Post: #1

I have ZERO interest in minimalism, the only reason that I live a minimalist lifestyle now is because I can't afford anything.

When I was being conceived, I doubt my father said to himself "I hope in 30 years my son will strive to own nothing"

Or when my grandfather came back from WWII, I doubt he said "Thank god we defended our great nation from the Japanese. Now I wish that one day, my grandchildren will own jack shit"

Fuck that. That's a cope out on hard work. I would rather MAN UP and try to earn more income.

Right now I have a $90 smart fone from Boost Mobile that I pay $40 cash a month for, I still drive my paid off 2005 Nissan Xterra, and I share a $1500 2 bedroom apartment.

Do I want a boat? YES
Do I want a Ferrari? YES
Do I want to drink wine from a golden chalice? YES

I'm not sleeping in an RV, wearing the same 2 pairs of socks, or doing calisthenics outside.

Will I be depressed if I never become rich? NO. But I'd like to make an good honest effort in improving my life while I still can.


Power out!

Post: #2

Lol. I feel the same way sometimes; I'm a minimalist, but not really by choice. If I had a boat, Ferrari, and a bunch of precious metal lying around to make me look and feel like the fucking man, I wouldn't hate it. That's for sure.

Post: #3

I try to live a pretty minimalist life or at least not materialistic. What I buy is quality and I have no problems spending money on stuff I really want.

Its the people that buy crap for the purpose of just buying it. something gets used once if that and thrown in a closet to be sold at a garage sale or tossed out later.

I'm a minimalist so I have money to travel and buy nice things that I actually use as well as to invest and buy nicer things in the future.

Post: #4

I would reverse this thinking to "maximization".

Ex: if you are a deca millionaire you should be running nothing but high end stuff all day and running as much status as possible to create large harems of girls.

If you are making $50K a year, going into debt for a "pussy magnet" car you are a dumbass.

I like to think of money as "how can I efficiently spend it for maximum results". This is why I absolutely love the following things:

1. Weightlifting like a monster = cost of clothing comes down because you walk around in a fitted sweater or v-neck
2. Dancing venues where drinks are strong+cheap. Most guys who are good dancers don't go to the grimey places so you can sit thee and pick off the only cute girls at the venue cost? $20.
3. Studio apartments, central location is key, a studio helps because it is already set up for sex. Hate suburbs and homes, big cities only, people get hammered and logistics better be good.
4. Alcohol and drugs = only when picking up girls or going on dates. Drinking at home with no pussy set up is a waste of health and money.
5. Cooking at home 80% of the time. Again unless you are rich there is no value in "restaurant game". So you should be eating tons of organic only vegetables and fruits. Most restaurants, even the expensive ones, are awful for you health wise

That's about it, not about "minimalism" it's about "maximizing" all of your cash. "Rich" just means happy with your life and do not have to work if you don't need to.

America is one of the best damn places in the world to acquire assets, so remember that. Combined with game + slutty girls, the choice should be to Aquire a lot of capital.

Its not about the cheapest way to get laid, it's about the most efficient way to get laid

Post: #5

I quite like things that allow me to have fun, but I don't necessarily want to own them.

I think a good way to live is minimalistic in terms of posessions, but rich in experiences. It's fine to blow tons of money on shit that isn't necessarily important, but will enrich your life overall. For example, driving a Ferrari down a winding mountain would be incredible. Having that Ferrari sitting stagnant in your garage or a parking lot while you're plodding away at work? Not so much. Once you get to a point where money is no longer an issue and you have so much expendable money that you can afford to own such things, purely for the convenience, that's a different story. Until then, though, owning that kind of shit yourself isn't really something I'd personally go for. If I want the experience I'll just rent the car or boat out, and save myself the pain of having an expensive loan on something I never needed in the first place

Post: #6

(02-23-2013 10:23 AM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  I have ZERO interest in minimalism, the only reason that I live a minimalist lifestyle now is because I can't afford anything.

When I was being conceived, I doubt my father said to himself "I hope in 30 years my son will strive to own nothing"

Or when my grandfather came back from WWII, I doubt he said "Thank god we defended our great nation from the Japanese. Now I wish that one day, my grandchildren will own jack shit"

Fuck that. That's a cope out on hard work. I would rather MAN UP and try to earn more income.

Right now I have a $90 smart fone from Boost Mobile that I pay $40 cash a month for, I still drive my paid off 2005 Nissan Xterra, and I share a $1500 2 bedroom apartment.

Do I want a boat? YES
Do I want a Ferrari? YES
Do I want to drink wine from a golden chalice? YES

I'm not sleeping in an RV, wearing the same 2 pairs of socks, or doing calisthenics outside.

Will I be depressed if I never become rich? NO. But I'd like to make an good honest effort in improving my life while I still can.


Power out!

Minimalism is fucking retarded. It's usually poor liberal guys who embrace it out of necessity.

I love west coasts reply as well - that's sort of my philosophy as well, mate

Post: #7

You're confusing minimalism with frugalism, methinks.

Post: #8

My take on minimalism is to not waste money chasing status goods. And to only buy stuff you will actually use and enjoy. Also - I love throwing shit away. If I haven't used something in a year - it goes in the bin. I read hundreds of books a year - and most of them end up getting thrown out as well. I find life is too short to re-read books (with a few exceptions).

But the issue of Conspicuous Consumption is an intereresting one. Paradoxically it opens the way for a new type of tax which (in theory) everybody would support and which nobody would be disadvantaged by.

Robert Frank gives the details here. It is a really ingenious idea:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/busine...alink&_r=0

Post: #9

(02-23-2013 10:23 AM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  I have ZERO interest in minimalism, the only reason that I live a minimalist lifestyle now is because I can't afford anything.

When I was being conceived, I doubt my father said to himself "I hope in 30 years my son will strive to own nothing"

Or when my grandfather came back from WWII, I doubt he said "Thank god we defended our great nation from the Japanese. Now I wish that one day, my grandchildren will own jack shit"

Fuck that. That's a cope out on hard work. I would rather MAN UP and try to earn more income.

Right now I have a $90 smart fone from Boost Mobile that I pay $40 cash a month for, I still drive my paid off 2005 Nissan Xterra, and I share a $1500 2 bedroom apartment.

Do I want a boat? YES
Do I want a Ferrari? YES
Do I want to drink wine from a golden chalice? YES

I'm not sleeping in an RV, wearing the same 2 pairs of socks, or doing calisthenics outside.

Will I be depressed if I never become rich? NO. But I'd like to make an good honest effort in improving my life while I still can.


Power out!

You only want those things because you don't have them. I don't own a boat, Ferrari, or a golden chalice (though I do have a few thousand dollars worth of wine) but I do know that once you get what you want, it's onto the next bigger, shinier toy. This isn't something I tell myself to be okay with the fact that I don't own a 150K sports car; this is something I've learned over the years as I've acquired nicer shit.

There is a strong lesson in minimalism. It's okay to desire material wealth as long as you don't *attach* yourself to it. Attachment is the key word here. Yes, you should strive to improve your station in life and be the biggest man on campus, but at the same time don't attach yourself to false pursuits.

Post: #10

The above reminds me of a story I heard about Joseph Heller.

He was at a party and introduced to a billionaire. Later on a friend told him that the billionaire had earned more money in 6 months than Heller had from all of his books.

Heller responded - 'That might be so. But I have something the billionaire will never have.'

'What is that?' asked the friend.

'Enough.'

Post: #11

(02-23-2013 11:52 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  2. Dancing venues where drinks are strong+cheap. Most guys who are good dancers don't go to the grimey places so you can sit thee and pick off the only cute girls at the venue cost? $20.

What is an example of this kind of place? I am not sure I follow you.

Quote:5. Cooking at home 80% of the time. Again unless you are rich there is no value in "restaurant game". So you should be eating tons of organic only vegetables and fruits. Most restaurants, even the expensive ones, are awful for you health wise

I have to disagree with you here.

Restaurant Game is a goldmine because almost every guy on earth thinks exactly like you.

And I don't think some Hamachi and Toro slabs are all that bad for you.

Post: #12

It's just about recognizing what actually makes you happy. For most people, it ends up not being material things, but the quality of their relationships with friends and family and their personal accomplishments. There's nothing inherently wrong with material wealth as long as it does not cloud your perspective on where true personal wealth and happiness is derived.

I am reminded of the story of Croesus and Solon, summarized by this guy here: http://andreaskluth.org/2009/05/15/croes...happiness/

Quote:1) Croesus the happy

In the sixth century BCE there was a king named Croesus in Lydia (today’s Turkey). He was so rich that we still today say “rich as Croesus”. But he always wanted confirmation from others that he was indeed the richest, the most successful, the happiest man alive. Why would he need confirmation? One wonders. But people always do.

As it happened, Solon, the man who had given the Athenians their laws and who was the wisest man in Greece at the time, came for a visit. This was exactly the sort of man Croesus wanted to impress.

I paraphrase (the text is here):

Croesus: ‘Welcome Solon. You’re the wisest man in Greece. I’ve heard so much about you. Please take a tour of my palace and look at all the gold and silver, the women and slaves and fruit, and all my splendor. Isn’t it wonderful? Tell me: who is the happiest man in the world?’

Solon: ‘Tellus of Athens, sire.”

Croesus: [Blank look. Silence.] ‘Sorry, but… Who?’

Solon: ‘Tellus, sire. He was this guy who lived when his country was prosperous, and he had two sons and some grandchildren.’

Croesus [still uncomprehending]: ‘Right. So what? What does that have to do with anything?’

Solon: ‘Well, you see, he died on the battlefield, and the Athenians gave him a proper funeral. So he died knowing that everything was good in his life.’

Croesus [rather miffed, irritable]: ‘Well never mind. Who is the second happiest man in the world?’ [smiles and nods, leans forward]

Solon: ‘Cleobis and Bito.’

Croesus [jumpy, shocked]: ‘Who the hell are Cleovice and Vico?’

Solon: ‘Cleobis and Bito, sire. They were these two young lads in Argos. Their mom wanted to go to a festival but couldn’t find any oxen to pull her cart. So the two sons put the yoke on their own necks and pulled the cart to give their mother a ride. The whole town was watching and everybody loved them for it. Their mom was really proud. Later that night, both her sons fell asleep and never woke up. What a wonderful way to die.’

Croesus: ‘You’re supposed to be a wise man, Solon! What is this gibberish you’re talking? I asked you who the happiest man in the world is. Look around, for god’s sake. Look at me! What about me?’

Solon: ‘You? How would I know? You’re doing well right now. But wealth and success don’t last. And what comes next, nobody knows. I will know whether you were successful and happy after you die.’

Croesus thought Solon was a senile idiot and sent him home. Then he went back to enjoying his life.

2) Croesus the miserable

He fell from happiness in stages.

It started with a bad dream. In it, one of his two sons, his favorite, was killed by an iron weapon. Croesus immediately banned all iron weapons and tools from his palace. But his son soon got bored and went with his friends into the woods for a boar hunt. They cornered the boar and one man hurled a spear. It missed the boar and killed the prince. Croesus was devastated.

But he still had his kingdom, his wealth and another son, even though that son was mute. Even so, that was a lot to be happy about.

At this time, Persia was a rising empire in the east, and Croesus wanted to know his future. So he asked the oracle of Apollo some questions:

Will my surviving son ever speak? Answer: ‘You will rue the day when he speaks.’
Should I launch a preemptive war against the Persians? Answer: ‘If you march, a great kingdom will be destroyed.’
How long will I rule? Answer: ‘Until a mule rules over Persia.’

Apollo, you see, always said enough to be interesting and not enough to be helpful. (Ask Oedipus.) Croesus couldn’t figure out the bit about his son at all. He loved the second answer, since he was apparently fated to destroy the Persian kingdom. And he liked the third answer, since the Persians, as far as he knew, did not obey mules.

Off he went to war. The Persians won and stormed Croesus’ city, Sardis. A great kingdom was destroyed.

As the Persian soldiers were running through the streets to slaughter, Croesus took his son by the hand and ran for his life. One Persian grabbed Croesus and flashed his blade. Suddenly the mute boy screamed: “Do not kill him, for this is Croesus, king of the Lydians.” You will rue the day when he speaks.

So Cyrus, the Persian ruler, had Croesus, his defeated enemy, brought before him. Cyrus was half Mede, half Persian–a mutt. A mule.

A pyre was built, and Cyrus took his throne to watch the spectacle. Croesus was about to be burnt alive. The flames were already licking his feet.

3) Croesus the wise

Death was near, and Croesus suddenly thought of Solon. He started moaning:

“Solon, Solon, Solon!” “Solon, Solon, Solon!”

Cyrus sat up. What was this man muttering? This was not the name of a god. Just then it started raining. Cyrus looked up. Whatever Croesus was muttering seemed to be effective.

“Stop the fire. Bring him down. I want to ask him a question!”

Croesus was brought before Cyrus.

Cyrus: “Tell me what you were moaning.”

Croesus: “Solon, sire. He was a man who offered me wisdom and I spurned it.”

Cyrus: “What wisdom is that?”

Croesus: “He said to count nobody happy until the end is known.“

Cyrus [thoughtful, empathetic, reflective]: “You may have spurned Solon then, but you seem to be a wise man now. I would be foolish to be the one spurning the wisdom now. I will let you live. I want you to be my adviser.”

Post: #13

(02-23-2013 10:23 AM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  I have ZERO interest in minimalism, the only reason that I live a minimalist lifestyle now is because I can't afford anything.

When I was being conceived, I doubt my father said to himself "I hope in 30 years my son will strive to own nothing"

Or when my grandfather came back from WWII, I doubt he said "Thank god we defended our great nation from the Japanese. Now I wish that one day, my grandchildren will own jack shit"

Fuck that. That's a cope out on hard work. I would rather MAN UP and try to earn more income.

Right now I have a $90 smart fone from Boost Mobile that I pay $40 cash a month for, I still drive my paid off 2005 Nissan Xterra, and I share a $1500 2 bedroom apartment.

Do I want a boat? YES
Do I want a Ferrari? YES
Do I want to drink wine from a golden chalice? YES

I'm not sleeping in an RV, wearing the same 2 pairs of socks, or doing calisthenics outside.

Will I be depressed if I never become rich? NO. But I'd like to make an good honest effort in improving my life while I still can.


Power out!

But beware of hedonic treadmill aka adaptation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

Post: #14

(02-23-2013 01:26 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(02-23-2013 11:52 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  2. Dancing venues where drinks are strong+cheap. Most guys who are good dancers don't go to the grimey places so you can sit thee and pick off the only cute girls at the venue cost? $20.

What is an example of this kind of place? I am not sure I follow you.

Quote:5. Cooking at home 80% of the time. Again unless you are rich there is no value in "restaurant game". So you should be eating tons of organic only vegetables and fruits. Most restaurants, even the expensive ones, are awful for you health wise

I have to disagree with you here.

Restaurant Game is a goldmine because almost every guy on earth thinks exactly like you.

And I don't think some Hamachi and Toro slabs are all that bad for you.

No where am I saying restaurant game doesn't work it does. You can run that shit with ease at a place like smith's in NYC. Problem is for **most** guys it's a shitty return on pussy activity. At the gym will explain opinion later.

Post: #15

Why do you need to be happy? Men aren't supposed to be happy, I haven't been happy since 3rd grade.

Do you think cavemen were happy when they had to start a fire in the freezing cold?
Do you think George Washington was happy freezing his balls off in a small boat crossing the Delaware river?

A Man aren't supposed to be happy, a Man takes care of business...

I only have sporadic happiness like when:

A) I get laid
B) when i win with a scratch off lottery ticket
C) I do good in the gym
D) Nice weather outside

The other problem I have with this "minimalism" theory, is that I feel at some point you are either being supported by your parents or the Gov't. When it comes to health insurance I KNOW it is the government, because it's expensive. And even though you don't need it now, at some point between now and 80 you are going to stick the government with some big ass bill.

Post: #16

(02-23-2013 02:18 PM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  Why do you need to be happy? Men aren't supposed to be happy, I haven't been happy since 3rd grade.

I'm sorry to hear that. Duty is important, of course, and much of life isn't happy, but I can't disagree more with your statement that we aren't supposed to be happy. In the end, nothing else really matters.

As to the minimalism, also disagree heavily. I'm 25, make a lower-range six figures, don't own a car, prepay everything, and all my worldly belongings could fit in two suitcases. I could clear this room in 20 minutes flat, walk out the door, and never look back.

The stuff you own ends up owning you.

If I were a deca-millionaire would I buy a bunch of expensive toys? Maybe, maybe not.

I came to realize it's experiences that are worth paying for. Not owning a lot of stuff makes me happy. To each their own, of course.

Post: #17

Quote:As to the minimalism, also disagree heavily. I'm 25, make a lower-range six figures, don't own a car, prepay everything, and all my worldly belongings could fit in two suitcases. I could clear this room in 20 minutes flat, walk out the door, and never look back.

The stuff you own ends up owning you.

If I were a deca-millionaire would I buy a bunch of expensive toys? Maybe, maybe not.

Yeah the key is to do a real cost-benefit analysis that covers more than just the cash you spend. How much spare capacity in your life do you have to accommodate this new thing? Capacity is time, money, mental, physical, and space.

For example, a paperback.

Time: How much of your life must you devote to the book to appreciate it? (48 hours)
Money: Can you afford maintenance costs? (monetary maintenance for a paperback is minimal)
Mental: Does reading this book wind up occupying space on a mental to-do list? (A little bit)
Physical: Does taking care of the book require any physical labor? (Yes, a little: you have to move it to dust around it. You have to carry it with you if you move to a new home.)
Space: Do you have any room to store this thing? (A paperback takes up physical space on a bookshelf or a box in your closet)

10 years ago I discovered I was buying books and then not reading them. They were accumulating space in my apartment and not providing me any value whatsoever. That was my first introduction to the value of minimalism. Did I stop buying books altogether? Did I stop reading entirely? No and no. But I became much more selective and careful about books I actually was willing to purchase and thought about more than whether I could afford the purchase price.

Post: #18

Efficient "minimalist" dance venues:
So in terms of dance places what I'm referring to is places with HEAVY base music. If its not about grinding and getting fucked up, you're in the wrong spot. This is why Pianos is the place to go in NYC and pretty much the entire LES if you're smart. Here's the rub... you can't be out of shape. Tangent on what i mean by this at the end of the post The whole point of grinding type places is the girl rubs her hands all over you down your shirt, up your back she is basically all up in your grill as soon as you get her physically interested in you. Then if you know how to dance you'll get comments like "i'm so attracted to you i can't focus" thats when you're doing it right. If you are out of shape you will get owned like a mother fucker. Cost of these places is something like a $5 cover and $5 for a shot and chaser.

Restaurant game rant:
If you are rich go for it. The cost of high end game again is cash flow. If you're rich it doesn't matter. Rich = I can blow $100 for a new prospect or two and not care. If you flow this through 10 days thats a grand. So 10-20 solid leads better be worth 1,000 dollars for you. That's fine if you're rolling in dough. The max i'm willing to spend on a new lead is $5. That's it because I'm far from rich after running the math.

Average guys cannot possibly rationalize dropping $1K a month on eating out if you get 10-20 leads and only make $5-10K a month. That's a waste of cash. 10-20% of your income for one or two bangs? Fuck it. Just go to whole foods and day game and make your own food. If you slice down 20% of monthly income? In two to four years you're already covering all of your food expenses with investment income. That's literally what happened to my situation, i cut the cord and interest income covers all food/alcohol expenses for the entire year now and I have ZERO complaints about my sex life.

So basically I think average guys are better off finding cheap ways to pull girls. If you have a real long-term mindset that is. The cheapest way is outlined above IMHO.

1. Ideal body "shape/figure" = years of hard work
2. Grinding type dance venues = cheap $25 a night 4-5 leads.
3. Day game when you have time.
4. Chase capital, chase capital, chase capital
5. Run compounding numbers in your head.... Chase capital

The more you rely on the "stuff" you have to get a girl the more you're forced to rely on.... more shit you don't need. This is a failure mindset long-term for most guys.

Finally that is a bad mindset Captain. If you can't be happy with who you are today, you're not playing the game of life correctly. It sounds like you're putting in 100% of your effort every day to get more money and more girls, that's all you should ask of yourself, you should be happy. Every day.

Enjoy the Grind it is the only thing that will guarantee improvement, if you don't enjoy grinding you don't get it yet.

"Being fit rant"
Before I get trollled for being "skinny", in shape has nothing to do with "being a big dude" if you're trying to impress other men go for it, could give two shits. The real game is about proportions. I'm not interested in being the hulk, i'm interested in turning my body into the golden ratios so women look at you and say "wow he has a nice body" what does that really mean? "He has a nice FIGURE". Men struggle with this concept the most because all we do is think in terms of "size" double D's, C's B's.... "big ass". Thats not how women look at men. Women look for shape. So your goal in weight lifting is to create a good looking figure. This is no different than how "fit clothing" is the most important it is because women see how it "shapes" your body. So your goal in weight lifting isnt to become a "beast" its to get the golden ratios on every single portion of your body from biceps size to neck size to chest to waist. End rant.

Post: #19

@Westcoast Where is Pianos? Never been there. Was supposed to hit up midtown 2night, but my wingmen are all punking out because of the rain.

I guess I should rephrase, I don't desire to be materialist, but its more a sense of "motivation". I just don't think healthy American males should be satisfied with owning two pairs of socks, or living in a tent or any of that wierd shit, lol.

Let's face it, if some of these "minimalists" lived in a piss poor town in India that doesn't offer them free healthcare, or wifi, they wouldn't be singing the same tune.

Post: #20

For me happiness is about feeling and being as free as possible. Most material possessions are liabilities, demand upkeep and cause you to get over attached. I understand where you're coming from tho, possessions give you status, and status helps you get laid, but i don't think minimalism is about not owning nice things as it's about keeping things as simple as possible.

“Nature is pleased with simplicity. And nature is no dummy”
― Isaac Newton

“Simplicity is the final achievement. After one has played a vast quantity of notes and more notes, it is simplicity that emerges as the crowning reward of art.”
― Frederic Chopin

Post: #21

I've tried being being a minimalist for 6 months now. I'd like to not be for a few months now. I find myself wanting "stuff" again.

Post: #22

Does anyone think that if most men under 30 in this country have this idea of "owning less", that eventually we are going to get fucked in ass? aka U.S currency, trade inbalances, lower standard of living?

I'm sure Chinese men under 30 aren't thinking like that, they want a Mercedes, a condo, and some Italian leather couches.

Post: #23

I think the point of minimalism is not an end unto itself, but a means to the end of achieving your long term goals - aka the Ferrari.

Unless you strike it rich quickly, most guys will never be able to afford things like a Ferrari UNLESS they embrace a minimalist lifestyle and SAVE to reach their goals.

Also, you don't want to become a slave to your possessions...where you buy all these things with debt and then you are no longer free to tell your asshole boss/corporate employer to go fuck themselves when they shit on you, because you need their paycheck to service your debt.

Post: #24

The idea of owning more is nothing more than corporate america telling you what you want and desire. They make this life path for you of endless buying, one-upmanship, and what not...but at the end of the day, you'll still want more and more and will never be happy. The whole thing is like women buying high end purses. It makes them feel good and they show off them. Then they get bored and keep on buying more and more and they look crazy to everyone else. For these women, you can buy one Louis Vuitton purse and have the appearance of you're a jet setting parisian..or you can use that money to ACTUALLY go to Paris and experience the lifestyle instead of simulating it. Honestly, which is the better path to follow? Collect for the sake of collecting and hoarding or using the resources to build a lifestyle and not just "fake it".

When I think of consumerism (the opposite of minimalism) in the US, I think of McMansions, flashy cars, etc....nothing wrong with that...but you can still be minimalist and be high end and have nice things...just not in overabundance.

I like a nice suit, nice car, italian leather shoes, I eat at fine restaurants and enjoy high end alcoholic beverages....having or planning to acquire these things doesn't mean I'm NOT a minimalist. Minimalism is a lifestyle. Having less clutter in your life. Having less stress. Not making the acquisition of physical goods as the focus of your life, but as an adjunct to it.

Post: #25

158 ludlow.

You don't need a suit or any of that shit, white v-neck, fitted blazer, $25 + $5 for cover.

Your friends are wasting your time, mid town? Ni**a please.