Post: #76

(12-30-2012 12:33 PM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  Girls getting kidnapped and beaten all the time.......Will be chained to a radiator after the last costumer leaves.

It's a truly horrible form of prostitution. Just imagine having a 15 year daughter being forced to have sex with old arabs.

That's not prostitution. That's kidnapping and rape.

(12-30-2012 02:28 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

What happens at these Nevada brothels in prostitution.

My dad took me to the "bunny ranch" on my 21st birthday!

Post: #77

Neil, I notice you mentioned that one of the fears is that the hooker will laugh at you. Who gives a fcuk about what she finds cool? You can wear a Donald Duck suit.

The thing about banging hookers is that it's cash dependent. If your skill is dependent on your cash, what if it runs out? Or what if you someone has more cash than you (which they always will be someone for 99.999 percent of us)?
Then you will have nothing else to leverage one.

With game, you can implement it in different circumstances. Because without game, even if you wooed her with cash, you will lose her via lack of game.

Post: #78

Game is more satisfying, because sex is only a part of the equation, and when you isolate it and reduce it to the level of a straightforward business transaction, much of the emotional mystique is gone, and it simply becomes an ultra-realistic masturbation session. You didn't win the girl and show your masculine quality, cleverness, or ability, you just bought her body for a short time, much as one would choose a candy bar in a general store. She is allowing you to put your penis inside her for purely economic motives, not because of any attraction. The whole interaction would be one of equals, at best, or matriarchy, because the man has not truly won the girl, she is not his. If he violates the terms of the contract, she is theoretically free to refuse him sex -it's the reduction of male-female interactions to truly beta methodology, where money attempts to procure where manliness fails.

That's not to say men aren't horny and even the most self-respecting wouldn't be tempted to drop $35 (pocket change) to have sex with a 9... I'm sure it would happen from time to time, but shoring would be far more satisfying.

Post: #79

For 35 bucks, I would use hookers for sex. (assuming they are hot -- 8+, younger, clean)

But, that's not game.

I would still need to game regular chicks in order to feel like a wild animal in the jungle. Which is how I like to feel. I don't like to be too domesticated. If I'm not gaming I don't feel natural, I feel like a caged animal.

I think, there is a time for sex and a time for game, they can be the same but they can also be different things with different experiences.

I have sex for biological reasons. I game for psychological reasons. I need both.

Post: #80

(12-30-2012 03:05 PM)Moma Wrote:  Neil, I notice you mentioned that one of the fears is that the hooker will laugh at you. Who gives a fcuk about what she finds cool? You can wear a Donald Duck suit.

The thing about banging hookers is that it's cash dependent. If your skill is dependent on your cash, what if it runs out? Or what if you someone has more cash than you (which they always will be someone for 99.999 percent of us)?
Then you will have nothing else to leverage one.

With game, you can implement it in different circumstances. Because without game, even if you wooed her with cash, you will lose her via lack of game.

I actually don't want to bring it up again and I want to mention that I won't use hookers unless being mighty desperate which I don't expect in the near future especially now that I can leverage my book and micro-fame to get laid. Dating an 21 year old now.

To answer your question. Yes, I would be very embarrassed if I had to keep my underwear on while having sex. And especially if I had to explain that is for being scared of std's. Doesn't really matter if the girls is a pro or not. To me that spells out weird with a capital W and it would embarrass me.

No offense but I can't see the relevance of the second part of your post to my earlier post. Maybe it's not meant for me.

Post: #81

I really wish that Soup didn't use the 35 $ price tag and just left it open. Now posters are talking about hooking up with 8's and 9's for that money which is nearly impossible even in 3rd countries.

It still baffles me that most posters in this thread are still agreeing to do this if the price were right. It's still a business transaction with a girl that despises you and can't wait to see you leave (don't let the fake smile fool you) and anti-game no matter how much you try to rationalize it.

Post: #82

(12-30-2012 05:21 PM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  It still baffles me that most posters in this thread are still agreeing to do this if the price were right. It's still a business transaction with a girl that despises you and can't wait to see you leave (don't let the fake smile fool you) and anti-game no matter how much you try to rationalize it.

I'm closer to sharing your view than that of the "who cares what the prostitute thinks anyway, she's just a whore and the only important consideration is getting off" school of thought.

However.

It's incorrect that all prostitutes have aversion towards their clients. Some are quite choosy, and only go with Johns they are at least somewhat attracted to. The hotter hookers in Thailand for instance, and I'm told the girls in some Chinese Karaoke joints are choosy like that. The Geisha tradition is similar. Ya, you pay for sex, but the girl won't always say yes to the transaction.

I agree with the notion that paying for it lessens the chance of mutual passion, but to be realistic that's what it does - it lessens the chance. Some whores get off and enjoy their jobs and their customers, and can even get romantically attached.

I just don't like the odds. And also am wary of damaged goods. It's not black and white, but neither is it a favorable shade of grey.

And am I the only person who notices the strange juxtaposition of attitudes some people on the forum profess? Attitudes of being proud of not having empathy, and then at the same time not believing that women are capable of romance. Well, ya, if you are incapable of love, why would you expect others to love you? Romance requires a sympathetic resonance of romance - you have to be mutually into each other for it to work. The pride that some people display for dark triad traits, especially the narcissism and sociopathy - where is that coming from? Is that an innate trait, or a reaction to circumstance? Wouldn't that be something people would want to move past? Doesn't sound like a fun way to live. Is it?

Post: #83

I think the original question that was posed has gotten reframed. This isn't a prostitution-promotion thread. The original question was a hypothetical, and I think from the variety of responses, it was a legitimate question. If you made hookers really cheap, how dedicated would you be to still game as hard as possible? I stated in an earlier post that $35 wouldn't get you top-notch women, because a top-notch escort type wouldn't work for that. It would only leave streetwalkers. The question that's being posed is...how hard would you continue to work for something if you could simply buy it inexpensively? If you don't like the question in the context of game vs. prostitution, you can simply reframe it in a different context, but the question still holds. It's essentially a question of human nature. It's similar to the question posed regarding fatties - under what circumstances would you do one? Just like some men have openly admitted that they've paid for pussy and would again, are you similarly disappointed at guys that have admitted to fucking a fattie and would again in dire circumstances?

Post: #84

(12-30-2012 06:05 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  I think the original question that was posed has gotten reframed. This isn't a prostitution-promotion thread. The original question was a hypothetical, and I think from the variety of responses, it was a legitimate question. If you made hookers really cheap, how dedicated would you be to still game as hard as possible? I stated in an earlier post that $35 wouldn't get you top-notch women, because a top-notch escort type wouldn't work for that. It would only leave streetwalkers. The question that's being posed is...how hard would you continue to work for something if you could simply buy it inexpensively? If you don't like the question in the context of game vs. prostitution, you can simply reframe it in a different context, but the question still holds. It's essentially a question of human nature. It's similar to the question posed regarding fatties - under what circumstances would you do one? Just like some men have openly admitted that they've paid for pussy and would again, are you similarly disappointed at guys that have admitted to fucking a fattie and would again in dire circumstances?

Yeah.

I am of the belief that these "prostitution" threads do little of value here.

Even the hypotheticals.

Post: #85

Here's another question:

If you use counterfeit money to pay a prostitute, then technically no money has been exchanged. Is that game? I'd say that's as valid as making up a story or lying to a girl about your relationship status to get in to her pussy. You've gained her confidence.

I define game as anything short of rape/coercion that will enable you to have sex with women.

---

Take it even further- if you have to spend money to get hold of or make fake money, and then "pay" a prostitute with counterfeit money, is that still considered prostitution as far as our intents and purposes on this forum go?

Post: #86

(12-30-2012 05:41 PM)xsplat Wrote:  

(12-30-2012 05:21 PM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  It still baffles me that most posters in this thread are still agreeing to do this if the price were right. It's still a business transaction with a girl that despises you and can't wait to see you leave (don't let the fake smile fool you) and anti-game no matter how much you try to rationalize it.

I'm closer to sharing your view than that of the "who cares what the prostitute thinks anyway, she's just a whore and the only important consideration is getting off" school of thought.

However.

It's incorrect that all prostitutes have aversion towards their clients. Some are quite choosy, and only go with Johns they are at least somewhat attracted to. The hotter hookers in Thailand for instance, and I'm told the girls in some Chinese Karaoke joints are choosy like that. The Geisha tradition is similar. Ya, you pay for sex, but the girl won't always say yes to the transaction.

I agree with the notion that paying for it lessens the chance of mutual passion, but to be realistic that's what it does - it lessens the chance. Some whores get off and enjoy their jobs and their customers, and can even get romantically attached.

I just don't like the odds. And also am wary of damaged goods. It's not black and white, but neither is it a favorable shade of grey.

And am I the only person who notices the strange juxtaposition of attitudes some people on the forum profess? Attitudes of being proud of not having empathy, and then at the same time not believing that women are capable of romance. Well, ya, if you are incapable of love, why would you expect others to love you? Romance requires a sympathetic resonance of romance - you have to be mutually into each other for it to work. The pride that some people display for dark triad traits, especially the narcissism and sociopathy - where is that coming from? Is that an innate trait, or a reaction to circumstance? Wouldn't that be something people would want to move past? Doesn't sound like a fun way to live. Is it?

I agree that not all hookers will take just anyone with money but usually the older they get the less choosy they can be.

And you are not the only one noticing the juxtaposition (i had to look this word up) of women hating attitudes of some of the posters. In some threads it's almost a contest who can be the toughest, most ruthless cunt towards women. It's almost as if the guy who slaps them around, throws them out in the street naked, destroys their stuff/clothing or whatever is a hero here. Lets not forget the ones who can only refer to girls as whores,cunts or bitches.
It's no wonder they have problem with girls. These are the type of guys who say stuff like "she was a dirty, skanky cunt anyway" when they get rejected by a perfectly normal girl. Girls can smell this type of guy from a mile away and will swiftly reject hem and in fact making the guy an even bigger, more hateful asshole in the process.

Some of them must be really butt hurt over former experiences with women and having this attitude is not helping you at all.
I'm not saying we should all be betas or white knights but sometimes I feel a line is being crossed between criticism of the dating market and straight up women hate.

Post: #87

(12-30-2012 06:43 PM)soup Wrote:  Here's another question:

If you use counterfeit money to pay a prostitute, then technically no money has been exchanged. Is that game? I'd say that's as valid as making up a story or lying to a girl about your relationship status to get in to her pussy. You've gained her confidence.

I define game as anything short of rape/coercion that will enable you to have sex with women.

Post: #88

Neil, calling girls bitches, hoes, etc is part of the culture for young people. Youre reading into it to much. Dont take it literally.

Post: #89

Neil, I hate the bullshit tests that women make us go through.

Girl was over at my house today, I could feel the intense heat emanating from her pussy through her pants, and she still wouldn't fuck me. What's up that?

Post: #90

(12-30-2012 06:52 PM)houston Wrote:  Neil, calling girls bitches, hoes, etc is part of the culture for young people. Youre reading into it to much. Dont take it literally.

Yeah maybe you're right but even then it's bad on a subconscious level. It still plants thought in your head that women are inferior.

Post: #91

(12-30-2012 06:53 PM)soup Wrote:  Neil, I hate the bullshit tests that women make us go through.

Girl was over at my house today, I could feel the intense heat emanating from her pussy through her pants, and she still wouldn't fuck me. What's up that?

Yes, this will happen from time to time. You can't win em all. Either use different techniques to get into her pants and hope they work or bite your lip and wait till next time.

It happened to me also. I had a couple of times that the girl was near naked or even naked in bed and wouldn't do anything but kissing. Some girls will just not give it up on the first night.

Shit happens.

Anyway it's bedtime here.

Post: #92

(12-30-2012 05:17 PM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  No offense but I can't see the relevance of the second part of your post to my earlier post. Maybe it's not meant for me.

Yes sorry, the second part wasn't meant for you, I was too lazy to make a second post.

Post: #93

(12-30-2012 06:50 PM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  I agree that not all hookers will take just anyone with money but usually the older they get the less choosy they can be.

And you are not the only one noticing the juxtaposition (i had to look this word up) of women hating attitudes of some of the posters. In some threads it's almost a contest who can be the toughest, most ruthless cunt towards women. It's almost as if the guy who slaps them around, throws them out in the street naked, destroys their stuff/clothing or whatever is a hero here. Lets not forget the ones who can only refer to girls as whores,cunts or bitches.
It's no wonder they have problem with girls. These are the type of guys who say stuff like "she was a dirty, skanky cunt anyway" when they get rejected by a perfectly normal girl. Girls can smell this type of guy from a mile away and will swiftly reject hem and in fact making the guy an even bigger, more hateful asshole in the process.

Some of them must be really butt hurt over former experiences with women and having this attitude is not helping you at all.
I'm not saying we should all be betas or white knights but sometimes I feel a line is being crossed between criticism of the dating market and straight up women hate.

Neil, the lizards in America are nasty and mean especially in some of the major cities. You spend some time out here a long time and you will see why some of the guys are forced to do that shyt.

Necessity is the mother of invention, you think Roosh would have been created if he lived in Sweden or even Holland?

How many European PUAs do you know?

The point made is, that I've been here some while and I truly see why some guys adopt this manner. The lizards here can be nasty and rude as a rule. I went out some nights and I told you I saw them fighting with men with their arses out. Never seen this in my life before.

So I can see where some of the guys are coming from. Do all deserve the tag? No, of course not, but you go to the hood like a gentleman and see how quickly the rats will jump you for your backpack...

Post: #94

Neil has a good point hookers, like strippers, despise their clients who are fat, old, retarded or special needs, but probably don't mind in shape guys of any age who use them for whatever reason. Sure, some can be exclusive but that doesn't last forever as younger, hotter, cheaper whores get into the business.

Remember, many of these girls are drug addicts with diseases and a pimp or scumbag boyfriend. With the internet the truly low grade ones don't even have to walk the street anymore. If you deal with hookers they are selling a fantasy predicated on you thinking with the little head. There's also the criminal element to consider. You can easily get beaten, robbed or even blackmailed if you're not thinking straight. Try giving the wrong whore some counterfeit money and see if you don't get yourself killed.

Hookers also are all armed one way or another. They are vulnerable to being beaten, robbed, raped or arrested on the job and put themselves in a lot of sketchy situations as you would expect when existing in the criminal/drug addict underworld. They also regularly get shaken down by dirty cops who want a free bang.

There are websites and forums all over the internet dedicated to discussing the whore trade. If you really want to see some eye opening stories check out eccieleaks.com, your city may be listed there. They discuss everything including shakedowns, scams, ripoffs and tons of crazy shit.

Even if you can afford the most expensive and exclusive whores you are entering into the criminal underworld where anything can happen, especially if you're not careful. Legal prostitution in the US would probably be good for players because all the schlubs would get out of the way.

Post: #95

Post: #96

(12-30-2012 07:00 PM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

(12-30-2012 06:52 PM)houston Wrote:  Neil, calling girls bitches, hoes, etc is part of the culture for young people. Youre reading into it to much. Dont take it literally.

Yeah maybe you're right but even then it's bad on a subconscious level. It still plants thought in your head that women are inferior.

Houston, I believe it or not I agree with Neil on this one.

When I was younger, I would refer to girls with negative words.

I stopped that at 25-26. It is good for your well being. I am not going to tell you how to act, but it is a good move to get rid of it out of your vocab. Positivity is the key.

If you notice, I never do it on these forums or in reality.

Now I save the "b word" for only guys.

Unfortunately, I end up using it all the time to refer to guys these days.

Post: #97

This discussion illustrates the danger of making the chase for pussy too much of a focal point in one's life.

A common complaint amongst those who are against the idea of exchanging money for sex is that it isn't as manly as picking up chicks the regular way. They're right. But then you could make exactly the same argument about the food you eat. Hunting and growing your own food is way more manly than buying it at the grocery store. Going out to the restaurant isn't as satisfying as learning how to cook. Nobody bats an eye at this though, because nobody is silly enough to ascribe such an important part of their pride or personal value system to their capacity to feed themselves.

"But it's too easy to give a chick $100 to fuck her. Any chump can do that!"

And here we arrive to the crux of the problem; that is that pussy is a relatively cheap commodity. This has important mental ramifications for the experienced PUA who's dedicated his life to banging attractive women. If the drive to self-actualize is an important part of the equation, how can the PUA feel good about himself if the object of his desire is cheaply available to virtually anyone? Not unlike dedicating your life to collecting the rocks in your parking lot, it ultimately feels like an unworthy pursuit.

The hard way to fix this problem is to step back, re-evaluate, and consider making a pursuit more befitting of a man's real potential the focal point of one's life. The easy way is to just re-invent the rules of the current game. Regular success is no longer enough; now it only has any value if you do things a certain way. If game mastery became commonplace, I guarantee you that some more elite RVF-type forum would be created, where pick-ups would only be worth anything if they were done following some other arbitrary set of rules (hand-stand pig-latin game anyone?). This new community would view regular RVF members the same way some of you view guys who fuck escorts. "Pff, instant gratification seekers and game-less chumps, not man enough to pick up chicks the REAL way."

This by the way isn't unique to PUAs. It happens in virtually all spheres of human activity where egos are heavily invested in their chosen pursuit. For example, once upon a time, reaching the summit of Mount Everest was seen as a great achievement. Nowadays, just reaching the summit of Mount Everest or some other 8000+ meter peak ain't shit as far as any halfway serious mountaineer is concerned. In order for your achievement to have any value whatsoever, you need to do it without supplementary oxygen, or without the aid of sherpas, or in the middle of winter, or via some new route, or completely solo, or a combination of these.

The danger here of course, is that in their effort to up the ante, purists can lose track of what it is that made their activity of choice an enjoyable pursuit in the first place.

I'm sure this post will attract the usual detractors, but it is what it is.

Disclaimer: I do game chicks, only have very limited experience dabbling with escorts, blah blah. Save your ad hominems. Thanks.

Post: #98

A lot of guys are saying, "If it was only $35 bucks for sex, why do game?"

But you're missing the point. If it was only $35 bucks for sex, imagine how easy it would be to bang civilian girls! She knows that if she doesn't put out for you right away you can just go get some cheap sex from somewhere else. The price of sex would be so low that civilian girls would have no choice but to put out.

Post: #99

(12-30-2012 07:00 PM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

(12-30-2012 06:52 PM)houston Wrote:  Neil, calling girls bitches, hoes, etc is part of the culture for young people. Youre reading into it to much. Dont take it literally.

Yeah maybe you're right but even then it's bad on a subconscious level. It still plants thought in your head that women are inferior.

I don't use foul language much out of principle.

But, women are inferior.

Post: #100

(12-30-2012 09:40 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(12-30-2012 07:00 PM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

(12-30-2012 06:52 PM)houston Wrote:  Neil, calling girls bitches, hoes, etc is part of the culture for young people. Youre reading into it to much. Dont take it literally.

Yeah maybe you're right but even then it's bad on a subconscious level. It still plants thought in your head that women are inferior.

I don't use foul language much out of principle.

But, women are inferior.

by male measurements

it would be absolutely stupid for them to be any other way. all of our intelligence is there because it's necessary for reproduction.