Post: #76

(02-20-2013 11:33 AM)yb13 Wrote:  So the familiar voice of your girlfriend crying and being terrified inside a locked up bathroom in your house can easily be mistaken for a random intruder...sounds feasible...

There was no evidence of that, in fact it's been proven she was in the toilet doing what people normally do, having a fucking piss, her post mortem revealed her bladder was completely empty.

The prosecution are doing their best to fuck up the case. First the detective said a witness heard screams at 600m. Now 600m is a fucking large distance, those screams could have come from anywhere, Usain bolt sprinting at the pace he runs at for 100m would take him 55s to run 600m, so you can imagine the distance involved if it takes the fastest man 55s to run. He then changed this to 300m. Of course now he's also in an attempted murder case.

It's not looking good for the prosecution as they are chasing premeditated murder and their statements and testimonies keep changing whilst Pistorious has been constant. The prosecution sent forward this detective yesterday and all his information just corroborated what the stumpy killer had said in his story. So this could be an OJ style case.

Post: #77

Bail has been granted. The judge basically ripped both sides, exposing holes and criticizing what's been presented by the prosecution, and also casting doubt on Pistorius's account of his actions. He doesn't see him as a flight risk, so he'll be out on bail.

Post: #78

Well, at least he has a year or two of freedom then. Actually his sister isn't bad looking.

[/img] http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/earl...sister.jpg [/img]

Someone needs to figure out how to run courtroom game. Though the couple of times I've been in one I 'd have to say they are among the most depressing places to be. On a par with a hospital burns unit I'd say.

Post: #79

Pistorious’ trial starts this Monday, 3rd March, so I thought I’d resurrect this thread and briefly recap why he is on trial, and go through some limited updates/leaks. This trial will be SA’s version of the OJ trial, and is also attracting a lot of international attention. Firstly, a list of the players:

The Victim – Miss Reeva Steenkamp:



Miss Steenkamp was a 29 year old model from the city of Port Elizabeth, and was dating Mr Pistorious at the time of her death. She died as a result of sustaining multiple gunshot wounds on Valentines Day last year at Mr Pistorious’ luxury house in a gated estate in the capital city of Pretoria. She was locked in the toilet cubicle at the time, which was part of the larger en-suite bathroom.

The Defendant – Mr Oscar Pistorious:



Mr Pistorious is a 27 year old Olympic and Paralympic athlete. His legs were amputated just below the knee when he was 11 months old. He has achieved global fame due to his struggle to compete against able-bodied athletes. A struggle that was ultimately successful, and culminated in his participation in the 2012 Olympic Games in London. He is known as the “Blade Runner”. Mr Pistorious admits to firing multiple shots through a closed and locked toilet door, behind which Miss Steenkamp was crouching. He rejects the charge of murder and claims he believed at the time that an intruder had locked himself behind the door and he was filled with dread should the intruder emerge. This claim is rejected by the prosecution who has charged him with premeditated murder.

The Prosecutor – Mr Gerrie Nel



Mr Nel is South Africa’s best known prosecutor, and is highly respected for his integrity and abilities. He has obtained guilty verdicts in trials of several high profile defendants, including the one-time head of the SA Police Force and Interpol Head, Mr Jackie Selebi, as well as various high profile mafia type personalities. It is generally agreed that he is the most competent state prosecutor in the country, and was no doubt brought in due to the high profile nature of this case.


The Defence Team – Mssrs Roux, Weber and Fancett:



Can’t find too much info on his team. No doubt they have been working hard, and bleeding the extended Pistorious family dry over the last year.


The Judge – Ms Thokozile Matilda Masipa:



Not that much known about her. Commentators are highlighting the fact that in two previous cases she presided over where men were accused of murdering women she handed down the maximum sentence allowed. 252 years in one case and life in prison in the other.


The Circling Vultures – The Media



A judge recently ruled that the trial can be broadcast. Audio channel for the whole trial. Video for opening and closing arguments and all the prosecutors’ witnesses. No video for Pistorious’ testimony, or that of any of his witnesses. The local satellite TV operator, DSTV, has set up a dedicated 24/7 channel to cover the trial, which is expected to run from 3 – 20 March 2014. They are bringing in various experts in their field to discuss the case as it happens, including, somewhat bizarrely, OJ Simpson’s defence lawyer Robert Shapiro.


New Evidence:

Not much new evidence has emerged in public since the publicity around this case died down last year after Mr Pistorious was granted bail. Basically two things seem to have been leaked
1) Ballistics will show that Mr Pistorious was on his stumps when firing, not on his blades.
2) Mildly titillating is that Mr Pistorious was surfing porn on his phone the night he killed Miss Steenkamp. This has been determined through linking the phones SIM card to an ISP, who presumably supplied the police with logs of activity on that night. The police are also trying to get additional info from the phone and are enlisting Apple’s help in this cause.

So the trial begins Monday, and is likely to be quite a big media event, certainly in SA, and also around the world. People in the general public have already made up their mind. IMO Pistorious is toast, and he will be going to jail for 25 years after his entire extended family is bled dry by the lawyers and expert witnesses. I think his family is well off, but not really rich. This case will likely bankrupt both him and them.

Also, it should be noted that SA does not have jury trials. The judge decides guilt/innocence and also hands down the sentence. Pistorious, somewhat strangely, still seems to be spending money on publicists, which aren't going to affect the result of the trail one iota.

Post: #80

I talked to some Afrikaaners today, they shrugged and said he'd get off, his money would save him. I was surprised.

Seems like his and her texts/facebook messages/emails before the killing would tell the tale.

Post: #81

(02-27-2014 03:58 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  I talked to some Afrikaaners today, they shrugged and said he'd get off, his money would save him. I was surprised.

Seems like his and her texts/facebook messages/emails before the killing would tell the tale.

If he were lower profile, maybe. Sometimes the police "lose" some evidence. But Pistorious' problem I think is who is up against. The prosecutor obtained a guilty verdict against someone who was not only the sitting Chief of Police of the country, but also the head of Interpol at the time. Pistorious is small fry by comparison.

Also, I don't think he has that much money, and has likely already spent the bulk of it on lawyers and publicists.

Post: #82

I was actually in S.Africa when this happened.

Seems likely that the two of them got into a row on valentines, she locked herself in the bathroom to get away from him and he shot through the door probably not attempting to kill her but clearly not thinking either.

That's my theory anyway.

Post: #83

He has a new girlfriend.... Leah Skye Malan.

Post: #84

I can't really make any intelligent comment on this case, but I do know some people with handicaps have serious insecurity issues.

Yes, even if they are hugely successful - in fact, their success is often a result of the insecurities that drive them.

I had a really close friend for a long time that was born with a pretty substantial handicap. Still slayed hot girls and was an incredible athlete, as well as successful in every endeavor, physical or otherwise, that he partook in.

But he's also a basketcase and our friendship fell apart because of it. Especially with alcohol the guy would just fall apart. Extremely jealous over women and even over his own friends, playing little drama games and shit. One of the more emotionally unstable and selfish men I've known.

Again, I don't know enough about this case, but if he does foster that type of insecurity from growing up with a handcap like that and then you enter a seriously hot woman and suspicious of infidelity or the possibility of losing her, and it's not that farfetched to imagine a recipe for an emotional explosion.

I'm not prepared to draw any conclusions though, and I doubt I'll research enough to find out any more than what I browsed here.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #85

(02-27-2014 10:03 PM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  I was actually in S.Africa when this happened.

Seems likely that the two of them got into a row on valentines, she locked herself in the bathroom to get away from him and he shot through the door probably not attempting to kill her but clearly not thinking either.

That's my theory anyway.

Yes, absolutely. This is likely the banal truth of what happened, and what the prosecutor will try to show, and the defense is railing against. OP's problem is also that even if there HAD been an intruder behind the door he would still be facing jail time. You can't just randomly fire bullets at a closed door when you are not under threat/attack. It's ridiculous.

I have not had a chance to follow events today, the first day of the trial, but will check out recaps on the "OP Channel" later.

Do remember hearing yesterday that the police were successful in California and Apple helped them crack OP's iPhone. So they have all the available data from the phone. Apple technicians may be called to give evidence. OP has been pretending that he forgot the security code to unlock the phone. Not sure why the police waited till now to do this. Maybe to disrupt OP's defense, by allowing them to "hope" that the data would be unavailable and waste time preparing for this.

Post: #86

Here's a brief update after week 1 of the trial for those interested:

No forensic evidence in week 1, I don't think. Mostly just "ear" witnesses to the crimes the state is trying to prove. Apart from the murder charge OP also faces other charges relating to the unsafe handling of guns on past occasions. The state witnesses are pretty damming so far. Multiple witnesses recall hearing an argument the night of the killing, a woman's chilling screams, then gunshots.

The defense's case seems weak to me, though put across as well as possible considering OP's legal team. His main lawyer charges something like US$5,000/day, a very large sum in SA. His defense is simply ignoring the argument heard by multiple witnesses (OP has already claimed there was no argument in written statements), and saying that the woman's screams that witnesses heard were actually OP screaming after realising what he had done. No, not making this up. The key to OP's defense will be that when he is anxious he screams like a girl. This has already been disputed by at least two witnesses, but that is the best the defense has. Will have to be spectacularly good to make that stick in my opinion. The defense is also trying to convince witnesses that some of the shots they heard weren't gunshots, but OP bashing down the door with a crickets bat.

OP's demeanor in court has been interesting. From the bit I saw he usually looks stoney-faced, and sometimes makes notes to pass to his legal team. When Steenkamp's injuries are described he brakes out in tears and sometimes vomits. I'm not buying it. Looks to he he is playing to a non-existent jury. Judges don't care about that sort of thing except to the extent it disrupts the flow of the case.

Post: #87

(02-28-2014 05:24 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Yes, even if they are hugely successful - in fact, their success is often a result of the insecurities that drive them.

Absolutely true. In one of my old gigs, guy made a fortune, hung a billion dollars of personally guaranteed debt around his neck and his ego (really insecurity) pushed him to make some bad fucking decisions. Glad I got out before it all went to piss.

Some people need a fuel to keep going where most would quit, this fuel has to be very powerful. Anger, insecurity are often those fuels.

Oh ya and he was totally pleasant human being

With a strong moral compass lol.

He was pretty paranoid, never slept and overthought stuff. He was smart but it is shocking how little of that analytical power was focused on himself to grow as a person. He had no emotional control.

Post: #88

(03-10-2014 11:45 AM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  Here's a brief update after week 1 of the trial for those interested:

No forensic evidence in week 1, I don't think. Mostly just "ear" witnesses to the crimes the state is trying to prove. Apart from the murder charge OP also faces other charges relating to the unsafe handling of guns on past occasions. The state witnesses are pretty damming so far. Multiple witnesses recall hearing an argument the night of the killing, a woman's chilling screams, then gunshots.

The defense's case seems weak to me, though put across as well as possible considering OP's legal team. His main lawyer charges something like US$5,000/day, a very large sum in SA. His defense is simply ignoring the argument heard by multiple witnesses (OP has already claimed there was no argument in written statements), and saying that the woman's screams that witnesses heard were actually OP screaming after realising what he had done. No, not making this up. The key to OP's defense will be that when he is anxious he screams like a girl. This has already been disputed by at least two witnesses, but that is the best the defense has. Will have to be spectacularly good to make that stick in my opinion. The defense is also trying to convince witnesses that some of the shots they heard weren't gunshots, but OP bashing down the door with a crickets bat.

OP's demeanor in court has been interesting. From the bit I saw he usually looks stoney-faced, and sometimes makes notes to pass to his legal team. When Steenkamp's injuries are described he brakes out in tears and sometimes vomits. I'm not buying it. Looks to he he is playing to a non-existent jury. Judges don't care about that sort of thing except to the extent it disrupts the flow of the case.

It's a weird case, the prosecutions evidence isn't really that strong either..

Post: #89

(03-10-2014 12:20 PM)bojangles Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 11:45 AM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  Here's a brief update after week 1 of the trial for those interested:

No forensic evidence in week 1, I don't think. Mostly just "ear" witnesses to the crimes the state is trying to prove. Apart from the murder charge OP also faces other charges relating to the unsafe handling of guns on past occasions. The state witnesses are pretty damming so far. Multiple witnesses recall hearing an argument the night of the killing, a woman's chilling screams, then gunshots.

The defense's case seems weak to me, though put across as well as possible considering OP's legal team. His main lawyer charges something like US$5,000/day, a very large sum in SA. His defense is simply ignoring the argument heard by multiple witnesses (OP has already claimed there was no argument in written statements), and saying that the woman's screams that witnesses heard were actually OP screaming after realising what he had done. No, not making this up. The key to OP's defense will be that when he is anxious he screams like a girl. This has already been disputed by at least two witnesses, but that is the best the defense has. Will have to be spectacularly good to make that stick in my opinion. The defense is also trying to convince witnesses that some of the shots they heard weren't gunshots, but OP bashing down the door with a crickets bat.

OP's demeanor in court has been interesting. From the bit I saw he usually looks stoney-faced, and sometimes makes notes to pass to his legal team. When Steenkamp's injuries are described he brakes out in tears and sometimes vomits. I'm not buying it. Looks to he he is playing to a non-existent jury. Judges don't care about that sort of thing except to the extent it disrupts the flow of the case.

It's a weird case, the prosecutions evidence isn't really that strong either..

The state's case is circumstantial, since the defendant was the only eye witness. But like I said OP's defense relies on the judge believing at least 3 improbable things:

1) That the argument that multiple witnesses heard comning from OP's house that night never happened.

2) That OP screams like a girl when upset. Already disputed by two witnesses, one of whom heard a man's and woman's voice at the same time. So one moment OP screams like a girl, the very next like a man? Good luck getting a judge to believe that.

3)That the gunshots witnesses heard after the woman's screams (which the defense is claiming were actual OP screaming like a girl) was in fact the sound of a cricket bat on the bathroom door. the problem with this is that the witnesses claim a rapid succession of shots. Not enough time to draw the cricket bat back to get enough energy for the next blow.

So far nothing in the trial has caused me to change my prediction that in a few months time (depending on appeals) OP will be starting a 25 year prison sentence and he and his extended family's finances will be depleted by his (admittedly very good) defense team. I think the defense has too much reality to get over to obtain a not guilty for OP.

Post: #90

I have looked through the evidence.

It doesn't look good.

Oscar Pistorius hasn't got a leg to stand on.

Post: #91

Post: #92

(02-20-2013 07:13 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  You know what they call a guy in prison with no legs?

A Fleshlight.

Post: #93

Thanks for the breakdown

Post: #94

So the trial has gone on...and on. All of last week, and early this week OP himself has been on the stand. Didn't really do himself any favours. He denies anything and everything other than what he has admitted to in his bail application.

The state's cross examination has been just...brutal. In the true sense if that overused word. Over 4 days the prosecutor (Nel) has shouted at OP, laughed derisively/incredulously at him and generally tore into him like a dog on a piece of meat. The start of the cross examination set the tone. Nel showed a Sky News video of OP shooting a Watermelon and making a comment about it being like shooting a person, only the watermelon is softer. Then right away Nel says something like "You know, that's what happened to Reeva's head. It exploded. Then followed by showing the crime scene photo of Steenkamp's head without warning. Networks broadcasting the trial live were unhappy. Won't post the pic here, but if you are interested in what someone's head would look like after being hit with hollow point ammunition you can see it here:
http://drum.co.za/uncategorized/warning-...-in-court/

And it went on like this for days. OP breaking down and crying and intentionally speaking in a high pitched voice (it's key to his defense). The prosecutor accusing him of breaking down when it suits him and when his case was going badly. The legal experts are saying the harsh cross-examination doesn't really factor into the outcome. It only helps or hinders if it reveals pertinent facts. Nel was trying to break down OP and make him stumble and reveal the "truth". That didn't really happen, but he did cast OP as an unreliable witness who changed his story a few times and was reluctant to accept responsibility for his actions.

OP has been unclear whether he is claiming self defense (I thought the intruder was coming for me) or, I don't know, temporary insanity (I didn't think. I just shot...four times) He started to say that he didn't think before firing since even if there had been an intruder behind the door he'd still be facing 15 years if he intended to kill them. Here is a picture of the bathroom cubicle (warning: graphic). It is tiny. No reasonable person would say that someone firing 4 shots into this space did not intend to kill whoever was in there:
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/05/3...ne-leaked/

He is also facing 3 other firearms charges relating to two cases of negligent firing of a firearm, and one of possession of ammunition for which he doesn't have a permit. His problems there are that in pleading non-guilty to these lesser charges, when the evidence overwhelmingly shows he is guilty, makes him come across as someone who doesn't take responsibility. His defense in the case where he is charged with firing a weapon accidentally under the table at a restaurant in Joburg is that the shot just "went off", without him pulling the trigger or having his finger anywhere near the trigger. Gun experts have already testified that that type of gun (Glock) does not discharge rounds without the trigger being pulled. In the case where he is accused of firing a round out of the sunroof of his car after an altercation with a policeman the two witnesses in the car who have testified to this are lying. It ever happened. And the ammunition in his house belongs to his father. But he is estranged from his father and has been for years. Also the father has refused to even make a statement, let alone testify, about the ammunition in order to help his son.

IMO he is still headed for bankruptcy and 25 years in jail. All the money and energy spent at the trial is really the defense trying to cobble something together to get him convicted only of culpable homicide, rather than murder. 15 years in jail rather than 25. That really is what is being decided. As far as money is concerned I think he is already bankrupt, or close to it. Has sold the house and cars and moved in with an uncle (his cousins are amongst his "bodyguard" when entering/exiting court). The uncle seems rich (Lives in a huge house in a Pretoria suburb favoured by Ambassadors to South Africa), but there's only so much an uncle would be prepared to do.

Still coming are the defense's forensic experts. They will, hilarioulsy, be trying to prove that OP "screams like a girl" when agitated, and that multiple witnesses who have testified to hearing an argument couldn't have heard it. Good luck with that.

Post: #95

OP is OJ. But he's going to be found guilty.

Post: #96

He is guilty.

But I think he doesn't deserve to be found guilty.

The guy was a hot head who regularly shot off guns in public.

That is a risky person to be around. And his chick chose to say with him - despite knowing this.

And then one day - he lost his temper and fired some shots into a door.

He is more upset than anyone that the chick is dead.

He was fucking stupid - and it was a rash thing to do. In the heat of the moment he would have thought that the door would have stopped the bullets. He was wrong. He tried to up the ante in a stupid argument. And now he is on trial for murder.

What separates a crime from random shit that went wrong?

Malice aforethought.

Show me the malice and any evidence of premeditation. And I will agree he is a murderer.

But he isn't. He was stupid. And by what I can see - is still more upset about the fact that the chick he loved is dead than the fact he is on trial for murder. Hence why he apologised to the mother the other day.

He is guilty. But he should be freed. No good can come from ruining another life.

Sadly - it will never happen. Since people put The Law ahead of the impact it has on people's lives.

We need a Jury Nullification here!

Post: #97

I could be wrong but I thought South Africa didn't use the jury system? It is up to the judge only for both verdict and sentence.

Happy to be corrected

Post: #98

(04-16-2014 09:03 PM)big poppa Wrote:  I could be wrong but I thought South Africa didn't use the jury system? It is up to the judge only for both verdict and sentence.

Happy to be corrected

That is correct bp. No juries. The judge "assisted by two assessors" will decide guilt and sentence. Makes the way the prosecution and defense present their case a bit different to jury countries. It removes the ability to use emotion to sway the decision since judges are trained to use the facts revealed at the trial, and in written presentations when deciding. Not emotions. Defense council can't use emotion to convince at least one juror to "feel sorry" for the accused, and prosecutors can't hide their lack of evidence behind the emotions whipped up by the crime itself.

cardguy:
I hear what you're saying. We talk a lot here about girls' desires and how to use these when gaming. And we all know how many(most?) girls can be attracted to aggression/power/violence. As you say though, courts will not look at the situation and say "Well, the woman knew that the defendant was violent and still became involved with him, so he should be held to a lower standard." This doesn't mean they are white knighting. They just don't care. They care about what crimes where committed and by whom.

I can't agree with your thought that OP may have thought that the bullets wouldn't go through the door. He was a gun enthusiast and had a very good idea how bullets behave.

Post: #99

Oscar has been foumd innocent.

Post: #100

I am almost sure nobody on my twitter feed has ever been to South Africa but i'm still reading tweets where people wish Pistorius to shoot Judge Massipa's child