one

step 3: ditto step 2

step 4: meh..Once again it would help if OP knows what area he is interested in; otherwise, where do you suggest he volunteer??...ER? OR? Path Lab? ICU? Obs floor? Psych Ward?

Sure, volunteer work is better than nothing but still not a great gauge

Step 5: Agree, think it through

I don't need to answer your questions. I post in threads not for the sake of it but if I have intimate knowledge of the subject at hand. You can use your imagination to interpret that as you like. The OP can decide if anything Ive said is of value.

Post: #46

Sounds like you're interested in med school, but for the others on this forum, think about nursing.

I'm in nursing school in the bay area. It's the best bang for the buck and time off. Starting out here if you can get into a good hospital like Kaiser, 100k a year w/no overtime. Full time is 3 days, 12 hour shifts. Some overtime thrown in and you can make as much as a general physician starting out. Get into the specialized units and you can make crazy money. When I'm all said and done with my education, I'll have no debt, and will have spent less than $20k on it (up to BSN, not counting for master's).

Number one trusted profession = nurses! Chicks fucking love us. They see a pair of scrubs walking down the street and heads turn. I was walking down the sidewalk and had a chick yell out to me from the middle of the crosswalk asking if I was a nurse. A set of scrubs is a serious pussy magnet, all for less than $50. Hospitals are packed to the brim with hot chicks too. My neck seriously gets strained from craning around taking it all in.

As a doctor you will be a slave to the hospital. Good luck with that. And to the dude who said physicians talk shit to nurses/PAs, not the case here in Cali. We have nice unions. We can tell a Dr. to fuck right on off.

Post: #47

(08-01-2013 03:04 AM)redwoodsandwaves Wrote:  Full time is 3 days, 12 hour shifts. Some overtime thrown in and you can make as much as a general physician starting out.

I'm curious, how do your night shifts work? Are your night shifts considered normal working hours or overtime hours? Is it 50% day and 50% night or a different ratio?

Post: #48

Does anyone have any data on becoming a paramedic, or what the lifestyle/job is actually like?

Post: #49

(08-01-2013 04:42 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(08-01-2013 03:04 AM)redwoodsandwaves Wrote:  Full time is 3 days, 12 hour shifts. Some overtime thrown in and you can make as much as a general physician starting out.

I'm curious, how do your night shifts work? Are your night shifts considered normal working hours or overtime hours? Is it 50% day and 50% night or a different ratio?

There could be exceptions to what I say, I'm still in school so my knowledge is still limited, but the hospitals I know of and have had clinical in, night shift is normal working hours. You may get a few bucks more for it but it's not overtime.

My buddy's wife is a nurse who works night shifts a lot, and does the overtime route. Regular pay for first 12 hours, time and a half for the next 4 hours, double time after that.

Post: #50

(08-01-2013 10:31 AM)WesternCancer Wrote:  Does anyone have any data on becoming a paramedic, or what the lifestyle/job is actually like?

I believe you have to become an EMT first, which is easy as hell. Community colleges offer the program. EMTs make like $12-14 hr. I believe they make you have a year or two experience before you can apply to paramedic school. Paramedic school is 18 months and not easy.

It depends on what you want to do. Ride around in a truck all day shuffling people to the hospital. You definitely learn some really cool stuff about patching people up, making them stable enough to get to the ER. I think the shifts are pretty cool, giving you plenty of time off.

In my opinion it's not worth it at all. The pay isn't great at all, and where do you advance to? Supervisor? No thanks. Nursing school is just a tad longer with a larger pay rate, and the sky is the limit for where you want to take your career.