Post: #1

I am relatively new to game/lifestyle, etc. (just getting into this in my early to mid thirties) but fortunately I lucked into a lot of things naturally along the way.

Something that I've noticed is there's a huge community out there in regards to the "Four Hour Workweek" lifestyle - not being a slave to your job/career, being relatively free to use your time as needed rather than have to be physically present from 8-5 in an office every damn day.

You keep seeing "location independent" as a requirement - meaning jobs like web designer, promoter, etc. etc. pop up. What I've never seen is what I do (and obviously what all of my colleagues do) - it's a legitimate career, it pays well, and I honestly work 20 hours a week.

I'm in "sales". My exact title is "Territory Sales Manager". My boss is a "Regional Sales Manager". The people under me are "Sales Representatives". I work for a packaging company that makes plastic cups, tupperware, foam takeout containers, etc. etc. It's not glamorous (although in fairness to me, I cover 4 states and my territory grew to over $5MM in sales last year), but then again I don't often sell this shit myself... the distributor reps do that dirty leg work. They're the ones out there hustling for new accounts at 7:30AM while I'm still in bed. I honestly work less than 20 hours a week during a normal week (sometimes 10) I'll check my iPhone for important work emails, drag my ass out of bed by 9:30AM on a typical day so long as nothing urgent comes across, and I'll get out a few samples, submit pricing requests that reps need, and maybe meet a distributor rep out for lunch. My worst week will generally involve travel, so if you count travel (drivetime/airport time) those weeks are closer to 40. But the good news is that that puts me in new cities alone with nice hotel rooms and freetime once I'm there.

I'm happy to posting more about my career path, what I studied, my typical day-to-day, what my future career looks like if people are interested. I guess my point is that I always see these entrepreneurial type jobs listed as the ones guys who aim to be "free" need to work on, but I feel it's important to let others know that my "traditional, safe, boring" job can allow for the same. I literally see my boss 4 times a year, I literally make 6 figures, I literally drive a new Lexus that I'm reimbursed for, and I literally average less than 20 hours a week of work - all that WITH the benefits of working for a Fortune 1000 company (matching 401k, had a pension with previous company, solid career path, etc).

These jobs aren't hard to find and if you're personable and have a college degree in most anything you can get started in sales/sales management. I do feel like I'm a very bright guy and sometimes it honestly does eat at me that I'm not a Doctor, Lawyer, more glamorous entrepreneur, etc. It bugs me when girls I'm dating drop that their previous boyfriend or other guys they've dated recently are doctors, lawyers, etc. But then I look at the bigger picture - I make a really nice salary, don't kill myself, and have plenty of free time to stay active in the gym, pursuing my hobbies and value-adding pursuits, etc.

Post: #2

Sounds like a solid gig.

How long did it take you to work your way up to that position?

I'm finishing up school in the next year or two and have been thinking about sales as a starting point to build some experience and capital. With only 20 hours a week I could focus more of my time on other business ventures.

Post: #3

Im in an awesome spot too but Im uncanny good at my job. I think its shortsighted to say anybody can work and find jobs of this caliber. Some people just seem to be in the right place at the right time and/or crush it at the job. The same job I have is very intellectually taxing/stressful to some and they hate it.

Heres my situation: 135k salary a year, 5% matching. Work ~30hrs a week. No boss oversight. I work from home everyday (and have zero regulation on location in US). With the rare exception of telephone conferences, I literally have no set hours. I don't set an alarm.

I started off just 5 years ago making 40k in DC with the normal 9-5. A lot can change if you work hard and become awesome at your job.

Its a great salary but certainly not anything close to what some top dogs on here are making, but as for work/life balance, Ive got it made.

Post: #4

(01-05-2013 12:22 PM)wi30 Wrote:  Sounds like a solid gig.

How long did it take you to work your way up to that position?

I'm finishing up school in the next year or two and have been thinking about sales as a starting point to build some experience and capital. With only 20 hours a week I could focus more of my time on other business ventures.

I've been out of undergrad for 12 years now. My first job was a "Retail Coordinator" for a Fortune 500 company - I basically went to supermarkets and made sure that all of this company's SKU's were represented as they should be - that the "Plan O Gram" was followed, all the items were properly labeled and had facings, and if there were items out of stock I'd go into the back and try to find them and put them on the shelf. This is a common entry level sales job. It was a little less free time because you actually have to be in stores doing shit, but you learn ways to lie, etc.

I guess the caveat was that you'd have to find a company that isn't NARCish about monitoring you with GPS, phone, etc. I came up in the 2000's career wise before all of this tech. was possible and cheaply attainable. I'm fortunate to work for a company that values employee trust and doesn't monitor our movements in 2013.

I'd go to your school's career fairs and network and try to get on with a DeWalt or Black and Decker or Rubbermaid. Another way to search is to go to a large foodservice provider's website like Sysco or US Foodservice and look at their list of suppliers or venders. Tyson Chicken, McCain foods, Solo cups, etc. and then apply directly on all of these websites. You can also "reverse find" headhunters or recruiters this way and call THEM to have them put their ear on the ground for you.

You have to kick ass for 6 months and then you'll be able to start scaling back without anybody noticing.

I like how you think in regards to pursuing other fields/interests and that's why I like this site. Most of my colleagues are fat/alcoholic/lazy/white trash. They take this shit for granted. It pisses me off - we all have so much free time we could use at the gym, chasing women, fixing up rental properties for supplemental income, getting graduate degree, etc.

Post: #5

Does this job allows you to stay 4 months In DR, 3 months in Brazil and the summer in NY?

Dont get me wrong, i think you have a great job but the majority of us on this forum want to be completely free from corporate slavery. Keep on working, stack your cash and aim for freedom.

Post: #6

How does saying you are a "tupperware salesman" go over with the ladies?

Post: #7

(01-05-2013 01:06 PM)pitt Wrote:  Does this job allows you to stay 4 months In DR, 3 months in Brazil and the summer in NY?

Dont get me wrong, i think you have a great job but the majority of us on this forum want to be completely free from corporate slavery. Keep on working, stack your cash and aim for freedom.

The more I read up on these "location independent" careers the more I realize that no matter what it is or where you're doing it, work sucks. Roosh's blog post about his writing becoming a painful job, a chore to plow through, really struck a chord with me.

That's why I'm moving to the oil sands, working for 5-10 years to bank a million, and then "retiring" on the 40k dividend income. Permanently.

Fuck working for money.

Post: #8

(01-05-2013 01:23 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  How does saying you are a "tupperware salesman" go over with the ladies?

I spin it as "Sales manager in plastics industry". I also have an MBA so I'll divert and talk about shit like that or the side business I run, or the foreclosed rental property that I'm fixing up and how the others are faring, or I'll turn their seatwarmer up in my Lexus or I'll point out the Milwaukee River/downtown skyline from my bed. It does suck that my field is borderline embarrassing but fuck it - if I could have my income/lifestyle or that of an attorney for a large firm making $50k more but working 30 hours more per week (plus commute) I'd pick my lifestyle 10 times out of 10. It sucks that MBA's are so devalued these days - most attorneys have shitty lives and don't make that much anyway yet they automatically have great prestige.

Post: #9

(01-05-2013 01:47 PM)MikeinMKE Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 01:23 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  How does saying you are a "tupperware salesman" go over with the ladies?

I spin it as "Sales manager in plastics industry". I also have an MBA so I'll divert and talk about shit like that or the side business I run, or the foreclosed rental property that I'm fixing up and how the others are faring, or I'll turn their seatwarmer up in my Lexus or I'll point out the Milwaukee River/downtown skyline from my bed.

Smooth.

Post: #10

(01-05-2013 01:47 PM)MikeinMKE Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 01:23 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  How does saying you are a "tupperware salesman" go over with the ladies?

I spin it as "Sales manager in plastics industry". I also have an MBA so I'll divert and talk about shit like that or the side business I run, or the foreclosed rental property that I'm fixing up and how the others are faring, or I'll turn their seatwarmer up in my Lexus or I'll point out the Milwaukee River/downtown skyline from my bed. It does suck that my field is borderline embarrassing but fuck it - if I could have my income/lifestyle or that of an attorney for a large firm making $50k more but working 30 hours more per week (plus commute) I'd pick my lifestyle 10 times out of 10. It sucks that MBA's are so devalued these days - most attorneys have shitty lives and don't make that much anyway yet they automatically have great prestige.

Haha, smooth, but comeon, "milwaukee skyline"? You mean the US bank building?

Post: #11

(01-05-2013 01:58 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 01:47 PM)MikeinMKE Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 01:23 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  How does saying you are a "tupperware salesman" go over with the ladies?

I spin it as "Sales manager in plastics industry". I also have an MBA so I'll divert and talk about shit like that or the side business I run, or the foreclosed rental property that I'm fixing up and how the others are faring, or I'll turn their seatwarmer up in my Lexus or I'll point out the Milwaukee River/downtown skyline from my bed. It does suck that my field is borderline embarrassing but fuck it - if I could have my income/lifestyle or that of an attorney for a large firm making $50k more but working 30 hours more per week (plus commute) I'd pick my lifestyle 10 times out of 10. It sucks that MBA's are so devalued these days - most attorneys have shitty lives and don't make that much anyway yet they automatically have great prestige.

Haha, smooth, but comeon, "milwaukee skyline"? You mean the US bank building?

Damn.

Never been to Milwaukee before, or seen the "skyline", but that is pretty bootleg.

Post: #12

(01-05-2013 01:49 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  Smooth.

One of the guys who lives in my building is an attorney - a little younger than me. He has the same nice car and obviously makes good money, but the thing is the poor dude is leaving every morning at 7:45AM and then I see him sitting at the bar of the restaurant in our building at 6:30PM just getting back from work, nursing a scotch. It's glamorous in a Don Draper sort of way I suppose and he does well with ladies. But I do equally well, get to go to the gym 5 days a week on company time, and do a lot of other side shit as well.

I'd be okay with his life but I'd prefer mine.

Post: #13

(01-05-2013 01:58 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  Haha, smooth, but comeon, "milwaukee skyline"? You mean the US bank building?

Haha fair point. I was in Minneapolis over holidays and when I drove back into Milwaukee I laughed at how tiny it is. But when you live in Milwaukee or Austin or Nashville for a while you get immersed in "your world" and it becomes big to you if that makes sense. I'd love to upgrade to Chicago or Minneapolis in a few years with a better job but the problem is the cost of living is so much higher there - I'll be lucky to even approach the lifestyle I carved out here in a mid-major market. Walking to a Bucks game on a random Tuesday night and sitting near-courtside with a buddy for $50 a ticket off Stubhub is amazing. I treasure the hell out of this little city.

Post: #14

(01-05-2013 12:38 PM)MikeinMKE Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 12:22 PM)wi30 Wrote:  Sounds like a solid gig.

How long did it take you to work your way up to that position?

I'm finishing up school in the next year or two and have been thinking about sales as a starting point to build some experience and capital. With only 20 hours a week I could focus more of my time on other business ventures.

I've been out of undergrad for 12 years now. My first job was a "Retail Coordinator" for a Fortune 500 company - I basically went to supermarkets and made sure that all of this company's SKU's were represented as they should be - that the "Plan O Gram" was followed, all the items were properly labeled and had facings, and if there were items out of stock I'd go into the back and try to find them and put them on the shelf. This is a common entry level sales job. It was a little less free time because you actually have to be in stores doing shit, but you learn ways to lie, etc.

I guess the caveat was that you'd have to find a company that isn't NARCish about monitoring you with GPS, phone, etc. I came up in the 2000's career wise before all of this tech. was possible and cheaply attainable. I'm fortunate to work for a company that values employee trust and doesn't monitor our movements in 2013.

I'd go to your school's career fairs and network and try to get on with a DeWalt or Black and Decker or Rubbermaid. Another way to search is to go to a large foodservice provider's website like Sysco or US Foodservice and look at their list of suppliers or venders. Tyson Chicken, McCain foods, Solo cups, etc. and then apply directly on all of these websites. You can also "reverse find" headhunters or recruiters this way and call THEM to have them put their ear on the ground for you.

You have to kick ass for 6 months and then you'll be able to start scaling back without anybody noticing.

I like how you think in regards to pursuing other fields/interests and that's why I like this site. Most of my colleagues are fat/alcoholic/lazy/white trash. They take this shit for granted. It pisses me off - we all have so much free time we could use at the gym, chasing women, fixing up rental properties for supplemental income, getting graduate degree, etc.

Thanks for the tips. I want to get into real estate investing and developing but it's hard to do right out of college. Plus sales experience can help you in many aspects of your life(future start-ups, girls, bullshitting people in general, etc.).

(01-05-2013 02:07 PM)MikeinMKE Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 01:58 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  Haha, smooth, but comeon, "milwaukee skyline"? You mean the US bank building?

Haha fair point. I was in Minneapolis over holidays and when I drove back into Milwaukee I laughed at how tiny it is. But when you live in Milwaukee or Austin or Nashville for a while you get immersed in "your world" and it becomes big to you if that makes sense. I'd love to upgrade to Chicago or Minneapolis in a few years with a better job but the problem is the cost of living is so much higher there - I'll be lucky to even approach the lifestyle I carved out here in a mid-major market. Walking to a Bucks game on a random Tuesday night and sitting near-courtside with a buddy for $50 a ticket off Stubhub is amazing. I treasure the hell out of this little city.

I prefer small to mid-sized cities as well. I know most of the members here prefer top tier cities but I would take a tier 2 or 3 city over a NYC or LA almost every time. People are more genuine in smaller cities and it doesn't cost $15 for a cocktail.

Post: #15

Mike thanks for dropping some knowledge on this subject. This topic has been kind of on my mind lately because I've just gotten into sales out of university.

I have a few questions. You gave a little info about what your first job was like starting out but how was it when you entered into the Sales Rep role and had to perform well and hit some numbers? It must have taken some paying your dues to get to the level of freedom you have right? And have you worked for a few companies to get to your level or did you stick with one and rose up?

Post: #16

(01-05-2013 01:47 PM)MikeinMKE Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 01:23 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  How does saying you are a "tupperware salesman" go over with the ladies?

I spin it as "Sales manager in plastics industry". I also have an MBA so I'll divert and talk about shit like that or the side business I run

There is no shame in making money, specially when you are doing well. If I where in that position, that would be exactly my response to "What do you do?"

I sell Tupperware.

Post: #17

I don´t think this new age work week is set in stone, this is like how it has to be. I think the key is getting to do something that you really love, with freedom, all the while receiving a really good income.

You will probably get the highest wage anyhow if you choose to do something that you have a passion for. Because, ultimately, that´s where you will be GREAT.

Post: #18

(01-05-2013 12:36 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  Im in an awesome spot too but Im uncanny good at my job. I think its shortsighted to say anybody can work and find jobs of this caliber. Some people just seem to be in the right place at the right time and/or crush it at the job. The same job I have is very intellectually taxing/stressful to some and they hate it.

Heres my situation: 135k salary a year, 5% matching. Work ~30hrs a week. No boss oversight. I work from home everyday (and have zero regulation on location in US). With the rare exception of telephone conferences, I literally have no set hours. I don't set an alarm.

I started off just 5 years ago making 40k in DC with the normal 9-5. A lot can change if you work hard and become awesome at your job.

Its a great salary but certainly not anything close to what some top dogs on here are making, but as for work/life balance, Ive got it made.

Would you like to give some more information?

Post: #19

(01-05-2013 02:01 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  Never been to Milwaukee before, or seen the "skyline", but that is pretty bootleg.

Makes Cincinnati look like a world-class skyline:

[attachment=9388]

Post: #20

Damn guys - let the man enjoy his view. lol I'm sure it's still pretty sweet to wake up to.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #21

(01-06-2013 04:20 AM)w00t Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 12:36 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  Im in an awesome spot too but Im uncanny good at my job. I think its shortsighted to say anybody can work and find jobs of this caliber. Some people just seem to be in the right place at the right time and/or crush it at the job. The same job I have is very intellectually taxing/stressful to some and they hate it.

Heres my situation: 135k salary a year, 5% matching. Work ~30hrs a week. No boss oversight. I work from home everyday (and have zero regulation on location in US). With the rare exception of telephone conferences, I literally have no set hours. I don't set an alarm.

I started off just 5 years ago making 40k in DC with the normal 9-5. A lot can change if you work hard and become awesome at your job.

Its a great salary but certainly not anything close to what some top dogs on here are making, but as for work/life balance, Ive got it made.

Would you like to give some more information?

Id rather not publically divulge, but it requires a minimum of an Engineering degree. That takes the wind out of most peoples sails.

Post: #22

(01-06-2013 06:10 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Damn guys - let the man enjoy his view. lol I'm sure it's still pretty sweet to wake up to.

Ha. I was completely joking.

Post: #23

Some original knowledge dropped here, thanks Mike. I wish I lived in a town where being an attorney was considered prestigious. Here being a bartender is prestigious. I bet I know what _DC_ does, but for the sake of his privacy, I'm not going to say anything.

Post: #24

(01-06-2013 05:15 AM)MSW2007 Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 02:01 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  Never been to Milwaukee before, or seen the "skyline", but that is pretty bootleg.

Makes Cincinnati look like a world-class skyline:

Cincy is an AWESOME town. I heard nothing but bad shit about it but it's really upscale, great layout with trendy hotels, art museum, restaurants, bars, shopping, etc. Way better than Milwaukee and easily one of the 5 most under-appreciated cities in America. I'd swap my town for Cincy immediately.

Post: #25

(01-06-2013 11:12 PM)MikeinMKE Wrote:  

(01-06-2013 05:15 AM)MSW2007 Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 02:01 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  Never been to Milwaukee before, or seen the "skyline", but that is pretty bootleg.

Makes Cincinnati look like a world-class skyline:

Cincy is an AWESOME town. I heard nothing but bad shit about it but it's really upscale, great layout with trendy hotels, art museum, restaurants, bars, shopping, etc. Way better than Milwaukee and easily one of the 5 most under-appreciated cities in America. I'd swap my town for Cincy immediately.

People rip on Cincinnati a lot, but I don't try to convince people anymore about what a great place this is. We're no Chicago or NYC, but we live decently here.

That said, here are ten reasons why I like Cincinnati (among others):

1.) Three major colleges. In the neighborhood where the University of Cincinnati is located there are probably 20,000 women between the ages of 18 and 24 roaming around. Then there's Xavier University and Northern Kentucky University, also of decent size.

2.) Our airport serves very few international flights but I can go almost anywhere worthwhile in the U.S. on a nonstop flight. Multiple flights daily to Chicago, L.A., San Francisco, Vegas, Boston, etc. The local airport services flights almost every day to five different cities in Florida alone.

3.) The influence from immigrants is strong, especially from Germans and Italians. I'm friends with a few local Italian families, and the matriarchs of each are unbelievable cooks. German cuisine and beer also left a big impact - we have multiple local breweries, and Sam Adams brews 65% of its beer in Cincinnati, not Boston. Some of the city's oldest bars still operating started out as beer gardens for German immigrants. There's also been a wave of new immigation, especially from India, Lebanon, Latin America, etc.

4.) Lots of festivals, museums, etc. There are at least a dozen major festivals downtown every year, and we have some kickass museums - The Cincinnati Art Museum has pieces by Van Gogh, Picasso, Monet, Warhol, and others. The Cincinnati Museum Center at Union Terminal is housed in an art-deco rail station, bringing three museums together under one roof, plus an IMAX theater. Union Terminal also services passenger train travel aboard the Cardinal between Chicago and D.C.

5.) Sports for every season. Spring through autumn, everybody is sporting Reds MLB attire. Bengals during the fall. Bearcat football and basketball. Xavier basketball. Cyclones hockey.

6.) The cost of living here is quite reasonable, which I detail here. My rent, utilities, groceries, and misc. spending (laundry, etc.) total around $700 per month. Another $100.00 gets me high speed internet, cable, and a cell phone. I have friends with roommates that live even cheaper than I do. You can rent a three bedroom house here in a reasonable neighborhood for $700-$1,000.00 per month. Housing prices have remained quite stable, since we didn't see ballooning real estate values as in California and other places.

7.) The job market here is quite stable, both blue collar and white collar. I'm not sure of our unemployment rate but if you've got a driver's license and can pass a drug test there's plenty of work.

8.) Our city core is being revitalized into a worthwhile destination. Ten years ago, Over-the-Rhine, a neighborhood just north of downtown, was known for multi-generation project apartments, and gang violence. Significant investment in the area has completely transformed the neighborhood, and those neighborhoods surrounding it.

9.) The people here are friendly and accepting. Since the 2001 riots, the national media has liked to portray Cincinnati as a city torn apart by racial apartheid, but it's not true. Interracial dating is common and accepted. Multiple working and middle class neighborhoods consist of blacks and whites living side by side. People here are more likely to make eye contact with strangers and say hello, than in a lot of other places I've visited.

10.) The women here do not have the high bitch shields of women in larger cities like N.Y., D.C., L.A., etc. Concerning this point, some time ago I wrote a Bang Cincinnati data sheet.