Post: #1

[Wrote this in a previous post but had a bad title so reposting]

I know there are a few dads on here whose views I respect (Tenderman, El Mechanico, Mark Minter) so wanted to get current Dad's take on kids, and if they are worth giving up the bachelor lifestyle.

So here is my situation - 38, live in Chicago, economically independent (cashed out from a successful startup), location independent (I recently started running a small business I can operate from just about anywhere), travel to 3-5 countries annually, in shape, spin plates, with well over 100 notches. My married (beta) buddies like to ask the standard "so what did you do last weekend?" and I always respond with "anything I wanted".

My lifestyle is pretty hard to beat, to be honest. However, I do think about leaving a legacy and having children (in my biased opinion, I think I would be a great dad) so I am somewhat conflicted. And I also believe the best way to raise a kid is with a mom and dad in the same household (whether they are technically married or not matters less). The only reason I would even consider marriage is in order to raise a family. I assume most of the dads on here are divorced so they have probably already gone through the ringer (assets confiscated, see your kids less, etc). So is having a legacy worth all that? And even if you are currently married, are they worth the drastic change in lifestyle? I find most people are inherently biased when asked this question in person because if they answer no, then they are some "monster who hates their children", which is nonsense. So everyone says yes, of course kids are worth it! But since this is a somewhat anonymous board, hopefully people can be more forthcoming.

If a man in my situation goes down that path, we all know the risks are ENORMOUS, from trying to find a decent wife who can be a good mother, financial risks, every day lifestyle risk, etc etc. So will John Jr be worth all that???

Comments from dads very much appreciated.

- JG

Post: #2

Short answer, no.

Rant:
I've told my story on here a few times, but to re-hash... I made the mistake of knocking a girl up during college. I was only 20, she refused to go the abortion route, ended up giving birth to my son. I left school, shacked up with her, got a job, blah blah blah. About 2 years into this process, I was absolutely miserable and we split. She was a pretty shitty person and I didn't trust her with my son. I ended up paying HER "child support" to let ME keep our kid. Basically paying her off to not try and take me to court and fight for custody. After about 2 years of this, I got sick of it and took her to court to demand full legal custody. Obviously since I was the only parent he was used to living with (and her being unemployed), I won without much issue. My son is 7 now and he's awesome. I love doing all the cliche little league coaching and watching him grow. She's no longer around.

Having said this, I wouldn't recommend parenting to anyone. It's easy to romanticize it, but that shit wears off quickly. If you're going to be worth a damn as a parent, it's true that theres a ton of self-sacrifice. You'll lose some non-parent friends. Partying becomes difficult (but still manageable). You can't do anything on a whim. Everything needs to be planned and calculated. You constantly have someone else to think of, all of who's needs come before your own. You'll do it, and you'll do it without questioning much of it... but at times you'll reflect on what you're missing out on.

Maybe I'm a little biased, since I missed out on my 20's to be a parent. You and I are on opposite paths. When I'm 38, my kid will be 18 and I hope to start living it up a little more than I am now. Don't get me wrong, I still have my fun... but it takes a lot more planning to make it happen. At this stage in your life, I can understand where you're coming from. Just think long and hard about whether your ready to lose your current lifestyle and become 2nd place in your life.

And no offense, but GTFOH with this marriage crap. It isn't necessary to raise a happy well-adjusted kid and could actually be counterproductive when she inevitably becomes a fat slob who you hate and argue with on a daily basis. Find a woman who you like, someone you could be (or are currently) friends with, someone you may have some respect for. Someone that, when shit goes wrong, you'd still trust them alone with your kid. Parenting is great, but it will fuck with your head... don't compound that by getting sucked into a legally binding relationship. Shack up, live together, have a kid, do all that good shit... just stay away from the marriage title. Bad idea (in my opinion).

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TL;DR: I wouldn't recommend it, but everyone is different. Don't get married. Good luck.

Post: #3

This is an excellent question.

One of the greatest joys I have is teaching my son. Whether he gets excited about using tools to repair or build, or I see him use critical thinking skills I am working to ingrain into him, it brings joy to my spirit.

Old man. . . . young man. There is something pure about it, teaching a son, watching him grow, watching him take your teachings and lessons and apply them to his life.

Having a son is not a ball and chain. There is something there that is right and true, IF you are a real and faithful father to your son. This does not mean that sacrifice will not be called for.

Is getting married, committing to one woman, worth it?
I am of the belief that a proper and good son needs an intact family to be raised properly, therefore a mother needs to be present to teach her side of life. This is part of the price to be paid for of a ‘legacy’.

There is a payoff to having a son . . . . teaching, leading and loving him is damn powerful. Is the price to be paid to do so worth it? Some will say no, some will say yes. Which ever way you go, do it wholeheartedly, and no matter what may happen with the woman involved, if you say yes, the son does not get left behind to the feminist bullshit.

I am not sure that wanting a ‘legacy’ is enough of a reason to follow this path. Think on this carefully and deeply before making a move.

Post: #4

(01-20-2013 03:31 PM)Single Dad Swag Wrote:  Short answer, no.

Rant:
I've told my story on here a few times, but to re-hash... I made the mistake of knocking a girl up during college. I was only 20, she refused to go the abortion route, ended up giving birth to my son. I left school, shacked up with her, got a job, blah blah blah. About 2 years into this process, I was absolutely miserable and we split. She was a pretty shitty person and I didn't trust her with my son. I ended up paying HER "child support" to let ME keep our kid. Basically paying her off to not try and take me to court and fight for custody. After about 2 years of this, I got sick of it and took her to court to demand full legal custody. Obviously since I was the only parent he was used to living with (and her being unemployed), I won without much issue. My son is 7 now and he's awesome. I love doing all the cliche little league coaching and watching him grow. She's no longer around.

Having said this, I wouldn't recommend parenting to anyone. It's easy to romanticize it, but that shit wears off quickly. If you're going to be worth a damn as a parent, it's true that theres a ton of self-sacrifice. You'll lose some non-parent friends. Partying becomes difficult (but still manageable). You can't do anything on a whim. Everything needs to be planned and calculated. You constantly have someone else to think of, all of who's needs come before your own. You'll do it, and you'll do it without questioning much of it... but at times you'll reflect on what you're missing out on.

Maybe I'm a little biased, since I missed out on my 20's to be a parent. You and I are on opposite paths. When I'm 38, my kid will be 18 and I hope to start living it up a little more than I am now. Don't get me wrong, I still have my fun... but it takes a lot more planning to make it happen. At this stage in your life, I can understand where you're coming from. Just think long and hard about whether your ready to lose your current lifestyle and become 2nd place in your life.

And no offense, but GTFOH with this marriage crap. It isn't necessary to raise a happy well-adjusted kid and could actually be counterproductive when she inevitably becomes a fat slob who you hate and argue with on a daily basis. Find a woman who you like, someone you could be (or are currently) friends with, someone you may have some respect for. Someone that, when shit goes wrong, you'd still trust them alone with your kid. Parenting is great, but it will fuck with your head... don't compound that by getting sucked into a legally binding relationship. Shack up, live together, have a kid, do all that good shit... just stay away from the marriage title. Bad idea (in my opinion).

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TL;DR: I wouldn't recommend it, but everyone is different. Don't get married. Good luck.

This was funny.
College Sophomore accidentally fathers baby with random crazy girl, takes on the role of single dad american style, and complains that he isnt having enough fun. Recommends people not to have babies.

Post: #5

I don't recommend doing it in America. All my friends who have kids now are fucking miserable because their girlfriends broke up / divorced them because it was financially sound and easy to do so.

If you're going to marry, import a real woman from somewhere else. American women are toxic and they directly compete against your self interest for their own benefit. They don't give a fuck about you, your welfare, or your future children's welfare, no matter how much they might protest this fact.

Post: #6

(01-21-2013 12:13 AM)Hannibal Wrote:  I don't recommend doing it in America. All my friends who have kids now are fucking miserable because their girlfriends broke up / divorced them because it was financially sound and easy to do so.

If you're going to marry, import a real woman from somewhere else. American women are toxic and they directly compete against your self interest for their own benefit. They don't give a fuck about you, your welfare, or your future children's welfare, no matter how much they might protest this fact.

I would go further with this sentiment. Don't import, otherwise your wife may become assimilated and turn on you like Umfufu.

Expatriate.

Post: #7

Actually, yeah, I thought about it for a bit and I realized that it's a better idea to move somewhere else and raise a family, rather than importing a good woman to America because the feminism here will turn her into a "strong, liberated American whoah-man".

Post: #8

There are pros and cons but the issue has been studied, and statistically life satisfaction drops after having children.

Some people feel their breeding instincts and the related rewards more than do others. I did not enjoy my go at family life. It seems that some people are built for the father role more than are others; I honestly think it's not only about nurture. Some people have a stronger pull towards and get a greater kick out of that lifestyle. While others are nomads at heart, and would rather die fighting to maintain our freedom than offer it up in the service of our offspring in just one household.

Here's my plan. Make money and don't invest in any one girl until I'm 75. Then get 100 wives in 100 households, and knock them all up. Live to be a 150 year old cyborg.

The money you put into one kid when you're young could be invested and used to provision two or more, if you wait.

Post: #9

I'm in the exact same position as the OP. I will say that it will probably be tough and angsty (at lack of a better word) to get kids in our age when we still have a decade of hunting quality poon available to us. If you get a kid now second-guessing and regret is likely to pop up during your kid's first 5-7 years when all the work keeps you at home and exhausted.

BUT... I have resigned myself to this because I firmly believe it will be worth it by the time you hit your 50s. At this time you are again fully back into the game (should you desire it) while you still have a legacy whose achievements and merits are as much your own that now is going all the closer on being self-sufficient. You have to keep in mind that for the last 20-30 years of your life you will need some bright spots that do not come from just another notch.

Post: #10

I decided for myself that I wont get kids until age 45. This is because I want to get the experience to raise my kids in a GOOD way.
Having kids is natural, even for a man. But we don't live in nature anymore.
There are just too many people on the planet. In my opinion it's a crime to make kids when (s)he doesn't have the opportunities/knowledge to make it in this world.
To have kids I need:
1) extended knowledge about the world (=game) so I'm in control, not the wife.
2) each kid must receive from me:
-connections to build businesses
-the value of two houses so they have an asset to start with (house to rent out) and a place to live
-an education in a high rewarded university/business-school (to build the connections themselves)
-a car
-money for their development/hobbies
3) a good wife who is not a feminist but a nurturing loyal mother.

Post: #11

Marcellus so what if you don't find ms perfect and don't have the houses?

Post: #12

I don't understand the legacy stuff.

You would rather spend your time raising a kid so you can live through there accomplishments rather than accomplishing more on your own? Who the hell is going to remember you after 3 generations? I would rather experience everything I can before I die and having a kid would not be a situation that would allow it.

I was married once and for a short time. It was hell. I ended up giving up a lot of my free time for this "partnership".

After the divorce, it felt like heaven.

I am greedy about my time now. I have accomplished things that I wouldn't have been able to do if I was married. I see the same thing when having a kid.

I don't have kids. I don't need kids. If it were to happen I would still be happy. I take it as a "if it happens, it happens" sort of thing.

Post: #13

^Ditto the Legacy thing.

what is "Leaving a legacy" when it boils down to it?

We're all just worms scrabbling around on a rock. Maybe some worms will affect other worms more than others. Some worms will build or amass material things, some wont.

But we're all just bags of flesh scrabbling around on a rock with a dying sun that's going to explode and wipe out the solar system.

That's overly melodramatic and ridiculous of course, but it puts things into perspective. IMO if you want to use your next best 20 years to raise a kid, to be a father, a nurturing, loving parent and to create and live as part of a family, in this short little snapshot of history that we're alive in, go for it.

But leaving a legacy? On a universal scale, you will die, and then in sliver of a moment later, he will die too. Either of you may have rearranged the position of resources on earth some miniscule amount, but that's all. Having a kid for any kind of legacy reason doesn't make any sense to me. My 2c.

Post: #14

(01-21-2013 11:24 AM)RichieP Wrote:  ^Ditto the Legacy thing.

what is "Leaving a legacy" when it boils down to it?

We're all just worms scrabbling around on a rock. Maybe some worms will affect other worms more than others. Some worms will build or amass material things, some wont.

But we're all just bags of flesh scrabbling around on a rock with a dying sun that's going to explode and wipe out all the life here.

That's overly melodramatic and ridiculous of course, but it puts things into perspective. IMO if you want to raise kids to be a father, a nurturing, loving parent and to create and live as part of a family, go for it. But leaving a legacy? Having a kid doesn't make sense for that goal atall, IMO.

Whos got your back in your golden years? Your Russian girlfriend?

Post: #15

(01-21-2013 11:26 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  Whos got your back in your golden years? Your Russian girlfriend?

My ten Thai and Filipino nurses. The sponge baths will be more fun.

Being family doesn't necessarily mean they will back you up in the adult diaper years.

Besides, I would rather not live if I can't take care of myself.

Post: #16

(01-21-2013 11:30 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(01-21-2013 11:26 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  Whos got your back in your golden years? Your Russian girlfriend?

My ten Thai and Filipino nurses.

Being family doesn't necessarily mean they will back you up in the adult diaper years.

Besides, I would rather not live if I can't take care of myself.

You say that now but my mom is 72 and her joy comes from her grandkids and me and my sister watch her like a hawk. She has even told people trying to fuck with her..My son will kill you. Guess what..I will.

Having a kid isn't that hard anyway. You just have to set it up right. But..Once you're 70 if you don't have one you can't go back in time.

Post: #17

(01-21-2013 11:26 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(01-21-2013 11:24 AM)RichieP Wrote:  ^Ditto the Legacy thing.

what is "Leaving a legacy" when it boils down to it?

We're all just worms scrabbling around on a rock. Maybe some worms will affect other worms more than others. Some worms will build or amass material things, some wont.

But we're all just bags of flesh scrabbling around on a rock with a dying sun that's going to explode and wipe out all the life here.

That's overly melodramatic and ridiculous of course, but it puts things into perspective. IMO if you want to raise kids to be a father, a nurturing, loving parent and to create and live as part of a family, go for it. But leaving a legacy? Having a kid doesn't make sense for that goal atall, IMO.

Whos got your back in your golden years? Your Russian girlfriend?

Now we're getting down to it. So kids = an investment in your personal elderly care?

Well, that makes more practical sense at least. For me, I'd hope I wouldn't have kids for that as a primary reason though.

Post: #18

(01-21-2013 11:37 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  You say that now but my mom is 72 and her joy comes from her grandkids and me and my sister watch her like a hawk. She has even told people trying to fuck with her..My son will kill you. Guess what..I will.

I don't know, I would feel weird telling people to stop messing with me or my daughter will kill them. hah

Maybe I would regret it. I might also regret not doing some of the things I have always wanted to do. I might also regret not seeing some of the places I have always wanted to visit. Or not getting back into photography, or not building a 100 million dollar business...

As for joy, I don't have kids now and am pretty happy.

I don't understand why that would change when I am 72. I am not the type of person who lives for someone else. I have a lot of things I enjoy doing and can't see that ever changing.

Quote:Having a kid isn't that hard anyway. You just have to set it up right. But..Once you're 70 if you don't have one you can't go back in time.

I am going to be like this 94 year old.

Post: #19

I'm also wondering the same. I never liked kids but since my little niece has been born a few months ago, she totally stole my heart and love her to death. I've been wondering the same, how would it be to have my own kid with a woman I love and that loves me back? Of course, I'm not planning this anywhere near North America but either in Asia or South America or even Europe. I might do that in a few years but not now. I value my freedom more than anything else and I have not found a woman that a) i won't get bored/tired of after a few weeks and more importantly, that's sincere and that I can trust with my kid.

Post: #20

JG is in his upper 30's, economically independent, and can live anywhere he wants... for his situation and what he mentioned in the post...

YES, have kids... with a non-American/non-western woman, keep her and the kids outside the USA (which means you living outside the USA), AND don't get married. Depending on where you live, get side-by-side condos so you don't even live with her, but can see the kids daily while pretty much keeping the "family" intact. Or if you're willing to be monogamous and all-in, live with her.

But don't settle for just any random hot girl or you'll probably have unnecessary headaches like some of these guys mentioned. Screen their families hard.

So, let's explore this further for you...

1. What types/nationalities of girls are you into that aren't American?
2. Where would you consider living outside the USA?

Me: I'm married to a Colombian with 2 sons, living in Texas. I have proper control of my wife and run a tight ship, but I've seen disasters with bringing women to the USA and I also see marriages that are relatively happy, but the Colombian women are the bosses of the family. My marriage is fine, but I really can't live life banging just 1 woman. So I'll get a divorce in the next couple years, but make sure my wife and kids are living with me or on my property.

Kids ARE worth the pain in the ass and annoyances if you're willing to be a great dad and make sure they don't turn out to be like most of the rest of the kids who are average losers because their parents suck. IF you think your kid will turn out to be like an average American kid, then NO, it's not worth having kids. It's all on you, the dad, to be the leader and lead.

Mechanico, I'll put you in charge of recruitment of JG for our DR plantation if he's of like mind.

Post: #21

I know nothing about having your own kids, but from bitter and long personal experience I would interrupt this interesting discussion just to say: never, EVER, be a step-dad.

Post: #22

(01-21-2013 11:38 AM)RichieP Wrote:  Now we're getting down to it. So kids = an investment in your personal elderly care?

That's part of the reason for me but not as big a reason as an investment in your personal sanity and joy in the golden years.

Post: #23

I think I need to clarify what I said before about my mother saying my son will kill you..

When people are doing things to an older lady like trying to hard sell her something or invade her personal space she knows I'm going to find out so she kinda warns them because she knows what will happen if I have to track someone down for bullshit. She's my mother and has seen it all since day 1 so she will warn you. She does not run the streets threatening people it's more of for your own safety you don't want this so stop.

And..sad to say it does happen from time to time

Post: #24

my 2 cents. the love you have for your kids is something you will not know unless you have them. But if you never have kids its not like you missed on that love because you never experienced it in the first place to miss it.

look in nature how many fathers stay with their young? while i do think some men are naturally paternal, it is not encoded in all men. shit everytime a guy blows his load millions of potential offspring die. i think being conditioned to be a father is a result of social conditioning through the context of modern society, rather than it being innate nature in all men.

the best security you can have for old age is money, not children. there are no guarantees that your off spring will not dissapoint you and not visit you in a nursing home or take care of your expenses in old age.

Post: #25

(01-21-2013 05:00 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  I think I need to clarify what I said before about my mother saying my son will kill you..

When people are doing things to an older lady like trying to hard sell her something or invade her personal space she knows I'm going to find out so she kinda warns them because she knows what will happen if I have to track someone down for bullshit. She's my mother and has seen it all since day 1 so she will warn you. She does not run the streets threatening people it's more of for your own safety you don't want this so stop.

And..sad to say it does happen from time to time

I was just joking with you El. Hell, I am going to start going around town talking smack and letting them know ole El Mech will take care of them if they don't behave.