My tone was more harsh, now that i read through it, than I intended. After going through so many pages, I just want us to all get along and get back to basics. Have fun, sure, but advice is what we should all be here for.

I can't use my height, since it's probably my most delibilitating feature. I think you're right though Forset; less is more. I hate that about women on Tinder.

How tall are you again?

I'm 5'8 and I put 5'9. Women aren't as spatially aware as men are. Unless she's the height you're pretending to be then she won't know, especially if you have good posture and don't wear flat shoes. Don't feel bad about lying. Women wear make-up, heels and do other things to manipulate your perception, so you can even the odds on your own end.

Edit: Honestly, I find the whole height thing exaggerated. I think women claim to not like short guys so that short guys don't bother trying, which then shows the girl that he isn't confident, which then saves the girl from having to figure that out later as opposed to sooner. If you're bad ass, it shows in your overall vibe.

Honestly, solid advice. I'm 5'6,” but I have a really high close ratio on a date (I'm sure that's not totally unique, bit I know of many who don't). I try to be incredibly creative and am stronger in the moment. So, I can see this working. Good analogy with the makeup.

Agreed. Less is more.

Sometimes I'll put up a list of intl cities I've been to recently.

Or I'll put something silly like "My tacos are way better than your tacos"

(09-13-2014 04:22 PM)Fortis Wrote:  ^ A rather incendiary first post, don't you think?

When it comes to "about me," less is more. I just put my height. I used to have a quote there, but I find that I get fewer matches when I try to be all witty and interesting. Your pictures should speak for you.

(09-13-2014 04:54 PM)Clint Barton Wrote:  Or I'll put something silly like "My tacos are way better than your tacos"

(09-13-2014 04:22 PM)Fortis Wrote:  ^ A rather incendiary first post, don't you think?

When it comes to "about me," less is more. I just put my height. I used to have a quote there, but I find that I get fewer matches when I try to be all witty and interesting. Your pictures should speak for you.

I'm stealing that taco thing.

(09-13-2014 03:46 PM)Fortis Wrote:  Still, not listening to good-looking guys in regards to dating is a lot like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Can you do EVERYTHING that a 6'4, mesomorph with 6 pack abs and a $250,000 car can do? Probably not? But there are probably some things you can take from his game. Maybe he's very easy going, maybe he's audacious in a way that you didn't think could work. Maybe he has a way of story telling that really sucks girls in. It's better to try and see what you can learn from someone rather than seeing what you can't learn (height, looks, etc).

You have to try someone's game out before you write it off as a consequence of something outside of your control.

If you're unwilling to try something that someone suggests then that's kinda weak.

What is "kinda weak?" A guy's decision NOT to try something is "kinda weak?"

I would suggest that it may NOT be a very good use of time for some guys to experiment with certain activities when the dynamic may NOT be applicable to his circumstances. Of course, this can be a matter of personal choice and a matter of degree, and guys should come to their own assessments regarding what to try and what NOT to try based on his own consideration of his circumstances.

What was suggested by me, in my above post, and seemingly suggested by Speakeasy is for guys to take certain advice "with a grain of salt" and consider the applicability of that advice to a guy's own circumstances (which may result in the conclusion of NO need to experiment with certain activities because from his experience and knowledge of himself a guy has already concluded that certain experiments would be a big ass waste of his time).

Otherwise, we are saying similar things that guys can still learn from one another and from a variety of scenarios but to consider his own attributes in the context of the scenarios that he finds himself in or contemplating.

I don't understand the point or purpose in this situation of your characterizing some of our perspective(s) or planned strategies as "kinda weak?"

(09-13-2014 04:09 PM)AmateurHour Wrote:  I came here to look for some advice on my opening "About me" bullshit. Honestly, guys, stop with the pessimism please. Of course women are catching on to this ap. They are shallow bitches. We created this problem. Now, let's innovate and progress past the shortcomings.
Both of my pics are professional and make me look like a 7 or even a 7.5, but I actually struggle with women IRL. Mainly because I weigh 135 lbs. soaking wet. Please, give up the argument before you start it; think of the simple, statistical limitations with women I have at 5'6"/ 135 lbs. and it should make sense. I get to where I am through personality and style.
The problem with my pics (though they are good) is that I don't and won't try to embelish this weight. So, I have a lot of women swipe left, just as most of you do. I average maybe 3 matches a day still, some days more than others.
I've improved immensely on my message game thanks to Roosh and my own innovative creativity. I average a 40% closing ratio with the girls that have swiped right, including the ones I lose interest in. This has resulted in three smashes this week alone, rated at a 5.5, 6, and 7.5 respectively. Though I tend to hold out for more prestigious women IRL, I find this method is simultaneously boosting both my confidence and skill set. If I can do this, seriously guys, so can you. I'm not incredibly attractive, not incredibly smart, and not incredibly rich like a lot of the guys posting here.
So CUT THE BULLSHIT. First message DOES matter. I have a few highly successful lead ins I will share at request. I can post screenshots as well.

That being said, I'd be more inclined to a trade. If someone can help me with a proven, witty "About me" section, I will unload everything I've picked up on the messaging front. I love Roosh. Almost all other forums are golden. I really want you guys to step it up here and remember what we came for: advice; comradery; creative ideas; progression/ protection of the upperhand men SHOULD have on the "market." Thanks for reading. Please, take it into serious consideration.

There is NOTHING wrong with sharing your experiences, and describing what strategies you employ to attempt to achieve greater success in using Tinder, game or other strategies.

NONETHELESS, I have some concerns why you feel any kind of need to characterize some of the other ideas of guys in this thread, as "bullshit," and why you launch so enthusiastically into giving advice prior to providing information about yourself in order that we can get to know you.

(09-13-2014 06:30 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(09-13-2014 03:46 PM)Fortis Wrote:  Still, not listening to good-looking guys in regards to dating is a lot like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Can you do EVERYTHING that a 6'4, mesomorph with 6 pack abs and a $250,000 car can do? Probably not? But there are probably some things you can take from his game. Maybe he's very easy going, maybe he's audacious in a way that you didn't think could work. Maybe he has a way of story telling that really sucks girls in. It's better to try and see what you can learn from someone rather than seeing what you can't learn (height, looks, etc).

You have to try someone's game out before you write it off as a consequence of something outside of your control.

If you're unwilling to try something that someone suggests then that's kinda weak.

What is "kinda weak?" A guy's decision NOT to try something is "kinda weak?"

I would suggest that it may NOT be a very good use of time for some guys to experiment with certain activities when the dynamic may NOT be applicable to his circumstances. Of course, this can be a matter of personal choice and a matter of degree, and guys should come to their own assessments regarding what to try and what NOT to try based on his own consideration of his circumstances.

What was suggested by me, in my above post, and seemingly suggested by Speakeasy is for guys to take certain advice "with a grain of salt" and consider the applicability of that advice to a guy's own circumstances (which may result in the conclusion of NO need to experiment with certain activities because from his experience and knowledge of himself a guy has already concluded that certain experiments would be a big ass waste of his time).

Otherwise, we are saying similar things that guys can still learn from one another and from a variety of scenarios but to consider his own attributes in the context of the scenarios that he finds himself in or contemplating.

I don't understand the point or purpose in this situation of your characterizing some of our perspective(s) or planned strategies as "kinda weak?"

Perhaps I misread the original posts. It just seemed as though people were being a bit negative and attributing the success(es) of others to their looks and not to their game. That is unfair.

I think discounting advice from certain people on the basis of their looks is weak--to a certain extent. Obviously, A good looking celebrity isn't going to dispense good advice for the average man because he has looks and fame on his side and can pull on those things alone. But I think a good looking guy can dispense reasonable advice to an average looking man if the good looking man is game aware. I'm certain that there are good looking posters on this site who could teach us average men things.

I think we can agree that there are certain principles of game that transcend looks: fitness, style, social skills, charisma. A guy can teach you these things regardless of how much better he looks than you.


I didn't mean to insult anyone, so if you took it that way, then I apologise.

(09-13-2014 06:39 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

(09-13-2014 06:30 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(09-13-2014 03:46 PM)Fortis Wrote:  Still, not listening to good-looking guys in regards to dating is a lot like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Can you do EVERYTHING that a 6'4, mesomorph with 6 pack abs and a $250,000 car can do? Probably not? But there are probably some things you can take from his game. Maybe he's very easy going, maybe he's audacious in a way that you didn't think could work. Maybe he has a way of story telling that really sucks girls in. It's better to try and see what you can learn from someone rather than seeing what you can't learn (height, looks, etc).

You have to try someone's game out before you write it off as a consequence of something outside of your control.

If you're unwilling to try something that someone suggests then that's kinda weak.

What is "kinda weak?" A guy's decision NOT to try something is "kinda weak?"

I would suggest that it may NOT be a very good use of time for some guys to experiment with certain activities when the dynamic may NOT be applicable to his circumstances. Of course, this can be a matter of personal choice and a matter of degree, and guys should come to their own assessments regarding what to try and what NOT to try based on his own consideration of his circumstances.

What was suggested by me, in my above post, and seemingly suggested by Speakeasy is for guys to take certain advice "with a grain of salt" and consider the applicability of that advice to a guy's own circumstances (which may result in the conclusion of NO need to experiment with certain activities because from his experience and knowledge of himself a guy has already concluded that certain experiments would be a big ass waste of his time).

Otherwise, we are saying similar things that guys can still learn from one another and from a variety of scenarios but to consider his own attributes in the context of the scenarios that he finds himself in or contemplating.

I don't understand the point or purpose in this situation of your characterizing some of our perspective(s) or planned strategies as "kinda weak?"

Perhaps I misread the original posts. It just seemed as though people were being a bit negative and attributing the success(es) of others to their looks and not to their game. That is unfair.

I think discounting advice from certain people on the basis of their looks is weak--to a certain extent. Obviously, A good looking celebrity isn't going to dispense good advice for the average man because he has looks and fame on his side and can pull on those things alone. But I think a good looking guy can dispense reasonable advice to an average looking man if the good looking man is game aware. I'm certain that there are good looking posters on this site who could teach us average men things.

I think we can agree that there are certain principles of game that transcend looks: fitness, style, social skills, charisma. A guy can teach you these things regardless of how much better he looks than you.


I didn't mean to insult anyone, so if you took it that way, then I apologise.

In the end, we may be saying very similar things, and certainly, guys are going to come to varying conclusions about what is mutable and what is NOT mutable in their own situation(s).

You list a few important characteristics but some of these characteristics overlap and some characteristics fall into the looks department (for example face looks, or physical fitness or how one dresses or photos could all be considered looks).

As we all likely realize, there are some characteristics that guys can change about his looks and some characteristics that are NOT easy to change, same with money and social circles and game.

Some aspects of each of the different categories (looks, money, social circle and game) can be worked on, but if a guy is extremely deficient in all of the areas, then he will need to decide for himself regarding how to prioritize his time and which areas that he believes that he should work on first (or which combination) or even if he needs to work on any of the areas because he believes that he is already well-endowed in all areas.. hehehehehe.

Ultimately, even if you, Fortis, did NOT mean to insult anyone, if you are suggesting a strategy is "weak" or "kinda weak," or bordering on "weak," then you may choosing inflammatory words that make it appear that you may be jumping to conclusions regarding the totality of the package that guys are working with.

Surely, there were a few guys, even participating in this thread, that seem to be emphasizing too much on looks as a sort of fatalism, but the large majority of guys in this thread seem to have been considering looks as one of many factors and also several guys have been suggesting (whether correct or NOT) that Tinder seems to disproportionately reward guys who are well-endowed in the looks department.

I have a fairly thick skin, so it takes quite a bit before I would feel personally insulted, but sometimes I do tend to chime in when it seems to me that opinions (including my own) are being attacked, categorized and/or pigeon-holed into something other than what they were in what appears merely to devolve into a form of self-aggrandizement rather than constructive sharing of viewpoints.

(09-13-2014 01:56 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(09-11-2014 11:32 PM)Sourcecode Wrote:  You guys that aren't successful on tinder are simply ugly.

Also, if Sourcecode is killing it on Tinder, then he's probably a well above average looking guy, maybe an 8 or higher. So that then explains much of the success he speaks about in his European adventures. This all reminds me of the thread about taking advice from good-looking guys with a grain of salt. They have no idea what it's like to be average and they think have great game when in reality most of their success is due to luck of being born with good facial genetics.

speakeasy, in Sourcecode's mind he is a 10. In reality he is decent looking but nothing amazing face wise, tall and in decent shape, medium-dark black guy. He's no male model like you seem to think he is, I would not pin his success on his looks like you have.

Back on Tinder after a hiatus, and decided to try this opener, "Hey, what's up?"

I cringed when I sent it, but I got her number after some basic conversation. She is an 8 with a great rack.

If a girl was born in x country and lived there for y years? How many years does y have to be for it to count as an international flag?

(09-16-2014 03:14 PM)Mentavious Wrote:  If a girl was born in x country and lived there for y years? How many years does y have to be for it to count as an international flag?

I had to LOL when I saw this post because NOT only does it seem like a trick question, and I am having a difficult time coming up with an answer besides - just use your best judgement concerning the extent to which you think z girl or her family has failed to assimilate to the new country.... and if she is an illegal immigrant, then that would likely count as foreigner.... but probably just the fact that she was born in another country could be considered sufficient to count as a flag to the extent such a flag is needed to fill spots on your belt.

(09-16-2014 05:01 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(09-16-2014 03:14 PM)Mentavious Wrote:  If a girl was born in x country and lived there for y years? How many years does y have to be for it to count as an international flag?

I had to LOL when I saw this post because NOT only does it seem like a trick question, and I am having a difficult time coming up with an answer besides - just use your best judgement concerning the extent to which you think z girl or her family has failed to assimilate to the new country.... and if she is an illegal immigrant, then that would likely count as foreigner.... but probably just the fact that she was born in another country could be considered sufficient to count as a flag to the extent such a flag is needed to fill spots on your belt.

Born in Venezuela and lived 7 years there before moving to the US.

About to get that flag via Tinder

^^ technically, yes you're capturing the flag. but only 7 yrs. I personally feel like that not long enough to really engrave that culture into someone. to where you can really/feel it from her, besides the physical.

but who cares, a flag is a flag

Tinder has gotten a lot more frustrating to navigate (compared to my experiences last year), but still has the potential to provide solid easy lays with the correct gaming process.

Last year everyone wanted to meet up with me whenever I asked, and now I have to be like 'don't worry, I'm not going to try anything sexual' to get them to agree. Of course, they all want sex so whether it's a ONS or a couple more dates down the line it is still rather easy. That being said, the quality is diminishing, it is apparent that every single guy who wants sex has a tinder and right swipes every single girl out there, and that the need for creativity while messaging is stronger than ever to elicit some initial spark or connection. I usually try to play nice and it tends to work.

Also, the last girl who said she 'didn't do hookups' in her profile wanted to fuck after an hour, so that's just usually a form of tinder LMR.

My general conclusion is that tinder is great for fucking girls who are a little bit less attractive than you are (and unfortunately boosting their personal egos in the process), but that the top-quality talent is hard to negotiate. Of course, it's also wonderful for someone who travels all over the place for work.

(09-17-2014 02:17 PM)elcidcampeador Wrote:  Tinder has gotten a lot more frustrating to navigate (compared to my experiences last year), but still has the potential to provide solid easy lays with the correct gaming process.

Last year everyone wanted to meet up with me whenever I asked, and now I have to be like 'don't worry, I'm not going to try anything sexual' to get them to agree. Of course, they all want sex so whether it's a ONS or a couple more dates down the line it is still rather easy. That being said, the quality is diminishing, it is apparent that every single guy who wants sex has a tinder and right swipes every single girl out there, and that the need for creativity while messaging is stronger than ever to elicit some initial spark or connection. I usually try to play nice and it tends to work.

Also, the last girl who said she 'didn't do hookups' in her profile wanted to fuck after an hour, so that's just usually a form of tinder LMR.

My general conclusion is that tinder is great for fucking girls who are a little bit less attractive than you are (and unfortunately boosting their personal egos in the process), but that the top-quality talent is hard to negotiate. Of course, it's also wonderful for someone who travels all over the place for work.

I agree. Most of my matches that i am able to get to meet me are at best 6.5s. I do get matched with some hotties from time to time, but i can see from their activity on the moments thing that they are only attenttion whoring. Some dancer chick is actually just posting pics of her pole dancing and shit. Didn't even reply to my standard opener.

^^ both of these statements are spot on.

I've gotten to the point where I give a certain window of time before I just unmatch them. they are time wasters and just want the love.

I ask a chick if she was tired of the app yet. she responded with "I just started a few days ago and it's fun/hilarious" .... a non stop ego stroke.

A high percentage of hot girls on Tinder are basically attention whoring. Clues: they have their Instagram handle in their bio, they post countless "moments" that all their wimpy matches "like" religiously. It seems that there's been a lot of debate in this thread about the value of your looks on Tinder. I'll say this: unless you're very good looking, the girls who are 8+ are probably not worth the effort 80% of the time.

The greatest ROI probably comes from 6s-7s. I'm quite into music, so I make sure that I "like" a load of good artists on Facebook - this enables me to find out which girls I have stuff in common with (easy conversation topics for dates).

Anyone ever been getting along great with a girl and they stop replying as soon as you suggest meeting up? Any advice? This is what bugs me the most about Tinder.

(09-18-2014 06:05 AM)rm43 Wrote:  A high percentage of hot girls on Tinder are basically attention whoring. Clues: they have their Instagram handle in their bio, they post countless "moments" that all their wimpy matches "like" religiously. It seems that there's been a lot of debate in this thread about the value of your looks on Tinder. I'll say this: unless you're very good looking, the girls who are 8+ are probably not worth the effort 80% of the time.

When a girl puts her instagram on she is helping you to screen her.
When she posts moments she is giving you an opportunity to reopen. Since it is so so easy to like someones moments it doesnt' make you wimpy to like it.
Looks on tinder are not as important as guys make it out Put something fucking amazing in your bio. Enough girls read them for it to matter.

(09-18-2014 06:05 AM)rm43 Wrote:  The greatest ROI probably comes from 6s-7s. I'm quite into music, so I make sure that I "like" a load of good artists on Facebook - this enables me to find out which girls I have stuff in common with (easy conversation topics for dates).

Personally I think it is not helpful to talk about musical preferences unless you have the exact same favorite band (which usually means a guaranteed bang.

(09-18-2014 06:05 AM)rm43 Wrote:  Anyone ever been getting along great with a girl and they stop replying as soon as you suggest meeting up? Any advice? This is what bugs me the most about Tinder.

Yes, it happens. You usually can't know exactly why. You have 3 options: 1) move on, 2) reopen, 3) reevaluate your value proposition and texting game. You can also ask her what went wrong. sometimes they will tell you

My latest adventures, girls love facesitting, I love when they love it.

Kept on at the first girl 'cause she was 1 mile away and hot, not made plans yet, working on it. Guess I'm sharing cause it shows getting blanked isn't always the end.

Meeting second girl on monday at a bar near her house

My first time in a large city US (DC) using this app

In freaking believable. You can't swipe your way to the end even if you did a 3 year age range within 5 miles. You guys are some lucky mother lovers

On that note I've got a tall girl from New Zealand coming straight to my apt here.

Tourist bang hopefully

I've noticed qualities gone down on Tinder.

I don't like the moments thing either. I think guys keep re-opening girls who never responded to them because of it, crowds out our messages more.

(09-18-2014 10:26 PM)Mentavious Wrote:  In freaking believable. You can't swipe your way to the end even if you did a 3 year age range within 5 miles. You guys are some lucky mother lovers

Really? I've swiped to the end in a similar age range in my big city in Australia, but for a much larger radius. Perhaps Tinder is bigger in America, I know Okcupid is.

(09-18-2014 11:32 AM)bigbait Wrote:  Personally I think it is not helpful to talk about musical preferences unless you have the exact same favorite band (which usually means a guaranteed bang.

Both those statements are false.

My last description before I deleted it was "Fuck Tinder" It got more responses and comments than anything I used before. I also used "Brunettes and Bourbon" which got good results, and the occasional blonde saying "what about me??"

One thing I love about tinder is the glorious finality of unmatching a girl. Blocking a girl on okcupid just isn't the same.