Post: #26

(02-21-2013 08:01 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  Well the great thing about the quants is they aren't as smart as they think they are. You can use that to your advantage. Those guys have to park billions of dollars. You can't do that without people noticing. Also their models do not account for human emotion and greed. Which is a bigger part of trading than technicals or fundamentals.

If you bought an index fund on the Nasdaq in 99 you wouldn't even have 60% of your money back. If you bought the S&P in 2007 you haven't even broken even yet. Fuck if you bought an index fund tied to the Nikkei before 1990 you wouldn't even have 25% of your capital back and it has been over 20 years.

That's why people advise dollar cost averaging. Who the hell goes all in the market all at once?

If you are others are as good as investing as you claim, you should track your record, raise cash, and start your own hedge fund.

Playing stocks is the dumbest mistake most guys will make.

Dollar cost average into low-cost index funds is the answer. Make contributions every month and then a stock decline won't kill you. Sometimes you buy when stocks and high and sometimes you buy when stocks are low.

But when it averages out, you do just fine.

Now I know a bunch of guys will say, "I made money trading apple! I am an excellent trader!"

OK. Now factor out cash and transaction costs. And factor in your trades over 5 years. That means count your losses, too.

But, again, if guys are consistently beating the markets, what are you doing posting stock tips online? Open a hedge fund or mutual fund and start making tens of millions or more a year.

I personally have apple but otherwise my cash is in a balanced fixed income and equities portfolio.

If I could beat the market, there's no way I'd be talking about stocks online. I'd be minting money and playing with other people's money.

Post: #27

(02-22-2013 03:27 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 07:48 PM)RichieP Wrote:  What do you guys say to the idea that the only winning strategy in the stockmarket, long-term, is an index fund?

Great advertising for guys that sell index funds.

Couple key things I learned about "The Street"
- those guys have a herd like mentality (If I see another pair of Salvatore Ferragamo Tramezzas...)
- dissent is often quashed, and dissenters marginalized if not fired
- they have too much money, so they can only buy into, and look into big opportunities.
- they all (most) believe in the Efficient Market Hypothesis and Market Portfolio Theory
- they're cannibals, jackals and hyenas

You beat the street by doing the research and sticking to your guns.
The hardest thing about investing isn't the analysis, it's your emotional turmoil.

It's up, should I sell? Should I wait?
It's down, should I sell? Should I buy more?
I don't know what the future holds!

WIA

Including transaction costs, what are you annual returns relative to the bench mark?

If you can "beat the Street," why don't you start a hedge fund?

Seeing guys not screw up their lives playing the market is something I am passionate about. Every guy goes through a "I'm a trader phase" and it doesn't end well.

Good investing is boring. Dollar cost average into the market every month. Sometimes you'll buy high and sometimes you'll buy lose.

As Warren Buffett says, "The stock market was a 66 at the turn of the century. Now it's at 14,000. How could anyone lose money in that market? Yet most people do."

Post: #28

(02-24-2013 08:43 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(02-22-2013 03:27 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 07:48 PM)RichieP Wrote:  What do you guys say to the idea that the only winning strategy in the stockmarket, long-term, is an index fund?

Great advertising for guys that sell index funds.

Couple key things I learned about "The Street"
- those guys have a herd like mentality (If I see another pair of Salvatore Ferragamo Tramezzas...)
- dissent is often quashed, and dissenters marginalized if not fired
- they have too much money, so they can only buy into, and look into big opportunities.
- they all (most) believe in the Efficient Market Hypothesis and Market Portfolio Theory
- they're cannibals, jackals and hyenas

You beat the street by doing the research and sticking to your guns.
The hardest thing about investing isn't the analysis, it's your emotional turmoil.

It's up, should I sell? Should I wait?
It's down, should I sell? Should I buy more?
I don't know what the future holds!

WIA

Including transaction costs, what are you annual returns relative to the bench mark?

If you can "beat the Street," why don't you start a hedge fund?

Seeing guys not screw up their lives playing the market is something I am passionate about. Every guy goes through a "I'm a trader phase" and it doesn't end well.

Good investing is boring. Dollar cost average into the market every month. Sometimes you'll buy high and sometimes you'll buy lose.

As Warren Buffett says, "The stock market was a 66 at the turn of the century. Now it's at 14,000. How could anyone lose money in that market? Yet most people do."

I appreciate your viewpoint but I personally trade for the lifestyle as do many successful traders. It changes the game when you take on investors just like when owning a business and you decide to take on outside capital.

There are many sole traders out there trading who make very good money. However most people don't have the patience, discipline and knowledge to get to this level.

When i first started I paper traded for over 18 months just to get to the point where I felt confident in a system which allowed me to trade without emotion with a consistently high % of winners.

Even when i went live with real money my trades were small. The focus was on the system not on making money.

Most people are not willing to go through this process and blow up there accounts.

For inactive investors I do agree that putting money into an S&P fund monthly is a good idea as I believe we will see a strong bull market over the next few years.

For active traders who are looking to time in and out of the market this is not a viable strategy.

Post: #29

MikeCF I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about it. Jumping on here and attacking guys when you know nothing about their personals lives is plain ignorant.

First off you clearly don't see the advantage of not starting a hedge fund. When you move into trades with thousands of dollars that is almost undetectable. So that gives you an advantage over the hedge funds right there. Also hedge funds aren't as successful as you think. The " smart money " had a good run in the 80's and 90's because of a bull market in stocks and in the 00's because of the bond market. But since 2008 and the stock market doubling from the bottom most funds have either lost money or didn't even come close to beating the benchmark set by the s&p500. Not sure why you think starting your own hedgefund is such a great move.

Secondly Warren Buffet is a sham and you would know that if you knew anything about investing. Just look at his recent moves in the last 5 years. Also look at his history with the silver market. I think you pay attention to what he says and not what he does. How is he not in jail when his bank was caught laundering money for the drug cartels ? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busine...21918.html . Or how about his right hand men charlie munger and David Sokol caught front running BRK buyouts ? You think his top execs are front running deals and he doesn't know about it or isn't involved ?

Dollar cost averaging will work if you stick with it. So will pyramiding which is the exact opposite. For the record the best traders of all time use pyramiding.

For your information I do track every single trade I have ever made. Everything about the transaction is recorded and analyzed. I know right down to the last penny how much I have made. Millions of traders beat the street every year. It really isn't that hard. Almost any system will make you money as long as you stick to it. That is the problem with most traders, they don't stick to a system.

Post: #30

(02-21-2013 08:01 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  

(02-21-2013 07:48 PM)RichieP Wrote:  What do you guys say to the idea that the only winning strategy in the stockmarket, long-term, is an index fund?

Unless you have insider information, how can you possibly hope to do better than the hedge funds who employ hundreds of PhDs to crunch the numbers... there's no way one guy can beat them on prediction, right?

So isn't anything other than a diversified index-fund portfolio just gambling, with backwards-rationalization from the people who got lucky?

Well the great thing about the quants is they aren't as smart as they think they are. You can use that to your advantage. Those guys have to park billions of dollars. You can't do that without people noticing. Also their models do not account for human emotion and greed. Which is a bigger part of trading than technicals or fundamentals.

If you bought an index fund on the Nasdaq in 99 you wouldn't even have 60% of your money back. If you bought the S&P in 2007 you haven't even broken even yet. Fuck if you bought an index fund tied to the Nikkei before 1990 you wouldn't even have 25% of your capital back and it has been over 20 years.

Well, the consensus of the academic literature is that the market cannot be consistently beaten and that the professional managers do not consistently deliver excess returns exceeding the amount of their fees. That said, I would be reluctant to go into an equities index in the absence of a pullback and would want to be diversified among asset classes. And I'm as guilty (greedy) any anyone else of thinking I am going to be the guy to beat the market. And I have in recent years but it was largely luck.

Post: #31

What do you guys think of Berkshire (BRK-B) as a long term value investment? Instead of buying SPY or QQQ or EEM just buy BRK and trust Buffet for a long term retirement play.

Post: #32

(02-25-2013 09:10 PM)bars Wrote:  What do you guys think of Berkshire (BRK-B) as a long term value investment? Instead of buying SPY or QQQ or EEM just buy BRK and trust Buffet for a long term retirement play.

As Buffet is in his 80s and Berkshire likely has some amount of premium priced in based on his leadership, I'd be reluctant to get in as a long term investment. I don't follow the stock closely but last I checked there wasn't a clear succession plan.

Post: #33

Well since he owns a lot of real income producing assets like oil wells and the like it could do well in the future. Technically speaking I was ready to buy this week but now I am holding off and see if it regains the $100 mark. If it does bust through the 100 dollar mark with high volume you could see a huge run in the share prices.

Post: #34

(02-25-2013 09:13 PM)Lemmo Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 09:10 PM)bars Wrote:  What do you guys think of Berkshire (BRK-B) as a long term value investment? Instead of buying SPY or QQQ or EEM just buy BRK and trust Buffet for a long term retirement play.

As Buffet is in his 80s and Berkshire likely has some amount of premium priced in based on his leadership, I'd be reluctant to get in as a long term investment. I don't follow the stock closely but last I checked there wasn't a clear succession plan.

Buffet has a succession plan he just won't reveal who. He did bring in two managers that manage most of Berkshire's positions under a billion (excluding Berkshire's newspaper play)

I myself got Brk.B a short while ago at ~96.5

Post: #35

(02-24-2013 10:00 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  MikeCF I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about it. Jumping on here and attacking guys when you know nothing about their personals lives is plain ignorant

What are your annualized returns over the 5 five years, minus transaction costs, relative to your bench mark?

You and others are not consistently beating the market.

It's hardly an attack on you. Very few people consistently beat the market.

Guys have a good year/make a good trade and forget the bad years.

Those who beat the market make tens of millions of years in fees rather than trade stock tips on message boards.

Post: #36

(02-25-2013 11:50 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Those who beat the market make tens of millions of years in fees rather than trade stock tips on message boards.

No, those guys aren't consistently beating the market either. They just have the relationships to get the big allocations. Or they had a couple of blockbuster years and trade off the resulting reputation for the rest of their careers. Just look at the professionals who are using 10+ year returns in their marketing materials (because if they used a shorter period their returns would be crap).

Post: #37

(02-25-2013 11:57 PM)Lemmo Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 11:50 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Those who beat the market make tens of millions of years in fees rather than trade stock tips on message boards.

No, those guys aren't consistently beating the market either. They just have the relationships to get the big allocations. Or they had a couple of blockbuster years and trade off the resulting reputation for the rest of their careers. Just look at the professionals who are using 10+ year returns in their marketing materials (because if they used a shorter period their returns would be crap).

And of course there is the problem of survivorship bias. How do you distinguish luck from skill given the large number of funds. Some funds, by chance alone, are going to survive just because there are so many damned funds.

But we don't even need to go there. There's no guy posting here who is beating the market year after year.

Post: #38

(02-24-2013 10:00 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  Secondly Warren Buffet is a sham and you would know that if you knew anything about investing. Just look at his recent moves in the last 5 years. Also look at his history with the silver market. I think you pay attention to what he says and not what he does. How is he not in jail when his bank was caught laundering money for the drug cartels ? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busine...21918.html . Or how about his right hand men charlie munger and David Sokol caught front running BRK buyouts ? You think his top execs are front running deals and he doesn't know about it or isn't involved ?

Did I say he was ethical? I said he's a better investor than you and nearly everyone else.

If you claim to be a better investor than Buffett that's sorta like saying you only mess with dimes. That's a mighty big claim that is either proven with pics or dismissed as keyboard warrior bravado.

Post: #39

Mike you better go back to page one and re-read what you said about warren buffet. You did imply he was ethical. A poster made the comment that he is a troll and deceives everyone by telling them to buy one thing and meanwhile he is buying other things. So you are saying the poster is wrong and Warren Buffet is ethical because that is all the poster had commented on. Yes we all know buffet has made billions legitimately but he has made a lot of money illegally and if you or I did it we would be in jail.

As for myself personally why even bother saying what I make on a board. How would I prove it ? But I will tell you this, I trade options and futures. Do a little research into what the average option trader makes in a year. Most do 24%-36% without even rolling out of bed and putting a lot less at risk than stock traders.

Also there is a big a difference in being an investor vs a trader. Again I think you are talking about things you don't understand. I am a better trader than buffet. Buffet didn't get rich from using credit spreads and synthetics. He used partnerships to raise money and acquire publicly traded companies by buying up their stock or bonds. He did not buy and sell a 1000 shares of companies day in and day out and earn huge capital gains. He took over undervalued companies plain and simple. Completely different than trading the markets.

Post: #40

(02-24-2013 08:26 PM)juice Wrote:  Unusual options activity can be viewed through different services. Livevol has an excellent screener feature for options and a blog that teaches things like screening for unusual options activity.

Finviz has a free screener for stocks that allows you to incorporate different fundamental and technical variables. Hope that helps!

juice, thanks much for the info on screening tools.

Post: #41

(02-26-2013 03:14 AM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  As for myself personally why even bother saying what I make on a board. How would I prove it ? But I will tell you this, I trade options and futures. Do a little research into what the average option trader makes in a year. Most do 24%-36% without even rolling out of bed and putting a lot less at risk than stock traders.

This is the stupidest thing I've read all day...had to come in and call you out on it. Some people make lots of money trading options but most people lose it...you might be doing good right now, and you may very well be a genius trader, and kudos to you.

But 24-36% A YEAR has got to be the most retarded thing I've read all day. If that was true, then everyone would be an options trader and minting money.

Like MikeCF said, if anyone was actually killing the market consistently, they sure as hell wouldn't be bullshitting on a forum. That person would be sitting on a beach somewhere doing jackshit because he would be the richest man in the world. You may know what you're talking about with your own trading (I'm trying to give you credit and not just bash you), but you are way out of line with that stupid % of "most traders rolling out of bed with 30% a year."

Get real!

Post: #42

(02-26-2013 03:14 AM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  As for myself personally why even bother saying what I make on a board. How would I prove it ? But I will tell you this, I trade options and futures. Do a little research into what the average option trader makes in a year. Most do 24%-36% without even rolling out of bed and putting a lot less at risk than stock traders

So you're doing sophisticated option trades and credit default swaps with a pencil and paper?

I could give a screen cap of my brokerage account showing any of my trades. I could show growth of my portfolio over time. I could show real rate of return.

My "trades" are nothing to write home about. They are boring, well-diversified ETFs and fixed income mutual funds.

On every board - whether a boxing forum or game forum - where men congregate there are traders who claim great rates of returns.

Never a screen cap or any proof.

I personally don't care when guys tell fish stories.

But when guys give shitty advice that can harm the younger cats, there's a problem.

Post: #43

(02-26-2013 03:48 PM)stoney Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 03:14 AM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  As for myself personally why even bother saying what I make on a board. How would I prove it ? But I will tell you this, I trade options and futures. Do a little research into what the average option trader makes in a year. Most do 24%-36% without even rolling out of bed and putting a lot less at risk than stock traders.

This is the stupidest thing I've read all day...had to come in and call you out on it. Some people make lots of money trading options but most people lose it...you might be doing good right now, and you may very well be a genius trader, and kudos to you.

But 24-36% A YEAR has got to be the most retarded thing I've read all day. If that was true, then everyone would be an options trader and minting money.

Like MikeCF said, if anyone was actually killing the market consistently, they sure as hell wouldn't be bullshitting on a forum. That person would be sitting on a beach somewhere doing jackshit because he would be the richest man in the world. You may know what you're talking about with your own trading (I'm trying to give you credit and not just bash you), but you are way out of line with that stupid % of "most traders rolling out of bed with 30% a year."

Get real!

There you go spouting off about something you know nothing about. Look into before you stick your foot in your mouth even further. People don't do options because of the perceived notion that it is far more difficult. Which it isn't once you learn the basics. And I am not on this forum braggin about my returns. If you look through this posting I was trying to help guys analyze the market. Not make brilliant stock picks.

You obviously know nothing about selling puts and calls. I could wake up first thing tomorrow and with a couple clicks of the mouse have $10,000 deposited into my trading account instantly. But since you know nothing about options I won't try to explain it.

You are trolling about something you know nothing about.

Post: #44

(02-26-2013 05:23 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 03:48 PM)stoney Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 03:14 AM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  As for myself personally why even bother saying what I make on a board. How would I prove it ? But I will tell you this, I trade options and futures. Do a little research into what the average option trader makes in a year. Most do 24%-36% without even rolling out of bed and putting a lot less at risk than stock traders.

This is the stupidest thing I've read all day...had to come in and call you out on it. Some people make lots of money trading options but most people lose it...you might be doing good right now, and you may very well be a genius trader, and kudos to you.

But 24-36% A YEAR has got to be the most retarded thing I've read all day. If that was true, then everyone would be an options trader and minting money.

Like MikeCF said, if anyone was actually killing the market consistently, they sure as hell wouldn't be bullshitting on a forum. That person would be sitting on a beach somewhere doing jackshit because he would be the richest man in the world. You may know what you're talking about with your own trading (I'm trying to give you credit and not just bash you), but you are way out of line with that stupid % of "most traders rolling out of bed with 30% a year."

Get real!

There you go spouting off about something you know nothing about. Look into before you stick your foot in your mouth even further. People don't do options because of the perceived notion that it is far more difficult. Which it isn't once you learn the basics. And I am not on this forum braggin about my returns. If you look through this posting I was trying to help guys analyze the market. Not make brilliant stock picks.

You obviously know nothing about selling puts and calls. I could wake up first thing tomorrow and with a couple clicks of the mouse have $10,000 deposited into my trading account instantly. But since you know nothing about options I won't try to explain it.

You are trolling about something you know nothing about.

Please post a source for a claim that the average options trader is making 30%.

Post: #45

(02-26-2013 03:59 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 03:14 AM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  As for myself personally why even bother saying what I make on a board. How would I prove it ? But I will tell you this, I trade options and futures. Do a little research into what the average option trader makes in a year. Most do 24%-36% without even rolling out of bed and putting a lot less at risk than stock traders

So you're doing sophisticated option trades and credit default swaps with a pencil and paper?

I could give a screen cap of my brokerage account showing any of my trades. I could show growth of my portfolio over time. I could show real rate of return.

My "trades" are nothing to write home about. They are boring, well-diversified ETFs and fixed income mutual funds.

On every board - whether a boxing forum or game forum - where men congregate there are traders who claim great rates of returns.

Never a screen cap or any proof.

I personally don't care when guys tell fish stories.

But when guys give shitty advice that can harm the younger cats, there's a problem.

I could post my account details with a screen shot, but how does that prove it is mine. I am sure there are millions of screen shots online I could " borrow " from. I could post my excel spread sheets as well for all past trades and performances. But again how do you know that is being done and faked after the fact ?

And if you think guys analyzing the option market is a bad idea to figure out where the smart money is going than your as dumb as the posts you are making. Options have a steady track record of predicting future price action, you are a fool to not look into it before you execute a trade.

Did you know options will predict almost to the exact percentage how much a stock will move before a major event such as earnings ? You probably don't know that, but here you are telling people that cost averaging is the way to go and that warren buffet is a great trader.

Post: #46

(02-26-2013 05:23 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  You obviously know nothing about selling puts and calls. I could wake up first thing tomorrow and with a couple clicks of the mouse have $10,000 deposited into my trading account instantly. But since you know nothing about options I won't try to explain it.

You are trolling about something you know nothing about.

ROFL. At 30% returns, by now you should have a lot more than 10K in "house money" to trade.

You could post screen caps to validate your record.

You won't. You're the same as the guy who only kicks it with dimes. Lots of words to type and lots of vitriol when called on his bullshit. But never any proof.

Post: #47

(02-26-2013 05:29 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 05:23 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  You obviously know nothing about selling puts and calls. I could wake up first thing tomorrow and with a couple clicks of the mouse have $10,000 deposited into my trading account instantly. But since you know nothing about options I won't try to explain it.

You are trolling about something you know nothing about.

ROFL. At 30% returns, by now you should have a lot more than 10K in "house money" to trade.

You could post screen caps to validate your record.

You won't. You're the same as the guy who only kicks it with dimes. Lots of words to type and lots of vitriol when called on his bullshit. But never any proof.

Man are you retarded. You clearly no nothing about what I just talked about.

If you knew how options worked(which you don't ) you would have picked up on what I am talking about selling puts and calls and how to instantly profit from a few mouse clicks. You seem to assume I am talking about wiring in 10k or that I only have 10k in my account.

You clearly do not get it and that statement clearly proves you know nothing about the subject at hand.

I will explain it to you but I know you won't get it.

When you sell an option contract your account is instantly credited with cash that you get to keep. Essentially you are selling insurance to an investor. The investor pays the premium which goes instantly into your account. I can do this all day everyday. As long as I have enough capital in my account I can sell options.

There is more too it than that. But since your simple brain continues to spout off about things you know nothing about I won't go into more detail because this is all going clearly over your head.

Post: #48

(02-26-2013 05:56 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 05:29 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 05:23 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  You obviously know nothing about selling puts and calls. I could wake up first thing tomorrow and with a couple clicks of the mouse have $10,000 deposited into my trading account instantly. But since you know nothing about options I won't try to explain it.

You are trolling about something you know nothing about.

ROFL. At 30% returns, by now you should have a lot more than 10K in "house money" to trade.

You could post screen caps to validate your record.

You won't. You're the same as the guy who only kicks it with dimes. Lots of words to type and lots of vitriol when called on his bullshit. But never any proof.

Man are you retarded. You clearly no nothing about what I just talked about.

If you knew how options worked(which you don't ) you would have picked up on what I am talking about selling puts and calls and how to instantly profit from a few mouse clicks. You seem to assume I am talking about wiring in 10k or that I only have 10k in my account.

You clearly do not get it and that statement clearly proves you know nothing about the subject at hand.

I will explain it to you but I know you won't get it.

When you sell an option contract your account is instantly credited with cash that you get to keep. Essentially you are selling insurance to an investor. The investor pays the premium which goes instantly into your account. I can do this all day everyday. As long as I have enough capital in my account I can sell options.

There is more too it than that. But since your simple brain continues to spout off about things you know nothing about I won't go into more detail because this is all going clearly over your head.

You still aren't addressing the main source of people's skepticism. You claimed the average options trader is consistently making 30% per year. Source? I think everyone knows what an option is and no one doubts you can make/lose money trading them as you would with any other financial instrument/asset.

Post: #49

(02-26-2013 06:14 PM)Lemmo Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 05:56 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 05:29 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 05:23 PM)BIGINJAPAN Wrote:  You obviously know nothing about selling puts and calls. I could wake up first thing tomorrow and with a couple clicks of the mouse have $10,000 deposited into my trading account instantly. But since you know nothing about options I won't try to explain it.

You are trolling about something you know nothing about.

ROFL. At 30% returns, by now you should have a lot more than 10K in "house money" to trade.

You could post screen caps to validate your record.

You won't. You're the same as the guy who only kicks it with dimes. Lots of words to type and lots of vitriol when called on his bullshit. But never any proof.

Man are you retarded. You clearly no nothing about what I just talked about.

If you knew how options worked(which you don't ) you would have picked up on what I am talking about selling puts and calls and how to instantly profit from a few mouse clicks. You seem to assume I am talking about wiring in 10k or that I only have 10k in my account.

You clearly do not get it and that statement clearly proves you know nothing about the subject at hand.

I will explain it to you but I know you won't get it.

When you sell an option contract your account is instantly credited with cash that you get to keep. Essentially you are selling insurance to an investor. The investor pays the premium which goes instantly into your account. I can do this all day everyday. As long as I have enough capital in my account I can sell options.

There is more too it than that. But since your simple brain continues to spout off about things you know nothing about I won't go into more detail because this is all going clearly over your head.

You still aren't addressing the main source of people's skepticism. You claimed the average options trader is consistently making 30% per year. Source? I think everyone knows what an option is and no one doubts you can make/lose money trading them as you would with any other financial instrument/asset.

MikeCF clearly does not have a clue. Otherwise he wouldn't have said something so stupid.

As for the 30 percent I am looking for actual data from the CBOE or CME. Otherwise everything else is just surveys.

Post: #50

Post screen caps of your returns big boy.