Post: #51

(01-08-2013 10:23 AM)Sakebomb Wrote:  I realized i made a crucial mis-thinking on my part. While it helps to have that confident can-do attitude, it was wrong of me to assume that is an "American" thing to do. You can be a confident can-do alpha without subscribing to the American spirit. My mistake was that, minutes ago, i assumed the "can do" attitude is somehow inherently American - hence describing it as "American can-do attitude," "dat American mindset," etc.

One "can do" things without being that.

Game on.

That mindset definitely IS more common in the US than in Europe. Where an American sees opportunities, the typical German for example will see danger ahead.
You cannot argue against cultural differences, they simply exist.


As for the American dream, I'm not sure whether it's still alive today. What many Americans try hard to achieve, a lot of Europeans simply take for granted.


Not directly related to the topic but still reflecting overall living standards in the US compared to other industrialized nations:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/10/health...html?_r=1&

Post: #52

Actually the US is considering a startup visa for "talented & specially skilled" immigrants. Tons of successful startups in US have been started by and grown by immigrants. From Google to many Networking & other companies.

There are positives to both the places but you have to ZOOM IN a bit.

The "CONTENT" ment aspect of Europe is good, The people at the bottom are not "under the line" but basics are met.

Those who want to Innovate, Perform, Do more beyond that can always do that and always do.. Be it US, EU, Asia, Africa etc.

The difference is that the BASIC NECESSITIES are available to ALL in the SOCIETY. Luxury & Achievement is left to peoples choices, actions and level of effort.

There is no LACK of Go-Getters ANYWHERE. The US just SHOWCASES and BRANDISHES itself a lot more. Companies have started all over.. I remember this small name called MIRABALIS ICQ from Israel - Way before any online messengers had come out.

There is an Indian S/W company that was never TALKED about more but most Global Banks run on their products. It was started as a little Center by a Major Bank but became an independent best of breed banking software products company and eventually got acquired by US Major.

Yes, there is ONE MAJOR POSITIVE DIFFERENCE. Because US has been Immigrant friendly, the TALENT MIX is higher. So they've got TALENT from EU, Asia, South America, etc.. everywhere.

The one major CASE in POINT here is.. the SF Bay Area. The culture of startups is super ingrained there. But, that is not America, that is SILICON VALLEY.

Such HUBs are coming up more, but they still have to catch up with the DYNAMICS of POSITIVE TRAITS that the Bay area brings.

It does also bring a history & tons of experience in Startups. Even some EU majors who got in to that space have setup BIG BASES in Silicon Valley. It has been a TALENT CENTER for long time.

But, I bet an environment where BASIC NECESSITIES are provided for all (like some EU Nations) and FACILITIES & BUSINESS ENVIRONMENT for Risk Takers & Innovators is available for all (INCLUDING.. Immigrants) (like SF Bay area), would be the best combination.

The biggest reason why some of the US companies have overtaken others esp in Silicon space was due to IMMIGRATION friendly environment.

Similar analysis can be made for different INDUSTRIES that are prevalent in other Cities etc. - NYC/ London (Finance), Paris/ Milan (Fashion), Some cities in US & EU for Oil/Gas/Energy companies who now are growing all over (as outlined in O&G thread) etc.

Post: #53

A side effect of the differences.

Bottom of pyramid Girl in the US - Eats crap, Low/No Education, Ghetto, Becomes Baby Mama Drama with BIG FAT ASSes.

Bottom of Scale Girl in the US - Basics, Education, Culture kind of better than the above girl.. Even with lesser money - Slim, High Heels, and better Fashion sense despite more expensive clothing & less shopping cash.

Post: #54

(01-09-2013 04:02 AM)Laner Wrote:  I am surprised that no one has mentioned the community and family units that are so predominant in Scandinavia. In terms of happiness, being part of a healthy community factors in as the most important part of being a happy person. Americans move around a lot. Family is usually out of state, and most people are living far away from where they grew up.

In Scandinavia family and friends are always close by. Some might find that hard to deal with, but it also keeps people honest. The general vibe of sitting at an outdoor long table as the sun hangs on past 10pm eating and drinking with a mix of family and friends of all ages is something that many Americans miss, but might not know it.

When I moved back from Sweden the "hustle" of America was thrown in my face and at first it was hard to get back into. I have always been proud of the starter mentality and motivation of the people here, but I also find myself missing the simple happiness of the people in Sweden as well.

Scandinavia has not always been successful, but they have always been strong willed and patient. When timing finally found its way there, they were more than ready for it and built a solid foundation for the future. If America found itself sitting on the type of wealth that Scandinavia found in the last half of the 20th century I would find it hard to believe that they would show the same restraint as Scandinavia did. Just look at Canada right now and just how fast we are plowing through the resources with no viable plan to take us into the next generations. Boom or Bust. Its sad, but culturally its how we tend to roll.

I have to agree with this to some degree and say that the SENSE of COMMUNITY and BELONGING is pretty much on the low end in the US.
That makes people insecure, very lonely deviants and dangerous.

Its a cut throat mentality. Dog eat Dog world. A very SELF-CENTERED way of looking at life. Not everyone and all, but more so.. than EU.

Community Support is non-existant.

All these lead to SERIOUS AMOUNT of PERFORMANCE/ ACHIEVEMENT ANXIETY.. > LEADs to STRESS > Bi-POLAR/ MENTAL issues & ADD Chicks.

The unbalanced heavy ego-centric life view is what makes the WOMEN, what they are becoming (again.. I am talking extreme ends).

There are always variations and exceptions.

Post: #55

I noticed that with the girl I dated that was living in Switzerland as well (Though she was born in Turkey but grew up in Austria). She was just content on living an average life. She was 31 so she had some experience with traveling and partying, but at this point in her life, she just wanted to meet someone and live and average life. She didn't care about being successful (At least monitarily). She made good money, as does just about everyone in Switzerland, but she eventually quit that job and mentioned not caring if the next job she had didn't make her good money. She wasn't very motivated. A lot of her friends seemed to be the same. I think what does it is in Switzerland and a lot of those scandinavian countries, its so easy to make live confortably that people aren't movtivated to over achieve. I mean I've never been to these places but I've met a shit ton of people from these places and dated a girl from there. They are typically pretty damn boring people as well. Not saying all of them, but a lot of them. My girl honestly didn't really like living there, it was just easy living.

Post: #56

A few decades ago what the OP said may have been true. Americans were motivated because they could actually live the American Dream.

But now we are all just peons being used by corporate America and the mega rich. You have a better chance of moving up in classes in most European countries nowadays.

Even an upper middle class family cannot afford $50,000 tuition at a private university or most other things that 50 years ago were accessible to middle class people. I think Americans are starting to realize that they are being used, but it is still sorta sad how people don't just enjoy life like Europeans and stop telling themselves that they can become the next Bill Gates.

The top tier of American society just uses everyone else because people still have this American dream mentality even though the country has become incredibly skewed toward the mega rich in the last 30 years.

Post: #57

"It really pays to have dat American mindset when it comes to swooping girls in ANY foreign country. Really. When most of the local population DO have shyness and reservations about initiating a relationship with strangers, the American "can do" attitude does come across as refreshing and interesting. And I have to say, a lot of material innovation and innovative lifestyles (and innovations in "the game") benefited from that American mindset. Again, I have to give credit to American culture for innovations in game."

My favoriate wingmen I met on trips are American and I like to hang out with them much more than others. It's like they have this drive and positivity that lacks in others. They make it seem interesting and you become more motivated,

I think that's the difference. It's like me coming from china, where everyone is so hard working and determined to a small city in Europe where I feel less motivated. American culture and people gives you motivation in my view, wether its swooping chicks, making money, designing an ipad, or building a rocket into space. Same thing in china, the government, society and culture gives people alot of motivation to work hard, innovate etc, thats why the country is growing rapidly.... On the other hand, does everyone need the American type culture in order to be motivated and become entrepreneurs/innovators? No, there are innovators in Europe that did not come from this culture.

However, if you look at the population AS A WHOLE, I think sometimes humans need a little bit of branding and marketing to push ourselves abit.

Post: #58

Here's an interesting piece on the Nordic model: http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21...supermodel

Quote: Government’s share of GDP in Sweden, which has dropped by around 18 percentage points, is lower than France’s and could soon be lower than Britain’s. Taxes have been cut: the corporate rate is 22%, far lower than America’s. The Nordics have focused on balancing the books. While Mr Obama and Congress dither over entitlement reform, Sweden has reformed its pension system (see Free exchange). Its budget deficit is 0.3% of GDP; America’s is 7%.

On public services the Nordics have been similarly pragmatic. So long as public services work, they do not mind who provides them. Denmark and Norway allow private firms to run public hospitals. Sweden has a universal system of school vouchers, with private for-profit schools competing with public schools. Denmark also has vouchers—but ones that you can top up. When it comes to choice, Milton Friedman would be more at home in Stockholm than in Washington, DC.

Post: #59

(01-07-2013 02:11 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(01-07-2013 10:16 AM)Aer Wrote:  Whenever I work out, I think of that end goal. That Arnie type build. Whenever the Finns work out, it's to keep in shape day to day.

Aren't a lot of the "Worlds Strongest Men" from Scandinavia?

I don't think "Arnie" was born in America either.

Unless maybe are you talking about Arnold Horshack?



Why would you want to look like him?

You're correct, if you are talking about Arnold Schwartzineger he was born in Austria.

Post: #60

(01-07-2013 10:16 AM)Aer Wrote:  While this may be culture shock at its best, I've noticed many disturbing things on my exchange trip to Scandinavia. I'm currently living in Helsinki at the moment, and I've been introduced to people from all over Europe and Scandinavia. Usually there are three things that makes me different from the rest of them.

Motivation, determination and dreams.

Maybe it's the fact that Americans are indoctrinated to believe that they can be anything, but it really is (in my opinion) a good thing. It really just bothers me that these Finns, Swedes, Norwegians, Danes and really any other Europeans just don't care how they live and are happy with what they have. (Thus the "Happiness Index" is so high)

Most Swedes and Finns live in a single apartment, do not care how much money they make, and live on the bare minimum, and they're happy. Now, I could live like that for a bit, but I have dreams I wish to pursue such as to have a bigger house, space to breathe, and an environment in which I would be happy. A goal.

Even most of these students from Europe want to be very normal things and live a basic life (e.g. teachers, workers behind a desk). Maybe it's just me, but its starting to wear me down. I've lost some work ethic and motivation just being here. It worries me.

Whenever I work out, I think of that end goal. That Arnie type build. Whenever the Finns work out, it's to keep in shape day to day. I cannot stand doing that. I have to have a goal in my mind. Whenever I do a policy brief for class (political science here), I think of me submitting one to the President and having him look over it.

Maybe it's not because I'm American.

Maybe it's because I'm in college. Maybe it's because of the red pill.

All I know is, stagnation and mediocrity make me sick. I hate to generalize, but that's all I'm seeing here so far.

But let's look on the bright side. I'm slaying pussy here so easily because of my mindset, it's like these girls have never seen anything like that before.

So cheers to that

West Europeans definitely seem to lack energy and idealism, it's not just that you're a student. It's one of the big reasons Western Europe is so depressing to live in long-term; it's like a museum or nursing home. The home of a kind of human that aspires to nothing and wants nothing very much.

Post: #61

(01-08-2013 08:35 PM)Jbk Wrote:  US and Western Europe are responsible for a huge portion of the innovation of the last century. Look at the numbers and you'll find success indicators are very similar.

Actually, the stats (productivity, patents, higher ed rankings) show that Europe got out of the innovation/civilization business after WWII. Don't know where you are getting numbers showing similar levels of success.

Post: #62

Any reason to think the people you are meeting are representative? I know a lot of foreigners who have studied at smaller, less selective schools in California and they came away with the impression US schools were full of lazy, pot smoking, video game playing, overweight 3rd world migrants.