Post: #26

(03-06-2013 06:54 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(03-06-2013 04:08 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  You ain't gonna meet a gmanifesto at a mensa meeting.

Line of the week.

Makes me imagine some custom suited down long haired nerd with thick glasses smoking non-stop and talking about ecstasy wonder gang wars and swooping fly girls.. that would be the Sight of the year!

Post: #27

There's a lot of test she failed though.

The Shoe Tying Test
The Street Smart Test
The Socially Aware Test
The Boner Test

Post: #28

It just means the 12 years old girl has the IQ of a normal 16 years old girl.Nothing spectacular.

IQ over 120 puts an adult in the high 20% of population in western world and is extremely important since it means you will likely pass all the exams for entrance to competitive university faculties.(medicine, law etc).
Of course society counterbalances for the mass effect of IQ since some rich and middle class kids often do not have the IQ required to score well in exams.

So they doubt the results, use minorities as pivots to doubt the results., try to enter prerequisites for university admissions other than exam scores like heritage or social profile, gender, race etc and try to actively influence the exam process so that their ofsprings get actually admitted.
Not sth that is not taken notice of . Actually there has been a balance till recently when middle and high class violence and greed met a heafty opposition in Greece and the crisis started in heavy swing a crisis that cannot be resolved since it regards the basic elements of social contract. (which is now broken).

Post: #29

Western countries make large use of the brain drain.If for example in Greece there are 100000 people with IQs over 120 they try to bring them to their countries to artificially increase the intelligence of their population and balance for their low fertility rates.This means that countries like Greece are in constant disadvantage since the brightest always leave.It is like teams in big leagues which collect every worthy player from the low leagues leaving them in constant second class status.
Now Germany has the opportunity for a large scale brain drain from southern Europe to work for the German hegemony and Merkel has given the stigma easening all the procedure for immigration of specialized folks to Germany.(she is damn smart and Schäuble also he is a real fox).

Post: #30

(03-06-2013 04:08 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  ...

As for the IQ system, it was designed to accurately detect low intelligence, it's not designed to accurately detect high intelligence. I even started working on a powerpoint presentation that would teach one how to rapidly decipher the Ravan's progressive matrix so that one could score artificially high on it and get into mensa, it's on hold at the moment but the principle remains: those IQ tests can be gamed, which puts doubt on their reliability.

Also note that ultra-high IQ has up to this point not been shown to correlate with success. Beyond a certain point it appears that a high IQ can even be debilitating.

If I were you I'd consider rejoining Mensa, or ideally one of the other more selective HiQ societies, and then use this membership, and the "cheating" strategies you developed, to develop a consulting business aimed at people wanting join ultra high IQ societies. It's obviously a tiny niche, but there are people who really, really want to get into groups like Prometheus. Say a one to two week full time in person (one on one) consultation. They pay airfare, accommodation and consulting fee. You earn some bucks and see the world.

As for the OP. The girl is too young for the public to come to any conclusions yet. You'd have to test her again when she is at least 16. The whole mental age/ chronological age x 100 formula is not suitable. You get ridiculous results.

In any event having a high IQ definitely doesn't make this girl, or anyone else, a genius. Genius = High IQ (99.9% of the time) + originality/creativity + incredible passion + hard work + (maybe) luck. If only high IQ was the same as genius. The world would be a much better place. Unfortunately only a very small percentage of people with high IQ are geniuses.

Post: #31

That chart breaking down the scores does not address 70-89 or 111-129.

There's probably a lot more in 70-89 and they didn't want to point that out, could upset the average person.

Post: #32

I don't give a sh!t what scores you got on your IQ, SAT, GPA, etc. Tell me what you've done and what you are planning on doing then we'll talk.

I've seen a lot of book smart people go through school on cruise control to only get dumped off of the educational conveyor belt and not find any work.

I'll say this ambition > raw smarts. You can be ungodly smart, but if you don't have the energy to do anything or try anything you're not going anywhere.

Intelligence is like gasoline. Ambition is a lighter. If you have nothing to start the fire then what is the point? You're just as useless as some Cletus and his 9 kids from three different women, except Cletus can at least get it on. I doubt the high IQ kid can.

Post: #33

(03-06-2013 03:46 PM)le prince perdu Wrote:  A 12 year old girl just achieved the highest possible score of 162 on the Mensa IQ test.

Here

She is also ahead of Hawking and others

Is it a proof that the IQ system is useless?

Can a 12 year old really be smarter than men who have revolutionize the world?

So what.

Christopher Michael Langan known as America's Smartest Man owns and operates a ranch and his claim to fame is winning at a game show.

Post: #34

Since when is an IQ of 162 amazingly high?

Go to the Mathematics departments at Harvard, Princeton, Berkeley, and you find people with IQ's of 180-200. Yes, it's hard to measure IQ accurately above 140. Yes, IQ is a sort of weighted average of many different scores, and should not be taken too seriously.

Haven't you heard of William James Sidis? The fim Good Will Hunting is based on him. Sidis may have been the smartest human who ever lived, and his life was tragic nonetheless.

Post: #35

(10-02-2013 05:23 AM)Icarus Wrote:  Since when is an IQ of 162 amazingly high?

Go to the Mathematics departments at Harvard, Princeton, Berkeley, and you find people with IQ's of 180-200. Yes, it's hard to measure IQ accurately above 140. Yes, IQ is a sort of weighted average of many different scores, and should not be taken too seriously.

Haven't you heard of William James Sidis? The fim Good Will Hunting is based on him. Sidis may have been the smartest human who ever lived, and his life was tragic nonetheless.

Not all IQ tests use the same system, or scale. The standard IQ test used in the UK (can't remember what it's called) has a ceiling of 162, but there are others that scale differently.

Personally, I don't see the big deal with this story; one of my best friends also hit the ceiling of 162 when he was tested at around 8 or 9 years old. Hell, I scored 156 when I was 5, does that mean I could understand quantum mechanics? Fuck no, tying my own shoe laces was at the top of my list of intellectual accomplishments.

As a side note, most extremely high intelligence children severely under achieve. The education system is set up to cater for the average child's needs, which means most high intelligence children are never stretched or forced to exert themselves. They tend to lose interest, and often develop behavioural problems. Towards the end of school/the beginning of college, they simply don't have the discipline or focus to keep up with the workload when suddenly raw intelligence isn't enough to cruise through exams.

Post: #36

^^ Yup.

They need to revamp the entire education system.

All from scratch. Trash the Department of Education, all the Board of Educations in the local municipalities, etc.

Have it rewritten completely.

This young man's parents were smart enough to help their child out so he could actually progress in his life.





He'll have a Master's in Comp Sci by 17.

Post: #37

NY Digital Wrote:This young man's parents were smart enough to help their child out so he could actually progress in his life.





He'll have a Master's in Comp Sci by 17.

That kid needs to put away the crochetting and lift some weights. He's a walking stickman.

Post: #38

(03-07-2013 10:32 AM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  ...but there are people who really, really want to get into groups like Prometheus.

The idea of a high IQ social group mystifies me. Smart people's clubs that offer much more tangible benefits already exist. They are called Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Cambridge, and Caltech. To me people who beat their chests about their high IQs seem like they're trying to overcompensate for something. I've known a lot of really smart people, and never once heard any of them mention an IQ score or MENSA.

Post: #39

(10-02-2013 10:19 AM)El_Superbeasto Wrote:  The idea of a high IQ social group mystifies me. (...) I've known a lot of really smart people, and never once heard any of them mention an IQ score or MENSA.

MENSA is essentially a meat market for socially awkward people. A bit like CouchSurfing, but people on CS claim that they're "open-minded", not high-IQ.

Post: #40

(10-02-2013 10:28 AM)Icarus Wrote:  

(10-02-2013 10:19 AM)El_Superbeasto Wrote:  The idea of a high IQ social group mystifies me. (...) I've known a lot of really smart people, and never once heard any of them mention an IQ score or MENSA.

MENSA is essentially a meat market for socially awkward people. A bit like CouchSurfing, but people on CS claim that they're "open-minded", not high-IQ.

This. I think it's also a place for people with intellectual insecurity; people who build too much of their identity out of how smart they are, usually because they don't have anything else remarkable to build an identity out of, and/or they lack social skills. Skeptics' societies always seemed like this too - everyone on the damn planet is skeptical of other people's beliefs, but these people somehow make an identity out of it.

Post: #41

(10-02-2013 10:19 AM)El_Superbeasto Wrote:  

(03-07-2013 10:32 AM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  ...but there are people who really, really want to get into groups like Prometheus.

The idea of a high IQ social group mystifies me. Smart people's clubs that offer much more tangible benefits already exist. They are called Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Cambridge, and Caltech. To me people who beat their chests about their high IQs seem like they're trying to overcompensate for something. I've known a lot of really smart people, and never once heard any of them mention an IQ score or MENSA.

Yes, you are right, it's probably better for people to meet their peers through other outlets like work and academia. More natural. I guess the thing is, though, that each individual persons life path is different. It's quite possible for someone to have a very high IQ, but not be at an Ivy, or in a high powered , intellectually demanding work environment. There can be many reasons for this, and not all of them are related to poor social skills or the like.

I think it's probably true to say that most people in high IQ societies do not typically have real life achievements to match. But so what? What does it matter that some high IQ people get together and form clubs? There are clubs for everything, why not high IQ? I mean, consider Usain Bolt. Nobody asks him why he runs pretty much exclusively against other athletes who are also fcuk'ing fast. Running fast is something he's into and is good at so it's only natural he will seek out others who are also fast. It doesn't mean that it is the only dimension to his life, or that he is a "speedist" bigot. It's just a part of what he is.


Also, I think the insecurity cuts both ways. High IQ underachievers are often insecure about their lack of achievement, and typical IQ people who give it some thought are sometimes insecure because they secretly(?) believe that IQ is more important than it actually is.

Post: #42

Gonna' post this again. This is how your average Brit feels about MENSA and IQ tests.

Post: #43

The thing about tests is this. You are chasing somebody else's bone.

Find your own bone to chase. Much harder and much more interesting.

Post: #44

^^^ Cardguy

Not sure that people joining high IQ clubs are principally looking for external validation. It's not like most tell random people they meet about being a member. And as the video shows most people don't have a high opinion of the societies anyway. More likely they are looking for self validation (since they feel they are underachievers), or to extend their social networks. Like I said above, it would be better to do this naturally, but the world isn't perfect. Mitchell is saying something like "If you're so smart you should be at Cambridge working with Stephen Hawking, instead of going to a Mensa meeting". Sure, but plenty of people are unable to rise to these levels and joining a high IQ society is their best shot of meeting "like minded" people. Criticizing this seems a little childish. By definition only a small number of people can be at the top, at Oxford, work for the Google development team etc. The existence if high IQ societies simply reflects the market realities that there are high IQ people who do not move in elite intellectual circles naturally.

Post: #45

(10-02-2013 12:17 PM)cardguy Wrote:  The thing about tests is this. You are chasing somebody else's bone.

Find your own bone to chase. Much harder and much more interesting.

Absolutely.

The high IQ societies would do their members a great service by ignoring IQ and all the testing once someone is a member and concentrating their focus on the other 9,10, however many factors you need in addition to IQ to turn a high IQ person into a bona-fide genius.

Post: #46

Well - no matter how smart you are - it takes alot of work to go to a top university. So - I can see this as being a lazy way to access such circles.

But then again - the only thing that IQ tests measure is your ability to do IQ tests. Any link between those scores and IQ are conjecture.

And any link between IQ and intelligence is conjecture as well since intelligence is a difficult thing to pin down.

It is like having a beauty contest where you only measure women's breasts and hips. There may be some correlation between that and a woman's beauty - but it is unlikely that the girl with the best 'score' would also happen to be the girl who most people would agree is the most beautiful. You can't distill something like that to a single number.

Post: #47

(10-02-2013 12:40 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Well - no matter how smart you are - it takes alot of work to go to a top university. So - I can see this as being a lazy way to access such circles.

But then again - the only thing that IQ tests measure is your ability to do IQ tests. Any link between those scores and IQ are conjecture.

And any link between IQ and intelligence is conjecture as well since intelligence is a difficult thing to pin down.

It is like having a beauty contest where you only measure women's breasts and hips. There may be some correlation between that and a woman's beauty - but it is unlikely that the girl with the best 'score' would also happen to be the girl who most people would agree is the most beautiful. You can't distill something like that to a single number.

Well, there are lots of views on what exactly IQ tests measure, so it's difficult to state what the consensus is. There isn't a consensus. Being mired in politics doesn't help either. For what it's worth I think they are an imperfect, but definitively not useless, measure of a real set of characteristics we define as "intelligence".

Laziness could indeed be a factor in high IQ underachievement. But my attitude is still "So what?" There are lazy people, there are hard working people. I don't see the harm of setting up clubs on the basis of things like IQ, even if being lazy may be a very common trait of members. It's not like being a member gives you much, or really any, power in and of itself. You'd have to earn that very much on the outside.

Post: #48

(10-02-2013 07:28 AM)NY Digital Wrote:  ^^ Yup.

They need to revamp the entire education system.

All from scratch. Trash the Department of Education, all the Board of Educations in the local municipalities, etc.

Have it rewritten completely.

This young man's parents were smart enough to help their child out so he could actually progress in his life.





He'll have a Master's in Comp Sci by 17.

Take this guy when he turns 18, and have learn game for a couple of years and he'll be a beast and dominate at life.

The problem with very intelligent people(in the traditional sense) is that they tend to have bad social skills and no street smarts. Those are huge parts of success. The deeper I get into business the more I realize that a huge part of business is interpersonal skills and the ability to read people and connect with them. IMO game is probably the best way for an intelligent nerd to make himself into a beast.

Post: #49

(10-02-2013 01:00 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  I don't see the harm of setting up clubs on the basis of things like IQ, even if being lazy may be a very common trait of members. It's not like being a member gives you much, or really any, power in and of itself. You'd have to earn that very much on the outside.

I don't think anyone's suggesting these clubs shouldn't exist, just that they can be a marker for other things like asperger's syndrome and poor social skills, so the value of joining them is dubious. For the record, once upon a time REDACTED

(10-02-2013 01:04 PM)torontokid Wrote:  The problem with very intelligent people(in the traditional sense) is that they tend to have bad social skills and no street smarts.

There are several reasons for that. A lot of gifted people have a combination of asperger's syndrome and ADHD, plus whatever drugs they get pumped full of for having the above. Another factor is that when they are very young, they often don't relate to their peers and instead socialise primarily with adults, isolating themselves from children their own age. Adult conversation might be more mentally challenging for them, but they miss out on the kind of peer socialising that teaches you how to make small talk, how to have a laugh with mates, how to be fun to be around.

The thing is, I think high intelligence children are in many cases the best equipped to learn social skills, but it's very easy for misanthropy and isolation to take root if they build their identity too much around their intellect. "I don't understand other people" becomes "other people don't understand me, I'm too far above them" and arrogance becomes a way to rationalise not learning the basic social skills needed to function as a well rounded human being. In a way, it's the same defence mechanism that makes sexless "nice guys" so resistant to the red pill. I mean, look at that kid in the video, saying how he doesn't want a girlfriend, it's a waste of time. It's pure rationalisation, because deep down he knows he doesn't have the tools to get a girlfriend. You can hear from the lack of intonation in his voice when he talks that he doesn't interact with people enough - I had the same problem after isolating myself for an extended period, which is why I think groups like Mensa can be counter-productive.

Post: #50

Surprised no on has mentioned the ramifications of this for the standard issue IRT.

If there is a new generation of high cognitive ability superhuman Indian girls, they may finally be able to devise a new way to prevent the random gang-rapage that occurs in India.

I predict that the IRT population on RVF will increase exponentially in the next few years.