Post: #1

I'm a sophomore in high school, and I'm beginning to start the whole college process and wanted some advice. I'm more interested in languages and economics/marketing, but everyone and and everything tell me I should pursue an Engineering degree. In your honest opinion, is going to a big 4-year school worth it if I don't get an engineering degree? Should I do 2 years at community college to cut downs costs, or is the social/party scene of a big public college worth the tuition money? Just looking for some guidance. Thanks

Post: #2

Buy college level, introductory finance and accounting books. Learn them thoroughly and get an internship before college. Get as many college credits in HS as you possibly can. Try and finish a finance/accounting degree in two years and hopefully have a full time job paying 60K or more when you're 20 years old.

That's what I would have done if I was more knowledgeable as a 16 year old.

Post: #3

(01-07-2013 10:13 AM)JCsteez Wrote:  I'm a sophomore in high school, and I'm beginning to start the whole college process and wanted some advice. I'm more interested in languages and economics/marketing, but everyone and and everything tell me I should pursue an Engineering degree. In your honest opinion, is going to a big 4-year school worth it if I don't get an engineering degree? Should I do 2 years at community college to cut downs costs, or is the social/party scene of a big public college worth the tuition money? Just looking for some guidance. Thanks

Here's my concern with going into engineering: It is no longer a ticket to a secure gravy train.

Twenty years ago the mantra from a lot of adults seemed to be "Engineering and/or the hard sciences are the keys to guaranteed financial success."

Today, considering how easily and routinely these jobs are outsourced and off-shored, this is no longer the case.

So I would say you had better a.) love engineering deeply AND b.) find a niche in which you will become a rock star before you consider a career in it.

At the very least, you should use an engineering education to gain expertise that will allow you to start your own business, sell products of your own making, etc.

And it sounds like you're not really passionate at all about engineering. That sets off a warning bell for me.

If money is tight, then yeah, there is absolutely nothing wrong with going the two-year route to gain skills that you can convert to income. If however you are a good student, there is probably a four-year public university in your state that will give you a full-ride for four years, or something darn close to that. That would be my first choice.

With any subject matter (marketing, engineering, whatever) I would be asking myself: Will studying THIS subject at THIS institution set me up to make money as my own boss?

I'm not saying you have to hang out your own shingle from Day One of your working life, but proceeding as if your life will lead up to this is a sound strategy.

Post: #4

(01-07-2013 10:36 AM)_GQ_ Wrote:  Buy college level, introductory finance and accounting books. Learn them thoroughly and get an internship before college. Get as many college credits in HS as you possibly can. Try and finish a finance/accounting degree in two years and hopefully have a full time job paying 60K or more when you're 20 years old.

That's what I would have done if I was more knowledgeable as a 16 year old.

How is this good advice? You're just projecting with this kid.

If you're going to give good advice, at least use his own background as a starting point.

OP, give us some more data.

How's your grades and what level courses are you taking in what subjects?

How are your parents doing financially, how much of college can they pay for and what's on your on dime?

Where do you live?

We need more info.

There's a lot of experienced and smart guys in here ready to help, but we need more info. Be succinct and to the point.

Post: #5

Thanks everyone for the responses so far. To add some back round: I have a cumulative GPA of 3.72 while taking the advanced courses offered for my grade level (calc, AP gov, other honors classes). I'm also in SGA and some other clubs including two sports. I live in Maryland. so UMD is a strong possibility. even though I'd rather go far away. My parents are wealthy enough to pay for most of my college tuition, money isn't really a huge deal, but that doesn't mean it's not a factor. Other than being pretty intelligent, I'm a great people person. Unless someone has some sort of bad predisposition towards me, I can get along with anyone, and I can usually convince them to do what I please. Money/government has always interested me, so I like my chances with economics, but I'm not sure I could persevere through law school to become a corporate lawyer. Owning my own business is the end goal, so a career enabling me to do that is optimal. Hope this helps give you guys some insight to my situation, and thanks again for your help.

Post: #6

bls.gov

Start there and just explore the possibilities and educational requirements. Don't get sold a false bill of goods like a lot of us.

And remember, people always need to eat and shit. So as long as there are people there will be some sort of demand in those industries.

Post: #7

The best major in the world is Applied Mathematics with a concentration in Computer Science.

:-)

Post: #8

(01-07-2013 10:13 AM)JCsteez Wrote:  economics/marketing,
4-year school worth it if I don't get an engineering degree?
community college to cut downs costs

A university give access a whole universe of knowlege. You can't do that at a community college. The University of Maryland is excellent, far better than a community college. If money is no big deal then in-state tuition there should be easy. You can take a couple economics course (they count toward general requirements) and a couple introductory business courses (probably accounting). What the hell, throw in an engineering course, a political science or government course and a language or culture course in your first two years. Finding what you like is the whole point of college.

You should take AP courses and languages in high school. Then you can graduate early or have more flexibility in college.

Post: #9

(01-07-2013 11:35 AM)Phil Wrote:  And it sounds like you're not really passionate at all about engineering. That sets off a warning bell for me.

I'm always concerned to hear this piece of conventional wisdom. I think it leads some teenagers on wrong paths. How can you be passionate about anything when you're 16-18 years old and don't have any life experience to know what to be passionate about?

It doesn't matter what you choose to do, as long as your persistently keep at it, eventually you will become good at what you do. And when you are good at what you do, you will become passionate about it.

Example: As long as a bad plumber keeps plumbing like there's no tomorrow, eventually you'll become a good and passionate plumber.

The initial emotional investment in passion is not nearly as important as the amount of persistence you are willing to put into your chosen field.

Post: #10

If you want to do finance a masters in economics from a good school opens a lot of doors. It's more cost effective than self financed law school or an MBA. Several of my friends majored in econ, got internships at the Fed, then went on to work for a large bank. Two year colleges can be ok, but the quality really varies. Also if you end up taking three years due to lack of class availability/motivation then you've basically blown your cost savings in opportunity cost. If you're in a good state it's better just to go to a good public university. Learn a few practical skills, like programming, statistical analysis, basic accounting, etc. And most importantly do an internship every summer! Get paid ones if you can. Like I said above the Fed has a great program that pays decently. Many banks will also offer paid internships.

Don't do science or engineering unless you want to do it and are pretty sure you'll be good at it. I'm now in a position where I hire engineers and oh lord are there a lot of shitty engineers out there. Good engineers still don't have a problem finding jobs but if you're just average it's no longer a guaranteed thing.

Post: #11

Do your absolute best on the SAT or whatever tests you take. I got 2000/2400 and got a full scholarship to my school. The grades you have junior year are the ones that show on apps so do not get into the mindset that you have time because it happens so fast. I graduated less than 2 years ago so I am pretty fresh.

Post: #12

If you're parents are wealthy then go to a bigger school. The experience will be like no other. A community college is more like high school.

Post: #13

(01-08-2013 01:09 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  I'm always concerned to hear this piece of conventional wisdom. I think it leads some teenagers on wrong paths. How can you be passionate about anything when you're 16-18 years old and don't have any life experience to know what to be passionate about?

I think it's a brilliant piece of wisdom. When I was in high school my chemistry teacher told me I didn't have what it'd take to be a scientist/engineer. It was hugely motivating. I showed that bitch.

Post: #14

Your choices sound okay as long as you stay on the math side of things. There is a lot of way to use stats and research in marketing, and few marketing majors are keen on doing so. My observations across a fairly wide range of people with varying backgrounds and economic opportunities:

1) Don't do CC unless you have no other financial options. Community Colleges vary widely; some have grade inflation while others have wicked curves where the 2 A grades go to non-trad moms who are trying to re-enter the workforce and have nothing else to focus on but school. Some of them tend to be overcrowded and difficult to get your core courses in, and may require more than a 2 year stint. Also, you're shaped by the people you surround yourself with in a profound way that you might not yet appreciate - *generally* (and this is not absolute, but *generally* speaking based on CC's admission profiles vs larger schools), CC students are not academic movers and shakers.

2) Unless you're looking at an elite or semi-elite school (Ivys + MIT, CalTech, Stanford, Chicago), go for scholarships. If a school can't pony up enough, don't go there. Top schools will throw financial aid at people whose parents are not in the top 1-5% of income earners. Don't consign your future to someplace that's good-but-not-elite (e.g., Tufts - a classic example) at around 6% compounding interest because you wanted to go to the best school you could get into. Beneath a fairly high level, go for scholarship money and focus on developing skills your peers don't have and networking. This is easy to do without anxiety when you don't have financial woes waiting for you at the end of the journey.

3) Go to a bigger school. I went to a tiny undergrad due to family circumstances and then went to a law school that was part of a much larger university. All things being equal, I would have preferred the larger university. At 18, I bought into some of the narrative about how you had better access to professors and better interactions with classmates at a small school. At a larger school, the access to professors is the same as small schools (you're still going through TA's and have to make the effort to reach them for the most part), and you're still going to primarily socialize with the same core group. At a large school, you just have more options to try new things. Unless you know yourself well enough to know you absolutely will not be able to function in that environment or will have problems with an addictive personality, go for the larger school.

4) Seconding blackglasses, kill the SAT. If you're not doing stuff like spending $6k to study "poverty" in central America already, you may be off the Ivy track - in which case, every 100 points you can add onto your SAT will translate into thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars in scholarship money at lower-ranked schools. I'd focus more on verbal, too; if you're leaning toward a STEM-ish field, you're probably proficient in math, which is now skewed toward higher scores since the test went from a 1600 to 2400 point scale. I'm not exactly sure why it happened, and I have my theories, but it did. Someone who scored in the mid 600's in math a decade ago would be crushing 700's now. Verbal remains much less skewed. Your mileage may vary.

5) Don't go to law school. Avoid grad school altogether if you can. College is not your endgame. Use it as a time to develop ideas that you can develop once you have the credential of a Bachelor's which, rightly or wrongly, a lot of people will look at you askance without. A college degree does not confer hustle, but it does open doors with people who want to see that you can stick with something and see it to completion over a series of years.

Post: #15

(01-08-2013 02:24 AM)jdevoy Wrote:  1) Don't do CC unless you have no other financial options. Community Colleges vary widely; some have grade inflation while others have wicked curves where the 2 A grades go to non-trad moms who are trying to re-enter the workforce and have nothing else to focus on but school. Some of them tend to be overcrowded and difficult to get your core courses in, and may require more than a 2 year stint. Also, you're shaped by the people you surround yourself with in a profound way that you might not yet appreciate - *generally* (and this is not absolute, but *generally* speaking based on CC's admission profiles vs larger schools), CC students are not academic movers and shakers.

I will have to disagree with you about community colleges. They are excellent to attend if used in the correct way, especially if they have articulation agreements with larger 4-year schools. There is really no need to pay all of that money to take Geography-101 or Sociology-101 (courses used to fulfill general education requirements).

As far as being "movers or shakers", that depends on your major and career industry. If you are going to enter majors like pre-med or business/accounting/finance where there is high competition, then maybe being a mover/shaker will play a role.

In majors like applied mathematics/computer science and some (not all) of the engineering fields, you basically have to just graduate and employers will ring your phone....and you can be from a 2+2 program (CC for 2 years, finish at 4-year).

I have been in software engineering for 20+ years and the #1 thing I have liked about my career is not really having any stress to compete all the damn time. As long as you keep up on the technology, you will be a commodity. You don't have to take any sh!t on the job from superiors because you can leave an employer and goto somebody else the next day.

...and THAT'S the private sector. When I got older, I went the government contracting route for even better job security and more pay.

Post: #16

STEM FTW.

Computer Science or Software Engineering as mentioned many times above, preferably.

Post: #17

(01-08-2013 01:09 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(01-07-2013 11:35 AM)Phil Wrote:  And it sounds like you're not really passionate at all about engineering. That sets off a warning bell for me.

I'm always concerned to hear this piece of conventional wisdom. I think it leads some teenagers on wrong paths. How can you be passionate about anything when you're 16-18 years old and don't have any life experience to know what to be passionate about?

It doesn't matter what you choose to do, as long as your persistently keep at it, eventually you will become good at what you do. And when you are good at what you do, you will become passionate about it.

Example: As long as a bad plumber keeps plumbing like there's no tomorrow, eventually you'll become a good and passionate plumber.

The initial emotional investment in passion is not nearly as important as the amount of persistence you are willing to put into your chosen field.

Persistence should be a given. But persistence is hard work. There has to be something to power a man through the long slog of the mandatory hard work he'll need to put in to be a success. A natural interest in the subject is a good start. Assuming a baseline IQ, I'm sure the OP could be a good engineer OR a good finance/marketing professional.

I just didn't see much interest in engineering from his first post.

Post: #18

I'm in an engineering student currently and I can honestly say that I don't enjoy the classes or preparing for tests or any of that. But what I do enjoy is building shit and bringing ideas and concepts into real life. I've been a fairly serious hobbyist for several years and wouldn't have any issues using my skills for work, some things just never get boring for me.
The problem with this is that without an engineering degree, I can't command enough attention or salary to make this kind of thing work out for a living. Unless the OP can relate to building shit I wouldn't recommend going through the hoops of getting a degree either.

Post: #19

Also consider ROTC/NROTC as a way to finance college and set you apart. It's three years active duty service if you get scholarship dough, but then at age 25 you'll be O2, have some dough saved up, and a cracking resumé.

Economics as a major is great! You'll be far more capable in deconstructing analytical problems, and for the more advanced courses you use everything you learn in math in high school (and more). Do the internships, and for God's sake make sure you spend at least one semester abroad.

Post: #20

The thing with engineering and IT is that it's still one of few careers where you'll receive an above average pay for a 40h work week. If you go into business, med or law the extra hours put into work have to be factored. It's about how willing you are to make work your life or something that finances your freetime.

I'm not saying that the biz/med/law path isn't worth it in the long run but you really have to make it priority in your life.