Post: #76

(03-15-2013 08:55 PM)Lemmo Wrote:  I'm not going to sift through more links. The fact that you are having to Google examples when you supposedly spent time living among all these "freedom hating religious people" proves the point that you just had a knee jerk opinion against red states and then tried to justify it after the fact. The truth is that these states are dominated by conservatives and yet do not impose the sorts of restrictions on speech that are on the books in Europe or at least seriously debated in the EU and national legislatures. All you've come up with is some campaign quotes, a sex toy ban (on selling in shops not having) and a ban on booze in fully nude strip clubs. Hardly compares to bans on porn and broad restrictions of "sexist" or "racist" speech you have in some EU countries.

Google links are more credible than me telling you about experience walking into a strip club in Arkansas.

As for the campaign quotes, yes, that is what you would have seen if those nutjobs had been elected into office. All the states that I mentioned actually voted for one of those guys to become President. It just showed that the top contenders on the Right would have been in complete agreement with this legislation. Bad porn, destroying fundamental family values, etc. etc. So, it is completely relevant.

The EU porn ban didn't pass either. So, railing against it and claiming that this is what "leftist governments do" and "telling people what to think" is the real knee jerk reaction.

Post: #77

(03-15-2013 09:03 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 08:55 PM)Lemmo Wrote:  I'm not going to sift through more links. The fact that you are having to Google examples when you supposedly spent time living among all these "freedom hating religious people" proves the point that you just had a knee jerk opinion against red states and then tried to justify it after the fact. The truth is that these states are dominated by conservatives and yet do not impose the sorts of restrictions on speech that are on the books in Europe or at least seriously debated in the EU and national legislatures. All you've come up with is some campaign quotes, a sex toy ban (on selling in shops not having) and a ban on booze in fully nude strip clubs. Hardly compares to bans on porn and broad restrictions of "sexist" or "racist" speech you have in some EU countries.

Google links are more credible than me telling you about experience walking into a strip club in Arkansas.

As for the campaign quotes, yes, that is what you would have seen if those nutjobs had been elected into office. All the states that I mentioned actually voted for one of those guys to become President. So, it is completely relevant.

The EU porn ban didn't pass either. So, railing against it and claiming that this is what "leftist governments do" and "telling people what to think" is the real knee jerk reaction.

I think your real world experiences would be more relevant because you could then point to actual laws that had made it through the political system and placed meaningful restrictions on your freedom. References to vague campaign quotes about the importance of family values and the dangers of porn aren't really that convincing. In a representative system there will generally be only as much freedom as the people and their representatives are willing to preserve and the evil red state conservatives have shown much more restraint than the EU elites. You can Google and easily find examples of actual laws and actual penalties being imposed in EU countries for non-PC speech. But we'll agree to disagree.

Post: #78

(03-15-2013 09:13 PM)Lemmo Wrote:  References to vague campaign quotes about the importance of family values and the dangers of porn aren't really that convincing. In a representative system there will generally be only as much freedom as the people and their representatives are willing to preserve and the evil red state conservatives have shown much more restraint than the EU elites. You can Google and easily find examples of actual laws and actual penalties being imposed in EU countries for non-PC speech. But we'll agree to disagree.

Vague campaign quotes? Are you saying that leaders on the Right don't believe in preserving family values and don't stand behind their words? The EU porn ban was proposed by some fringe leftist candidate, and it was rejected. These three men talking about a return to fundamental family values are the leaders of a major national party. That's a lot more scary.

Do you actually believe that any of these three guys would have opposed a ban on pornography? Hardly.