(03-23-2017 12:12 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Don't you have to at least acknowledge your own bias, and that you seem to have no tolerance for BTC at any price? - and you have been saying that you have no tolerance for BTC since the mid $200s all the way up to the present price for a bit more than a year and a half. No?

One thing is to be jittery and to have some tolerance for BTC, but your actions and your words show that you have no tolerance which makes your suggestion seem to be without much ability to relate to others who may have higher tolerances for BTC, no?

Jesus, JJG... I try and filter out most of your spergy rambling because it's obvious you are fundamentally dedicated to BTC and at least you try and post links and share info. But if you're calling out someone on being biased, you should be held to the same standard of accountability. If Satoshi is one end of the spectrum, you are definitely his antithesis and equally without ability to relate to others on the forum given the framework you put out.

You've been a permabull ever since you started posting on this thread and it's my understanding that you have most of your net worth in BTC, also mostly bought on the upswing... at the very least, it wasn't purchased in the double digits like the OP pants. You have that much coin floating around on anything and it's going to severely color your perception of it.

I'm guessing that you will most likely parse your response line by line to this post - as is your MO - but I wanted to merely hold the candle to what I saw as some ridiculous shit.

People should make their own informed decisions for financial matters, instead of listening to others preach on the internet.

Make your own decision.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2...3ae80a7325

Bitcoin hard fork is potentially a very bad thing. Look at the price of ETC, a result of an ETH hard fork.

(03-23-2017 02:01 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  

(03-23-2017 12:12 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(03-22-2017 11:53 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  

(03-21-2017 07:16 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  Looks like Coinbase will only recognize BTC in the event of a hard fork, at least initially.

I don't like the sound of it. I may consider selling all of my bitcoins and staying in cash until after the fork (or the prospect of a fork recedes), then get back in.

Problem is if bitcoin experiences a price spike when its either recognized as the dominant coin or the threat of a fork goes away, I would miss out on that.

I'm not trying to give any advice what so ever, however I don't think this is crazy at all and if I were holding BTC this is what I would do.

Don't you have to at least acknowledge your own bias, and that you seem to have no tolerance for BTC at any price? - and you have been saying that you have no tolerance for BTC since the mid $200s all the way up to the present price for a bit more than a year and a half. No?

One thing is to be jittery and to have some tolerance for BTC, but your actions and your words show that you have no tolerance which makes your suggestion seem to be without much ability to relate to others who may have higher tolerances for BTC, no?

You seem quite uncomfortable about an potential hard fork yourself?

I know that this hardfork is topic de jour, and in that regard it is getting a lot of press regarding possibilities and downward pressures that it is putting on BTC prices, and currently I am continuing to give it less than about a 20% chance of happening anytime soon... sure under changed events, I might change my estimation of the likelihood of it happening, and since there is quite a lot of discussion about it, I am continuing to read about it and mostly continuing to discount the likelihood of it happening.

Maybe I am bothered by it, but I am not really fighting the fact that it is a topic of current discussion, and merely continuing to chime in on the topic.

(03-23-2017 02:01 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  So why do you think the market thinks otherwise?

It is not 100% unambiguous what the market thinks because Bitcoin's price continues to remain above $1000 and it continues on a kind of streak of high numbers still within the past top 50 of high weighted daily average numbers.

Sure it could dip and correct some more and even go down as low as $800 and still be in an overall bullish trend. Some of these kinds of corrections are part of the dynamics, and are not completely bad for bitcoin and we are not really in any kind of "bad" place, in terms of overall price and everything else going on in the bitcoin space.

Also, as I said in several other postings, these hardfork concepts have been around since mid-2015 - when the price was $200 - and I think was part of the reason that you got out of bitcoin. But bitcoin has done more than a 4x price increase since then and really on a fairly gradual basis.. which seems to be decently solid and decently likely that smarter money is actually continuing to buy in rather than dumping based on the continued and another variation of hardfork FUD spreading.

(03-23-2017 02:01 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  If the hard fork is unsuccessful the price will definitely fall.

Even though there are NO "definites" in bitcoin, a hardfork is very likely to cause an overall loss of confidence and an overall loss of market cap. However, if there is a forking, then we also would need to measure market cap by adding the market caps of the two forks in order to get total market cap.

Like I also said many times, I constantly attempt to prepare for both price directions, and I tend to not really make any big moves in terms of my holdings, so maybe instead of holding 90% bitcoin, I may reduce that to 85% or something like that, and that would be a big move for me, if I were to do it all at once, but I tend to work on accomplishing those kinds of adjustments in a moderated way.. or maybe after a big dip or rise I may make a bit of a strategic adjustment at that time.. but not really with more than 5% of my holdings (at least so far that has been my strategy).

(03-23-2017 04:00 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  However, if there is a forking, then we also would need to measure market cap by adding the market caps of the two forks in order to get total market cap.

Completely delusional. Hey guys my wife took half my money in a divorce. But to calculate my net worth you have to take my money and hers.

(03-23-2017 02:19 AM)booshala Wrote:  

(03-23-2017 12:12 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Don't you have to at least acknowledge your own bias, and that you seem to have no tolerance for BTC at any price? - and you have been saying that you have no tolerance for BTC since the mid $200s all the way up to the present price for a bit more than a year and a half. No?

One thing is to be jittery and to have some tolerance for BTC, but your actions and your words show that you have no tolerance which makes your suggestion seem to be without much ability to relate to others who may have higher tolerances for BTC, no?

Jesus, JJG... I try and filter out most of your spergy rambling because it's obvious you are fundamentally dedicated to BTC and at least you try and post links and share info. But if you're calling out someone on being biased, you should be held to the same standard of accountability.

On an ongoing basis, I attempt to explain from where I am coming from in terms of any information that I am providing in this thread. Everyone has some biases, and I am not afraid to confront my biases to the extent that they may possibly be an item of relevance.. most of the time, they are likely not any kind of item of relevance for me, because, like I said, I tend to frequently disclose considerable details about my thinking - and sometimes I am responding to other and sometimes those are merely attempts to distract this thread into irrelevancies.

(03-23-2017 02:19 AM)booshala Wrote:  If Satoshi is one end of the spectrum, you are definitely his antithesis and equally without ability to relate to others on the forum given the framework you put out.

This kind of self-analysis of compare and contrast does not seem to be a fruitful discussion.

None of should expect to relate to everyone, but we should be abel to provide our perspective on various topics and some guys will benefits from that others will not and some will chose not to read.

(03-23-2017 02:19 AM)booshala Wrote:  You've been a permabull ever since you started posting on this thread and it's my understanding that you have most of your net worth in BTC, also mostly bought on the upswing...

I have described my strategy many times and even described my investment level on a number of occasions. My strategy has been to buy on the way down and to sell on the way up with some variations, so in that regard I am not buying on the upswing, even though my very first purchase of 1.24 BTC was at $1200, but that one purchase does not tell my story, and I have been using this thread and other threads as a means to post about and to research into an area of interest of mine.

(03-23-2017 02:19 AM)booshala Wrote:  at the very least, it wasn't purchased in the double digits like the OP pants.

So fucking what. I did not purchase in the double digits because I did not really know much of anything about bitcoin until late 2013 and bitcoin has not been in the double digits since then - best case scenario for me could have been in the upper $100s, and really it seems fantastical to measure based on some kind of bragging ability to time the market movements, which is nearly an impossible task and a strategy that is not within my own way of approaching investment, including what has been my largely ongoing strategies in bitcoin.

(03-23-2017 02:19 AM)booshala Wrote:  You have that much coin floating around on anything and it's going to severely color your perception of it.

Fair enough that bitcoin has become a decent chunk of my overall investment portfolio... and like I already said, I tend to attempt to disclose details of my own investment on a fairly regular basis...

(03-23-2017 02:19 AM)booshala Wrote:  I'm guessing that you will most likely parse your response line by line to this post - as is your MO - but I wanted to merely hold the candle to what I saw as some ridiculous shit.

Hahahaha.. You got me right in terms of parsing the post, line by line, and I did not even read this part, until I got to the end. But, since I already invested in parsing your post, I will just leave it "as is" and concede on the parsing point.

Regarding ridiculous, I think that you are overreacting and maybe just too bothered by how much I post in this thread. I don't know what can be done about those kinds of matters, at this moment.

(03-23-2017 03:42 AM)Armogan Wrote:  

I'm not sure what you mean about the Aspergers point.

(03-23-2017 03:42 AM)Armogan Wrote:  People should make their own informed decisions for financial matters, instead of listening to others preach on the internet.

Are you attempting to rebutt the points of anyone else, or just agreeing?

I think that this is a frequent theme that is made, and sure it bears repeating but I am not sure about what you are referring to?

(03-23-2017 03:42 AM)Armogan Wrote:  Make your own decision.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2...3ae80a7325

That's a pretty decent article, Armogan.

(03-23-2017 03:42 AM)Armogan Wrote:  Bitcoin hard fork is potentially a very bad thing. Look at the price of ETC, a result of an ETH hard fork.

I agree that a hardfork would not be a good thing for bitcoin, especially since the foundational core approach is in a very good place, yet your attempt at comparing what is happening in ETH/ETC comes off as an incomplete explanation. Maybe you can explain a bit more about what you mean? The price of ETH rallied, and the price of ETC did not rally, yet, but currently, the price of ETC seems to be coming up a bit (at the moment) as ETH seems to be consolidating. Maybe ETC is going to stay down, and not rally, so that part has not played out yet, and seems too early to call, right?

(03-23-2017 04:11 AM)Armogan Wrote:  

(03-23-2017 04:00 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  However, if there is a forking, then we also would need to measure market cap by adding the market caps of the two forks in order to get total market cap.

Completely delusional. Hey guys my wife took half my money in a divorce. But to calculate my net worth you have to take my money and hers.

Again, you seem to be employing a very poor analogy with the marriage thing-a-ma-jiggy, whether you are attempting to respond to what i am saying or whether you are attempting to give attributes to what I am saying.

I have my doubts about whether it would be productive to explain why your analogy does not work because marriage involves two people who have come together and then the divorce is that they are coming apart. Forking involves something that began as one thing, but turns into two things. Just for that alone, it should be pretty obvious that your analogy doesn't fit.


Maybe this could be a decent place to attempt to analogize what happened in ETH/ETC and attempt to compare that with what could happen in bitcoin or at least ETH/ETC would be a closer analogy than marriage because it is dealing with two things that used to be one thing rather than two people who had a contract and then broke up the contract.

Anyhow, we could discuss further regarding the dynamics of forks and possibilities. I certainly don't proclaim to know everything about the hard forking topic, and because of the dominance of this topic in various bitcoin circles, I had been learning a bit more about the topic (and how it is currently playing out in bitcoin) in recent days, too.

(03-23-2017 04:00 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Also, as I said in several other postings, these hardfork concepts have been around since mid-2015 - when the price was $200 - and I think was part of the reason that you got out of bitcoin. But bitcoin has done more than a 4x price increase since then and really on a fairly gradual basis.. which seems to be decently solid and decently likely that smarter money is actually continuing to buy in rather than dumping based on the continued and another variation of hardfork FUD spreading.

Since mid-2015;
Maidsafecoin has done a 10x price increase.
Dash has done a 50x price increase.
Ethereum has done a 50x price increase.
Monero has done a 40x price increase.

So I do not regret getting out of bitcoin at all.

These kind of hardfork concepts have been around for years for a reason, at one point or another bitcoin will have to hardfork to be able to handle more transactions.

(03-23-2017 04:11 AM)Armogan Wrote:  

(03-23-2017 04:00 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  However, if there is a forking, then we also would need to measure market cap by adding the market caps of the two forks in order to get total market cap.

Completely delusional. Hey guys my wife took half my money in a divorce. But to calculate my net worth you have to take my money and hers.

(03-23-2017 04:23 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  even though my very first purchase of 1.24 BTC was at $1200,

(03-23-2017 04:36 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  I agree that a hardfork would not be a good thing for bitcoin,

It would be a good thing for bitcoin.

(03-23-2017 10:23 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  So I do not regret getting out of bitcoin at all.

So you come back to this thread on a regular basis because you would like to save RVF guys from themselves?

(03-23-2017 10:23 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  

(03-23-2017 04:23 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  even though my very first purchase of 1.24 BTC was at $1200,

Yes, you quote me out of context in order to distract and attempt to make fun. My first posts in this thread in late 2013 and early 2014 show a lot of my considerations which have evolved over the passing time.

I see no reason to compete with anyone in regards to investing, whether BTC or otherwise, but I do share details of aspects of my BTC investment, my investment choices and decisions in order to brainstorm about potential BTC strategies going forward and various considerations in terms of current events and BTC price movements - some personal details might be relevant or helpful in those circumstance.

For example, in late 2015 when I started trading BTC my average cost per BTC (including all my BTC related expenses) was a bit more than $500 (and the price at that time was in the mid-$200s), and BTC trading allowed me to bring down my average cost per BTC considerably (by about 20%) and to accumulate about 10% more BTC without any extra costs - even while BTC prices went up considerably during that time (but they surely were volatile, too).

Sure, guys can make more BTC or fiat, but I am NOT competing with other RVF guys but sharing a BTC approach that seems to work pretty well for my situation.... and my mostly conservative strategy and I tend to tweak my BTC strategy from time to time and to discuss some of my tweaking details to the extent that I believe that RVF guys may be interested in such.

I understand that there can be a variety of BTC strategies that work for RVF guys to tailor to their own situations, views and risk tolerances, and I believe that remains part of the reason to post to this thread.

(03-23-2017 11:06 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(03-23-2017 10:23 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  So I do not regret getting out of bitcoin at all.

So you come back to this thread on a regular basis because you would like to save RVF guys from themselves?

(03-23-2017 10:23 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  

(03-23-2017 04:23 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  even though my very first purchase of 1.24 BTC was at $1200,

Yes, you quote me out of context in order to distract and attempt to make fun. My first posts in this thread in late 2013 and early 2014 show a lot of my considerations which have evolved over the passing time.

I see no reason to compete with anyone in regards to investing, whether BTC or otherwise, but I do share details of aspects of my BTC investment, my investment choices and decisions in order to brainstorm about potential BTC strategies going forward and various considerations in terms of current events and BTC price movements - some personal details might be relevant or helpful in those circumstance.

For example, in late 2015 when I started trading BTC my average cost per BTC (including all my BTC related expenses) was a bit more than $500 (and the price at that time was in the mid-$200s), and BTC trading allowed me to bring down my average cost per BTC considerably (by about 20%) and to accumulate about 10% more BTC without any extra costs - even while BTC prices went up considerably during that time (but they surely were volatile, too).

Sure, guys can make more BTC or fiat, but I am NOT competing with other RVF guys but sharing a BTC approach that seems to work pretty well for my situation.... and my mostly conservative strategy and I tend to tweak my BTC strategy from time to time and to discuss some of my tweaking details to the extent that I believe that RVF guys may be interested in such.

I understand that there can be a variety of BTC strategies that work for RVF guys to tailor to their own situations, views and risk tolerances, and I believe that remains part of the reason to post to this thread.

Does anyone really care about your investments strategies? Anyone who cares about Juan raise a hand!

(03-23-2017 11:50 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  

(03-23-2017 11:06 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  [edited out]

Does anyone really care about your investments strategies? Anyone who cares about Juan raise a hand!

Again you pervert the point. I could give a ratt's ass if anyone "cares" about me.

If you could attempt to stick to substance rather than attempting to make matters personal, that could possibly help.

I will admit that you had one post that arguably could be considered as substantive in the past day (this one) that seemed to be substantive, but you have this tendency to devolve (and seem to like to focus) into non-substantive and meaningless attempts at irrelevant personal discussions.

(03-23-2017 12:14 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Again you pervert the point. I could give a ratt's ass if anyone "cares" about me.

If you could attempt to stick to substance rather than attempting to make matters personal, that could possibly help.

I will admit that you had one post that arguably could be considered as substantive in the past day (this one) that seemed to be substantive, but you have this tendency to devolve (and seem to like to focus) into non-substantive and meaningless attempts at irrelevant personal discussions.

You are the one who makes matters personal. CleanSlate posts a valid question with valid concerns. You reply with calling him crazy? And call it "hard fork FUD". I reply to him with my thoughts and you start posting about ME, when I decided to get out of bitcoin. Does that have anything to do with the hard fork? No it does not. You yourself were the one who took it personal.

Right now bitcoin can handle about 7 transactions a second. Mastercard does that times a hundred every second. A hard fork would solve this problem, increasing the number of transactions per second. This would of course be good for bitcoin. However, a hard fork is dangerous, shit can go wrong and shit can go bad, so I believe that the market would lose confidence before the hard fork is successful. And that is why I, if I had any bitcoins, would sell before the hard fork and the buy back in again after the fork is completed. Therefor I do not think that CleanSlate's post is crazy. In fact I agree with him.

(03-23-2017 12:14 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Again you pervert the point. I could give a ratt's ass if anyone "cares" about me.

So why are you once again informing us about your investment strategies? We already know, see you have told us at least once in the last 100 pages.

Here is something relevant to bitcoin:





Bitcoin's market share in the whole crypto space is at it's all time lowest. And the trend is pointing down.


Source: https://coinmarketcap.com/charts/#btc-percentage

(03-23-2017 12:44 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  

(03-23-2017 12:14 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Again you pervert the point. I could give a ratt's ass if anyone "cares" about me.

If you could attempt to stick to substance rather than attempting to make matters personal, that could possibly help.

I will admit that you had one post that arguably could be considered as substantive in the past day (this one) that seemed to be substantive, but you have this tendency to devolve (and seem to like to focus) into non-substantive and meaningless attempts at irrelevant personal discussions.

You are the one who makes matters personal. CleanSlate posts a valid question with valid concerns. You reply with calling him crazy? And call it "hard fork FUD". I reply to him with my thoughts and you start posting about ME, when I decided to get out of bitcoin. Does that have anything to do with the hard fork? No it does not. You yourself were the one who took it personal.

We can agree to disagree with this point, and I see no reason to rehash what has already been posted or summarizing the significance of such.

(03-23-2017 12:44 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  Right now bitcoin can handle about 7 transactions a second. Mastercard does that times a hundred every second.

O.k. there's some substance here.

Big blockers (and currently hardforkers) frequently attempt to prescribe what they would like bitcoin to be or to become, and the timeline for such.

Bitcoin has value beyond the number of transactions per second, and I presume through time, bitcoin is going to continue to evolve.

At this time, bitcoin still has a lot of value whether it does 7 transactions per second or 1 transaction per hour, and people can make their choices about whether to buy bitcoins or to store bitcoins based on their perception about whether bitcoin gives them present value or whether they believe that bitcoin has a future value or potential for such.

(03-23-2017 12:44 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  A hard fork would solve this problem, increasing the number of transactions per second.

Again. You presume that there is a problem with the current state of bitcoin, and I believe that the supposed "problem" either does not exist or it is overstated, but the supposed "problem" does get a lot of airplay by folks who either do no understand or want to denigrate bitcoin.

(03-23-2017 12:44 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  This would of course be good for bitcoin.

There is no "of course" in bitcoin. We do not know the exact consequences of a hardfork or how it would play out, if it were to occur. Sure, it could be good for bitcoin, but we do not know that for sure, and personally, I believe that the costs of a hardfork would outweigh the benefits. Yet, if a hardfork were to occur, each of us would need to figure out our own strategy regarding how to deal with such an event, if it were to occur.

(03-23-2017 12:44 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  However, a hard fork is dangerous, shit can go wrong and shit can go bad, so I believe that the market would lose confidence before the hard fork is successful.

Maybe we agree on this point, which is that the costs are likely greater than the benefits? Nonetheless, if a hardfork were to occur, then we would just deal with it.

I understand that part of the point that you may be trying to make, here, is that we should not just wait and see, we should figure out a way to compromise in order that a hardfork does not occur. I disagree that there is any need to compromise, and core seems to be on a good path and the cost of compromise would likely be greater than allowing for the hardfork FUD to play out.

(03-23-2017 12:44 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  And that is why I, if I had any bitcoins, would sell before the hard fork and the buy back in again after the fork is completed. Therefor I do not think that CleanSlate's post is crazy. In fact I agree with him.

Apart from your assertion that I was calling CleanSlate crazy, fair enough regarding your providing further clarification regarding what you believe to be a prudent strategy forward for bitcoin holders. I already stated my point of view on this which is largely based on incrementalism - but also an assertion that each guy needs to decide for himself based on his own circumstances and risk tolerance.

(03-23-2017 12:44 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  

(03-23-2017 12:14 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  Again you pervert the point. I could give a ratt's ass if anyone "cares" about me.

So why are you once again informing us about your investment strategies? We already know, see you have told us at least once in the last 100 pages.

There is a variety of reasons that I may either reiterate my trading strategies or respond to topics that might cause me to present my trading strategies to the degree they might be relevant (in my discretion) to making a point or responding to a point, and even my own strategies are not stagnant and they may be tweaked from time to time, based on current market conditions.

(03-23-2017 12:54 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  Here is something relevant to bitcoin:





Bitcoin's market share in the whole crypto space is at it's all time lowest. And the trend is pointing down.


Source: https://coinmarketcap.com/charts/#btc-percentage

What do you mean by, "the trend is pointing down", and even if true about the "trend" how much does a downward trend of bitcoin's share in regards to the total market cap of all cryptos matter to the fundamentals of bitcoin? Bitcoin could have a 10% market share, and still be good, no? Should these matters affect my thinking today, or are you merely trying to pump some other alts as if they were "Bitcoin 2.0?"

Got back from vaca and checked one of my trades from 9 months ago popped me 15 btc from a 4 btc risk today with some altcoin remaining. Some of these altcoins are great ways to get more bitcoins and altcoins at the same time. For this fork, I'll keep my bitcoins in places where I get both. Altcoins are too expensive right now, so it was nice to get some btc from a pop.

I just read the Forbes article about the hard fork and what's driving this possibility.

Also saw my name come up in this thread in the same sentence as "crazy", starting with JJG sperging out on me just because I said I might sell my bitcoins. So I'll bite.

The reason I invested in bitcoin is because I wanted a quick and easy way to diversify out of the US dollar. At least which doesn't involve flying to Singapore or Hong Kong hoping the bank there will let me open an account. Or lugging a few bars of gold and digging a hole, hoping I'll remember where it is and that a new Walmart won't be built on top of it.

To diversify from the US dollar, the other "thing" (currency, digital gold, e-cash, whatever -- I don't care what you call it) has to be at least somewhat stable... or, more importantly, be seen as stable as per investors' faith in it.

This retarded game of chicken between the developers and miners leading to this hard fork absurdity doesn't give the impression that bitcoin is stable enough. I don't have that much money in bitcoin anyway. If I lost it all because BTC goes to 0, it would definitely sting, but it wouldn't affect my life materially. At the same time, I'm not keen having my money in the middle between two sides warring at each other because of ego and butthurt.

That's why I'm pulling out.

Maybe I'll cash out fully. Or maybe I'll switch to ETH... which had already gone through a hard fork and is unlikely to go through it again. Or maybe I'll put half into ETH and keep the other half in cash. Maybe I'll leave one bitcoin in there just in case.

I have 48 hours to decide what to do with it, thanks to the Coinbase waiting period after moving my bitcoins out of the vault into the wallet.

Here comes JJG's 10 page novel of a response in 3... 2... 1...

(03-23-2017 11:50 AM)Satoshi Wrote:  

(03-23-2017 11:06 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  So you come back to this thread on a regular basis because you would like to save RVF guys from themselves?

Does anyone really care about your investments strategies? Anyone who cares about Juan raise a hand!

I do. I don't really follow up on his advice/strategies, but he puts a lot of effort into dispensing information related to his subjective experiences and thoughts on bitcoin. It's valuable, particularly when viewed in appropriate context.

(03-23-2017 06:00 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  I just read the Forbes article about the hard fork and what's driving this possibility.

Also saw my name come up in this thread in the same sentence as "crazy", starting with JJG sperging out on me just because I said I might sell my bitcoins. So I'll bite.

The reason I invested in bitcoin is because I wanted a quick and easy way to diversify out of the US dollar. At least which doesn't involve flying to Singapore or Hong Kong hoping the bank there will let me open an account.

To diversify from the US dollar, the other "thing" (currency, digital gold, e-cash, whatever -- I don't care what you call it) has to be at least somewhat stable... or, more importantly, be seen as stable as per investors' faith in it.

This retarded game of chicken between the developers and miners leading to this hard fork absurdity doesn't give the impression that bitcoin is stable enough. I don't have that much money in bitcoin anyway. If I lost it all because BTC goes to 0, it would definitely sting, but it wouldn't affect my life materially. At the same time, I'm not keen having my money in the middle between two sides warring at each other because of ego and butthurt.

That's why I'm pulling out.

Maybe I'll cash out fully. Or maybe I'll switch to ETH... which had already gone through a hard fork and is unlikely to go through it again. Or maybe I'll put half into ETH and keep the other half in cash. Maybe I'll leave one bitcoin in there just in case.

I have 48 hours to decide what to do with it, thanks to the Coinbase waiting period after moving my bitcoins out of the vault into the wallet.

Here comes JJG's 10 page novel of a response in 3... 2... 1...

You did not really leave me anything to respond to.

Sounds like you already made your decision regarding what you believe is best for you under your circumstances and your considerations about risk and future possibilities (even though concededly there are a lot of unknowns). Furthermore, you provided a lot of decent considerations that you have and why you are in bitcoin in the first place.

Whether I agree with you are not regarding allocations, those tend to be very personal choices... and we can bounce ideas around all that we like on the interwebs, but in the end, each of us will be responsible for our own allocation choices.

I can understand why a holder would want to cash out at this point. More downside is more likely than upside at this point in the immediate term because this dispute and possible hard fork has the potential to lead to lower priced BTC if it occurs.

If I were a "hodler", I would even have second thoughts. Usually, it's just "oh BTC is dying FUD leave it", but now there is the possibility that BTC will not even exist, as it does in its current form.

Sun, I agree that Alts are overpriced. I looked at ETH/XMR/DASH and was like, I'm not buying that sh*t. Yeah they could go up more but buy low sell high is simple but effective. I don't stray from it. Similarly with BTC, although I feel without the hard fork possibility, it has had time to grow so much, taking years to reach previous ATH.

The only Alt I am looking at (don't laugh guys) is Dogecoin. But that has spiked from 15 to 24 satoshis (minor capital flight from BTC). Even at 15 satoshis I was like, maybe at 10 I will bite. Then though the price is so low that the effective spread is 10% (yes TEN) per cent simply because the satoshi cannot be divided further. You buy 10000000 Dogecoins and immediately you can only sell them for 9000000 worth of BTC. Finally Dogecoin looks stable in USD which is great considering its 5% inflation rate but it kinda... looks like its dying a slow and peaceful death.

I can appreciate what you guys are saying about JJG but the ad hominem attacks aren't in the spirit of this board. We should be helping each other make money so we can all travel and bang hot chicks more. I give time to investment considerations and so discuss Cryptos as a potential investor. This is why I appreciate JJG's contributions even if he is clearly bullish in bias. At the same time I don't understand why Satoshi would feel the need to be pretty much the opposite, consistently. It almost feels like JJG bought high and is trying to make his decision come good with words, and maybe Satoshi missed out or sold before a big rise hence FOMO and how much of a bitch that can feel like, whatever the asset.

When discussing BTC and Cryptos in general we should try to help rather than hinder each other, the personal back and forth posts are detrimental to everyone involved.

As I said, Satoshi, you like Alts, I would definitely buy some if I saw some decent prices, but as Sun said I feel they are overpriced. Maybe ETC but that's starting to rise and will probably leave me in the dust before I can verify myself on an exchange to get it. Or Dogecoin if it goes back down to 10 satoshis, all high risk high reward definitely.

JJG maybe post a bit more in the game/travel etc. forums as well, you may own a lot of BTC but it can get unhealthy being too focused on it. This is well intentioned and not intended to sound patronizing though I admit it might (unavoidably) come across as such. That said don't stop posting here as it's good to discuss events in the Crypto sphere especially for newbies to have a place on this forum to find out about it among the sea of (mis)information out there.

Diversification is something that comes to mind here. In the past if I have been overly exposed to a single asset obsessive behavior around it has occurred. It's just not good general practice to dump all or most of your cash or even just more than you are comfortable with into a single (especially very risky) asset. It can fuck up your focus and it can spray you with poon repellent as your mind and body is all tense and nervous from the potential for huge losses that would be devastating. Hardly the best recipe for dates, or just day to day life in general.

(03-23-2017 04:56 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(03-23-2017 04:11 AM)Armogan Wrote:  Completely delusional. Hey guys my wife took half my money in a divorce. But to calculate my net worth you have to take my money and hers.

Again, you seem to be employing a very poor analogy with the marriage thing-a-ma-jiggy, whether you are attempting to respond to what i am saying or whether you are attempting to give attributes to what I am saying.

What if the man had 100% of the net worth before the marraige, after the divorce it gets split into two; 1 for 2. Ever think of that? You have a hard time understanding my analogies because they are derived from your flawed arguments. When I break them down into layman's terms they don't make much sense.

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, but you are the Straw Man argument king. In fact, when people new to the ecosystem come around here and see you post 8 posts all in succession, they may get the impression you know what you are talking about. But after poking around a little bit, its clear you have no idea what you're talking about. You just ramble and post fake news articles that supposedly substantiate your biased opinions.

I'm trying to shed light, so people don't make rash decisions with their money and potentially lose.

Let's look are your glorious track record of recent assertions/actions:

1. The BTC ETF is priced in already. Well, it dropped 20-30% immediately after the decision. You claimed my time frame was too short. Now a few weeks later BTC is down ~17%. - FAIL
3. China does not have overwhelming dominance in BTC mining. Essentially, undermining you're assertion that BTC is truly decentralized. Google it if you are skeptical. - FAIL
2. ETH is a pump-and-dump scheme. JPMorgan, Microsoft, Intel, countless other fortune 500 companies formed an enterprise alliance to explore its long-term benefits. Oh yeah, it has a market cap of ~4billion. - FAIL
3. You bought 1.2 BTC @ 1024. Average cost basis ~1k. At the time of this, BTC is roughly the same. Buy high? Why didn't you buy it sub $150 - FAIL
4. You believe BTC will not hard fork. - Pending. Likely FAIL
5. You still buy drugs with BTC, despite 1 hour+ transaction time and high fees. - EPIC FAIL


The ball don't lie. I won't be continuing this discussion further.

(03-23-2017 09:45 PM)Armogan Wrote:  

(03-23-2017 04:56 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(03-23-2017 04:11 AM)Armogan Wrote:  Completely delusional. Hey guys my wife took half my money in a divorce. But to calculate my net worth you have to take my money and hers.

Again, you seem to be employing a very poor analogy with the marriage thing-a-ma-jiggy, whether you are attempting to respond to what i am saying or whether you are attempting to give attributes to what I am saying.

What if the man had 100% of the net worth before the marraige, after the divorce it gets split into two; 1 for 2. Ever think of that?

No, I must admit that I did not think about that because the fact of the matter remains that your analogy does not fit. It makes little to no sense to attempt to make an inappropriate analogy fit because it is likely going to lead you to bad and inaccurate conclusions.

(03-23-2017 09:45 PM)Armogan Wrote:  You have a hard time understanding my analogies because they are derived from your flawed arguments. When I break them down into layman's terms they don't make much sense.

If you want to talk about more than one analogy, then let me know what your next analogy is. For the moment, I was responding to your stupid ass analogy of divorce.

That does not fit for obvious reasons because a fork is having one thing that started out as one thing evolve into two things.

A divorce is a nulling of a previous contract between two persons (doesn't matter if one person has more status than the other or whatever the fuck. Those previous two persons were not one person during the marriage, even if some laws and societies may fictionalize that to be the case).

(03-23-2017 09:45 PM)Armogan Wrote:  I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, but you are the Straw Man argument king. In fact, when people new to the ecosystem come around here and see you post 8 posts all in succession (sperg much), they may get the impression you know what you are talking about. But after poking around a little bit, its clear you have no idea what you're talking about. You just ramble and post fake news articles that supposed substantiate your biased opinions.

Now you are in the business of protecting other RVF guys?

Guys can take whatever I post with whatever grain of salt that they like, and if they are mislead, then there is not a lot that I would be able to do about that. I post what is my opinion and my interests related to bitcoin and also respond to other posters. You are free to do the same, as long as you remain a member, and maybe if you could restrain from ongoing personal attacks, then that may also help your longevity as a continued member, possibly?

(03-23-2017 09:45 PM)Armogan Wrote:  I'm trying to shed light, so people don't make rash decisions with their money and potentially lose.

Fair enough. But maybe you should realize that your vision of facts and logic does not seem to be any kind of beacon of wisdom, but who knows, maybe some of what you are saying and your ability to back it up will get better? I'm still waiting.

(03-23-2017 09:45 PM)Armogan Wrote:  Let's look are your glorious track record of recent assertions/actions:

1. The BTC ETF is priced in already. Well, it dropped 20-30% immediately after the decision. You claimed my time frame was too short. Now a few weeks later BTC is down ~17%. - FAIL

I stand by my original assertions and characterizations about the "priced in" matter.

(03-23-2017 09:45 PM)Armogan Wrote:  3. China does not have overwhelming dominance in BTC mining. Essentially, undermining you're assertion that BTC is truly decentralized. Google it if you are skeptical. - FAIL

My ongoing assertions continue to be that folks seem to give too much importance to China, and so whether we agree with what constitutes dominance or overwhelming dominance or fear of china may be a matter of degree and weight that each guy can use for himself in determining his own strategies in regards to bitcoin (whether to buy, sell, hold or some other variation).

(03-23-2017 09:45 PM)Armogan Wrote:  2. ETH is a pump-and-dump scheme. It's been backed by JPMorgan, Microsoft, Intel, countless other fortune 500 companies. Oh yeah, it has a market cap of ~4billion. - FAIL

yes, I stand by my assertion that ETH is a pump and dump. I am not sure if I used the word scheme, but it does not really matter too much... because I don't really need to back up my opinion any further in a thread that is about bitcoin or responding to a question (from you) in a thread about alts.

(03-23-2017 09:45 PM)Armogan Wrote:  3. You bought 1.2 BTC @ 1024. Average cost basis ~1k. At the time of this, BTC is roughly the same. Buy high? Why didn't you buy it sub $150 - FAIL

Looks like your selective reading, and it does not matter what my average is or what my performance is. i am entitled to giving my opinion, and frequently I do give some of my particulars in this regard in order to illustrate various points regarding my strategy to buy as the price is going down and to sell as the price is going up.

(03-23-2017 09:45 PM)Armogan Wrote:  4. You believe BTC will not hard fork. - Pending. Likely FAIL

A few days ago (or was it last week?) I said that I place the odds at less than 20%, and I reiterated that prediction a few times. Even today, I still would place the odds at less than 20%.. but really it does not matter too much whether I am correct or not, because this remains an evolving situation... might happen and might not happen. RVF guys are free to assign their own weight in predicting either a hardfork or a price change attributed to that and/or other ongoing bitcoin happenings.

(03-23-2017 09:45 PM)Armogan Wrote:  5. You still buy drugs with BTC, despite 1 hour+ transaction time and high fees. - EPIC FAIL

People use bitcoin for all kinds of reasons, as I have already responded to this point.

(03-23-2017 09:45 PM)Armogan Wrote:  The ball don't lie. I won't be continuing this discussion further.

It's up to you. I think that you have been getting a bit distracted in focusing on me rather than bringing some kind of semblance of meaning to the possible bitcoin conversation.

(03-23-2017 09:12 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  This is why I appreciate JJG's contributions even if he is clearly bullish in bias.

Bullish in bias may be a kind of accurate way, but bullish is my very long term and I believe that I hedge both ways on the short term to such a degree that I believe that my approach takes out some of my bias. In other words, I continually repeat that I am prepared for either price direction because I buy as the price goes down and i sell as the price goes up. Yes, overall my portfolio does better if the price goes up, but that ends up being a long term stance to merely continue to accumulate BTC.


Right now, I am going to have to concede that there seems to be considerable downwards price pressures, and as always, I have difficulties figuring out how far down it might go. I still believe buying in the low $900s would be decent entry points, but it is also possible to have opportunities in the low $800s or lower.

Currently, my preset orders only go down to the upper $600s, but I anticipate that I would still have some cash if prices were to go lower than my preset orders, yet I have a hard time seeing prices going below $600 for any sustainable period of time, except maybe some possible spike.

I know that this sounds like all over the place, but really buying incrementally on the way down may be the better way to ensure that you continue to stock up, rather than attempting to time the bottom with any kind of precision. I understand that other guys work in other ways and maybe some of them can chime in with some precise prediction. Frequently, the problem with the precise predictions seem to be that guys tend make them after the price movements already had happened. hahahahahahaha

(03-23-2017 09:12 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  It almost feels like JJG bought high and is trying to make his decision come good with words,

You get me quite wrong on this point. My words are only sharing ongoing strategies, I am not trying to justify anything. Like I said many times, I started to buy at $1200 in late 2013 and I bought small amounts all the way down to the upper $100s in 2015, and by the end of 2015, my average BTC price was around $500.

I started trading in late 2015 and my average BTC price went down to below $400, so I am not sure what that has to do with buying high (even though I started out at a point that the price was high). My average cost per BTC account for my expenses and even my BTC/$ losses through bad trades, so even though BTC price go up, my average costs per BTC go down and I still continue to hold more coins than I had when I started.

I don't see any desperation in that or attempting to get guys to do anything other than what they feel comfortable doing. I do, nonetheless, believe that I have a fairly solid BTC investment strategy, even though I will concede that sometimes my explanations can become quite long and sometimes, I might be all over the place in regards to various shorter term predictions..

I just dumped my BTC and traded some for Dash and Ether. Both saw great gains and BTC declined. I expect a continued downward trend pending the fork situation. They are now below 70% dominance in the crypto-market.

What is everybody's thoughts on Dash? The near-instant transfer is really appealing.

UPDATE: Sorry, but saw there is already an ALT coin thread.

I like JJG's posts. We don't see eye to every time, but who cares? His insight is interesting. We're all here to help each other. I'd rather make bank than argue anyway.

CleanSlate - I understand. I locked in a 20 BTC gain in fiat and I have no regrets. I got 15 back on a smaller alt, so it's all good. Make bank the way you want.

Skank_Hunt - XMR/ETH/DASH make good protection on a bitcoin decline. I'm permanently in these for this reason and have sold some off, but will keep some for good too in case they moon.

naughtynomad - Most post here. It is really fast, just wish more businesses acept it.